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  3. What's your least favorite part of coding?

What's your least favorite part of coding?

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  • StarNamer workS StarNamer work

    In an ideal world, I should get a specification which fully documents what something is needed to do. I write it and send it back having tested as far as I can, then the business does extensive tests and the bugs get corrected before it gets released. So we should only need to code and test to the requirements and then the specification is the documentation. As I said, "In an ideal world, ...". :)

    Mircea NeacsuM Offline
    Mircea NeacsuM Offline
    Mircea Neacsu
    wrote on last edited by
    #28

    StarNamer@work wrote:

    ...and then the specification is the documentation. As I said, "In an ideal world, ..."

    Well, I have issues with that on two counts: - the specification only provides the "black box" description of the code, what gets in and what gets out. It doesn't say how to do it. It is up to you, the programmer to choose/devise the best algorithm, data structures to be used, limitations and compromises you had to make and so on; in brief, the nitty-gritty of the implementation. - as you say, the world is not ideal and specifications are not complete so you have to make decisions during the implementation on how to solve those blank spots in the specification. You do it either by going back to the user, or by making informed choices but in the end all that accumulated knowledge has to be put somewhere by someone and I'd argue that you are in the best position to amend that specification and transform it into a manual. Of course things can be different if you are part of a humongous organization and you are just a little cog doing your little bit for an enormous project. In that case there are probably many other people doing documentation, testing, integration, etc. and you just have to do (well) your bit of coding. However the OP was talking of design and contrasting it with documentation and testing, often seen as "lowly" activities. My point was that, in smaller projects, where you have certain freedom to design and implement stuff, there are no "lowly" tasks and everything has to be regarded as equally important. I could go on, but I already feel that I'm ranting. Sorry... :)

    Mircea

    StarNamer workS 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • Mircea NeacsuM Mircea Neacsu

      Sorry I have to somewhat contradict you, but I don't think your question has a proper answer between professionals. My view is that we do the work, and the whole work or we get out of this profession or we call ourselves hobbyists. What would you say of a surgeon who says "I enjoy cutting, but stitching not so much"? The oft repeated lament "I hate documenting/commenting" is driving me nuts: what good is your work if you cannot explain to someone how to use it or if you explain it badly? Saying that you don't want to cover with tests all significant cases is like someone performing a CAT scan and stopping in the middle: probably the other half is also OK. Speaking for myself, I like my profession and try to do it the best I can. I strive to document my code (although English is not my mother tongue), write unit tests and, in general, do all the drudgery tasks associated with programming. The fun is doing the whole lot.

      Mircea

      J Offline
      J Offline
      jmaida
      wrote on last edited by
      #29

      Ditto Mircea, I agree. In my grad school computer lab, we had the proverbial toilet paper picture with "The job's not finished until the paperwork is done!", on the wall next to our Data General Eclipse mini-computer. Our mentor/professor meant it as we got graded from A-to-Z in preparation for the professional world of computer programming.

      "A little time, a little trouble, your better day" Badfinger

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • H honey the codewitch

        The fun part of IoT and embedded is a lot of times you're working very close to the metal, and you can't rely on things like an operating system and graphics drivers - you have to write them yourself (or find code that's already written in some cases). I have a graphics library I wrote which I've been using for about 2 years both professionally and as a hobby. I've extended it in that time to support Unicode, TrueType, SVG, PNG and JPG. I liked writing all that code. I hated documenting it[^]. I'm working on documentation for my user interface library that builds on top of it right now and it's a slog. Testing it is at least as bad. I can't decide which I hate most. Probably testing, considering I enjoy writing at least. I've got some unit tests for my major library, but I haven't written it to cover the absolutely vast surface area of my test matrix. Design is typically fun for me, but I feel like every third time I think I'm clever it bites me. Lately the above user interface library has been kicking me in the teeth, requiring me to make breaking changes over several iterations of the code. I'm not thrilled about it, but it's better than testing.

        Check out my IoT graphics library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx

        R Offline
        R Offline
        Ron Anders
        wrote on last edited by
        #30

        When it must work, is right, is simple but doesn't. I have been struggling most of Sunday where 2 old iframes src=(path to mvc view) work fine but the new one, just like the others is producing a 404. I can go to the folder in dos and copy the view iis can't find to somewhere and that is ok, and it's in the same folder as the others. I have stared at the code and stared at the code. These days put me in a foul mood.

