I wish Microsoft would write a CAD program.
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There. I said it. Microsoft is good at creating visual designers. They just are. Now, we've all complained about them, but we all use them (or rather, many of us do) because the alternatives are so much worse. I've been wrestling with EAGLE trying to build a schematic, and whoever designed it broke every possible rule of good UI design and maybe a few that haven't been written yet. Using it is like having your teeth pulled. And I think back to Visio, as much as I hated it, it was so much better than this. :sigh:
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
I gave up on Eagle and instead went to Kicad. Kicad seems to work much easier -- for me. I had never used a CAD type of program before and Kicad got me all the way to a complete PCB which I sent to oshkosh and had manufactured. try it, it's free: KiCad EDA - Schematic Capture & PCB Design Software[^]
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There. I said it. Microsoft is good at creating visual designers. They just are. Now, we've all complained about them, but we all use them (or rather, many of us do) because the alternatives are so much worse. I've been wrestling with EAGLE trying to build a schematic, and whoever designed it broke every possible rule of good UI design and maybe a few that haven't been written yet. Using it is like having your teeth pulled. And I think back to Visio, as much as I hated it, it was so much better than this. :sigh:
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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This one is 3D but you can omit the Z axis and draw semantics IT is FREE to use online I use it to model woodworking models Trimble Identity[^]
It would need to be able to load common electronics component models, including schematics. Most 3D cad programs can't do schematics, and then routing based on that.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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There. I said it. Microsoft is good at creating visual designers. They just are. Now, we've all complained about them, but we all use them (or rather, many of us do) because the alternatives are so much worse. I've been wrestling with EAGLE trying to build a schematic, and whoever designed it broke every possible rule of good UI design and maybe a few that haven't been written yet. Using it is like having your teeth pulled. And I think back to Visio, as much as I hated it, it was so much better than this. :sigh:
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
[^] KiCad is free and brilliant.
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There. I said it. Microsoft is good at creating visual designers. They just are. Now, we've all complained about them, but we all use them (or rather, many of us do) because the alternatives are so much worse. I've been wrestling with EAGLE trying to build a schematic, and whoever designed it broke every possible rule of good UI design and maybe a few that haven't been written yet. Using it is like having your teeth pulled. And I think back to Visio, as much as I hated it, it was so much better than this. :sigh:
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
I battled with Eagle, but gave up, tried using KiCAD better than Eagle, however it seems to be getting closer to Altium. There is was(?) a PCB designer called ProTel which was one of the parents of Altium, not too sure if it got abandoned but I found it online for a very low (cheap) price. Not too sure if all the latest foot prints are available though. :)
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There. I said it. Microsoft is good at creating visual designers. They just are. Now, we've all complained about them, but we all use them (or rather, many of us do) because the alternatives are so much worse. I've been wrestling with EAGLE trying to build a schematic, and whoever designed it broke every possible rule of good UI design and maybe a few that haven't been written yet. Using it is like having your teeth pulled. And I think back to Visio, as much as I hated it, it was so much better than this. :sigh:
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
honey the codewitch wrote:
I've been wrestling with EAGLE trying to build a schematic, and whoever designed it broke every possible rule of good UI design
Give it a try to KiCAD. After 25 years far from electrical diagrams and their related PCBs, it was enough for me to use it for a few days to create a complete project, starting from the electric diagram to Gerber and drilling files. As far as I know, people at CERN are heavily involved in the development and maintenance of this EDA tool. Which is free. A native auto router is missing, but AFAIK you can export the netlist to other free tools to re-import the auto-routing design to KiCad.
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There. I said it. Microsoft is good at creating visual designers. They just are. Now, we've all complained about them, but we all use them (or rather, many of us do) because the alternatives are so much worse. I've been wrestling with EAGLE trying to build a schematic, and whoever designed it broke every possible rule of good UI design and maybe a few that haven't been written yet. Using it is like having your teeth pulled. And I think back to Visio, as much as I hated it, it was so much better than this. :sigh:
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
Have you ever tried using Solidworks? It’s appalling from a UI point of view. I think a different team implemented each function without any holistic view of how it will all go together. The number of inconsistencies would probably get me banned for spamming if I listed them all!
