Internal conflict
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That's true, but back then it was just normal and usual. I guess people have become more sensitive to it (psychologically) over the years. Incidentally on a similar note, I don't recall peanut allergies existing as a kid. But these days peanuts seem to be contraband in school. And there weren't seatbelts in the back of cars or bouncy tarmac under climbing frames. What a strange wonderful world it was - and that's not because I dismiss all these advances in safety and wellbeing, but simply because people didn't worry about them then.
Regards, Rob Philpott.
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Most of them are in Norwegian, and probably not published in the US of A. One that I know is published is a photo book, aimed at preschoolers, for teaching them the difference between boys and girls: "Show Me!". I've got a couple more in the same group - in the 1980s, using photos for such teaching purposes were fully accepted. I don't know the legal status of the pocket edition of "Quotations from Chairman Mao Tse-tung" (or "The little red book"). Even if it isn't forbidden, you will be treated as a suspected communist by owing it, which would strongly affect both your social life and your professional opportunities. (I didn't buy it because of any sympathy with those ideas, but to try to see what they are. The little red book made no sense at all to me!) I've been collecting photo art books for four decades. Some of the photos in "Was ist der Mench? Eine Antwort in 1509 Photos", from the first three world exhibitions of photography, are definitely illegal in the US of A (and maybe even in Norway, but I bought the book in a Norwegian bookstore). The photo books by Sally Mann have definitely been banned from a large number of libraries and other public collections in the US of A, but I guess at least some states permit private ownership (I have bought the books through Amazon). Some of my private writings are such that even in Norway, I keep the text files encrypted. Like after Nine Eleven, I started contemplating what could be the next attack against The American Way. I frequently develop my ideas about various issues as imaginary scenarios, as a novel or script, to see what situations it would create, and which of the actors' reactions I could morally and legally defend. 9/11 led to two of those, and if they got out, I'd be arrested for planning terrorist actions (probably even in Norway). Before you ask: No, they are not, and will never be, published. Book banning is mostly a state level matter in the US of A; few books are banned by federal authorities. So it could be that for every one of my books, there is at least one state who would not ban its contents. But I am convinced that even in the most liberal state I would risk that visiting neighbors might back off in horror when they discover what is in my bookshelf. Later they might reject any invitation from me, and even be unwilling to talk to me. (Even my Norwegian photography friends are reluctant to discuss Sally Mann photos.)
trønderen wrote:
I don't know the legal status of the pocket edition
Your concern is probably valid. Not so much as to whether a native born US citizen can buy them but rather whether an immigrant or even visitor who either brings them in a bag or attempts to have them shipped from another country might go through. Even if finally deemed legal the legal costs for defending oneself could be crippling.
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Yes, some insurance companies have surcharge (significant one) for smokers. I know because I had a friend in my previous company that smokes (hardly anybody still smokes in the US). I wonder in this case why they don't have the same penalty for fat people, or alcoholics? Because they vastly outnumber the smokers and are bigger burden for the health system.
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Single Step Debugger wrote:
(hardly anybody still smokes in the US)
I question that statement. Quick look suggests it is still 10%. And that is 'cigarettes'. Looks like it goes up to 20% when one includes vaping with nicotine.
10% sound about right, but it looks like you've never been to Europe. Or outside the US. People smoke! I mean like...half of them.
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Smoking is a very strong addiction. Stronger than alcohol and in the same league with hard drugs. So, any measures to prevent young people from getting into this habit are justified. With that said the stigma against smokers is absurd. Smokers should have every amenity to get along with their habit. For example, those smoking boots in the European airports are like gas chambers. Whoever invented and approved these should be ashamed.
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Single Step Debugger wrote:
For example, those smoking boots in the European airports are like gas chambers. Whoever invented and approved these should be ashamed.