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • H honey the codewitch

          I hate documenting my code, but I enjoy writing technical articles. I've tried using codeproject articles to document my code, but in the end I found they were at best supplementary. Now I've taken to using markdown and generating a wiki web from it using Gatsby. Markdown is at least easy to format, and I can do it all in VS Code, putting the markdown in a /docs folder under the project. I even have a server script that repulls my doc updates from git and pushes them to the web. Markdown, once you know it - and if you use a preview extension with it, is a nice way to document. It's now used all over the place, including Github, and it's also easy to read even if you don't have a markdown display app. I know it isn't the silver bullet you and I are hoping for, but I like it a lot better than trying to fill in the blanks with something like doxygen.

          Check out my IoT graphics library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx

          N Offline
          N Offline
          Nelek
          wrote on last edited by
          #31

          honey the codewitch wrote:

          It's now used all over the place, including Github,

          Not yet[^] :rolleyes: ;P :-D

          M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • A Alois Kraus

            Actually I like these issues and solve them then with ETW Tracing (most of the time). E.g. AV Scanners can cause funny issues which can make software fail in interesting ways. [^]

            N Offline
            N Offline
            Nelek
            wrote on last edited by
            #32

            Hell yeah. McAfee is installed at work and we have had really weirdo things happening... everytime we do get a "not so logical" thing, the first we do is to deactivate it for an hour (the only thing we can do due to server policies) or check the second most common cause... the windows updates.

            M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.

            G 1 Reply Last reply
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            • C Chris Maunder

              The bit where you write beautiful, elegant code that solves are well-defined, common problem in an easy way with seamless integration and your users take one look at it and point at the huge flaw you didn't see.

              cheers Chris Maunder

              N Offline
              N Offline
              Nelek
              wrote on last edited by
              #33

              Chris Maunder wrote:

              and your users take one look at it and point at the huge flaw you didn't see.

              Or when a user that is working less than 2 weeks there blocks the execution in such a way that you need to step in with the laptop and manually reset something, after 4 years of non stop stable as a rock working record... :doh: :sigh: X|

              M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • H honey the codewitch

                The fun part of IoT and embedded is a lot of times you're working very close to the metal, and you can't rely on things like an operating system and graphics drivers - you have to write them yourself (or find code that's already written in some cases). I have a graphics library I wrote which I've been using for about 2 years both professionally and as a hobby. I've extended it in that time to support Unicode, TrueType, SVG, PNG and JPG. I liked writing all that code. I hated documenting it[^]. I'm working on documentation for my user interface library that builds on top of it right now and it's a slog. Testing it is at least as bad. I can't decide which I hate most. Probably testing, considering I enjoy writing at least. I've got some unit tests for my major library, but I haven't written it to cover the absolutely vast surface area of my test matrix. Design is typically fun for me, but I feel like every third time I think I'm clever it bites me. Lately the above user interface library has been kicking me in the teeth, requiring me to make breaking changes over several iterations of the code. I'm not thrilled about it, but it's better than testing.

                Check out my IoT graphics library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx

                N Offline
                N Offline
                Nelek
                wrote on last edited by
                #34

                Having to debug old code and work out what the hell was thinking the idiot that wrote that code just to find out after a while, that I was that idiot.

                M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • H honey the codewitch

                  The fun part of IoT and embedded is a lot of times you're working very close to the metal, and you can't rely on things like an operating system and graphics drivers - you have to write them yourself (or find code that's already written in some cases). I have a graphics library I wrote which I've been using for about 2 years both professionally and as a hobby. I've extended it in that time to support Unicode, TrueType, SVG, PNG and JPG. I liked writing all that code. I hated documenting it[^]. I'm working on documentation for my user interface library that builds on top of it right now and it's a slog. Testing it is at least as bad. I can't decide which I hate most. Probably testing, considering I enjoy writing at least. I've got some unit tests for my major library, but I haven't written it to cover the absolutely vast surface area of my test matrix. Design is typically fun for me, but I feel like every third time I think I'm clever it bites me. Lately the above user interface library has been kicking me in the teeth, requiring me to make breaking changes over several iterations of the code. I'm not thrilled about it, but it's better than testing.

