Do you actually read the "use agreements" of websites?
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So I broke a tooth, went to the dentist, they referred me to an endodontist - fun, fun. A few months ago, I came across an article where a very popular s/w package that is sold to doctor practices is collecting and selling your data. Since they get the info before it hits the practice IT system, it does not fall under HIPPA. For those of you not the US, HIPPA is short for "thou shalt not share medical information without the patient's consent." Theoretically, big trouble if you do share it. It applies to any medical profession. Back to the endodontist site, so to fill out the form, I have to agree to 3 pages of such legalize that its absurd. If my data is misused, I have to agree to arbitration no law suit, and I have to do it in the courts of California, yada, yada, yada. Oh, and if the terms change, it's MY responsibility to periodically check back to see if any of the changes bother me. How can that be a valid contract/agreement? It makes me wonder how many times we just "agree" to this crap and have no concept of what we are agreeing too. OOO, just got off the phone with the endodontist office - lol. Pissed off. I'd be happy to fill out a piece of paper - oh we don't do that. Okay then, please cancel my appointment. Well, there is a charge for a missed appointment - sure, give it a shot. lol. Reminds me - does it bother anyone else that medical/dental practices have all gotten happy with the missed appointment fees, but they are not responsible for their own tardiness?
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
Focus on the context. Sure, go out to reddit (what a cesspool) and create an account - I'm okay with that. Medical records? That's a different story. And these doctors, dentists, business office managers have no clue what they are buying. They are in fact writing the check and clicking "Accept". A few years ago my dearest became very interested in family genealogy. She was tracing roots back as far as we could go. I'm in the US, so one side of my family came from Ireland, the other side from England. Her side was English/German. We used a DNA site to learn more - then the DNA site - those elephanting SOBs sold the data to the FBI. I'm sure it was completely legit in the terms of agreement - or not - they probably changed the terms, and users never logged in to check the changes.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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So I broke a tooth, went to the dentist, they referred me to an endodontist - fun, fun. A few months ago, I came across an article where a very popular s/w package that is sold to doctor practices is collecting and selling your data. Since they get the info before it hits the practice IT system, it does not fall under HIPPA. For those of you not the US, HIPPA is short for "thou shalt not share medical information without the patient's consent." Theoretically, big trouble if you do share it. It applies to any medical profession. Back to the endodontist site, so to fill out the form, I have to agree to 3 pages of such legalize that its absurd. If my data is misused, I have to agree to arbitration no law suit, and I have to do it in the courts of California, yada, yada, yada. Oh, and if the terms change, it's MY responsibility to periodically check back to see if any of the changes bother me. How can that be a valid contract/agreement? It makes me wonder how many times we just "agree" to this crap and have no concept of what we are agreeing too. OOO, just got off the phone with the endodontist office - lol. Pissed off. I'd be happy to fill out a piece of paper - oh we don't do that. Okay then, please cancel my appointment. Well, there is a charge for a missed appointment - sure, give it a shot. lol. Reminds me - does it bother anyone else that medical/dental practices have all gotten happy with the missed appointment fees, but they are not responsible for their own tardiness?
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
tl;dr Read the what?
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Focus on the context. Sure, go out to reddit (what a cesspool) and create an account - I'm okay with that. Medical records? That's a different story. And these doctors, dentists, business office managers have no clue what they are buying. They are in fact writing the check and clicking "Accept". A few years ago my dearest became very interested in family genealogy. She was tracing roots back as far as we could go. I'm in the US, so one side of my family came from Ireland, the other side from England. Her side was English/German. We used a DNA site to learn more - then the DNA site - those elephanting SOBs sold the data to the FBI. I'm sure it was completely legit in the terms of agreement - or not - they probably changed the terms, and users never logged in to check the changes.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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charlieg wrote:
those elephanting SOBs sold the data to the FBI
Is that how they found you...?
