Intuitive Interfaces
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This one always gets me: User Inyerface - A worst-practice UI experiment[^] :laugh:
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That is truly obnoxious. It took me 11:49 to get to the dancing Carlton. I'd hazard a guess that the author of that horror copied about 80% of the instances of idiocy found on that interface from sites they had encountered at one time or another. I know that I've run across several of them. My pet Peeve is password requirements that don't specify a maximum length. I also hate "you must use a special character" ... Oh, sorry, "&" is invalid.
I eventually gave up at the captcha. Positioning of the tickboxes is genius. But a little close to the mark - I hate the common one that asks me to "Select all schoolbuses". How the *%#$ am I supposed to know which are schoolbuses? Here in the UK they come in any size, shape and colour... and some are trains!
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Funny stuff. BTW one of UI topics some of my team researched with objective testing was the YES/NO, ON/OFF, etc (binary states). User confusion of what is the current state versus changing the state is increased. One button, versions and two buttons versions. The human subject testing was quite thorough and comprehensive. There were multiple phases of this testing. In aerospace a mistaken judgement of the system state could be fatal. BTW Apple users a sliding binary button which is quite effective. Their UI is generally pretty good but not always obvious.
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day" Badfinger
I detest those sliding binary buttons. Especially when used for cookie options. Totally arbitrary selection of colour / position, worsened (possibly? I can't tell) because I'm colour blind. :mad:
Telegraph marker posts ... nothing to do with IT Phasmid email discussion group ... also nothing to do with IT Beekeeping and honey site ... still nothing to do with IT
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I eventually gave up at the captcha. Positioning of the tickboxes is genius. But a little close to the mark - I hate the common one that asks me to "Select all schoolbuses". How the *%#$ am I supposed to know which are schoolbuses? Here in the UK they come in any size, shape and colour... and some are trains!
Telegraph marker posts ... nothing to do with IT Phasmid email discussion group ... also nothing to do with IT Beekeeping and honey site ... still nothing to do with IT
In this particular case, I think you're supposed to check them all. And as you said, the tickboxes are positioned in a way that the upper row isn't visible and you have to scroll for it :laugh: Real-life captcha's like these are a pain. Like, select all traffic lights, but one of them just goes slightly into a new box, so does it have a traffic light or not? :~
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That is truly obnoxious. It took me 11:49 to get to the dancing Carlton. I'd hazard a guess that the author of that horror copied about 80% of the instances of idiocy found on that interface from sites they had encountered at one time or another. I know that I've run across several of them. My pet Peeve is password requirements that don't specify a maximum length. I also hate "you must use a special character" ... Oh, sorry, "&" is invalid.
FreedMalloc wrote:
My pet Peeve is password requirements that don't specify a maximum length.
I've been in a situation where corporate wanted me to reset my password, but didn't tell me the requirements. IT told me at least 8 characters, I had 16 I think. Other than that I had upper, lower, number and symbol, but it still wasn't valid. Ultimately, IT let me enter my password directly into the AD to circumvent all requirements :~
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
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I am sitting here trying to do some work while alongside me my wife is attempting to set up a Zoom discussion with a friend. Neither of them know what they are doing, so it has been interesting hearing their learning curve. At least it was at the start, now I will have to go and chop some firewood before my blood pressure goes off the scale. I know that I find that interface fairly transparent, but maybe they need a "just heard about computers" interface as an option?
I tend to find that when people expect something to be complicated and hard to understand going in, it will be for them, and I think this is one of the biggest barriers to computer literacy - expectations.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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I am sitting here trying to do some work while alongside me my wife is attempting to set up a Zoom discussion with a friend. Neither of them know what they are doing, so it has been interesting hearing their learning curve. At least it was at the start, now I will have to go and chop some firewood before my blood pressure goes off the scale. I know that I find that interface fairly transparent, but maybe they need a "just heard about computers" interface as an option?
