Request for advice
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I need some advice, A while back I encountered a fraudulent claim buy a prominent software engineer that was taking claim towards some public code. The code is actually very well known and was available for about fifteen years. He was not the author. In fact, the code is used as part of a Cybersecurity curriculum for hundreds of thousands of university students all across the globe. I called him out and explained that the code was in the public domain for a very long time. Unfortunately the audience was completely unaware and I was ridiculed by a small minority group. How do you approach this situation? I want to preserve the reputation of all parties, I want to say it's a lie without ruining his reputation. How can I do this? My actions are not malicious, but the truth must be told. Any advice?
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I need some advice, A while back I encountered a fraudulent claim buy a prominent software engineer that was taking claim towards some public code. The code is actually very well known and was available for about fifteen years. He was not the author. In fact, the code is used as part of a Cybersecurity curriculum for hundreds of thousands of university students all across the globe. I called him out and explained that the code was in the public domain for a very long time. Unfortunately the audience was completely unaware and I was ridiculed by a small minority group. How do you approach this situation? I want to preserve the reputation of all parties, I want to say it's a lie without ruining his reputation. How can I do this? My actions are not malicious, but the truth must be told. Any advice?
Remain calm, and just point them at the original source. Don't besmirch him, just present the facts. Don't get involved in a slanging match - you never win an argument online with idiots or script kiddies. His reputation is his problem, not yours.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Remain calm, and just point them at the original source. Don't besmirch him, just present the facts. Don't get involved in a slanging match - you never win an argument online with idiots or script kiddies. His reputation is his problem, not yours.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
Well, I can only stand in front of my peers as a Christian and say that we all have made mistakes. The very message of Jesus is that we all live with faults. I accept all my faults and the resulting judgements. Nobody is perfect. I also want to be able to speak truthful. When I see something that is a lie I want to be able to show it. This situation wasn't a 'small' lie, it was kinda out in the open for millions to see.
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I need some advice, A while back I encountered a fraudulent claim buy a prominent software engineer that was taking claim towards some public code. The code is actually very well known and was available for about fifteen years. He was not the author. In fact, the code is used as part of a Cybersecurity curriculum for hundreds of thousands of university students all across the globe. I called him out and explained that the code was in the public domain for a very long time. Unfortunately the audience was completely unaware and I was ridiculed by a small minority group. How do you approach this situation? I want to preserve the reputation of all parties, I want to say it's a lie without ruining his reputation. How can I do this? My actions are not malicious, but the truth must be told. Any advice?
One advice in an office scenario is "Praise in public and reprimand privately". But since this is online, then perhaps it may be tailored to "Reprimand publicly, but somewhat gently".
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Well, I can only stand in front of my peers as a Christian and say that we all have made mistakes. The very message of Jesus is that we all live with faults. I accept all my faults and the resulting judgements. Nobody is perfect. I also want to be able to speak truthful. When I see something that is a lie I want to be able to show it. This situation wasn't a 'small' lie, it was kinda out in the open for millions to see.
Yeah, but shouting and screaming just makes you look like an idiot - much like those who ridiculed you. Presenting facts in a neutral way won't change their minds, they never do - but it plants a niggling doubt there that maybe means they will look at what the prominent developer does a little more carefully in future. I'm against plagiarism in all its forms, you know that. But idiots and fanatics don't need to think, or exercise judgement because they know they are right and nothing will dissuade them from that faith. If it was here, then point us at the plagiarism and we'll kick him off if we believe it is justified.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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I need some advice, A while back I encountered a fraudulent claim buy a prominent software engineer that was taking claim towards some public code. The code is actually very well known and was available for about fifteen years. He was not the author. In fact, the code is used as part of a Cybersecurity curriculum for hundreds of thousands of university students all across the globe. I called him out and explained that the code was in the public domain for a very long time. Unfortunately the audience was completely unaware and I was ridiculed by a small minority group. How do you approach this situation? I want to preserve the reputation of all parties, I want to say it's a lie without ruining his reputation. How can I do this? My actions are not malicious, but the truth must be told. Any advice?
Randor wrote:
I want to say it's a lie without ruining his reputation.
Surely he is trying to gain a good reputation by lying? I think you just need to state the facts about the code, without explicitly calling him a liar. Assuming you can prove your case then I think that is all that you need to do. Let others decide for themselves who to believe, and accept that not all of them will side with you.