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Focus on the context. Sure, go out to reddit (what a cesspool) and create an account - I'm okay with that. Medical records? That's a different story. And these doctors, dentists, business office managers have no clue what they are buying. They are in fact writing the check and clicking "Accept". A few years ago my dearest became very interested in family genealogy. She was tracing roots back as far as we could go. I'm in the US, so one side of my family came from Ireland, the other side from England. Her side was English/German. We used a DNA site to learn more - then the DNA site - those elephanting SOBs sold the data to the FBI. I'm sure it was completely legit in the terms of agreement - or not - they probably changed the terms, and users never logged in to check the changes.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
charlieg wrote:
those elephanting SOBs sold the data to the FBI
I remember Neil deGrasse Tyson was pushing 23andme pretty hard as an advertiser for his Star Talk podcast. Then it became public knowledge that yes, they were indeed selling the data to the FBI. Seems to me that this sort of thing ought to be front and center, not hidden in some tiny print near the end of some EULA.
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So I broke a tooth, went to the dentist, they referred me to an endodontist - fun, fun. A few months ago, I came across an article where a very popular s/w package that is sold to doctor practices is collecting and selling your data. Since they get the info before it hits the practice IT system, it does not fall under HIPPA. For those of you not the US, HIPPA is short for "thou shalt not share medical information without the patient's consent." Theoretically, big trouble if you do share it. It applies to any medical profession. Back to the endodontist site, so to fill out the form, I have to agree to 3 pages of such legalize that its absurd. If my data is misused, I have to agree to arbitration no law suit, and I have to do it in the courts of California, yada, yada, yada. Oh, and if the terms change, it's MY responsibility to periodically check back to see if any of the changes bother me. How can that be a valid contract/agreement? It makes me wonder how many times we just "agree" to this crap and have no concept of what we are agreeing too. OOO, just got off the phone with the endodontist office - lol. Pissed off. I'd be happy to fill out a piece of paper - oh we don't do that. Okay then, please cancel my appointment. Well, there is a charge for a missed appointment - sure, give it a shot. lol. Reminds me - does it bother anyone else that medical/dental practices have all gotten happy with the missed appointment fees, but they are not responsible for their own tardiness?
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
charlieg wrote:
that is sold to doctor practices is collecting and selling your data. Since they get the info before it hits the practice IT system, it does not fall under HIPPA.
FBI conducted 3.4 million warrantless queries last year to a database originally intended only to be used for foreign nationals but which now contains data on US citizens. And there is no way for you to find out if one of those included you. (Far as I have been able to determine the FBI has never identified a single foreign national threat in the US using that database as the original source.) So myself I don't get too concerned if someone wants data to target an ad to me about toothpaste.
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So I broke a tooth, went to the dentist, they referred me to an endodontist - fun, fun. A few months ago, I came across an article where a very popular s/w package that is sold to doctor practices is collecting and selling your data. Since they get the info before it hits the practice IT system, it does not fall under HIPPA. For those of you not the US, HIPPA is short for "thou shalt not share medical information without the patient's consent." Theoretically, big trouble if you do share it. It applies to any medical profession. Back to the endodontist site, so to fill out the form, I have to agree to 3 pages of such legalize that its absurd. If my data is misused, I have to agree to arbitration no law suit, and I have to do it in the courts of California, yada, yada, yada. Oh, and if the terms change, it's MY responsibility to periodically check back to see if any of the changes bother me. How can that be a valid contract/agreement? It makes me wonder how many times we just "agree" to this crap and have no concept of what we are agreeing too. OOO, just got off the phone with the endodontist office - lol. Pissed off. I'd be happy to fill out a piece of paper - oh we don't do that. Okay then, please cancel my appointment. Well, there is a charge for a missed appointment - sure, give it a shot. lol. Reminds me - does it bother anyone else that medical/dental practices have all gotten happy with the missed appointment fees, but they are not responsible for their own tardiness?