Why? Smokers get a place to smoke, they have an extra ventilation pipe that gets out of the building without mixing with the rest. Non smokers are "safe" as long as one of those getting out of the room, does not sit just next to you. And I have been hard smoker and used the rooms a lot of times.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Smoking is disgusting (both tobacco and the herb). Secondhand smoke is real problem. You can get a secondhand high too from the herb. If you want to destroy yourself, that's fine. People do it all the time with their diet. It's your right. But, your right to do that stops at my right to breathe clean air. It's not victimless. I have to breathe your crap if I'm around you. Back in the day, before the herb was made easier to obtain, you could have a neighbor that smoked cigarettes and they'd be stinky, but you woudln't get a buzz... unless maybe you went right up to them and barely with even that. These days, stoners who lit up right before going grocery shopping, their stank will give you a buzz just from standing next to them. This should not be acceptable (and no intelligent person would buy the medicinal argument). What if I have kids standing next to that stoner in line? Am I not supposed to care about their health? The problem is you cannot legislate decency or morality. These people are filthy but try making "don't be a nasty arse" a law. It's absolutely abhorrent that humanity is as such a stupid state right now that people cannot figure out how to at least keep their vice to themselves and care little enough of others to do something about it (generally speaking here btw... not targeted at you directly). Anyone who thinks that weed stank is acceptable needs to live in Vegas for a year... not as a tourist. It'll fix you, assuming you like to think and are a decent person.
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Anyone who thinks that weed stank is acceptable needs to live in Vegas for a year... not as a tourist.
No need... I just need to go home to have the same.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
It's absolutely abhorrent that humanity is as such a stupid state right now
right now? sadly it has already been like this for some years.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Yeah... It's probably location dependent. If it's rare for you, consider yourself lucky. Not really sure how much I can say in the lounge, but in some places in the US it's become very easy to acquire said herb. So easy in fact, I never thought once about moving to a different country until now.
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
So easy in fact, I never thought once about moving to a different country until now.
Don't move to Spain then...
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
So easy in fact, I never thought once about moving to a different country until now.
Don't move to Spain then...
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Good to know. :omg:
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Anyone who thinks that weed stank is acceptable needs to live in Vegas for a year... not as a tourist.
No need... I just need to go home to have the same.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
It's absolutely abhorrent that humanity is as such a stupid state right now
right now? sadly it has already been like this for some years.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Nelek wrote:
right now? sadly it has already been like this for some years.
Touché :laugh:
Jeremy Falcon
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Good to know. :omg:
Jeremy Falcon
I don't know how the legal status is over there right now, but I can tell you that for the last 20 years people have been smoking cannabis and weed on the street. When I go visit my father, you can smell the neighbour's appartment from the elevator (and it is like 25 to 30 m away). I have started to drink coffee in the inside of the bars, because outside you get the sun in the face, but if you are not the only person outside, the chances are 70% that they will smoke cigarretes and 50% that it will be a joint
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
So easy in fact, I never thought once about moving to a different country until now.
Don't move to Spain then...
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Or Portugal, IIRC. And as for Amsterdam in The Netherlands...
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I don't know how the legal status is over there right now, but I can tell you that for the last 20 years people have been smoking cannabis and weed on the street. When I go visit my father, you can smell the neighbour's appartment from the elevator (and it is like 25 to 30 m away). I have started to drink coffee in the inside of the bars, because outside you get the sun in the face, but if you are not the only person outside, the chances are 70% that they will smoke cigarretes and 50% that it will be a joint
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Sorry to hear that man. That was pretty much Vegas... and it was everywhere. I'm in a "nice" part of Texas now and I just went to a "nice" grocery store this morning. Walked right by people camping in their car overnight in the parking lot blazing it up and caught a buzz. That just happened. Vegas was worse, but still... it's too much. I dunno about you, but it's making me lose my faith in humanity. Not that there are losers that live on that crap, but the fact nothing is being done about the losers caring little of others.
Jeremy Falcon
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Or Portugal, IIRC. And as for Amsterdam in The Netherlands...
Good to know. Thanks.
Jeremy Falcon
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Rob Philpott wrote:
because people didn't worry about them then.
Or more likely because they were not aware of them.
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Objectively, the tobacco industry paid professional to bury the long term effects of smoking and 2nd hand smoke. It is only in recent times that the truth that smoking is carcinogenic is taken seriously. Smoking would be banned today if it was not for the revenue that it still generates for Governments. As an asthmatic growing up in a home of 2 smokers, I can tell you that the smoke triggered me many times. I had no rights. Propaganda back then convinced them it was not the smoke. It wasn't until the truth started coming out, they realized the impact that it was having on their children. They then moved to smoking outside, then stop smoking. Whilst you are worried about your rights as a smoker, you're being ignorant of the impact on those around you. Why should we have no rights and be forced to inhale your by-product of smoking?
