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  3. Anyone else as sick of InstallShield and their bugs as I am?

Anyone else as sick of InstallShield and their bugs as I am?

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  • M Member 96

    Caution: full on rant coming... For what must be at least the thousandth time in the last three years (no exageration), I come across a major problem in my setup I built with InstallShield (when my setup upgrades an older version, all the shortcuts are removed) and after much wasted time tracking it down discover that it's a major bug in a major feature of InstallShield Developer that is now over 8 months old and still not resolved. http://support.installshield.com/kb/view.asp?articleid=q107649[^] In fact, they even carried over this bug into their new release and still did not fix it! This is just gettting ridiculous, we paid for the premium developer version and I've wasted more time than I really want to remember working around nearly every feature in the program. Every new release is like going into battle. We expect it now and have to allot 3 extra days at minimum just to build and test the setup which isn't re-written from scratch, but is the same one we've been using for years and need to keep tweaking to get it to work. They are probably one of the few companies left that in many cases, still insist you must pay for an upgrade to fix bugs that they introduced in the last version. And it appears I can't even discuss this with them without having a credit card handy for support!@!@#$@# I can understand why it's gone on so long: those bugs and the Byzantine features in InstallShield provide a lot of job security for a lot of people. I, however, own my own company and don't have the time or money to support their foolishness anymore, can anyone suggest a good installation product with scripting like InstallShield has for out of the ordinary requirements? ------------

    J Offline
    J Offline
    Jim Crafton
    wrote on last edited by
    #3

    Inno Setup has scripting to it with a special adding. The scripting language is Pascal based, easy to use, and appears pretty funtional. Inno Setup is free. Theres a GUI tool for making the setup programs as well. http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php[^] http://www.istool.org/[^] For the Inno Extensions: http://www.wintax.nl/isx/[^] ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)!

    J M J L 4 Replies Last reply
    0
    • M Member 96

      Caution: full on rant coming... For what must be at least the thousandth time in the last three years (no exageration), I come across a major problem in my setup I built with InstallShield (when my setup upgrades an older version, all the shortcuts are removed) and after much wasted time tracking it down discover that it's a major bug in a major feature of InstallShield Developer that is now over 8 months old and still not resolved. http://support.installshield.com/kb/view.asp?articleid=q107649[^] In fact, they even carried over this bug into their new release and still did not fix it! This is just gettting ridiculous, we paid for the premium developer version and I've wasted more time than I really want to remember working around nearly every feature in the program. Every new release is like going into battle. We expect it now and have to allot 3 extra days at minimum just to build and test the setup which isn't re-written from scratch, but is the same one we've been using for years and need to keep tweaking to get it to work. They are probably one of the few companies left that in many cases, still insist you must pay for an upgrade to fix bugs that they introduced in the last version. And it appears I can't even discuss this with them without having a credit card handy for support!@!@#$@# I can understand why it's gone on so long: those bugs and the Byzantine features in InstallShield provide a lot of job security for a lot of people. I, however, own my own company and don't have the time or money to support their foolishness anymore, can anyone suggest a good installation product with scripting like InstallShield has for out of the ordinary requirements? ------------

      J Offline
      J Offline
      John Honan
      wrote on last edited by
      #4

      Like Jim, I would also recommend Inno Setup. Works great for me, and does everything I want (including DAO/ADO/mdac_typ installations, and VB and Crystal Reports DLL setup scripts) John www.silveronion.com[^]

      M 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • J John Honan

        Like Jim, I would also recommend Inno Setup. Works great for me, and does everything I want (including DAO/ADO/mdac_typ installations, and VB and Crystal Reports DLL setup scripts) John www.silveronion.com[^]

        M Offline
        M Offline
        Member 96
        wrote on last edited by
        #5

        Hmmm...I used to use it all the time, but it became too limited for us and I had to move on. However I do the same exact things in setup Crystal, ADO, mdac (just not the VB) so it might work now, I'll take a look at it again, thanks. ------------

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • M Member 96

          Caution: full on rant coming... For what must be at least the thousandth time in the last three years (no exageration), I come across a major problem in my setup I built with InstallShield (when my setup upgrades an older version, all the shortcuts are removed) and after much wasted time tracking it down discover that it's a major bug in a major feature of InstallShield Developer that is now over 8 months old and still not resolved. http://support.installshield.com/kb/view.asp?articleid=q107649[^] In fact, they even carried over this bug into their new release and still did not fix it! This is just gettting ridiculous, we paid for the premium developer version and I've wasted more time than I really want to remember working around nearly every feature in the program. Every new release is like going into battle. We expect it now and have to allot 3 extra days at minimum just to build and test the setup which isn't re-written from scratch, but is the same one we've been using for years and need to keep tweaking to get it to work. They are probably one of the few companies left that in many cases, still insist you must pay for an upgrade to fix bugs that they introduced in the last version. And it appears I can't even discuss this with them without having a credit card handy for support!@!@#$@# I can understand why it's gone on so long: those bugs and the Byzantine features in InstallShield provide a lot of job security for a lot of people. I, however, own my own company and don't have the time or money to support their foolishness anymore, can anyone suggest a good installation product with scripting like InstallShield has for out of the ordinary requirements? ------------