                  Check out my IoT graphics library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx

                  P Offline
                  P Offline
                  Paul Sanders the other one
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #35

                  Testing is the worst. Documentation is the worst too. After that, I go into a bit of a decline. (With apologies to Douglas Adams)

                  Paul Sanders. If I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter - Blaise Pascal. Some of my best work is in the undo buffer.

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • Mircea NeacsuM Mircea Neacsu

                    Sorry I have to somewhat contradict you, but I don't think your question has a proper answer between professionals. My view is that we do the work, and the whole work or we get out of this profession or we call ourselves hobbyists. What would you say of a surgeon who says "I enjoy cutting, but stitching not so much"? The oft repeated lament "I hate documenting/commenting" is driving me nuts: what good is your work if you cannot explain to someone how to use it or if you explain it badly? Saying that you don't want to cover with tests all significant cases is like someone performing a CAT scan and stopping in the middle: probably the other half is also OK. Speaking for myself, I like my profession and try to do it the best I can. I strive to document my code (although English is not my mother tongue), write unit tests and, in general, do all the drudgery tasks associated with programming. The fun is doing the whole lot.

                    Mircea

                    Sander RosselS Offline
                    Sander RosselS Offline
                    Sander Rossel
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #36

                    Mircea Neacsu wrote:

                    I don't think your question has a proper answer between professionals

                    So you like everything about your job? Including the meetings with management? Very few people like everything about their job. In fact, not many people really like their job at all. As for the rest of your post, I come across very little code that's properly documented, my own code included. I don't find it all that important and neither does my customer and it's never been an issue. Same goes for automated tests. The greatest bottleneck in my code is a piece that requires extensive UI and integration testing (of which a part can't even be tested because third party). It's faster and easier to just manually run the code a few times and get that code in order so there's fewer chances of it breaking. Having said that, I hate writing documentation because the moment you write it the software will have evolved and the documentation is outdated and no one will ever read it anyway and for that reason I never trust documentation. I also really dislike writing tests. The only tests I've seen never broke until they did because functionality changed. Never have I prevented a bug with tests. I use tests when writing complicated and easy to test logic, like parsers (but I rarely write those and when I do they're simple parsers).

                    Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript

                    Mircea NeacsuM 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • 0 0x01AA

                      Quote:

                      Documentation, as I am no good at writing clear instructions

                      Now appart from Q/A where you simply reply with a link, I have a strong feeling, that you are writing very good instructions :thumbsup:

                      L Offline
                      L Offline
                      Lost User
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #37

                      The quality of my answers does depend also on my mood.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • H honey the codewitch

                        The fun part of IoT and embedded is a lot of times you're working very close to the metal, and you can't rely on things like an operating system and graphics drivers - you have to write them yourself (or find code that's already written in some cases). I have a graphics library I wrote which I've been using for about 2 years both professionally and as a hobby. I've extended it in that time to support Unicode, TrueType, SVG, PNG and JPG. I liked writing all that code. I hated documenting it[^]. I'm working on documentation for my user interface library that builds on top of it right now and it's a slog. Testing it is at least as bad. I can't decide which I hate most. Probably testing, considering I enjoy writing at least. I've got some unit tests for my major library, but I haven't written it to cover the absolutely vast surface area of my test matrix. Design is typically fun for me, but I feel like every third time I think I'm clever it bites me. Lately the above user interface library has been kicking me in the teeth, requiring me to make breaking changes over several iterations of the code. I'm not thrilled about it, but it's better than testing.

