Buy or Build?
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My ten year old PC is becoming a bit flaky, and wont support Windows 11; time to replace it. The last time I purchased a store-bought PC was in 1994, and it didn't work out real well. I've built all of them since, but I'm getting older and getting the configuration just right isn't quite as fun as it used to be. If I land the job I'm currently pursuing, Manager of Generation, with an Indian tribe on a vast reservation hosting multiple mixed-source micro-grids in diverse geographical locations spread across a million acres, I anticipate doing a lot of administrative stuff, along with a bunch of graphics-intensive AutoCAD things and computation-intense electrical system simulation functions. I know we have people here who do these sorts of things - what do you recommend? Buy or Build? If Buy, what should I buy?
Will Rogers never met me.
For "field work", I can't see using a desktop or standard laptop; I'd be for a "Toughbook" with all the obscure port options, etc. Extra monitor.
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
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My ten year old PC is becoming a bit flaky, and wont support Windows 11; time to replace it. The last time I purchased a store-bought PC was in 1994, and it didn't work out real well. I've built all of them since, but I'm getting older and getting the configuration just right isn't quite as fun as it used to be. If I land the job I'm currently pursuing, Manager of Generation, with an Indian tribe on a vast reservation hosting multiple mixed-source micro-grids in diverse geographical locations spread across a million acres, I anticipate doing a lot of administrative stuff, along with a bunch of graphics-intensive AutoCAD things and computation-intense electrical system simulation functions. I know we have people here who do these sorts of things - what do you recommend? Buy or Build? If Buy, what should I buy?
Will Rogers never met me.
Roger Wright wrote:
but I'm getting older and getting the configuration just right isn't quite as fun as it used to be.
Not to mention the time it will take.
Roger Wright wrote:
I anticipate doing a lot of administrative stuff, along with a bunch of graphics-intensive AutoCAD things and computation-intense electrical system simulation functions.
Plus presumably things like sensitive data management, back ups etc. You might want to also decide who is going to own the equipment. Presumably you will move on at some point and someone else will replace you but the work product will presumably still belong to them. So if it is their equipment it makes that part of it easier. If it is their equipment then they would also be paying maintenance. With a standard maintenance support using a standard build is going to be easier. Also easier to replace it if that is needed. Additionally that still leaves you the option to build your own personal PC. You do not necessarily need to 'build' it fully of course. Either custom design it fully or by something basic and perhaps upgrade a couple of things.
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ThinkStation P360 Tiny Workstation [ISV Certifications | Think Workstations](https://www.thinkworkstations.com/isv-certifications/)
Caveat Emptor. "Progress doesn't come from early risers – progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things." Lazarus Long
After HP, Lenovo is the second one I would not buy if I have another possibility. I have had several in my hands (some of them from family / relatives to repair / configure something) and I didn't like it. They might be good machines, but I am not comfortable with them.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Roger Wright wrote:
but I'm getting older and getting the configuration just right isn't quite as fun as it used to be.
Not to mention the time it will take.
Roger Wright wrote:
I anticipate doing a lot of administrative stuff, along with a bunch of graphics-intensive AutoCAD things and computation-intense electrical system simulation functions.
Plus presumably things like sensitive data management, back ups etc. You might want to also decide who is going to own the equipment. Presumably you will move on at some point and someone else will replace you but the work product will presumably still belong to them. So if it is their equipment it makes that part of it easier. If it is their equipment then they would also be paying maintenance. With a standard maintenance support using a standard build is going to be easier. Also easier to replace it if that is needed. Additionally that still leaves you the option to build your own personal PC. You do not necessarily need to 'build' it fully of course. Either custom design it fully or by something basic and perhaps upgrade a couple of things.
jschell wrote:
If it is their equipment then they would also be paying maintenance. With a standard maintenance support using a standard build is going to be easier. Also easier to replace it if that is needed.
Good point. I have had several brands during the years and the best "gold" support in my experience was the one from DELL, sadly I am using HP due to company policy since 2015.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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My ten year old PC is becoming a bit flaky, and wont support Windows 11; time to replace it. The last time I purchased a store-bought PC was in 1994, and it didn't work out real well. I've built all of them since, but I'm getting older and getting the configuration just right isn't quite as fun as it used to be. If I land the job I'm currently pursuing, Manager of Generation, with an Indian tribe on a vast reservation hosting multiple mixed-source micro-grids in diverse geographical locations spread across a million acres, I anticipate doing a lot of administrative stuff, along with a bunch of graphics-intensive AutoCAD things and computation-intense electrical system simulation functions. I know we have people here who do these sorts of things - what do you recommend? Buy or Build? If Buy, what should I buy?