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There. I said it. Microsoft is good at creating visual designers. They just are. Now, we've all complained about them, but we all use them (or rather, many of us do) because the alternatives are so much worse. I've been wrestling with EAGLE trying to build a schematic, and whoever designed it broke every possible rule of good UI design and maybe a few that haven't been written yet. Using it is like having your teeth pulled. And I think back to Visio, as much as I hated it, it was so much better than this. :sigh:
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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There. I said it. Microsoft is good at creating visual designers. They just are. Now, we've all complained about them, but we all use them (or rather, many of us do) because the alternatives are so much worse. I've been wrestling with EAGLE trying to build a schematic, and whoever designed it broke every possible rule of good UI design and maybe a few that haven't been written yet. Using it is like having your teeth pulled. And I think back to Visio, as much as I hated it, it was so much better than this. :sigh:
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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There. I said it. Microsoft is good at creating visual designers. They just are. Now, we've all complained about them, but we all use them (or rather, many of us do) because the alternatives are so much worse. I've been wrestling with EAGLE trying to build a schematic, and whoever designed it broke every possible rule of good UI design and maybe a few that haven't been written yet. Using it is like having your teeth pulled. And I think back to Visio, as much as I hated it, it was so much better than this. :sigh:
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
CADdyi by Microsoft A free CAD software with premium features for the maker! *If someone uses this name, you owe me money.
The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.
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I gave up on Eagle and instead went to Kicad. Kicad seems to work much easier -- for me. I had never used a CAD type of program before and Kicad got me all the way to a complete PCB which I sent to oshkosh and had manufactured. try it, it's free: KiCad EDA - Schematic Capture & PCB Design Software[^]
Sweet, nice to hear about a fellow Kicad user! I haven't designed a full board yet, but am toying with it. It's nice! What was your project? Any links?
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I'll put in another plug for KiCAD. I used Cadence stuff professionally before retiring, but now I only do occasional contracts and homers, it's not worth buying stuff. KiCAD is pretty good - pity I can't import my libraries from work, tho'!
One other note about Kicad, it will import Eagle designs! I've tried it and it's not too bad of an import.
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There. I said it. Microsoft is good at creating visual designers. They just are. Now, we've all complained about them, but we all use them (or rather, many of us do) because the alternatives are so much worse. I've been wrestling with EAGLE trying to build a schematic, and whoever designed it broke every possible rule of good UI design and maybe a few that haven't been written yet. Using it is like having your teeth pulled. And I think back to Visio, as much as I hated it, it was so much better than this. :sigh:
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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There. I said it. Microsoft is good at creating visual designers. They just are. Now, we've all complained about them, but we all use them (or rather, many of us do) because the alternatives are so much worse. I've been wrestling with EAGLE trying to build a schematic, and whoever designed it broke every possible rule of good UI design and maybe a few that haven't been written yet. Using it is like having your teeth pulled. And I think back to Visio, as much as I hated it, it was so much better than this. :sigh:
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
MS was good at creating visual designers. That was back in the days of Alan Cooper and his peers at Microsoft. Today, not so much. After several years of Xamarin, they still can't figure out how to make a XAML designer that supports Xamarin XAML. Now with MAUI and Blazor (HTML/CSS), no visual designer. MS has lost their edge in understanding the value-add of rapid application design (RAD). They settle for syntactic sugar updates of little value to C#. Honestly, I am not sure there is anyone in MS' developer tools division that knows what value engineering is, and how it relates to making tools that advance RAD.
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MS was good at creating visual designers. That was back in the days of Alan Cooper and his peers at Microsoft. Today, not so much. After several years of Xamarin, they still can't figure out how to make a XAML designer that supports Xamarin XAML. Now with MAUI and Blazor (HTML/CSS), no visual designer. MS has lost their edge in understanding the value-add of rapid application design (RAD). They settle for syntactic sugar updates of little value to C#. Honestly, I am not sure there is anyone in MS' developer tools division that knows what value engineering is, and how it relates to making tools that advance RAD.