Graeme
"I fear not the man who has practiced ten thousand kicks one time, but I fear the man that has practiced one kick ten thousand times!" - Bruce Lee
Graeme - this is my story TO THE LETTER as well! My dad was one of those "you are just a complainer" guys who towed the smoking line into his late 70's, even after he stopped smoking. Then one day he realized, after DECADES or reading news on the harmful effects of 2nd hand smoke, that he had three children, none of whom ever smoked, but who all had asthma or lung issues. He said "I can't believe we used to smoke in the car with you kids, with the windows rolled up." The cigarette industry committed fraud on a massive scale and what they paid was not enough. But that said, if you want to smoke go ahead, just don't do it where it poisons anyone else.
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Hello Codepojectens, it's been a while! So here are two conflicting views on smoking: 1) If you want to smoke, that's your business and not for others to tell you whether you can or can't (as long as you do it such that if affects no-one else), and 2) Smoking should be banned, for the good of society and also for the good of the poor victims of an addictive drug. As I get older, I'm able to think back to freer times when people really were genuinely freer to do what they want, like the teachers who used to smoke in my classrooms. They were also free to use physical violence in the case of bad behaviour. Happy days! I suppose we have 'progressed' more from 1) above to 2) or are at least heading there. The problem is, to my mind, these mutually exclusive ideas about smoking are both valid and worth defending to the hilt, which also means I don't have a valid standpoint on the subject - the logic is broken. It's fairly rare for me to be not able to reach some conclusion, even if the conclusion is flawed or just wholly incorrect. Tricky, and for context I've dithered in and out of nicotine addiction (mostly in) for the last 25 years. Vape time.
Regards, Rob Philpott.
If people want to smoke and they do it out of harms way to others, that is fine with me. On the other hand, smokers should not be covered by insurance for any illness that is a result of their smoking, which such costs are passed on to non-smokers such as myself. Smoking is a deadly habit in which the carcinogens attack every organ in the body. Back in the days when I grew up in the 1950s and 1960s, smoking was far more prevalent but not as dangerous since it wasn't until a little later when cigarette companies began filling their cigarettes with all sorts of chemicals making them far more addictive and dangerous to one's health. This is not to say that smoking wasn't dangerous but back then many men died more from heart attacks from eating too much meat and drinking than cancer. One would think that an intelligent society would ban such substances as tobacco use. But most societies on Earth have yet to reach a level of intelligence where people do not need to indulge in such dangerous habits...
Steve Naidamast Sr. Software Engineer Black Falcon Software, Inc. blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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Objectively, the tobacco industry paid professional to bury the long term effects of smoking and 2nd hand smoke. It is only in recent times that the truth that smoking is carcinogenic is taken seriously. Smoking would be banned today if it was not for the revenue that it still generates for Governments. As an asthmatic growing up in a home of 2 smokers, I can tell you that the smoke triggered me many times. I had no rights. Propaganda back then convinced them it was not the smoke. It wasn't until the truth started coming out, they realized the impact that it was having on their children. They then moved to smoking outside, then stop smoking. Whilst you are worried about your rights as a smoker, you're being ignorant of the impact on those around you. Why should we have no rights and be forced to inhale your by-product of smoking?
Graeme
"I fear not the man who has practiced ten thousand kicks one time, but I fear the man that has practiced one kick ten thousand times!" - Bruce Lee
Bah. It's tyranny of the majority with little to do with actual harm when it comes to 2nd hand smoke. They had the flare up over gas stoves recently. I always knew the 2nd hand thing was a ruse and people twisting fact just to get a toehold for screwing over the rights of others in the name of their convenience and comfort. The gas stove stuff just proves it. Oh the people like gas stoves? And they'll fight for them? Nevermind then. Granted, kids have little authority/control over where they are. But it's not as though smokers even make rank on the list of bad parents they have to contend with. Ignoring the impact on those around you? Go elsewhere then. It's not any different than any number of things people may be doing to annoy/offend. Painting it otherwise was always bullshit sham.
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Bah. It's tyranny of the majority with little to do with actual harm when it comes to 2nd hand smoke. They had the flare up over gas stoves recently. I always knew the 2nd hand thing was a ruse and people twisting fact just to get a toehold for screwing over the rights of others in the name of their convenience and comfort. The gas stove stuff just proves it. Oh the people like gas stoves? And they'll fight for them? Nevermind then. Granted, kids have little authority/control over where they are. But it's not as though smokers even make rank on the list of bad parents they have to contend with. Ignoring the impact on those around you? Go elsewhere then. It's not any different than any number of things people may be doing to annoy/offend. Painting it otherwise was always bullshit sham.
jochance wrote:
Ignoring the impact on those around you? Go elsewhere then. It's not any different than any number of things people may be doing to annoy/offend. Painting it otherwise was always bullshit sham.