Will Rogers never met me.
You first need to decide whether you want a desktop machine or a laptop. If all your work will be done in one place then a desktop be OK but how likely is that really? I use a lot machines that are classified as "gaming laptops" and they work really well for me. I like 17-inch displays because the pixel density is better for old eyes like mine. The main things that makes them a "gaming laptop" are fast displays and a good GPU. The CPUs are usually pretty good in them also. After I broke my last laptop I bought a new one and it's a pretty good machine. It's an Aorus which is made by Gigabyte. At work we have dozens of MSI gaming laptops and they work really well for us. I would highly recommend both of those brands. You could always get a decent-sized monitor to use with it if you want a bigger display and LCD monitors are reasonably portable. With a mid to higher end laptop there is very, very little they can not do. I also do CUDA programming so I get them with Nvidia GPUs and they are quite capable. I have a 3080 GPU in my work and home laptops and it is very nice. 3D graphics are no problem at all for them. The last desktop machine I bought was pre-built because GPU prices were obscene when I got it. It was like I bought a GPU and they threw a computer in on the deal. I would probably not advocate for a desktop machine though because it really limits your mobility for no good reason that I can think of since laptops are so capable these days. Incidentally, with the nature of our work, we find the lighted keyboards to be really, really useful. I wouldn't want a machine without one now.
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
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I've got a nice laptop, but I detest them. They're useful for connecting to relays in the field, though...
Will Rogers never met me.
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Roger, I'm 74 and just build a PC last year. Go to Custom PC Builder | Newegg[^]. They will match the pieces for you and it is easier to assemble as it used to be. Never to old my friend! Good luck on the new gig.
Give me coffee to change the things I can and wine for those I can not! PartsBin an Electronics Part Organizer - An updated version available! JaxCoder.com Latest Article: Simon Says, A Child's Game
Thanks for the suggestion, Mike! I buy all my components from them, but I've never tried the Builder. I'll check it out!
Will Rogers never met me.
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The age-old question... What do you value more, your time or your money? If it were me, I haven't used a desktop in a looooooong time. You can get gaming laptops now that are beefy enough to do most things. Ironically, I wouldn't use one for gaming, but for photoshop, CAD, etc. they do great. Just buy one and be done with it. Can't say which brand I'd recommend, but I can say don't get a Gigabyte Aero laptop. It's always been wonky for me and the vents make it so you can't close the lid while using it. If you used to build PCs for years back in the day and you want to go desktop, not much has changed. Really. Sure, instead of IDE or SATA drives you go NVMe, etc. these days. But, the basic principles are still the same, except for some reason everything comes with LED lights now. :laugh: If you've never really got into the building part then just buy one. But, as nerds, we all know you'll never get the exact bang for your buck or configuration you _really_ want with a prebuilt one. But, if you know you're about to get the job, then just buying one will free up some time to help prep for the job. Only person that can say which is most important or how much time you got is you man. Anywho, unless you're a gamer ironically, getting a gaming laptop is plenty powerful enough to do your work.
Jeremy Falcon
I get the point, Jeremy - I'm cramming and jamming to become an expert on microgrids with solar and diesel generation installed at a remote location. Time is rather precious right now.
Will Rogers never met me.
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I hand built my system. It's a lot more difficult than it used to be. Check the specs on everything to make sure for example, that your ram clears your cpu cooler, and your coolers fit in your case, that kind of thing. Also power and heat. Systems are pushing thermal limits these days, so it's not uncommon to find even commercial PCs running on liquid now. Mine is an air cooled system - maybe the last air cooled desktop I'll own for the foreseeable future. I had to downgrade from my target CPU and I played it safe and got a 4080 instead of a 4090 GPU. I also dumped a ton of money on Noctua fans and slaved over my cooling situation until it was all as perfect as I could get it. I'm happy with the machine but I never want to do this again.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
That's the fun part! I check and double check everything - even though ATX is supposed to be a standard, not every manufacturer obeys it. I buy cases that have more fan mounting locations than the motherboard can support. I buy motherboards that have more RAM slots than I expect to need. I get a better CPU than anything I run really needs. Overkill is always the order of the day. Recently I had to do some upgrades; I installed a new monitor after breaking an old one ( never attempt to re-assemble a Colt .45 ACP Model 1911 whilst sitting in front of the display ) when a spring-driven part went through it. I wish I'd taken a picture of the quite colorful but useless display afterwards, and had Hunter Biden sell it for me. Anyway, the new display whined constantly about having the wrong resolution set, so I upgraded the video card to one that can handle it. Turns out that my PC can't handle that much data flow, and I have to reduce the setting for it to function at all. Curiously, this card doesn't have an integral fan, and doesn't need one! It works great without extra cooling! I might even keep this one as a file server and build something new. I actually enjoy it, but the learning curve on this job is huge. I've read thousands of pages of equipment manuals during the past week, pored over site plans and design documents, and just acquired today another 15 - 20 thick documents I haven't even unzipped yet. Time is becoming precious - just a trip to the jobsite is a four-hour round trip. I've not heard of Noctua fans; why do you prefer them?
