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  3. Reading To Learn Tech?

Reading To Learn Tech?

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  • M markchagers

    Related: how, when you try to follow an online tutorial and the first steps go well, and then some weird error suddenly pops up and blocks all progress.

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    raddevus
    wrote on last edited by
    #23

    Yep, that's exactly what I'm talking about. You invest this initial time then you're just stuck. really frustrating & annoying.

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    • J jochance

      Many languages seem to have raced to having the simplest/shortest example of Hello World by tucking away or automating a bunch of the plumbing that makes the sausage. You find tons of example code out there lacking usings, imports, and other bits similar to your example. Some of those only put the man behind a curtain because if you were to reveal him it would suddenly become an overwhelming amount of worm cans and rabbit holes. Still, I can't help but shake my head at it sometimes. I wouldn't want to be a rookie right now. Too many curtains hiding central figures and too many 'black boxes'. Many of them, you would not even know they exist which is sort of the first step to ever even being able to want to go looking for them in order to understand more. Mostly, those curtains/boxes, they are not totally bad things. Productivity is great and those things that tend to be "ok as default" or "*most* always handle themselves"... it's nice not to worry about or even see them. The problem comes when you really want to know every detail, but you can't even be sure you do. Unknowable unknowns.

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      raddevus
      wrote on last edited by
      #24

      That is a great post & exactly the type of thing I'm talking about -- all those things the authors leave out which are actually critical to understanding.

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      • R raddevus

        I'm reading a book right now (Real-World Cryptography - Manning Publisher[^]). In chapter 3 it provided a code example of how to generate a MAC (Message Authentication Code) using Rust. It didn't give the crates (import libraries) that were required. :| (I'm slow, I need everything.) Also, the example was two functions for generating and then reading the MAC but there was no example of the input (I'm slow, I need everything). Which brings me to my point. Do you notice that books get you so far into a subject (about 1 - 3 chapters) and then they get so far out there that you cannot move on further? You're just stuck. The author has left me behind. (I'm slow, I need everything.) So I have a lot of books that I read first 3 chapters & then fall into oblivion. (I'm slow, I need everything.) Well, that is my experience. Does that happen to you?

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        sasadler
        wrote on last edited by
        #25

        Yep, been there. I think during my career (now over!) there's only been 3 books that I really worked through: 1) Z-80 Microcomputer Handbook (published in 1978, when I built my first computer). 2) Starting Forth 3) Understanding Digital Signal Processing All the other tech books I've purchased just provided bits and pieces, basically just filling in specific blanks.

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        • R raddevus

          I'm reading a book right now (Real-World Cryptography - Manning Publisher[^]). In chapter 3 it provided a code example of how to generate a MAC (Message Authentication Code) using Rust. It didn't give the crates (import libraries) that were required. :| (I'm slow, I need everything.) Also, the example was two functions for generating and then reading the MAC but there was no example of the input (I'm slow, I need everything). Which brings me to my point. Do you notice that books get you so far into a subject (about 1 - 3 chapters) and then they get so far out there that you cannot move on further? You're just stuck. The author has left me behind. (I'm slow, I need everything.) So I have a lot of books that I read first 3 chapters & then fall into oblivion. (I'm slow, I need everything.) Well, that is my experience. Does that happen to you?

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          thewazz
          wrote on last edited by
          #26

          Same with a lot of videos.

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          • S sasadler

            Yep, been there. I think during my career (now over!) there's only been 3 books that I really worked through: 1) Z-80 Microcomputer Handbook (published in 1978, when I built my first computer). 2) Starting Forth 3) Understanding Digital Signal Processing All the other tech books I've purchased just provided bits and pieces, basically just filling in specific blanks.

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            raddevus
            wrote on last edited by
            #27

            My knock-down, number-one, all-time stranded-on-a-dessert-island favorite book is... Programming Windows 3.1 [^] by Charles Petzold (only $99 right now at amazon :laugh: ) It was a complete and thorough software development training guide. I wonder if "kids these days" would even read a tome like that?? Now all they want is "what's the javascript that makes this do that?" :laugh:

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            • R raddevus

              My knock-down, number-one, all-time stranded-on-a-dessert-island favorite book is... Programming Windows 3.1 [^] by Charles Petzold (only $99 right now at amazon :laugh: ) It was a complete and thorough software development training guide. I wonder if "kids these days" would even read a tome like that?? Now all they want is "what's the javascript that makes this do that?" :laugh:

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              sasadler
              wrote on last edited by
              #28

              I was deep into embedded programming by the time the Petzold book came out so I only did a little bit of it. It was a good book, but not real relevant to what I was programming for. On the Windows side I mostly did RAD (VB, Delphi, C++ Builder) programs for test equipment.

