Problems at work
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It appears both of your problems are related to "pointing things out". I would be pleasent and speak only when spoken to. And be very thoughtful about my answers or how I was coming off. You can simply come out and say to both you've been too paternalistic and etc. in the future. Bring donuts.
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
Good advice thanks! I think the problems are also stress related, we have a small team with way too much work and that can cause people to snap at each other, I will mention that first. However, in Dutch culture I think we are more used to being direct with criticism than in e.g. American culture, but obviously these two colleagues can not take too much criticism anymore ...
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Good advice thanks! I think the problems are also stress related, we have a small team with way too much work and that can cause people to snap at each other, I will mention that first. However, in Dutch culture I think we are more used to being direct with criticism than in e.g. American culture, but obviously these two colleagues can not take too much criticism anymore ...
And try to speak in "I" or "we" form, avoiding the "you".
RickZeeland wrote:
I think the problems are also stress related, we have a small team with way too much work and that can cause people to snap at each other
Perfectly framed. I would apologize too, if something I did or said made them feel to be critized, that it was not my intention. (Not mentioning it was to avoid a failure or to success at a particular target, because that could get again interpreted as "You made an error I had to repair"). I would say that a good work clima is important for me and that I am prepared to polish our differences. I have already use something like "we don't necessarily have to like us, only to respect us and to be able to work together in peace because we all are in the same boot and personal issues can influenciate the results of our work and hence the success of the team / company" a couple of times. It is a bit harsh, but sometimes a reality bath can make wonders.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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And try to speak in "I" or "we" form, avoiding the "you".
RickZeeland wrote:
I think the problems are also stress related, we have a small team with way too much work and that can cause people to snap at each other
Perfectly framed. I would apologize too, if something I did or said made them feel to be critized, that it was not my intention. (Not mentioning it was to avoid a failure or to success at a particular target, because that could get again interpreted as "You made an error I had to repair"). I would say that a good work clima is important for me and that I am prepared to polish our differences. I have already use something like "we don't necessarily have to like us, only to respect us and to be able to work together in peace because we all are in the same boot and personal issues can influenciate the results of our work and hence the success of the team / company" a couple of times. It is a bit harsh, but sometimes a reality bath can make wonders.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Thanks Nelek, I will take the gentle "Donut approach" first and see if that works. If it does not work, then maybe the reality bath ...
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The work relationship with two of my colleagues is getting worse, its not a beating quarrel yet, but I think its escalating. One of them, the older one, apparently still has a grudge against me because I corrected him long ago on the subject of strong naming. The younger one is now starting to ignore me and refuses to cooperate when I try to point out something to him. I know the older colleague is inciting him behind my back as my relation with the younger colleague was fine in the beginning. Does anyone has any advice how to handle situations like this? I already mailed them that I want to talk about the situation and don't want this to escalate any further.
These two may be here on CP, and reading your message. If so, they will get your message here itself.
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The work relationship with two of my colleagues is getting worse, its not a beating quarrel yet, but I think its escalating. One of them, the older one, apparently still has a grudge against me because I corrected him long ago on the subject of strong naming. The younger one is now starting to ignore me and refuses to cooperate when I try to point out something to him. I know the older colleague is inciting him behind my back as my relation with the younger colleague was fine in the beginning. Does anyone has any advice how to handle situations like this? I already mailed them that I want to talk about the situation and don't want this to escalate any further.
Makes me think about "breaking the ice" by giving some informal praise (in a smart way) to a team colleague, as this makes own position stronger and can improve the level of trust ... Building trust happens step by step, but bridge building should be recognized by the team otherwise it does not serve the purpose ... :-)
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Good advice thanks! I think the problems are also stress related, we have a small team with way too much work and that can cause people to snap at each other, I will mention that first. However, in Dutch culture I think we are more used to being direct with criticism than in e.g. American culture, but obviously these two colleagues can not take too much criticism anymore ...
RickZeeland wrote:
...than in e.g. American culture...
On both coasts and in large(er) cities, rude, critical, and judgmental are the way of business (and residential) life. We gave up respect for others a long time ago.
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
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The work relationship with two of my colleagues is getting worse, its not a beating quarrel yet, but I think its escalating. One of them, the older one, apparently still has a grudge against me because I corrected him long ago on the subject of strong naming. The younger one is now starting to ignore me and refuses to cooperate when I try to point out something to him. I know the older colleague is inciting him behind my back as my relation with the younger colleague was fine in the beginning. Does anyone has any advice how to handle situations like this? I already mailed them that I want to talk about the situation and don't want this to escalate any further.
I agree, 'subject of strong naming' is a very good thing... ... but if someone makes a religion out of it, I have a problem with that too. I have a situation vice versa, but I think comparable: I am in the process of handing everything over to my successor. Well, from my point of view, he makes a religion out of naming. He renames a large part without having the professional qualifications to do so. And it ends up being a lot of work for me to be able to explain the technical aspects further. The only thing I ask is to be able to compromise :-\ :laugh:
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These two may be here on CP, and reading your message. If so, they will get your message here itself.
