Python problems...
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Tab spaces should be in half-inches or centimeters, depending where you live. Not characters.
Nothing succeeds like a budgie without teeth. To err is human, to arr is pirate.
I agree, but only as an ideal as I know no IDE which can do that.
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I see no reason it wouldn't be collapsible. What IDE can't collapse it? How does your code look if you open it in another IDE/editor? Open it in Notepad for instance.
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You don't remember "Life of Brian" with the centurion who can't stop laughing at the name "Biggus Dickus". "Do you find it wisible?"
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Let’s agree to disagree :) There is a reason however why letters have a certain height to width ratio. Also paragraph indenting, in books that use it, is proportional to font size. Your artistic eye might know better than your logical brain :)
Mircea
Mircea Neacsu wrote:
There is a reason however why letters have a certain height to width ratio. Also paragraph indenting, in books that use it, is proportional to font siz
True. However English text is the not the same as programming. I read English very fast and often deliberating skip parts. Certainly I am generally oblivious to periods. But ignoring a period in programming would be a bad idea. In the editor I use the typeface is specifically not proportional. I have tried it and found it to be a very bad idea. In English text the layout of the text seldom has meaning. In programming the layout does convey information such as easily seeing blocks.
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OriginalGriff wrote:
"use tabs" to save file space
I'm quite certain that isn't the reasoning. I think some TABophiles use TABs to save keystrokes. I, of course, use two SPACEs per TAB and otherwise a whole :elephant:ing load of whitespace, vertical space in particular. I am not interested in "saving space" or "saving keystrokes" I need space so I can read the stuff. The simple IDE I developed for myself defaults to TABs because there is no reasonable number of SPACEs to use as a default instead. But what can save file space is that it right-trims SPACEs from lines when it saves a file -- that eliminates a lot more characters from saved files than using TABs.
PIEBALDconsult wrote:
I think some TABophiles use TABs to save keystrokes.
I use spacing to provide formatting. Tabs in a file, not spaces allows one to skip backwards with fewer keystrokes. Never seen that happen with pseudo spaces (tabbing but with space replacement.) Since I am also very much a touch typist auto indenting tends to be a hinderance since it tends to break my train of thought. While tabbing (space replacement or not) is fewer keystrokes to get to where I actually want to be without it.
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PIEBALDconsult wrote:
I think some TABophiles use TABs to save keystrokes.
I use spacing to provide formatting. Tabs in a file, not spaces allows one to skip backwards with fewer keystrokes. Never seen that happen with pseudo spaces (tabbing but with space replacement.) Since I am also very much a touch typist auto indenting tends to be a hinderance since it tends to break my train of thought. While tabbing (space replacement or not) is fewer keystrokes to get to where I actually want to be without it.
jschell wrote:
skip backwards with fewer keystrokes
Yes, I can see that, but it isn't that big of a deal for me, in fact I think I frequently use the mouse to do that, which is worse. Also, when using two SPACEs per indent it's less of a burden than with four.
jschell wrote:
a touch typist
I definitely am not, but coding is like writing literature, so it's OK.
jschell wrote:
auto indenting tends to be a hinderance
Unsure what you are referring to. If you mean having a new line auto-indented to the same level as the previous when you hit RETURN, I like that. With my coding format style, I have a lot of indent levels, so that saves me type.
jschell wrote:
it tends to break my train of thought
There are still things Visual Studio does which I don't like and I seem to have no control over them, and I occasionally have to UNDO (Ctrl-Z) an auto-formatting change it made. It's part of why I wrote my own simple IDE which does only what I want it to.
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You don't remember "Life of Brian" with the centurion who can't stop laughing at the name "Biggus Dickus". "Do you find it wisible?"
Oh no ... 😊 this is not my cup of tea, I’ve seen one or 2 fragments on YT a few years ago, and I found it ridiculous, beyond strange, not really interesting ... Thus risible fits here also I guess, but why “wisible”? 😊 My intuition says that this is the pronunciation from the movie - is this guess correct?
