learn dot microsoft... is it just me?
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I'm an engineer. I like my data ORGANIZED. It used to be I could go out to usenet and talk with really smart people and get stuff done - even Microsoft tech. Then companies realized we want to be able to control all that - and the Microsoft forums were born. But that was okay because the topics and data were still ORGANIZED. The companies realized allowing google to cypher their data was bad, and google or any other search tools no longer delved into the microsoft forums. But it was okay - it was still ORGANIZED. Then Microsoft created learn.microsoft.com where it's all one amorphous blob. Or maybe it's just me, but I think not. For me to learn how to use this abortion, I give you this: Microsoft Q&A Articles | Microsoft Learn[^] I dare you to click. And if I want to ask a question? Well instead of being organized by topic, we get to use random tags, etc. But maybe it's just me.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
I totally agree. The Microsoft help files are abysmal. Not only poorly organized, but most often incomprehensible.:mad:
Ed
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I'm an engineer. I like my data ORGANIZED. It used to be I could go out to usenet and talk with really smart people and get stuff done - even Microsoft tech. Then companies realized we want to be able to control all that - and the Microsoft forums were born. But that was okay because the topics and data were still ORGANIZED. The companies realized allowing google to cypher their data was bad, and google or any other search tools no longer delved into the microsoft forums. But it was okay - it was still ORGANIZED. Then Microsoft created learn.microsoft.com where it's all one amorphous blob. Or maybe it's just me, but I think not. For me to learn how to use this abortion, I give you this: Microsoft Q&A Articles | Microsoft Learn[^] I dare you to click. And if I want to ask a question? Well instead of being organized by topic, we get to use random tags, etc. But maybe it's just me.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
Yeah ... what I remember as "MSDN" is gone. If you're not good at weeding, good luck.
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
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I'm an engineer. I like my data ORGANIZED. It used to be I could go out to usenet and talk with really smart people and get stuff done - even Microsoft tech. Then companies realized we want to be able to control all that - and the Microsoft forums were born. But that was okay because the topics and data were still ORGANIZED. The companies realized allowing google to cypher their data was bad, and google or any other search tools no longer delved into the microsoft forums. But it was okay - it was still ORGANIZED. Then Microsoft created learn.microsoft.com where it's all one amorphous blob. Or maybe it's just me, but I think not. For me to learn how to use this abortion, I give you this: Microsoft Q&A Articles | Microsoft Learn[^] I dare you to click. And if I want to ask a question? Well instead of being organized by topic, we get to use random tags, etc. But maybe it's just me.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
To make it even more fun, they remove all of their older documentation. If you ever do Win32 coding (and I don't suggest you do unless you enjoy pain), good lucking on getting documentation for that now.
Jeremy Falcon
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To make it even more fun, they remove all of their older documentation. If you ever do Win32 coding (and I don't suggest you do unless you enjoy pain), good lucking on getting documentation for that now.
Jeremy Falcon
Indeed. What is the cost, to them, of leaving that old documentation online in whatever state it was when it was last updated? It makes zero sense to remove that old stuff that no longer changes. The fact that MS no longer proactively develops anything using some older library/SDK/whatever doesn't mean nobody else does. How many useful blog entries, TechNet articles, etc have completely disappeared or can no longer be found because of dead links? Years ago I thought it was rather clever of MS to have links pointing to www.microsoft.com/fwlink?id=XXXXX because that meant any time they revamped some site, they could update any "real" target URL and keep it up to date so a page you simply know as "XXXXX" could remain accessible over time, and the dead link problem could be solved once and for all...how naive of me.