          C Offline
          C Offline
          Chris Maunder
          wrote on last edited by
          #6

          I think we've hit rant factor 5. She canno' do 'er, Captain! cheers, Chris Maunder

          M 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • M Member 96

            Caution: full on rant coming... For what must be at least the thousandth time in the last three years (no exageration), I come across a major problem in my setup I built with InstallShield (when my setup upgrades an older version, all the shortcuts are removed) and after much wasted time tracking it down discover that it's a major bug in a major feature of InstallShield Developer that is now over 8 months old and still not resolved. http://support.installshield.com/kb/view.asp?articleid=q107649[^] In fact, they even carried over this bug into their new release and still did not fix it! This is just gettting ridiculous, we paid for the premium developer version and I've wasted more time than I really want to remember working around nearly every feature in the program. Every new release is like going into battle. We expect it now and have to allot 3 extra days at minimum just to build and test the setup which isn't re-written from scratch, but is the same one we've been using for years and need to keep tweaking to get it to work. They are probably one of the few companies left that in many cases, still insist you must pay for an upgrade to fix bugs that they introduced in the last version. And it appears I can't even discuss this with them without having a credit card handy for support!@!@#$@# I can understand why it's gone on so long: those bugs and the Byzantine features in InstallShield provide a lot of job security for a lot of people. I, however, own my own company and don't have the time or money to support their foolishness anymore, can anyone suggest a good installation product with scripting like InstallShield has for out of the ordinary requirements? ------------

            N Offline
            N Offline
            nssone
            wrote on last edited by
            #7

            I don't use the Full InstallShield prog, but I use Express and I haven't had any problems with it. Of course, the stuff I'm working on isn't too complicated. <--Signature begins here--> I am... Currently: A Programming Student/Intern. Working on an outside project: A game for the GamePark32 (GP32) portable gaming console. www.gamepark.co.kr Wishing to better learn: Graphical programming with C++. P.S. I'm not good with HTML, so don't expect something fancy in my Sigs. I'm working on it though, OK?

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • M Member 96

              Caution: full on rant coming... For what must be at least the thousandth time in the last three years (no exageration), I come across a major problem in my setup I built with InstallShield (when my setup upgrades an older version, all the shortcuts are removed) and after much wasted time tracking it down discover that it's a major bug in a major feature of InstallShield Developer that is now over 8 months old and still not resolved. http://support.installshield.com/kb/view.asp?articleid=q107649[^] In fact, they even carried over this bug into their new release and still did not fix it! This is just gettting ridiculous, we paid for the premium developer version and I've wasted more time than I really want to remember working around nearly every feature in the program. Every new release is like going into battle. We expect it now and have to allot 3 extra days at minimum just to build and test the setup which isn't re-written from scratch, but is the same one we've been using for years and need to keep tweaking to get it to work. They are probably one of the few companies left that in many cases, still insist you must pay for an upgrade to fix bugs that they introduced in the last version. And it appears I can't even discuss this with them without having a credit card handy for support!@!@#$@# I can understand why it's gone on so long: those bugs and the Byzantine features in InstallShield provide a lot of job security for a lot of people. I, however, own my own company and don't have the time or money to support their foolishness anymore, can anyone suggest a good installation product with scripting like InstallShield has for out of the ordinary requirements? ------------

              P Offline
              P Offline
              peterchen
              wrote on last edited by
              #8

              oh... but that's nothing new I guess :-O Well, I'm on InstallShield 6.3, and won't upgrade :cool: Mostly, it's the sheer complexity and unintuitiveness. How many thingies to click to add a file to a setup, if it should go into a different directory?? And a design complaint - the complex scripting actually tempts people to move functionality to the installation that is better left to the application. Support for incremental installs was meager at least up to and including 6.x (read: a kludgy workaround, that turned the "uninstall what I installed" into a nightmare) Inflexibility! There are some predefined dialog templates that allow some custom messages - but that these messages could be a little bit wider than 80 pixels? No sir. SELF EXTRACTING ARCHIVES!!!! AAARGGGGHHHHH!!!! :mad: :eek: :mad: OK... Create a single-EXE-Install, and try to install it: "Reading Contents of Archive" - seems to touch every byte, to count them. Well, ok. Then.. "Extracting Archive" - :wtf:, didn't you just touch all the bytes? Try this with 300+MB archive. YUCK! OK.. now, after two blue bars we got it... NAY!!! Starting up Installshield engine!! (related note: try the following quad-click an 6.x installation, so it starts two instances. The error message THE END USER gets at this point is an insult to usability) It takes AGES before you're at the first screen! *takes his pills* Concluding, if this is a high quality product, Michelle Pfeiffer does my dishes.