Will Rogers never met me.
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ThinkStation P360 Tiny Workstation [ISV Certifications | Think Workstations](https://www.thinkworkstations.com/isv-certifications/)
Caveat Emptor. "Progress doesn't come from early risers – progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things." Lazarus Long
I'll look into it, though I have never liked Lenovo since IBM spun it off.
Will Rogers never met me.
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Roger Wright wrote:
but I'm getting older and getting the configuration just right isn't quite as fun as it used to be.
Not to mention the time it will take.
Roger Wright wrote:
I anticipate doing a lot of administrative stuff, along with a bunch of graphics-intensive AutoCAD things and computation-intense electrical system simulation functions.
Plus presumably things like sensitive data management, back ups etc. You might want to also decide who is going to own the equipment. Presumably you will move on at some point and someone else will replace you but the work product will presumably still belong to them. So if it is their equipment it makes that part of it easier. If it is their equipment then they would also be paying maintenance. With a standard maintenance support using a standard build is going to be easier. Also easier to replace it if that is needed. Additionally that still leaves you the option to build your own personal PC. You do not necessarily need to 'build' it fully of course. Either custom design it fully or by something basic and perhaps upgrade a couple of things.
Good points, all. But this will be "my" computer; I will do company things with it, but that will be kept isolated from my stuff. Heck, they haven't even designated a place for my office, and when they do I'll get equipment that's to their standards, if they have any. These good people are really in the infancy of creating a real utility, and I'm hoping to help them to build it into something that will serve their tribe for decades. If they have no standards in place, I'll help them to create them.
Will Rogers never met me.
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You first need to decide whether you want a desktop machine or a laptop. If all your work will be done in one place then a desktop be OK but how likely is that really? I use a lot machines that are classified as "gaming laptops" and they work really well for me. I like 17-inch displays because the pixel density is better for old eyes like mine. The main things that makes them a "gaming laptop" are fast displays and a good GPU. The CPUs are usually pretty good in them also. After I broke my last laptop I bought a new one and it's a pretty good machine. It's an Aorus which is made by Gigabyte. At work we have dozens of MSI gaming laptops and they work really well for us. I would highly recommend both of those brands. You could always get a decent-sized monitor to use with it if you want a bigger display and LCD monitors are reasonably portable. With a mid to higher end laptop there is very, very little they can not do. I also do CUDA programming so I get them with Nvidia GPUs and they are quite capable. I have a 3080 GPU in my work and home laptops and it is very nice. 3D graphics are no problem at all for them. The last desktop machine I bought was pre-built because GPU prices were obscene when I got it. It was like I bought a GPU and they threw a computer in on the deal. I would probably not advocate for a desktop machine though because it really limits your mobility for no good reason that I can think of since laptops are so capable these days. Incidentally, with the nature of our work, we find the lighted keyboards to be really, really useful. I wouldn't want a machine without one now.
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
This is going to be a replacement for my home PC, so it's going to be a desktop. But I do have a decent laptop for use when travelling, and I'm not opposed to upgrading that, either. Our own Honey the Codewitch turned me on the Daskeyboard series lighted keyboards, btw, and I love the thing. I will definitely be getting another when I buy/build the next machine!
Will Rogers never met me.
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I get the point, Jeremy - I'm cramming and jamming to become an expert on microgrids with solar and diesel generation installed at a remote location. Time is rather precious right now.
Will Rogers never met me.