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I'm an engineer. I like my data ORGANIZED. It used to be I could go out to usenet and talk with really smart people and get stuff done - even Microsoft tech. Then companies realized we want to be able to control all that - and the Microsoft forums were born. But that was okay because the topics and data were still ORGANIZED. The companies realized allowing google to cypher their data was bad, and google or any other search tools no longer delved into the microsoft forums. But it was okay - it was still ORGANIZED. Then Microsoft created learn.microsoft.com where it's all one amorphous blob. Or maybe it's just me, but I think not. For me to learn how to use this abortion, I give you this: Microsoft Q&A Articles | Microsoft Learn[^] I dare you to click. And if I want to ask a question? Well instead of being organized by topic, we get to use random tags, etc. But maybe it's just me.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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well, I feel a little better now. The latest trend for Microsoft is to remove links to support items for older products. I still run VS2008 for "smart device" development. On occasion, I need to rebuild a VM or some other developer wants to wander into the code base. To get VS2008 to do the work, you need 2008, SP1 and a patch to fix SP1 :). All long gone from Microsoft's site, but I still have them. Just sent a link to a guy suffering ... speaking of old stuff - anyone here with a usenet account? I'm curious if usenet still hosts the old MS development groups.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
I've looked through my list of usenet groups, but I could find only these two that have posts and might be of slight interest (the numbers are the number of posts on eternal-september). alt.comp.microsoft.windows 939 alt.windows7.general 5568 I didn't see any MS development groups. -- Dave W
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well, I feel a little better now. The latest trend for Microsoft is to remove links to support items for older products. I still run VS2008 for "smart device" development. On occasion, I need to rebuild a VM or some other developer wants to wander into the code base. To get VS2008 to do the work, you need 2008, SP1 and a patch to fix SP1 :). All long gone from Microsoft's site, but I still have them. Just sent a link to a guy suffering ... speaking of old stuff - anyone here with a usenet account? I'm curious if usenet still hosts the old MS development groups.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
charlieg wrote:
I still run VS2008
So do we. We have several products and tools still maintained using VS2008. Our 'new' product development uses VS2019, and will probably move to VS2022 this year. When you've got products with a 20+ year life span and a very busy dev team, you don't change tools unnecessarily.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
I'm an engineer. I like my data ORGANIZED. It used to be I could go out to usenet and talk with really smart people and get stuff done - even Microsoft tech. Then companies realized we want to be able to control all that - and the Microsoft forums were born. But that was okay because the topics and data were still ORGANIZED. The companies realized allowing google to cypher their data was bad, and google or any other search tools no longer delved into the microsoft forums. But it was okay - it was still ORGANIZED. Then Microsoft created learn.microsoft.com where it's all one amorphous blob. Or maybe it's just me, but I think not. For me to learn how to use this abortion, I give you this: Microsoft Q&A Articles | Microsoft Learn[^] I dare you to click. And if I want to ask a question? Well instead of being organized by topic, we get to use random tags, etc. But maybe it's just me.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
I am a novice at programming and have played with various languages JavaFX Android Studio NSBasic for Palm Pilots Visual Basic 6 and VB.Net decided to try and learn C# with WinForms and VS 2019 OK "Micorsoft" and "Learn" are complete opposites incongruous who ever writes these words could not teach first grade math Still Looking for a FREE book to Learn C# with SQLite and WinForms Suggestions welcomed YES just starting my Search
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I am a novice at programming and have played with various languages JavaFX Android Studio NSBasic for Palm Pilots Visual Basic 6 and VB.Net decided to try and learn C# with WinForms and VS 2019 OK "Micorsoft" and "Learn" are complete opposites incongruous who ever writes these words could not teach first grade math Still Looking for a FREE book to Learn C# with SQLite and WinForms Suggestions welcomed YES just starting my Search
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Indeed. What is the cost, to them, of leaving that old documentation online in whatever state it was when it was last updated? It makes zero sense to remove that old stuff that no longer changes. The fact that MS no longer proactively develops anything using some older library/SDK/whatever doesn't mean nobody else does. How many useful blog entries, TechNet articles, etc have completely disappeared or can no longer be found because of dead links? Years ago I thought it was rather clever of MS to have links pointing to www.microsoft.com/fwlink?id=XXXXX because that meant any time they revamped some site, they could update any "real" target URL and keep it up to date so a page you simply know as "XXXXX" could remain accessible over time, and the dead link problem could be solved once and for all...how naive of me.
there is no cost, marketing has been in control forever. So, if they drive you to their learn crap, they can push advertising and control the content. The best support I ever received was from usenet - it had Microsoft people and 3rd party grunts to help. And Microsoft screwed the pooch. You know what I'm about to do on my own time (training exercise)? I'm going to re-write the entire Mfc UI in html5, javascript and web sockets. I don't need no stinking OS. It reminds me of what I learned in business - you don't need to be excellent, you just need to suck less than your competition.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.