My wife has been using her own Windows computer daily for over 10 years. For the last 5 years that is a Dell laptop running Windows 10. She surfs the web, reads newspapers online, uses Facebook. She receives and sends email. She takes photos on her phone and also on a compact camera and likes to get the images out onto a USB stick to take to the local photo-printing place. Yet, after 10 years, she still cannot use any of these and has to ask me help EVERY TIME: - Ctrl-click to add/subtract to/from selection - Shift-click to select a range. - Cut/Copy/Paste to get files from Downloads to memory stick - Cut/Copy/Paste to work with text in an email or Word document - Use ability of File Explorer to sort files by extension, name, date etc to help find desired files. - Use ability of File Explorer to search for desired files by name - Navigate an Open File or Save File picker to any folder.
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You overlook the stupidity of management. Before I retired, I tried to design based on real user input. Often, when I demo'ed the result to management, they just had to change it, making it needlessly complex and cumbersome to use. Instead of putting the most common two or three items at the top of a list followed by the remainder of the choices in alphabetic order, they required full alphabetical order.
For example, let us look at selecting client language. In the United States, English and Spanish are the most common languages; they would require Africaans and Arabic at the top of the list and Spanish way down below Farsi, German, Korean, Portuguese, Russian and a host of others.
__________________ Lord, grant me the serenity to accept that there are some things I just can’t keep up with, the determination to keep up with the things I must keep up with, and the wisdom to find a good RSS feed from someone who keeps up with what I’d like to, but just don’t have the damn bandwidth to handle right now. © 2009, Rex Hammock
It's "Afrikaans", not "Africaans". I suspect the management of whom you are so contemptuous would have known that.
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I am sitting here trying to do some work while alongside me my wife is attempting to set up a Zoom discussion with a friend. Neither of them know what they are doing, so it has been interesting hearing their learning curve. At least it was at the start, now I will have to go and chop some firewood before my blood pressure goes off the scale. I know that I find that interface fairly transparent, but maybe they need a "just heard about computers" interface as an option?
Something that makes my blood boil is menus where items not currently available are removed rather than greyed out - leaving the user confused and bewildered about where that item is buried. Such a dumb UX idea!
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I am sitting here trying to do some work while alongside me my wife is attempting to set up a Zoom discussion with a friend. Neither of them know what they are doing, so it has been interesting hearing their learning curve. At least it was at the start, now I will have to go and chop some firewood before my blood pressure goes off the scale. I know that I find that interface fairly transparent, but maybe they need a "just heard about computers" interface as an option?
2 second comparison of meet.google.com and zoom.us both - have to create accounts to use meet - minimal starting page - medium plus size window the new meeting is on left, would be prefer center, focused - click new meeting opens another dialog :doh: , would prefer show 3 opens just as without select menu. hidden options not always the best - create for later, unclear what I would do with link. Simple prompt for share with or copy and save somewhere on computer. - don't need account if just joining, same as zoom. zoom - accept cookies message. double checked meet (private and cache clear) and no cookie warning, props to google. - require login (same on google, but when already signed in it wasnt obvious) - oh, wait, no there is a Join in top menu. I assumed the MASSIVE join for free was prompt to create meeting:confused: - one landing page. lots of clutter compared to meet. - also the left side of create login X| - also when get links from others the amount of use the desktop app makes it confusing and another hurdle on pain. both could be improved. but imma suggest use meet.google.com unless you got the googleitest alergy
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Isn't that an excellent example of a developer centered design? If you sit e.g. in Norway, as I do, or in some East European, Asian or African country, English or Spanish is not the primary language alternatives! You may say "But the US is our primary market! (Besides, that is where I am living ...)", fair enough if you simply do not care about other markets. Why then worry about all these other languages at all, if you do not care about the users of those languages? In Windows - but also in *nix - the environment always informs you about the locale and the preferred language. If you really cared for the user, you would honor that. If you want to do the job well, you would use the locale to select not only the top entry, but a few more down the list, such as French and English as the two top entries in Canada (if the user's preferred language is a third one, it obviously goes ahead of both). If the user at some time has selected yet another alternative, he is probably making use use of that language, so put any explicitly selected language up on top as well. Then you can list the rest of the languages - those with no indication of being relevant to the user - in alphabetical order. Those that goes on top are those that are more likely to be chosen by the user. And not those preferred by the developer! This obviously goes for all locale related UI aspects, not just the language, but e.g. date and numeric formats and lots of other things. If you use system provided functions for the formatting, you may evade the issue, until the user is given a chance to select some other format, some other value. Say, a valuta calculator: A user in Norway who sees USD on top of the list every time, even after having selected NOK a hundred times before, gradually gets sort of p***ed. If you don't care to do a proper job, then you might as well do as your boss says: Do not give any preference to any choice. Giving preference to your choice, rather than that of the user, does not improve the quality of the user interface.