A very ignorant and selfish point of view.
Graeme
"I fear not the man who has practiced ten thousand kicks one time, but I fear the man that has practiced one kick ten thousand times!" - Bruce Lee
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Most of them are in Norwegian, and probably not published in the US of A. One that I know is published is a photo book, aimed at preschoolers, for teaching them the difference between boys and girls: "Show Me!". I've got a couple more in the same group - in the 1980s, using photos for such teaching purposes were fully accepted. I don't know the legal status of the pocket edition of "Quotations from Chairman Mao Tse-tung" (or "The little red book"). Even if it isn't forbidden, you will be treated as a suspected communist by owing it, which would strongly affect both your social life and your professional opportunities. (I didn't buy it because of any sympathy with those ideas, but to try to see what they are. The little red book made no sense at all to me!) I've been collecting photo art books for four decades. Some of the photos in "Was ist der Mench? Eine Antwort in 1509 Photos", from the first three world exhibitions of photography, are definitely illegal in the US of A (and maybe even in Norway, but I bought the book in a Norwegian bookstore). The photo books by Sally Mann have definitely been banned from a large number of libraries and other public collections in the US of A, but I guess at least some states permit private ownership (I have bought the books through Amazon). Some of my private writings are such that even in Norway, I keep the text files encrypted. Like after Nine Eleven, I started contemplating what could be the next attack against The American Way. I frequently develop my ideas about various issues as imaginary scenarios, as a novel or script, to see what situations it would create, and which of the actors' reactions I could morally and legally defend. 9/11 led to two of those, and if they got out, I'd be arrested for planning terrorist actions (probably even in Norway). Before you ask: No, they are not, and will never be, published. Book banning is mostly a state level matter in the US of A; few books are banned by federal authorities. So it could be that for every one of my books, there is at least one state who would not ban its contents. But I am convinced that even in the most liberal state I would risk that visiting neighbors might back off in horror when they discover what is in my bookshelf. Later they might reject any invitation from me, and even be unwilling to talk to me. (Even my Norwegian photography friends are reluctant to discuss Sally Mann photos.)
Not so amusing story about books When I departed the U.S. Army in 1967 I took a job with a very reputable pharmaceutical company CIBA One of our promotional concepts was to distribute to Medical Schools and Teaching Hospitals books by Frank Netter. Frank H. Netter - Wikipedia[^] In High School for 4 years I had a Library Science Class with a wonderful teacher. So when I obtained a complete set of Netter Atlas's I decided to donate these to my High School Library The same teacher was still there and was so excited she called the Biology teacher to come have a look. Please bear in mind these lithographs are anatomically correct. Biology teacher said "I think we need to have these approved before students can see them" Now I know why I did not learn any useful Biology ! YES that was 1970 IMHO we have lost our way when we censor books
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If people want to smoke and they do it out of harms way to others, that is fine with me. On the other hand, smokers should not be covered by insurance for any illness that is a result of their smoking, which such costs are passed on to non-smokers such as myself. Smoking is a deadly habit in which the carcinogens attack every organ in the body. Back in the days when I grew up in the 1950s and 1960s, smoking was far more prevalent but not as dangerous since it wasn't until a little later when cigarette companies began filling their cigarettes with all sorts of chemicals making them far more addictive and dangerous to one's health. This is not to say that smoking wasn't dangerous but back then many men died more from heart attacks from eating too much meat and drinking than cancer. One would think that an intelligent society would ban such substances as tobacco use. But most societies on Earth have yet to reach a level of intelligence where people do not need to indulge in such dangerous habits...
Steve Naidamast Sr. Software Engineer Black Falcon Software, Inc. blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
My first experiment with smoking was cough cough not so smooth A pack of Cigarettes was 0.65 cents and a candy bar was 0.05 cents to 0.10 cents either way I could have 6 to 10 candy bars it was a no brainier. Fast forward to my job working for a pharmaceutical company CIBA The company had this bright idea each rep should spend a day with a physician. The fellow I choose said meet me at the hospital at 6 AM Great running late breakfast was a doughnut and glass of milk. My Physician explained we were going to observe a autopsy on a patient who had died last night did I have any issues NOPE. This patient had been a smoker and a coal miner YEP Black Lung When they removed the one lung it was the size of a small child's hand and the other lung was intact and much larger. Besides almost loosing my breakfast I knew I was never going to work in a coal mine and smoking was never ever going to be a part of my life