              "Der Geist des Kriegers ist erwacht / Ich hab die Macht" StS
              sighist | Agile Programming | doxygen

              M S 2 Replies Last reply
              0
              • C Chris Maunder

                I think we've hit rant factor 5. She canno' do 'er, Captain! cheers, Chris Maunder

                M Offline
                M Offline
                Member 96
                wrote on last edited by
                #9

                If you think that was a rant, you should see what I emailed to InstallShield!:-D ------------

                P 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • P peterchen

                  oh... but that's nothing new I guess :-O Well, I'm on InstallShield 6.3, and won't upgrade :cool: Mostly, it's the sheer complexity and unintuitiveness. How many thingies to click to add a file to a setup, if it should go into a different directory?? And a design complaint - the complex scripting actually tempts people to move functionality to the installation that is better left to the application. Support for incremental installs was meager at least up to and including 6.x (read: a kludgy workaround, that turned the "uninstall what I installed" into a nightmare) Inflexibility! There are some predefined dialog templates that allow some custom messages - but that these messages could be a little bit wider than 80 pixels? No sir. SELF EXTRACTING ARCHIVES!!!! AAARGGGGHHHHH!!!! :mad: :eek: :mad: OK... Create a single-EXE-Install, and try to install it: "Reading Contents of Archive" - seems to touch every byte, to count them. Well, ok. Then.. "Extracting Archive" - :wtf:, didn't you just touch all the bytes? Try this with 300+MB archive. YUCK! OK.. now, after two blue bars we got it... NAY!!! Starting up Installshield engine!! (related note: try the following quad-click an 6.x installation, so it starts two instances. The error message THE END USER gets at this point is an insult to usability) It takes AGES before you're at the first screen! *takes his pills* Concluding, if this is a high quality product, Michelle Pfeiffer does my dishes.


                  "Der Geist des Kriegers ist erwacht / Ich hab die Macht" StS
                  sighist | Agile Programming | doxygen

                  M Offline
                  M Offline
                  Member 96
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #10

                  peterchen wrote: *takes his pills* Concluding, if this is a high quality product, Michelle Pfeiffer does my dishes. Hey? There are pills? Give me some! ------------

                  P 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • M Member 96

                    Caution: full on rant coming... For what must be at least the thousandth time in the last three years (no exageration), I come across a major problem in my setup I built with InstallShield (when my setup upgrades an older version, all the shortcuts are removed) and after much wasted time tracking it down discover that it's a major bug in a major feature of InstallShield Developer that is now over 8 months old and still not resolved. http://support.installshield.com/kb/view.asp?articleid=q107649[^] In fact, they even carried over this bug into their new release and still did not fix it! This is just gettting ridiculous, we paid for the premium developer version and I've wasted more time than I really want to remember working around nearly every feature in the program. Every new release is like going into battle. We expect it now and have to allot 3 extra days at minimum just to build and test the setup which isn't re-written from scratch, but is the same one we've been using for years and need to keep tweaking to get it to work. They are probably one of the few companies left that in many cases, still insist you must pay for an upgrade to fix bugs that they introduced in the last version. And it appears I can't even discuss this with them without having a credit card handy for support!@!@#$@# I can understand why it's gone on so long: those bugs and the Byzantine features in InstallShield provide a lot of job security for a lot of people. I, however, own my own company and don't have the time or money to support their foolishness anymore, can anyone suggest a good installation product with scripting like InstallShield has for out of the ordinary requirements? ------------

                    J Offline
                    J Offline
                    jspano
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #11

                    Our full time install shield guy left us. When he went to another company, they made him use Wise. He says now that he will never go back. No problems and very easy to use.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • M Member 96

                      If you think that was a rant, you should see what I emailed to InstallShield!:-D ------------

                      P Offline
                      P Offline
                      peterchen
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #12

                      may I? :cool:


                      "Der Geist des Kriegers ist erwacht / Ich hab die Macht" StS
                      sighist | Agile Programming | doxygen

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • J Jim Crafton

                        Inno Setup has scripting to it with a special adding. The scripting language is Pascal based, easy to use, and appears pretty funtional. Inno Setup is free. Theres a GUI tool for making the setup programs as well. http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php[^] http://www.istool.org/[^] For the Inno Extensions: http://www.wintax.nl/isx/[^] ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)!