I don't think they visit CodeProject, my attempts to make them enthousiastic for CP were in vain :-\
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I agree, 'subject of strong naming' is a very good thing... ... but if someone makes a religion out of it, I have a problem with that too. I have a situation vice versa, but I think comparable: I am in the process of handing everything over to my successor. Well, from my point of view, he makes a religion out of naming. He renames a large part without having the professional qualifications to do so. And it ends up being a lot of work for me to be able to explain the technical aspects further. The only thing I ask is to be able to compromise :-\ :laugh:
If you are bigger and stronger than the two, ignore them. It will eventually go away. If you are in a position to direct them, give them lots more work to keep them occupied.
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If you are bigger and stronger than the two, ignore them. It will eventually go away. If you are in a position to direct them, give them lots more work to keep them occupied.
I assume your intention was to repsond to @RickZeeland and not to me ;)
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I assume your intention was to repsond to @RickZeeland and not to me ;)
Yes. I'll be more careful next time.
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Yes. I'll be more careful next time.
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If you are bigger and stronger than the two, ignore them. It will eventually go away. If you are in a position to direct them, give them lots more work to keep them occupied.
I think the younger colleague is physically stronger, but ignoring them is probably what they would like and would eventually cause a lot of problems. They really have no clue about how things have to be built and packaged on the builder and think everything is delivered "automagically". Directing them is not an option as they clearly won't accept that from me ...
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I agree, 'subject of strong naming' is a very good thing... ... but if someone makes a religion out of it, I have a problem with that too. I have a situation vice versa, but I think comparable: I am in the process of handing everything over to my successor. Well, from my point of view, he makes a religion out of naming. He renames a large part without having the professional qualifications to do so. And it ends up being a lot of work for me to be able to explain the technical aspects further. The only thing I ask is to be able to compromise :-\ :laugh:
0x01AA wrote:
I agree, 'subject of strong naming' is a very good thing... ... but if someone makes a religion out of it, I have a problem with that too.
I was going to say just that, just how dedicated are you to strong naming? You have to choose your battles, and when you make a religion out of something that others will never agree with, then the onus is on you to adapt to "the company standard" - whatever that may be - and not the other way around. Even if you know "your way" is better. Just don't start that meeting by asking "spaces or tabs?" :-)
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0x01AA wrote:
I agree, 'subject of strong naming' is a very good thing... ... but if someone makes a religion out of it, I have a problem with that too.
I was going to say just that, just how dedicated are you to strong naming? You have to choose your battles, and when you make a religion out of something that others will never agree with, then the onus is on you to adapt to "the company standard" - whatever that may be - and not the other way around. Even if you know "your way" is better. Just don't start that meeting by asking "spaces or tabs?" :-)
I think I need to clarify what the "strong naming issue" was about, the colleague in question said to me he intended to use strong naming while the company policy was to never use strong naming. Sadly it was all a misunderstanding as he really had no idea what strong naming was, he just meant passing variables to methods with names in a certain format. When I tried to explain to him what strong naming really meant, he took that very badly.
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0x01AA wrote:
I agree, 'subject of strong naming' is a very good thing... ... but if someone makes a religion out of it, I have a problem with that too.
I was going to say just that, just how dedicated are you to strong naming? You have to choose your battles, and when you make a religion out of something that others will never agree with, then the onus is on you to adapt to "the company standard" - whatever that may be - and not the other way around. Even if you know "your way" is better. Just don't start that meeting by asking "spaces or tabs?" :-)
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I don't think they visit CodeProject, my attempts to make them enthousiastic for CP were in vain :-\
RickZeeland wrote:
my attempts to make them enthousiastic for CP were in vain
Honestly makes me suspicious about them. Why didn't they like it? Are they not interested in learning and growing? Maybe they truly aren't Growth mindset but are actually Fixed mindset. In that case it will be difficult to resolve the issues. I commend you for honestly opening up and trying. Unfortunately, some people are Fixed in their ways and don't want to be changed at all. Good luck and I hope you can work it out. :thumbsup:
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RickZeeland wrote:
my attempts to make them enthousiastic for CP were in vain
Honestly makes me suspicious about them. Why didn't they like it? Are they not interested in learning and growing? Maybe they truly aren't Growth mindset but are actually Fixed mindset. In that case it will be difficult to resolve the issues. I commend you for honestly opening up and trying. Unfortunately, some people are Fixed in their ways and don't want to be changed at all. Good luck and I hope you can work it out. :thumbsup:
Well, most developers I know have big ego's and usually I have to tip-toe around them :-\
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The work relationship with two of my colleagues is getting worse, its not a beating quarrel yet, but I think its escalating. One of them, the older one, apparently still has a grudge against me because I corrected him long ago on the subject of strong naming. The younger one is now starting to ignore me and refuses to cooperate when I try to point out something to him. I know the older colleague is inciting him behind my back as my relation with the younger colleague was fine in the beginning. Does anyone has any advice how to handle situations like this? I already mailed them that I want to talk about the situation and don't want this to escalate any further.
If you are not responsible for their performance then go limp on them, no discussion, no pointing out their errors and no responding to anything but professional and work related discussions. Become the consummate professional, totally focussed on your performance. Work places are not necessarily a social environment.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity - RAH I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
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If you are not responsible for their performance then go limp on them, no discussion, no pointing out their errors and no responding to anything but professional and work related discussions. Become the consummate professional, totally focussed on your performance. Work places are not necessarily a social environment.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity - RAH I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
Thanks for your advice, but that's not really how I want to work, but I can use it as a last resort of course ...