At the interview you find out you don't want to work there...
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I have, on more than one occasion been called for an interview for a job that, on paper, seemed like a good opportunity; only to find, during the interview itself (or the workplace tour on occasion), that the workplace was toxic, corrupt, disorganized or just plain bad and that I definitely wasn't going to take the job. Have you?
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
Some time ago I interviewed at a small company. Walking back to the boss's office, I figured out I didn't want to work there. Everyone was wearing a dress shirt, pants, and a tie X| . Nobody was talking to each other in an open floor plan office. No personal items on the desks. The boss was retired military. He wanted me to be his "V.P. of Engineering", which meant I would run the office while he traveled and schmoozed looking for government contracts. For this he was offering 5K less than I was making at the time, the salary was non-negotiable, and I was expected to be on-call 24/7. No :elephant:ing thank you.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
I have, on more than one occasion been called for an interview for a job that, on paper, seemed like a good opportunity; only to find, during the interview itself (or the workplace tour on occasion), that the workplace was toxic, corrupt, disorganized or just plain bad and that I definitely wasn't going to take the job. Have you?
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
My take is slightly different. I had a very successful interview at a company's London HQ and was offered the job to start in their North West office. On the first day, I discovered that being abusive to colleagues was acceptable & almost expected. Their lunch hour spread into a two hour boozing session, that ensued in stronger abuse, bordering on violence. I went home that evening and wrote a resignation letter; drove back to the office and posted it along with my pass, never to return. The following day, I received an email from the manager that confirmed I had made the correct decision. The company has since gone out of business.
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I have, on more than one occasion been called for an interview for a job that, on paper, seemed like a good opportunity; only to find, during the interview itself (or the workplace tour on occasion), that the workplace was toxic, corrupt, disorganized or just plain bad and that I definitely wasn't going to take the job. Have you?
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
More times than the ones I was found wanting. Usually it's a 60/40 between me not wanting to work for them and them not interested. I'm also quite aware of the fact that since I am honest to a fault and quite direct (not rude, unless provoked) some of those who told me that they are not interested did it just to save face - proof? Their bosses keep sending me invitations to interviews at least twice a year since 3 years.
GCS/GE d--(d) s-/+ a C+++ U+++ P-- L+@ E-- W+++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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Absolutely. I don't interview for work anymore - I can't because panic attacks tend to overshadow any potential strengths I can bring to the table as a prospective worker, but I used to do quite well at it before my anxiety trouble. So with that caveat, when I used to interview, I learned sometime around 2005? or so not to "dress up" for interviews. Part of it is when I look like me, let's just say I get noticed a lot, for better or worse. I'm apparently "different" But I can play "normal" on TV. I can dress in business formal and hide most of my eccentricities for an hour. But then I'm stuck with the guy who is my supervisor who couldn't deal with me as I am, because I left him the wrong impression of who *I* am. Now, I knew this guy would probably take issue with me - I worked that out at the interview. I'm genderweird, and I know how that impacts some people. I wasn't born in space. But I wanted to work for the company, so I didn't punt it. I went ahead and aced it. That was a big mistake. Huge. I've never been in an environment where someone's personal hangups so overshadowed their ability to work with someone different than they are. I was escorted out of that job. That's how much he didn't like me. After he got the project he hired me for. Never again. It's not worth it. If I get a bad initial read on someone I'm going to work with, I walk away. The interview (such as there is one) is the place for that.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
honey the codewitch wrote:
or so not to "dress up" for interviews.
This is golden advice that I learn myself. I am not that weird - I'm a bog standard metalhead in his 30s that no longer wears band sweaters because the last ones he bought no longer fit (I swear these new fabrics tighten with time). That said, I don't wear suits or ties and it shows. When I wear one it is painfully obvious that I'm not used to that dress code, and that since I'm paid like an engineer in my country (little more than a manula laborer) I have to wear mass produced suits, which exacerbate the "man who stole some clothes from the garbage can" impression. I also learnt to not hold back my true character too much: I am direct, inquisitive and I do have my needs, wants and lacks. Let's be honest from Time0 since if it goes well we'll be working together for way too much time, if it doesn't it doesn't and that's it.
GCS/GE d--(d) s-/+ a C+++ U+++ P-- L+@ E-- W+++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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I have, on more than one occasion been called for an interview for a job that, on paper, seemed like a good opportunity; only to find, during the interview itself (or the workplace tour on occasion), that the workplace was toxic, corrupt, disorganized or just plain bad and that I definitely wasn't going to take the job. Have you?