One thing drives be nuts is that on a list of countries in alphabetic order you press U and it comes up with the first 'U' country at the bottom. Logically it should be at, or near, the top so I can find UK (in my case) with a single click. Are there any positive reasons for this behaviour?
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FreedMalloc wrote:
My pet Peeve is password requirements that don't specify a maximum length.
I've been in a situation where corporate wanted me to reset my password, but didn't tell me the requirements. IT told me at least 8 characters, I had 16 I think. Other than that I had upper, lower, number and symbol, but it still wasn't valid. Ultimately, IT let me enter my password directly into the AD to circumvent all requirements :~
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An insidious trick is to accept a long password when registering or resetting but silently truncate it to the maximum length. The next time you log in it fails because the hashes between what you set and they ultimately accepted don't match. Then your account is locked as you repeatedly try to log in by shortening the password a character at time. At which point I call support with 3 requests: 1) please reset my password; 2) please tell me the max password length; 3) please locate the developer and break their kneecaps.
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In this particular case, I think you're supposed to check them all. And as you said, the tickboxes are positioned in a way that the upper row isn't visible and you have to scroll for it :laugh: Real-life captcha's like these are a pain. Like, select all traffic lights, but one of them just goes slightly into a new box, so does it have a traffic light or not? :~
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Sander Rossel wrote:
Like, select all traffic lights, but one of them just goes slightly into a new box, so does it have a traffic light or not?
That’s the thing that always gets me. Drives me crazy! Something I learned long ago is that captcha uses the data from the user’s selection to be the answer for the next users. Did you know that? That means if the majority of people select a particular part of the image then it is considered part of the answer. Users are selecting and training the algorithm. Seems kind of nuts. I also found that captcha wants 3 picks. So if you have 3 chosen and there is a sliver of traffic light in a 4th then it should not be selected. Isn’t that crazy?
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Isn't that an excellent example of a developer centered design? If you sit e.g. in Norway, as I do, or in some East European, Asian or African country, English or Spanish is not the primary language alternatives! You may say "But the US is our primary market! (Besides, that is where I am living ...)", fair enough if you simply do not care about other markets. Why then worry about all these other languages at all, if you do not care about the users of those languages? In Windows - but also in *nix - the environment always informs you about the locale and the preferred language. If you really cared for the user, you would honor that. If you want to do the job well, you would use the locale to select not only the top entry, but a few more down the list, such as French and English as the two top entries in Canada (if the user's preferred language is a third one, it obviously goes ahead of both). If the user at some time has selected yet another alternative, he is probably making use use of that language, so put any explicitly selected language up on top as well. Then you can list the rest of the languages - those with no indication of being relevant to the user - in alphabetical order. Those that goes on top are those that are more likely to be chosen by the user. And not those preferred by the developer! This obviously goes for all locale related UI aspects, not just the language, but e.g. date and numeric formats and lots of other things. If you use system provided functions for the formatting, you may evade the issue, until the user is given a chance to select some other format, some other value. Say, a valuta calculator: A user in Norway who sees USD on top of the list every time, even after having selected NOK a hundred times before, gradually gets sort of p***ed. If you don't care to do a proper job, then you might as well do as your boss says: Do not give any preference to any choice. Giving preference to your choice, rather than that of the user, does not improve the quality of the user interface.
The software in question was for in-house use by company personnel providing services to clients. It was not used by the clients due to HIPPA regulations. The language choice did not change the interface. It only provided input for selection clinical providers and outside translation services to serve the client. There were members of the clinical staff who spoke English, Spanish, American Sign, Korean and German. The one Arabic speaker retired. One young immigrant from India spoke several Indian languages, including Pashtun, but was not certified yet certified to use those language skills to serve clients.