Fair. I've been so immersed in C++ and IoT things, and before that, console based code generators that I haven't paid much attention to the goings on at MS as of late.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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I gave up on Eagle and instead went to Kicad. Kicad seems to work much easier -- for me. I had never used a CAD type of program before and Kicad got me all the way to a complete PCB which I sent to oshkosh and had manufactured. try it, it's free: KiCad EDA - Schematic Capture & PCB Design Software[^]
I agree, I used Eagle for several projects, and found it to restrictive for small projects (Understand they want to sell it to you) but the free version changed when sold to another company I also tried DesignSpark it works but has stalled on development and seemed awkward to use I started using KiCad several years ago and it seems to work well with no restrictions If you are just doing schematics (electronic) it should be good for you
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There. I said it. Microsoft is good at creating visual designers. They just are. Now, we've all complained about them, but we all use them (or rather, many of us do) because the alternatives are so much worse. I've been wrestling with EAGLE trying to build a schematic, and whoever designed it broke every possible rule of good UI design and maybe a few that haven't been written yet. Using it is like having your teeth pulled. And I think back to Visio, as much as I hated it, it was so much better than this. :sigh:
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
Agreed. As long as MS continue to support it after I've clawed my way up the learning curve. I use Fusion 360 with a hobbyist license. It's getting much better with each release, but they keep moving features out of the free license into the paid license. Also, some of the folks that pay are complaining that you now have to pay for some of the analysis features as a service. Most of the analysis tools used to run locally. I used Blender in the past but switched to Fusion360 for the drawing and drafting features, but Blender now has more engineering features. I may switch back if Fusion360 continues to paywall more features. Sad, though, since the learning curve for Fusion360 is so steep.
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It would need to be able to load common electronics component models, including schematics. Most 3D cad programs can't do schematics, and then routing based on that.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
I haven't tried DesignSpark, but some like it. An other possibility(s) is the software from the board house. I used ExpressPCB several years back - poor software but simple for the small thing I was doing - their 3 boards 2" x 3" deal worked for me. ( But I only needed 7 LEDs, terminal strips and stuff, no logic ICs. ) ( Also, I needed to have the board match the enclosure top ( a Rose & Bopla cast Al box - you need an HMI for 6 spindle multiples? IR, Bosch, Copco... ? ) so some component placement was dictated by panel design. ) There's at least 2 other places with their own software and I expect the software has gotten better. Better than breadboards, ( Oh, I really like my Hakko iron. And the PanaVise. ) Have fun. dave
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I case you don't know the story behind it, Eagle was designed by a German company (CadSoft). On principle, I stay away from German designed UI and Eagle was just one more example why I should follow this rule. Now it is part of AutoDesk and it is slowly integrated with Fusion360. It's getting better but still has a way to go. There are alternatives out there but once you've made you parts library, switching is more difficult.
Mircea
In my opinion , I am obviously opinionated and basing few of my onions on long and well paid carrier of "quality assurance". Actually making sure the product does what it advertises and is user friendly. As far as Eagle goes - I have been using it for many years - as a hobbyist. I really do not understand how such versatile ( as far as hardware components libraries ) product has such awful "navigation concept". I have pointed out to the vendor, few years back, that switching from layout to schematic needs improvement... but I do like theirs "autorouter".
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Sweet, nice to hear about a fellow Kicad user! I haven't designed a full board yet, but am toying with it. It's nice! What was your project? Any links?
Mine is a device which monitors room temperature, saves to SD card if chosen (button pressed or selected via bluetooth) and will report info back over bluetooth. Here's an older tweet (ala twitter) that shows the schematic: https://twitter.com/raddevus/status/1428800395627876359[^] The device has an oled screen, bluetooth module, tmp36 (for getting temperature), uses an atmega4809 and has a realtime clock -- so you can know temp at specific times.