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
1. Be polite; you never know when you will need to work again with the people you are interviewing with. They will remember "rude" if they encounter you again. 2. Do a good job, don't intentionally blow the interview. After all, you never know when you will need to work with the people you are interviewing with. They will remember "idiot" if they encounter you again. 3. Decline a follow up interview or offer, and don't mention your personal reasons, just don't go back. If they encounter you later they will likely remember you as "the one that got away". Be professional! You never know when you will need to work with the people you are interviewing with.
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1. Be polite; you never know when you will need to work again with the people you are interviewing with. They will remember "rude" if they encounter you again. 2. Do a good job, don't intentionally blow the interview. After all, you never know when you will need to work with the people you are interviewing with. They will remember "idiot" if they encounter you again. 3. Decline a follow up interview or offer, and don't mention your personal reasons, just don't go back. If they encounter you later they will likely remember you as "the one that got away". Be professional! You never know when you will need to work with the people you are interviewing with.
WPerkins wrote:
You never know when you will need to work with the people you are interviewing with.
Sometimes those are the problem in the interview, I strategically used rudeness to ensure I will not work with those people at all. The way I see it is: if we're going to work together and they have the position of power, I'm out. If I am in the position of power, bad for them. If we're at the same level, I gave all the :elephant:s I had during Halloween, sorry.
GCS/GE d--(d) s-/+ a C+++ U+++ P-- L+@ E-- W+++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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I once interviewed for a company whose headquarters were in Buffalo NY but they had a satellite office in Albany. The commute to Albany would be about an hour but I was definitely needing work at that time. So, they told me they wouldn't do a Zoom interview, I had to come in to the office at Albany. OK, I can do that. In the Albany office, I was led into a conference room where the freaking interview was conducted over Zoom with me being the only person in the conference room. F***ing morons. I was so pissed off that I tried my new line on them. When asked "what is an abstract class" I told them, "please don't ask me junior programming questions and that anyone can Google the answer for." The silence was stunning and deeply satisfying. :laugh:
Latest Article:
Create a Digital Ocean Droplet for .NET Core Web API with a real SSL Certificate on a DomainI once got asked how I'd reverse a string. "String.Reverse, of course." Well, what if you were working in an environment that didn't have that? "I'd start looking for a new platform." Then went through the algorithm. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Got called back later that morning by the headhunter saying, "They loved you! Can you come back this afternoon for a follow-up interview?" --------------- At the same time as above, had an interview with another organization. Get there, nobody's out by the reception area. Wandered down the hall, found someone and explained I was here for an interview. While waiting back in the reception area, saw a bookshelf filled with self-help management titles. My initial thought was, "these guys don't know what they're doing, and are grasping at straws." Turns out, I was right. Unfortunately for me, I thought position #2 would be a better use of my skills from the standpoint of being more socially responsible, and took it. Oops.
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I once had : "Do you have questions ?" "Yes, a few, thanks for asking. What tool are you using for source control ?" "Source what ?" "Mmhh, sorry, I gotta go"
You missed a golden opportunity to be master of the domain. Workplaces like that are in need of someone to lead them out of the dark ages - and that someone inevitably gets paid more.
------------------------------------------------ If you say that getting the money is the most important thing You will spend your life completely wasting your time You will be doing things you don't like doing In order to go on living That is, to go on doing things you don't like doing Which is stupid. - Alan Watts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gXTZM\_uPMY
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I have, on more than one occasion been called for an interview for a job that, on paper, seemed like a good opportunity; only to find, during the interview itself (or the workplace tour on occasion), that the workplace was toxic, corrupt, disorganized or just plain bad and that I definitely wasn't going to take the job. Have you?
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
Yep. Most of my turnoff for companies have been related to requiring a suite and tie or requiring 60+ hours a week. At my last interview (back in the early 80s) I wore sneakers, corduroy jeans, a flannel shirt and Mork style rainbow suspenders with a "Don't Panic" button. They hired me and it turned out to be one of the best places I ever worked at.
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I have, on more than one occasion been called for an interview for a job that, on paper, seemed like a good opportunity; only to find, during the interview itself (or the workplace tour on occasion), that the workplace was toxic, corrupt, disorganized or just plain bad and that I definitely wasn't going to take the job. Have you?