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
I check them, every time, absolutely! not
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So I broke a tooth, went to the dentist, they referred me to an endodontist - fun, fun. A few months ago, I came across an article where a very popular s/w package that is sold to doctor practices is collecting and selling your data. Since they get the info before it hits the practice IT system, it does not fall under HIPPA. For those of you not the US, HIPPA is short for "thou shalt not share medical information without the patient's consent." Theoretically, big trouble if you do share it. It applies to any medical profession. Back to the endodontist site, so to fill out the form, I have to agree to 3 pages of such legalize that its absurd. If my data is misused, I have to agree to arbitration no law suit, and I have to do it in the courts of California, yada, yada, yada. Oh, and if the terms change, it's MY responsibility to periodically check back to see if any of the changes bother me. How can that be a valid contract/agreement? It makes me wonder how many times we just "agree" to this crap and have no concept of what we are agreeing too. OOO, just got off the phone with the endodontist office - lol. Pissed off. I'd be happy to fill out a piece of paper - oh we don't do that. Okay then, please cancel my appointment. Well, there is a charge for a missed appointment - sure, give it a shot. lol. Reminds me - does it bother anyone else that medical/dental practices have all gotten happy with the missed appointment fees, but they are not responsible for their own tardiness?
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
I was more shocked to find out you guys have "missed appointment fees" rather than the fact that they are selling patient data lol
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So I broke a tooth, went to the dentist, they referred me to an endodontist - fun, fun. A few months ago, I came across an article where a very popular s/w package that is sold to doctor practices is collecting and selling your data. Since they get the info before it hits the practice IT system, it does not fall under HIPPA. For those of you not the US, HIPPA is short for "thou shalt not share medical information without the patient's consent." Theoretically, big trouble if you do share it. It applies to any medical profession. Back to the endodontist site, so to fill out the form, I have to agree to 3 pages of such legalize that its absurd. If my data is misused, I have to agree to arbitration no law suit, and I have to do it in the courts of California, yada, yada, yada. Oh, and if the terms change, it's MY responsibility to periodically check back to see if any of the changes bother me. How can that be a valid contract/agreement? It makes me wonder how many times we just "agree" to this crap and have no concept of what we are agreeing too. OOO, just got off the phone with the endodontist office - lol. Pissed off. I'd be happy to fill out a piece of paper - oh we don't do that. Okay then, please cancel my appointment. Well, there is a charge for a missed appointment - sure, give it a shot. lol. Reminds me - does it bother anyone else that medical/dental practices have all gotten happy with the missed appointment fees, but they are not responsible for their own tardiness?
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
I don't think that they could get away with that in the UK or EU. There is a concept of reasonableness in contract law which means that you can't bury unreasonable clauses that someone is expected to read in a long contract. Essentially they would need to make it very clear upfront, probably through several screens asking you to click "Yes I am ok with you sharing my medical data with a third party" more than once.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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So I broke a tooth, went to the dentist, they referred me to an endodontist - fun, fun. A few months ago, I came across an article where a very popular s/w package that is sold to doctor practices is collecting and selling your data. Since they get the info before it hits the practice IT system, it does not fall under HIPPA. For those of you not the US, HIPPA is short for "thou shalt not share medical information without the patient's consent." Theoretically, big trouble if you do share it. It applies to any medical profession. Back to the endodontist site, so to fill out the form, I have to agree to 3 pages of such legalize that its absurd. If my data is misused, I have to agree to arbitration no law suit, and I have to do it in the courts of California, yada, yada, yada. Oh, and if the terms change, it's MY responsibility to periodically check back to see if any of the changes bother me. How can that be a valid contract/agreement? It makes me wonder how many times we just "agree" to this crap and have no concept of what we are agreeing too. OOO, just got off the phone with the endodontist office - lol. Pissed off. I'd be happy to fill out a piece of paper - oh we don't do that. Okay then, please cancel my appointment. Well, there is a charge for a missed appointment - sure, give it a shot. lol. Reminds me - does it bother anyone else that medical/dental practices have all gotten happy with the missed appointment fees, but they are not responsible for their own tardiness?