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Considering it was named after the people who gave us the Ministry of Silly Walks, Dead Parrots, and the Argument Sketch, what else would you expect?
honey the codewitch wrote:
It's risible.
Had to look that word up, which caused me to be risible.
I’ve given up trying to be calm. However, I am open to feeling slightly less agitated. I’m begging you for the benefit of everyone, don’t be STUPID.
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Mircea Neacsu wrote:
There is a reason however why letters have a certain height to width ratio. Also paragraph indenting, in books that use it, is proportional to font siz
True. However English text is the not the same as programming. I read English very fast and often deliberating skip parts. Certainly I am generally oblivious to periods. But ignoring a period in programming would be a bad idea. In the editor I use the typeface is specifically not proportional. I have tried it and found it to be a very bad idea. In English text the layout of the text seldom has meaning. In programming the layout does convey information such as easily seeing blocks.
I didn’t say the text of a program is the same as the text of a novel. What I do say however is that people writing programs could use a bit from the centuries of experience of typographers. It might be one of my (many) obsessions, but being somewhat dyslexic, I pay a lot of attention to things like font typeface, tab sizes page layout and such. When things go well, my programs are a thing of beauty in content and form. That happens rarely 🤪
Mircea
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Most editors can, but they tend to default to "use tabs" to save file space. And some only do it for modified lines, and ... it's a mess. Just don't use Python is my advice! :laugh:
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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I refer to it as "invisible source code" because that's what significant whitespace is. And it's just as stupid as it sounds. How do you debug that which you cannot see? It's risible.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
honey the codewitch wrote:
How do you debug that which you cannot see?
Casting a spell to make it visible? Using talcum powder? Asking a blind colleague to do it for you?
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Worse: space and tab are not the same: so two lines which look to be identically indented in your chosen editor can be in different code blocks as a tab is one whitespace regardless of the visual effect. X|
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
Get a better editor!
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It is scripted so it's slower than .NET code. And the UI? :~
But it gives the correct answers when you have complex variables. Dot-net can't do that.
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I didn’t say the text of a program is the same as the text of a novel. What I do say however is that people writing programs could use a bit from the centuries of experience of typographers. It might be one of my (many) obsessions, but being somewhat dyslexic, I pay a lot of attention to things like font typeface, tab sizes page layout and such. When things go well, my programs are a thing of beauty in content and form. That happens rarely 🤪
Mircea
Mircea Neacsu wrote:
I didn’t say the text of a program is the same as the text of a novel
The thread is about programming but you then said the following "in books that use it, is proportional to font size" The way I read that post suggested that there is an equivalence. As I read it. I saw nothing in the post to which you responded which would have suggested they were referring to English.
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Hi All, Being strongly encouraged (read forced) to use Python for a test rig. Okay need to get down with Kids etc. but syntactic white space 'align your tabs' (who came up with that, is it 1988, am I using a BBC micro) oh gord!!!:mad:
As an added bonus... it's also slow.
Jeremy Falcon
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As an added bonus... it's also slow.
Jeremy Falcon
'But thats not an issue with modern PCs' try running it a PC104 that a few years old...
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'But thats not an issue with modern PCs' try running it a PC104 that a few years old...
It depends on the application. If everybody thought that way, even modern PCs would run slower than they need to... which they do. There's seldom a good reason to make an use a slow language unless A: there's no other option and B: it introduces some radically new concept. People are just lazy and would rather not learn how to do things the best way, so we get crap like this.
Jeremy Falcon
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Oh no ... 😊 this is not my cup of tea, I’ve seen one or 2 fragments on YT a few years ago, and I found it ridiculous, beyond strange, not really interesting ... Thus risible fits here also I guess, but why “wisible”? 😊 My intuition says that this is the pronunciation from the movie - is this guess correct?
Correct, the Emperor has a speech defect, which the centurion finds greatly amusing.
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Most editors can, but they tend to default to "use tabs" to save file space. And some only do it for modified lines, and ... it's a mess. Just don't use Python is my advice! :laugh:
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
Any programming language that depends on formatting is fundamentally flawed by design!
"Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children the dragons can be killed." - G.K. Chesterton