Noice. Here’s to rocking the gig and bringing the awesome. :beer:
Jeremy Falcon
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That's the fun part! I check and double check everything - even though ATX is supposed to be a standard, not every manufacturer obeys it. I buy cases that have more fan mounting locations than the motherboard can support. I buy motherboards that have more RAM slots than I expect to need. I get a better CPU than anything I run really needs. Overkill is always the order of the day. Recently I had to do some upgrades; I installed a new monitor after breaking an old one ( never attempt to re-assemble a Colt .45 ACP Model 1911 whilst sitting in front of the display ) when a spring-driven part went through it. I wish I'd taken a picture of the quite colorful but useless display afterwards, and had Hunter Biden sell it for me. Anyway, the new display whined constantly about having the wrong resolution set, so I upgraded the video card to one that can handle it. Turns out that my PC can't handle that much data flow, and I have to reduce the setting for it to function at all. Curiously, this card doesn't have an integral fan, and doesn't need one! It works great without extra cooling! I might even keep this one as a file server and build something new. I actually enjoy it, but the learning curve on this job is huge. I've read thousands of pages of equipment manuals during the past week, pored over site plans and design documents, and just acquired today another 15 - 20 thick documents I haven't even unzipped yet. Time is becoming precious - just a trip to the jobsite is a four-hour round trip. I've not heard of Noctua fans; why do you prefer them?
Will Rogers never met me.
Noctua fans are very quiet, move a lot of air per noise/RPM, and last forever. They are overengineered monsters. I don't know a single person that has them that doesn't love them. The only downside is they can get spendy, but it's one of those products where you'll be reminded of where the money went.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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Thanks for the suggestion, Mike! I buy all my components from them, but I've never tried the Builder. I'll check it out!
Will Rogers never met me.
I've been building my own since the late 90's, since I cannot get a pre-built unit that has everything I want at a price I'm willing to pay. I built my current desktop a year ago January, and spent 3 months researching before buying. It's not like the 90's where the CPU choice was Intel or AMD, and then pick speed. There are dozens of CPUs, and figuring out which to buy can push one towards insanity. For that reason, try the builder since you have nothing to lose. Crypto mining pushed up demand for GPU, and with that the prices. You'll spend far more than you expect on a decent GPU, but in the end you'll be unhappy if you don't.
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My ten year old PC is becoming a bit flaky, and wont support Windows 11; time to replace it. The last time I purchased a store-bought PC was in 1994, and it didn't work out real well. I've built all of them since, but I'm getting older and getting the configuration just right isn't quite as fun as it used to be. If I land the job I'm currently pursuing, Manager of Generation, with an Indian tribe on a vast reservation hosting multiple mixed-source micro-grids in diverse geographical locations spread across a million acres, I anticipate doing a lot of administrative stuff, along with a bunch of graphics-intensive AutoCAD things and computation-intense electrical system simulation functions. I know we have people here who do these sorts of things - what do you recommend? Buy or Build? If Buy, what should I buy?
Will Rogers never met me.
build all the way.... I have seen so many shortcuts made by Dell, HP, etc I swore never again. The machine I built 10 years ago is still thundering along in my daughter's bedroom. Glancing to my left at my Ryzen 9 desktop server, it's been thundering along on Windows 10 for 4+ years and has never crashed once. Since I suspect you are not building a gaming rig, you just need a good chassis, SSDs, a good power supply and a motherboard perhaps with a built in graphics chip, though I would argue for a standalone.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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My ten year old PC is becoming a bit flaky, and wont support Windows 11; time to replace it. The last time I purchased a store-bought PC was in 1994, and it didn't work out real well. I've built all of them since, but I'm getting older and getting the configuration just right isn't quite as fun as it used to be. If I land the job I'm currently pursuing, Manager of Generation, with an Indian tribe on a vast reservation hosting multiple mixed-source micro-grids in diverse geographical locations spread across a million acres, I anticipate doing a lot of administrative stuff, along with a bunch of graphics-intensive AutoCAD things and computation-intense electrical system simulation functions. I know we have people here who do these sorts of things - what do you recommend? Buy or Build? If Buy, what should I buy?
Will Rogers never met me.
Here's a system I configured about a month ago. Has 2 options for the processor depending upon what you want to spend. I bought the nVidia 4070 (non ti, saved about $200) video card and have been pretty happy with it. Pick your case (I'm a fan of the Corsair cases as their no fuss water cooling works great with them). https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/Y1P0391S75HS/ref=nav_wishlist_lists_2[^]
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After HP, Lenovo is the second one I would not buy if I have another possibility. I have had several in my hands (some of them from family / relatives to repair / configure something) and I didn't like it. They might be good machines, but I am not comfortable with them.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Nelek wrote:
Lenovo is the second one I would not buy
My current system is a 3 y/o lenovo ideacenter tower that I bought on impulse off the shelf locally. I was really disappointed when I pulled the cover...very little room for upgrades/expansion as there are only 2 SATA headers and memory maxes out at 2x8GB! :sigh: The spinner was swapped for SSD immediately and fresh Win10 pro installed. While the system generally performs OK, it starts getting sluggish when available memory drops below 2GB. Debugging some ASP.Net apps is excruciating as it may take up to 10 minutes to startup from a simple edit! (and of course Edit and Continue almost never works, so stop, edit, start, and wait for another 10 minutes! :mad: (sometimes I miss the simplicity of classic ASP!) :laugh: I'm already in the mindset of replacing it now, and leaning towards the build camp after this last experience.