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Yeah, but shouting and screaming just makes you look like an idiot - much like those who ridiculed you. Presenting facts in a neutral way won't change their minds, they never do - but it plants a niggling doubt there that maybe means they will look at what the prominent developer does a little more carefully in future. I'm against plagiarism in all its forms, you know that. But idiots and fanatics don't need to think, or exercise judgement because they know they are right and nothing will dissuade them from that faith. If it was here, then point us at the plagiarism and we'll kick him off if we believe it is justified.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
OriginalGriff wrote:
If it was here, then point us at the plagiarism and we'll kick him off if we believe it is justified.
I do not want anyone to be 'kicked'. I simply want staff to realize the implications. It was a 'huge' lie. "Know your friends" would be my message. I think I know what happened, we are all getting old, I suspect a spouse was speaking for the author but I may be wrong. (I hope as a moderator you can see the deleted messages on this thread, others are pulling back imporant responses, don't want to dox them)
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Randor wrote:
I want to say it's a lie without ruining his reputation.
Surely he is trying to gain a good reputation by lying? I think you just need to state the facts about the code, without explicitly calling him a liar. Assuming you can prove your case then I think that is all that you need to do. Let others decide for themselves who to believe, and accept that not all of them will side with you.
The problem with being vague (which is exactly what I did) is that it leaves the thread open to interpretation. Humans have bias, some very important codeproject contractors misinterpreted the thread. Mostly because the author deleted his posts and the moderators cleaned up the rest of the thread. A few netsec experts challenged the claim. Everything was deleted. Left me out in the open looking like an idiot. I won't make the same mistake again. Next time I will announce it on /r/netsec or [Ycombinator](https://news.ycombinator.com/). You guys here on codeproject live in a bubble, all 800 web devs read the news.
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The problem with being vague (which is exactly what I did) is that it leaves the thread open to interpretation. Humans have bias, some very important codeproject contractors misinterpreted the thread. Mostly because the author deleted his posts and the moderators cleaned up the rest of the thread. A few netsec experts challenged the claim. Everything was deleted. Left me out in the open looking like an idiot. I won't make the same mistake again. Next time I will announce it on /r/netsec or [Ycombinator](https://news.ycombinator.com/). You guys here on codeproject live in a bubble, all 800 web devs read the news.
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OriginalGriff wrote:
If it was here, then point us at the plagiarism and we'll kick him off if we believe it is justified.
I do not want anyone to be 'kicked'. I simply want staff to realize the implications. It was a 'huge' lie. "Know your friends" would be my message. I think I know what happened, we are all getting old, I suspect a spouse was speaking for the author but I may be wrong. (I hope as a moderator you can see the deleted messages on this thread, others are pulling back imporant responses, don't want to dox them)
Nope, deleted messages are gone ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Randor wrote:
You guys here on codeproject live in a bubble, all 800 web devs read the news.
I certainly don't live in a bubble. But I do choose which sites I go to for news, comment, teaching materials etc.
Richard, I've said thousands of things in my time here on codeproject over the last 20 years. But of all the things I ever said, I want you to know that with 100% confidence I can say you are in an [information bubble](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter\_bubble). My country has spent over a trillion dollars to ensure that. Sure, I drank two bottles of red wine tonight but it opens my lips. It's the truth. I can't even escape it, I just deal with it.
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Richard, I've said thousands of things in my time here on codeproject over the last 20 years. But of all the things I ever said, I want you to know that with 100% confidence I can say you are in an [information bubble](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter\_bubble). My country has spent over a trillion dollars to ensure that. Sure, I drank two bottles of red wine tonight but it opens my lips. It's the truth. I can't even escape it, I just deal with it.
Randor wrote:
I want you to know that with 100% confidence I can say you are in an information bubble.
Yes, you can say anything you like, but that does not make it true. And given you know very little about me, I don't think you are in any position to make such a judgement.
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Randor wrote:
I want you to know that with 100% confidence I can say you are in an information bubble.
Yes, you can say anything you like, but that does not make it true. And given you know very little about me, I don't think you are in any position to make such a judgement.
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I need some advice, A while back I encountered a fraudulent claim buy a prominent software engineer that was taking claim towards some public code. The code is actually very well known and was available for about fifteen years. He was not the author. In fact, the code is used as part of a Cybersecurity curriculum for hundreds of thousands of university students all across the globe. I called him out and explained that the code was in the public domain for a very long time. Unfortunately the audience was completely unaware and I was ridiculed by a small minority group. How do you approach this situation? I want to preserve the reputation of all parties, I want to say it's a lie without ruining his reputation. How can I do this? My actions are not malicious, but the truth must be told. Any advice?