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              • J jochance

                In a sense, maybe relish it. Be persistent and figure it out. You'll learn things the example wasn't ever going to otherwise teach you. Many folks learned to do this before StackOverflow (or even Google) existed. Different people have the different modes of doing their best learning. I think that it is inherent to the craft that learning to dig is maybe, in essence, learning to do. That said, hiding all the shovels is understandable but disconcerting. OTOH, rooms full of shovels are almost as bad and maybe worse.

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                Cpichols
                wrote on last edited by
                #29

                Perhaps the answer is that when you find too few or too many shovels, find another resource for learning. Use the shovel count as a gauge of the adequacy of the resource - and this number will vary by individual, some want all the shovels up front to study, some will want only the needed few for that point in the process. Personally, I like having all the shovels up front. I want to look at all the examples and all the dependencies all in one heap, and I may skip the explanations and directions in favor of spending more time with the actual code. For that reason, I avoid books on coding and though I enjoy a good tutorial vid - a code-along - I don't learn nearly as well as when I can just see code samples aplenty.

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                • R raddevus

                  I'm reading a book right now (Real-World Cryptography - Manning Publisher[^]). In chapter 3 it provided a code example of how to generate a MAC (Message Authentication Code) using Rust. It didn't give the crates (import libraries) that were required. :| (I'm slow, I need everything.) Also, the example was two functions for generating and then reading the MAC but there was no example of the input (I'm slow, I need everything). Which brings me to my point. Do you notice that books get you so far into a subject (about 1 - 3 chapters) and then they get so far out there that you cannot move on further? You're just stuck. The author has left me behind. (I'm slow, I need everything.) So I have a lot of books that I read first 3 chapters & then fall into oblivion. (I'm slow, I need everything.) Well, that is my experience. Does that happen to you?

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                  stheller2
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #30

                  This is extremely common and is caused by the fact that almost no authors use "test readers". When I thought I was done writing my C++ book intended to be suitable for people with no previous programming background, I found a test reader to read it. I basically had to rewrite the entire book because as an expert, I couldn't understand how much she didn't already know. The result? I got fan mail from readers, for a technical book. Why doesn't anyone else do this? I don't know with certainty but I can guess: it's a LOT of work. Another issue is that you need someone who can tell you in detail what she doesn't understand. This is not a common ability.

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                  • S stheller2

                    This is extremely common and is caused by the fact that almost no authors use "test readers". When I thought I was done writing my C++ book intended to be suitable for people with no previous programming background, I found a test reader to read it. I basically had to rewrite the entire book because as an expert, I couldn't understand how much she didn't already know. The result? I got fan mail from readers, for a technical book. Why doesn't anyone else do this? I don't know with certainty but I can guess: it's a LOT of work. Another issue is that you need someone who can tell you in detail what she doesn't understand. This is not a common ability.

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                    raddevus
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #31

                    Great post! Is your book available on Amazon? Thanks for sharing that great story & I agree with you about it being a lot of work. I think that is why Charles Petzold's books were so long (and so great).

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                    • R raddevus

                      Great post! Is your book available on Amazon? Thanks for sharing that great story & I agree with you about it being a lot of work. I think that is why Charles Petzold's books were so long (and so great).

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                      stheller2
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #32

                      Thanks! Yes, although it is out of print there are used ones available on Amazon at a reasonable price, or you could get the Kindle edition (not recommended because the formatting isn't that good): https://www.amazon.com/Dialog-Programming-Standard-Library-ebook/dp/B000ZJP35S[^]

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                      • S stheller2

                        Thanks! Yes, although it is out of print there are used ones available on Amazon at a reasonable price, or you could get the Kindle edition (not recommended because the formatting isn't that good): https://www.amazon.com/Dialog-Programming-Standard-Library-ebook/dp/B000ZJP35S[^]

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                        raddevus
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #33

                        Very interesting. Fantastic introduction by Eric S. Raymond (a world-class author himself). Also, interesting that you explained that you thought the reader would read the chapters multiple times. I have always had to do that (started out in 1992 with C++ for Dummies and wore that book out). I would read 1st 3 chapters, give up for a while. Start again, read 1st 5 chapters. Give up. Start again, read 1st 5 chapters again. Give up. Start again, read 1st 6f chapters. Give up. etc. I always felt like an idiot.

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                        • R raddevus

                          Very interesting. Fantastic introduction by Eric S. Raymond (a world-class author himself). Also, interesting that you explained that you thought the reader would read the chapters multiple times. I have always had to do that (started out in 1992 with C++ for Dummies and wore that book out). I would read 1st 3 chapters, give up for a while. Start again, read 1st 5 chapters. Give up. Start again, read 1st 5 chapters again. Give up. Start again, read 1st 6f chapters. Give up. etc. I always felt like an idiot.

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                          stheller2
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #34

                          Thanks! I hope if you read my book you won't feel like an idiot. :)

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