                        J Offline
                        J Offline
                        Jamie Nordmeyer
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #13

                        You beat me to it! :) In addition to all the features already available, you can write a .dll file for any additional features needed. Kyosa Jamie Nordmeyer - Cho Dan Portland, Oregon, USA

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • M Member 96

                          peterchen wrote: *takes his pills* Concluding, if this is a high quality product, Michelle Pfeiffer does my dishes. Hey? There are pills? Give me some! ------------

                          P Offline
                          P Offline
                          peterchen
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #14

                          John Cardinal wrote: Hey? There are pills? Give me some! red, blue, I took both. They'll only help with Installshield, though. Neither the Michelle Pfeiffer thing nor the dishes issue will change...


                          "Der Geist des Kriegers ist erwacht / Ich hab die Macht" StS
                          sighist | Agile Programming | doxygen

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • M Member 96

                            Caution: full on rant coming... For what must be at least the thousandth time in the last three years (no exageration), I come across a major problem in my setup I built with InstallShield (when my setup upgrades an older version, all the shortcuts are removed) and after much wasted time tracking it down discover that it's a major bug in a major feature of InstallShield Developer that is now over 8 months old and still not resolved. http://support.installshield.com/kb/view.asp?articleid=q107649[^] In fact, they even carried over this bug into their new release and still did not fix it! This is just gettting ridiculous, we paid for the premium developer version and I've wasted more time than I really want to remember working around nearly every feature in the program. Every new release is like going into battle. We expect it now and have to allot 3 extra days at minimum just to build and test the setup which isn't re-written from scratch, but is the same one we've been using for years and need to keep tweaking to get it to work. They are probably one of the few companies left that in many cases, still insist you must pay for an upgrade to fix bugs that they introduced in the last version. And it appears I can't even discuss this with them without having a credit card handy for support!@!@#$@# I can understand why it's gone on so long: those bugs and the Byzantine features in InstallShield provide a lot of job security for a lot of people. I, however, own my own company and don't have the time or money to support their foolishness anymore, can anyone suggest a good installation product with scripting like InstallShield has for out of the ordinary requirements? ------------

                            M Offline
                            M Offline
                            Marc Clifton
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #15

                            I've been using Install Shield version 5.1 for years and haven't upgraded ever because I hear the newer versions are even worse. 5.1 crashes when you use the downarrow key to scroll past the end of the script file. It occasionally loses the split view, and there's no way to get it back besides deleting a bunch of settings out of the registry (it took a whole day to figure that out and now it's in my "How To Fix Strange Things" file). I hate it, but they all seem like crap. The install utility that comes with VS doesn't even create shortcut parameters, even though it says it does! I'll have to check out Inno Setup. Marc Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
                            A doable project is one that is small enough to be done quickly and big enough to be interesting - Ken Orr
                            CPP Script Framework Design Page Latest AAL Article

                            M 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • M Marc Clifton

                              I've been using Install Shield version 5.1 for years and haven't upgraded ever because I hear the newer versions are even worse. 5.1 crashes when you use the downarrow key to scroll past the end of the script file. It occasionally loses the split view, and there's no way to get it back besides deleting a bunch of settings out of the registry (it took a whole day to figure that out and now it's in my "How To Fix Strange Things" file). I hate it, but they all seem like crap. The install utility that comes with VS doesn't even create shortcut parameters, even though it says it does! I'll have to check out Inno Setup. Marc Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
                              A doable project is one that is small enough to be done quickly and big enough to be interesting - Ken Orr
                              CPP Script Framework Design Page Latest AAL Article

                              M Offline
                              M Offline
                              Member 96
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #16

                              Inno setup used to be excellent and very good support / user groups. I haven't used it in years, but we used to use it for everything and sent in a "donation" to Jordan as well. We had outgrown it at one point, but from the sounds of it, it's been upgraded considerably since then. ------------