I liked Griff's advice and don't see much good coming out of trying to go further. Is there any possibility the code could have been independently invented?
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The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing. -
I need some advice, A while back I encountered a fraudulent claim buy a prominent software engineer that was taking claim towards some public code. The code is actually very well known and was available for about fifteen years. He was not the author. In fact, the code is used as part of a Cybersecurity curriculum for hundreds of thousands of university students all across the globe. I called him out and explained that the code was in the public domain for a very long time. Unfortunately the audience was completely unaware and I was ridiculed by a small minority group. How do you approach this situation? I want to preserve the reputation of all parties, I want to say it's a lie without ruining his reputation. How can I do this? My actions are not malicious, but the truth must be told. Any advice?
If the code was "available for fifteen years", point to a link to archive.org and let people come to their own conclusion. End of story.
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I need some advice, A while back I encountered a fraudulent claim buy a prominent software engineer that was taking claim towards some public code. The code is actually very well known and was available for about fifteen years. He was not the author. In fact, the code is used as part of a Cybersecurity curriculum for hundreds of thousands of university students all across the globe. I called him out and explained that the code was in the public domain for a very long time. Unfortunately the audience was completely unaware and I was ridiculed by a small minority group. How do you approach this situation? I want to preserve the reputation of all parties, I want to say it's a lie without ruining his reputation. How can I do this? My actions are not malicious, but the truth must be told. Any advice?
Randor wrote:
the truth must be told.
No it doesn't. Don't engage.
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I need some advice, A while back I encountered a fraudulent claim buy a prominent software engineer that was taking claim towards some public code. The code is actually very well known and was available for about fifteen years. He was not the author. In fact, the code is used as part of a Cybersecurity curriculum for hundreds of thousands of university students all across the globe. I called him out and explained that the code was in the public domain for a very long time. Unfortunately the audience was completely unaware and I was ridiculed by a small minority group. How do you approach this situation? I want to preserve the reputation of all parties, I want to say it's a lie without ruining his reputation. How can I do this? My actions are not malicious, but the truth must be told. Any advice?
I agree with OriginalGriff here. I believe it was Mark Twain who said that you should never argue with a fool - he will drag you down to his level, and beat you with his experience. The same, IMO, applies to a plagiarist.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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The problem with being vague (which is exactly what I did) is that it leaves the thread open to interpretation. Humans have bias, some very important codeproject contractors misinterpreted the thread. Mostly because the author deleted his posts and the moderators cleaned up the rest of the thread. A few netsec experts challenged the claim. Everything was deleted. Left me out in the open looking like an idiot. I won't make the same mistake again. Next time I will announce it on /r/netsec or [Ycombinator](https://news.ycombinator.com/). You guys here on codeproject live in a bubble, all 800 web devs read the news.
Randor wrote:
Mostly because the author deleted his posts and the moderators cleaned up the rest of the thread.
I don't like that behaviour, he deleting all the messages implies for me that he has something to hide. I would not delete such a thread. I missed the situation.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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I need some advice, A while back I encountered a fraudulent claim buy a prominent software engineer that was taking claim towards some public code. The code is actually very well known and was available for about fifteen years. He was not the author. In fact, the code is used as part of a Cybersecurity curriculum for hundreds of thousands of university students all across the globe. I called him out and explained that the code was in the public domain for a very long time. Unfortunately the audience was completely unaware and I was ridiculed by a small minority group. How do you approach this situation? I want to preserve the reputation of all parties, I want to say it's a lie without ruining his reputation. How can I do this? My actions are not malicious, but the truth must be told. Any advice?
It depends how pissed you are with the plagiarizer and how much time you have on your hands. Jumping up and screaming can be fun and getting into a flame war used to be a favourite pastime for some.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity - RAH I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
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I need some advice, A while back I encountered a fraudulent claim buy a prominent software engineer that was taking claim towards some public code. The code is actually very well known and was available for about fifteen years. He was not the author. In fact, the code is used as part of a Cybersecurity curriculum for hundreds of thousands of university students all across the globe. I called him out and explained that the code was in the public domain for a very long time. Unfortunately the audience was completely unaware and I was ridiculed by a small minority group. How do you approach this situation? I want to preserve the reputation of all parties, I want to say it's a lie without ruining his reputation. How can I do this? My actions are not malicious, but the truth must be told. Any advice?
If I had a couple of well known places supporting / proving my point, I think I would post the code involved and the links to the places cointaining it long time before the article of that other user. I would not name the user, though. If someone wants to dig deeper... own decission. Most people here should be able to find what they need to find if they wanted to.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