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse "Hope is contagious"
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My ten year old PC is becoming a bit flaky, and wont support Windows 11; time to replace it. The last time I purchased a store-bought PC was in 1994, and it didn't work out real well. I've built all of them since, but I'm getting older and getting the configuration just right isn't quite as fun as it used to be. If I land the job I'm currently pursuing, Manager of Generation, with an Indian tribe on a vast reservation hosting multiple mixed-source micro-grids in diverse geographical locations spread across a million acres, I anticipate doing a lot of administrative stuff, along with a bunch of graphics-intensive AutoCAD things and computation-intense electrical system simulation functions. I know we have people here who do these sorts of things - what do you recommend? Buy or Build? If Buy, what should I buy?
Will Rogers never met me.
I used to always build, but on my last machine, I decided to go with a good custom builder. I don't know what country you're in, so I'm not sure what would apply to you, but this is the route I'll probably go next time too (I went with, and would use again, WootWare - wootware.co.za) I won't buy some off-the-shelf junk - companies tend to stuff them with the lowest-spec'd rubbish they can get away with at a price-point, or put totally mediocre hardware in the box and charge $arm + $leg for it (GamersNexus videos cover _a lot_ of these charlatans!). I'd suggest finding a local company which builds based on "loose" specs and which has a good reputation for service, so if something goes wrong during shipping or something fails in the machine, they will help with RMA'ing things. For reference, I spec'd the following for my machine: - latest-gen i9 (11th at the time - 12th came out a month or 2 later... but I couldn't really wait) - 64Gb RAM - board supporting the above, with Wifi & Bluetooth support, either on the board or on a daughter board (ended up going that way) - Liquid cooling - Minimal lighting (but I ended up with more than I originally anticipated, and I kinda like it) - Chose a case that I like, looks-wise and rated online as tough and easy to work with (Phanteks Ethoo EVOLV) - Originally kept my GPU, but then bought a GPU from them - it's a minor installation - One NVME drive, if the overall cost fell within my budget (which it did) Whilst they did suggest an AMD machine for a slightly lower cost, they also didn't shove it down my throat, and respected me when I declined (a good friend of mine had been having an uncommon issue with his AMD that I was afraid I'd have, and I didn't feel like enduring the RMA cycle for a minor price difference - about 1.5% on the entire system) What I got - 11th gen i9 11900KF (can push the clocks - which I'm not - but no igpu - which I don't need) - 64Gb 3600mhx ram (2x32) - Gigabyte Z590 Aorus Elite - Fractal design cooler - The Phanteks case I wanted - Sabrent rocket nvme (which I wouldn't recommend, tbh - tends to overheat in a pcie-4 slot, though the Windows drivers just slow the drive down when it's heating up, so you won't notice in Windows - just the drive will get slow; but under Linux, the drive goes offline...) - later, a Gigabyte Aorus 3070 The experience was great - I had the fun of picking out what I wanted, with the safety of not having to double-check that I hadn't picked anything incompatible. I then got a beautiful, powerful
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My ten year old PC is becoming a bit flaky, and wont support Windows 11; time to replace it. The last time I purchased a store-bought PC was in 1994, and it didn't work out real well. I've built all of them since, but I'm getting older and getting the configuration just right isn't quite as fun as it used to be. If I land the job I'm currently pursuing, Manager of Generation, with an Indian tribe on a vast reservation hosting multiple mixed-source micro-grids in diverse geographical locations spread across a million acres, I anticipate doing a lot of administrative stuff, along with a bunch of graphics-intensive AutoCAD things and computation-intense electrical system simulation functions. I know we have people here who do these sorts of things - what do you recommend? Buy or Build? If Buy, what should I buy?
Will Rogers never met me.
I pretty much always build my own these days. I like being able to control all aspects of the build. About the only time I didn't building my own was when I got an Amiga (loved that machine). Unfortunately, Commadore was run by a bunch of morons so the Amiga didn't survive. In any case, building computers now is much easier than when I built my first computer back in 1978!