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • M Member 96

                                Caution: full on rant coming... For what must be at least the thousandth time in the last three years (no exageration), I come across a major problem in my setup I built with InstallShield (when my setup upgrades an older version, all the shortcuts are removed) and after much wasted time tracking it down discover that it's a major bug in a major feature of InstallShield Developer that is now over 8 months old and still not resolved. http://support.installshield.com/kb/view.asp?articleid=q107649[^] In fact, they even carried over this bug into their new release and still did not fix it! This is just gettting ridiculous, we paid for the premium developer version and I've wasted more time than I really want to remember working around nearly every feature in the program. Every new release is like going into battle. We expect it now and have to allot 3 extra days at minimum just to build and test the setup which isn't re-written from scratch, but is the same one we've been using for years and need to keep tweaking to get it to work. They are probably one of the few companies left that in many cases, still insist you must pay for an upgrade to fix bugs that they introduced in the last version. And it appears I can't even discuss this with them without having a credit card handy for support!@!@#$@# I can understand why it's gone on so long: those bugs and the Byzantine features in InstallShield provide a lot of job security for a lot of people. I, however, own my own company and don't have the time or money to support their foolishness anymore, can anyone suggest a good installation product with scripting like InstallShield has for out of the ordinary requirements? ------------

                                L Offline
                                L Offline
                                Lost User
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #17

                                It is in some respects a little simplistic but usually NSIS[^] works well for me. PS It's also free :-D Paul ;)

                                Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip. - Will Rogers

                                L 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • L Lost User

                                  It is in some respects a little simplistic but usually NSIS[^] works well for me. PS It's also free :-D Paul ;)

                                  Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip. - Will Rogers

                                  L Offline
                                  L Offline
                                  Lost User
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #18

                                  Paul van der Walt wrote: usually NSIS works well for me. Same here! NSIS is a great little tool. If they would add multi-volume support it would be awesome.


                                  Work like you don't need the money.
                                  Love like you've never been hurt.
                                  Dance like nobody's watching.

                                  L 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • L Lost User

                                    Paul van der Walt wrote: usually NSIS works well for me. Same here! NSIS is a great little tool. If they would add multi-volume support it would be awesome.


                                    Work like you don't need the money.
                                    Love like you've never been hurt.
                                    Dance like nobody's watching.

                                    L Offline
                                    L Offline
                                    Lost User
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #19

                                    For my purposes it's alright as it is, because I work with downloads instead of CD's or disks. But I can imagine that that would be a really useful feature. I love that it's a self-contained single EXE :cool: Paul ;)

                                    Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip. - Will Rogers

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • M Member 96

                                      Caution: full on rant coming... For what must be at least the thousandth time in the last three years (no exageration), I come across a major problem in my setup I built with InstallShield (when my setup upgrades an older version, all the shortcuts are removed) and after much wasted time tracking it down discover that it's a major bug in a major feature of InstallShield Developer that is now over 8 months old and still not resolved. http://support.installshield.com/kb/view.asp?articleid=q107649[^] In fact, they even carried over this bug into their new release and still did not fix it! This is just gettting ridiculous, we paid for the premium developer version and I've wasted more time than I really want to remember working around nearly every feature in the program. Every new release is like going into battle. We expect it now and have to allot 3 extra days at minimum just to build and test the setup which isn't re-written from scratch, but is the same one we've been using for years and need to keep tweaking to get it to work. They are probably one of the few companies left that in many cases, still insist you must pay for an upgrade to fix bugs that they introduced in the last version. And it appears I can't even discuss this with them without having a credit card handy for support!@!@#$@# I can understand why it's gone on so long: those bugs and the Byzantine features in InstallShield provide a lot of job security for a lot of people. I, however, own my own company and don't have the time or money to support their foolishness anymore, can anyone suggest a good installation product with scripting like InstallShield has for out of the ordinary requirements? ------------

                                      J Offline
                                      J Offline
                                      J Dunlap
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #20

                                      I use Windows Installer or NSIS for installation packages.

                                      "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
                                      "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi

                                      L 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • J J Dunlap

                                        I use Windows Installer or NSIS for installation packages.

                                        "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
                                        "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi

                                        L Offline
                                        L Offline
                                        Lost User
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #21

                                        jdunlap wrote: Windows Installer So do you create MSI's from scratch? Is that difficult? I'm an NSIS weenie :rolleyes: Paul ;)

                                        Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip. - Will Rogers

                                        J 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • L Lost User

                                          jdunlap wrote: Windows Installer So do you create MSI's from scratch? Is that difficult? I'm an NSIS weenie :rolleyes: Paul ;)

                                          Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip. - Will Rogers

                                          J Offline
                                          J Offline
                                          J Dunlap
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #22

                                          I've only done a couple of .NET install packages, but since I was familiar with MSI from having done non-.NET install packages, I decided to use it. I use Visual Studio Installer at first, then I edit the generated *.msi file using Orca or else I turn it into XML and edit it that way. I'm starting to use NSIS a bit more now, but I still have a lot to learn about it.

                                          "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
                                          "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi

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