__________________ Lord, grant me the serenity to accept that there are some things I just can’t keep up with, the determination to keep up with the things I must keep up with, and the wisdom to find a good RSS feed from someone who keeps up with what I’d like to, but just don’t have the damn bandwidth to handle right now. © 2009, Rex Hammock
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I am sitting here trying to do some work while alongside me my wife is attempting to set up a Zoom discussion with a friend. Neither of them know what they are doing, so it has been interesting hearing their learning curve. At least it was at the start, now I will have to go and chop some firewood before my blood pressure goes off the scale. I know that I find that interface fairly transparent, but maybe they need a "just heard about computers" interface as an option?
Heh,I remember being pretty much lost when Windows 8.0 came out. I never figured out about the corners, had to do a web search to find out about them. And the text on screen that might or might not be button. It was such a cluster that I finally made the jump to Linux as my main OS. I just keep a Windows VM around for games, TurboTax and the occasional photo editing session.
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I wouldn't call this management "stupidity". It's trying to make it look as if you add value even though you're far from expert in, or have only put superficial thought into, what you're commenting on. Code reviews are just as useless when "reviewers" harp on variable names or formatting because they have nothing to say about design or merely skimmed the code and missed bugs that could have been spotted with due effort. I would have told them that the UI was carefully considered, that their input would be noted but that they would not be making decisions on the UI, and that the demo's purpose was to show that a milestone had been reached and provide a preview of what would be shipping.
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The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.The software in question was for in-house use only by company staff. The language choice was for matching clients with clinical providers and translation services. After several months of use, the language breakdown of our new and re-evaluated clients was something like:
- English - 80%
- Spanish - 55%
- Korean - 15%
- American Sign - 5%
- All others - 1%
The total is higher than 100% because I allowed multiple language selection. If more than one was selected, I would pop up a box asking for the order of proficiency. The numbers given are approximate - I do not remember the exact figures, as I retired several years ago.
__________________ Lord, grant me the serenity to accept that there are some things I just can’t keep up with, the determination to keep up with the things I must keep up with, and the wisdom to find a good RSS feed from someone who keeps up with what I’d like to, but just don’t have the damn bandwidth to handle right now. © 2009, Rex Hammock
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That is truly obnoxious. It took me 11:49 to get to the dancing Carlton. I'd hazard a guess that the author of that horror copied about 80% of the instances of idiocy found on that interface from sites they had encountered at one time or another. I know that I've run across several of them. My pet Peeve is password requirements that don't specify a maximum length. I also hate "you must use a special character" ... Oh, sorry, "&" is invalid.
Yes, sites that are picky about which special characters are acceptable is one of my pet peeves - and there is no excuse for this if the code behind the text box is properly written!
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I am sitting here trying to do some work while alongside me my wife is attempting to set up a Zoom discussion with a friend. Neither of them know what they are doing, so it has been interesting hearing their learning curve. At least it was at the start, now I will have to go and chop some firewood before my blood pressure goes off the scale. I know that I find that interface fairly transparent, but maybe they need a "just heard about computers" interface as an option?
Inductive user interface. That is what is needed for people, who do not compute. And if software is meant to be used actively, an active tutorial is needed to show and train controls. Like in video games. But then there are hard cases, where I think only voice driven AI interface would help (like in start trek). Icons and commands just don't mesh well with some people.
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I am sitting here trying to do some work while alongside me my wife is attempting to set up a Zoom discussion with a friend. Neither of them know what they are doing, so it has been interesting hearing their learning curve. At least it was at the start, now I will have to go and chop some firewood before my blood pressure goes off the scale. I know that I find that interface fairly transparent, but maybe they need a "just heard about computers" interface as an option?
My younger sister used to say : "They don't have a mother? Give it to her, if she can use it, then good, otherwise work on it a bit more."
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That is truly obnoxious. It took me 11:49 to get to the dancing Carlton. I'd hazard a guess that the author of that horror copied about 80% of the instances of idiocy found on that interface from sites they had encountered at one time or another. I know that I've run across several of them. My pet Peeve is password requirements that don't specify a maximum length. I also hate "you must use a special character" ... Oh, sorry, "&" is invalid.
You beat me - 12:06 to get the dancing carlton... Truly awful...
Sincerely, -Mark mamiller@mhemail.org