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
I wouldn't think that a 'missed appointment' would be the same thing as a 'cancelled appointment'. A 'cancelled appointment' shouldn't incur a 'missed appointment fee'. As someone who loves to code, and loves to read, and has had to cut-back on reading becuase it seems I am outliving my eyesight, I don't accept responsibility for signing my name on anything i can't read. That means for me to be able to read it, make the font Liberation Sans, everything boldface, and everything 14 point size. Otherwise, it is all just a huge white blur. So legal agreements that have lot's of fine print I don't even TRY to read. Sorry to say this, but software licenses have also gotten way out of hand and impossible to decode. If I'd wanted to read, write, and decode legalese, I would have wasted my time in law school instead of computer science school.
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So I broke a tooth, went to the dentist, they referred me to an endodontist - fun, fun. A few months ago, I came across an article where a very popular s/w package that is sold to doctor practices is collecting and selling your data. Since they get the info before it hits the practice IT system, it does not fall under HIPPA. For those of you not the US, HIPPA is short for "thou shalt not share medical information without the patient's consent." Theoretically, big trouble if you do share it. It applies to any medical profession. Back to the endodontist site, so to fill out the form, I have to agree to 3 pages of such legalize that its absurd. If my data is misused, I have to agree to arbitration no law suit, and I have to do it in the courts of California, yada, yada, yada. Oh, and if the terms change, it's MY responsibility to periodically check back to see if any of the changes bother me. How can that be a valid contract/agreement? It makes me wonder how many times we just "agree" to this crap and have no concept of what we are agreeing too. OOO, just got off the phone with the endodontist office - lol. Pissed off. I'd be happy to fill out a piece of paper - oh we don't do that. Okay then, please cancel my appointment. Well, there is a charge for a missed appointment - sure, give it a shot. lol. Reminds me - does it bother anyone else that medical/dental practices have all gotten happy with the missed appointment fees, but they are not responsible for their own tardiness?
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
Living in a country with strong customer protection agencies (backed by strong customer protection law) got its perks: I don't have to sip through this legalese which, I swear, is written in a manner as obtuse as possible on purpose. Should they write something there which puts the user at an unfair disadvantage, it won't hold in court anyway so I don't have to care. I'm not bothered about missed appointment fees. In fact, they could be higher. It's not like they're doing it to earn an extra buck, appointments are a rare commodity and if you don't use your slot and don't tell them so they can fill in another patient, that's actually kinda evil.
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So I broke a tooth, went to the dentist, they referred me to an endodontist - fun, fun. A few months ago, I came across an article where a very popular s/w package that is sold to doctor practices is collecting and selling your data. Since they get the info before it hits the practice IT system, it does not fall under HIPPA. For those of you not the US, HIPPA is short for "thou shalt not share medical information without the patient's consent." Theoretically, big trouble if you do share it. It applies to any medical profession. Back to the endodontist site, so to fill out the form, I have to agree to 3 pages of such legalize that its absurd. If my data is misused, I have to agree to arbitration no law suit, and I have to do it in the courts of California, yada, yada, yada. Oh, and if the terms change, it's MY responsibility to periodically check back to see if any of the changes bother me. How can that be a valid contract/agreement? It makes me wonder how many times we just "agree" to this crap and have no concept of what we are agreeing too. OOO, just got off the phone with the endodontist office - lol. Pissed off. I'd be happy to fill out a piece of paper - oh we don't do that. Okay then, please cancel my appointment. Well, there is a charge for a missed appointment - sure, give it a shot. lol. Reminds me - does it bother anyone else that medical/dental practices have all gotten happy with the missed appointment fees, but they are not responsible for their own tardiness?
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
I don't need to, as they aren't "binding". Everyone clicks blindly on accept; any agreement based on deception or force, is not enforceable. In court, it would not be an agreement.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: "If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.