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
Yes, the interview is also for you to see if you want to work there. Success is not having to work where you don't want to. Nevertheless keep your questions on discovering what the job is up to the point that you can credibly say if you are up to it or not. If you can't get to that point then you have encountered incoherence on their part or yours - it isn't going to work. You find out about toxic environments by listening and observing, not by asking questions that make you sound picky. Toxic bosses are very often fond of telling you so in the interview: 'I am a bit of a perfectionist' etc. Listen carefully to their spiel. You can smile politely as they say it but don't think that they don't mean it.
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You missed a golden opportunity to be master of the domain. Workplaces like that are in need of someone to lead them out of the dark ages - and that someone inevitably gets paid more.
------------------------------------------------ If you say that getting the money is the most important thing You will spend your life completely wasting your time You will be doing things you don't like doing In order to go on living That is, to go on doing things you don't like doing Which is stupid. - Alan Watts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gXTZM\_uPMY
MMh ... no. Been there tried that. You land in the middle of people who simply do not understand or do not want or whatever, and you end up being the one who does everything because he knows how to while others get promoted. Forget about it.
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MMh ... no. Been there tried that. You land in the middle of people who simply do not understand or do not want or whatever, and you end up being the one who does everything because he knows how to while others get promoted. Forget about it.
Exactly right, THEY need to understand they have a problem they need to fix before someone with the knowledge and skills (and mandate) can go fix it. Otherwise it is lose lose. You can't teach a pig to sing, first you'll be unsuccessful, second, it will just irritate the pig. :-)
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MMh ... no. Been there tried that. You land in the middle of people who simply do not understand or do not want or whatever, and you end up being the one who does everything because he knows how to while others get promoted. Forget about it.
yeah, I also have "been there, done that" - several times - and I can confidently say that whilst it's not an easy trick to pull off, steering a company's tech base from the shadows can be really rewarding (:
------------------------------------------------ If you say that getting the money is the most important thing You will spend your life completely wasting your time You will be doing things you don't like doing In order to go on living That is, to go on doing things you don't like doing Which is stupid. - Alan Watts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gXTZM\_uPMY
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I have, on more than one occasion been called for an interview for a job that, on paper, seemed like a good opportunity; only to find, during the interview itself (or the workplace tour on occasion), that the workplace was toxic, corrupt, disorganized or just plain bad and that I definitely wasn't going to take the job. Have you?
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
I have, on a number of occasions been on job interviews that, during the interview, I decided I did not want the job. I then proceeded to shoot myself in the foot and lose the interview, sometimes regretting it. The Interview is NEVER the time or place to decide whether or not you want the job. Always sell yourself throughout the process. Only when you have a firm offer in front of you is the time to decide whether or not you want the job. Sometimes after thinking about it you may decide to give it a shot!
DonD
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I once had : "Do you have questions ?" "Yes, a few, thanks for asking. What tool are you using for source control ?" "Source what ?" "Mmhh, sorry, I gotta go"
Yes: the interview should always be you interviewing them, not them interviewing you!
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I once had : "Do you have questions ?" "Yes, a few, thanks for asking. What tool are you using for source control ?" "Source what ?" "Mmhh, sorry, I gotta go"
Rage wrote:
"Yes, a few, thanks for asking. What tool are you using for source control ?" "Source what ?"
Basically same thing happened to me. They did say however that they were thinking about doing that pretty soon. I didn't get the impression that they thought it was a priority. I heard about another place which had source control. For every release a developer would build it locally then zip the binaries and check that zip file into source control. Yep - only thing in source control was the binary builds of the release.
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honey the codewitch wrote:
or so not to "dress up" for interviews.
This is golden advice that I learn myself. I am not that weird - I'm a bog standard metalhead in his 30s that no longer wears band sweaters because the last ones he bought no longer fit (I swear these new fabrics tighten with time). That said, I don't wear suits or ties and it shows. When I wear one it is painfully obvious that I'm not used to that dress code, and that since I'm paid like an engineer in my country (little more than a manula laborer) I have to wear mass produced suits, which exacerbate the "man who stole some clothes from the garbage can" impression. I also learnt to not hold back my true character too much: I am direct, inquisitive and I do have my needs, wants and lacks. Let's be honest from Time0 since if it goes well we'll be working together for way too much time, if it doesn't it doesn't and that's it.
GCS/GE d--(d) s-/+ a C+++ U+++ P-- L+@ E-- W+++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
den2k88 wrote:
That said, I don't wear suits or ties and it shows. When I wear one it is painfully obvious that I'm not used to that dress code,
'business casual' - I add 20,000 to my ask. But places like that usually have additional adds so I price myself out. 'suit' - I would add 60,000 but been a really long time since I thought that was a possibility.