                        Check out my IoT graphics library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx

                        H Offline
                        H Offline
                        haughtonomous
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #38

                        Recoding because some product manager has changed his/her mind and shoehorned some feature modification into the spec, which trashes the design and requires a major rewrite. I hate doing things twice. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • H honey the codewitch

                          The fun part of IoT and embedded is a lot of times you're working very close to the metal, and you can't rely on things like an operating system and graphics drivers - you have to write them yourself (or find code that's already written in some cases). I have a graphics library I wrote which I've been using for about 2 years both professionally and as a hobby. I've extended it in that time to support Unicode, TrueType, SVG, PNG and JPG. I liked writing all that code. I hated documenting it[^]. I'm working on documentation for my user interface library that builds on top of it right now and it's a slog. Testing it is at least as bad. I can't decide which I hate most. Probably testing, considering I enjoy writing at least. I've got some unit tests for my major library, but I haven't written it to cover the absolutely vast surface area of my test matrix. Design is typically fun for me, but I feel like every third time I think I'm clever it bites me. Lately the above user interface library has been kicking me in the teeth, requiring me to make breaking changes over several iterations of the code. I'm not thrilled about it, but it's better than testing.

                          Check out my IoT graphics library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx

                          H Offline
                          H Offline
                          haughtonomous
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #39

                          Recoding because some product manager has changed his/her mind and shoehorned some feature modification into the spec, which trashes the design and requires a major rewrite. I hate doing things twice. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • Sander RosselS Sander Rossel

                            Mircea Neacsu wrote:

                            I don't think your question has a proper answer between professionals

                            So you like everything about your job? Including the meetings with management? Very few people like everything about their job. In fact, not many people really like their job at all. As for the rest of your post, I come across very little code that's properly documented, my own code included. I don't find it all that important and neither does my customer and it's never been an issue. Same goes for automated tests. The greatest bottleneck in my code is a piece that requires extensive UI and integration testing (of which a part can't even be tested because third party). It's faster and easier to just manually run the code a few times and get that code in order so there's fewer chances of it breaking. Having said that, I hate writing documentation because the moment you write it the software will have evolved and the documentation is outdated and no one will ever read it anyway and for that reason I never trust documentation. I also really dislike writing tests. The only tests I've seen never broke until they did because functionality changed. Never have I prevented a bug with tests. I use tests when writing complicated and easy to test logic, like parsers (but I rarely write those and when I do they're simple parsers).

                            Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript

                            Mircea NeacsuM Offline
                            Mircea NeacsuM Offline
                            Mircea Neacsu
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #40

                            Sander Rossel wrote:

                            So you like everything about your job? Including the meetings with management?

                            Yes, I lived an enchanted life :) My boss for 20+ years was the owner of the company, an intelligent, nice person who called meetings only when needed and kept them short and to the object. Otherwise, I had my share of delayed flights, lost luggage, running into the occasional idiot, in short the usual unpleasantness of life, but that's not something I could blame on my profession.

                            Sander Rossel wrote:

                            In fact, not many people really like their job at all.

                            I know. In fact I see it as one of the best paths to a miserable life. Hopefully, most programmers who hang out in their spare time at a coding site, do enjoy their profession. Otherwise I'm very, very sorry for them. Now about documentation:

                            Sander Rossel wrote:

                            I don't find it all that important and neither does my customer and it's never been an issue.

                            Really? I imagine you provide your customer with some type of manual or instructions. As for documenting the internals of your program, if other colleagues need to look at your code, I'm not sure they enjoy the experience. If you are a team of one, it might not be that important in your younger years or if you are writing throw-away code that is used only once and never revisited. If you are writing reusable code, docs matter.

                            Sander Rossel wrote:

                            I also really dislike writing tests. The only tests I've seen never broke until they did because functionality changed. Never have I prevented a bug with tests.

                            I don't know what type of code you are writing. It might be your case, but in my world tests do matter. I do complicated math stuff and I want to make sure it works for all acceptable inputs. Some of the code I wrote has been in use for 10-15 years and that's because of a combination of being well-documented and properly tested.

                            Mircea

                            Sander RosselS 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • H honey the codewitch

                              Sometimes I like that challenge. Other times it can be frustrating.

                              Check out my IoT graphics library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx

                              L Offline
                              L Offline
                              lmoelleb
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #41

                              It can be a challenge when you have access to something you can examine. In this specific case, all we have access to is a 404 response if we do not guess the URL and port. Another problem with 1 million euro gizmos, they do not give us any to play with in a test environment.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • Mircea NeacsuM Mircea Neacsu

                                Sander Rossel wrote:

                                So you like everything about your job? Including the meetings with management?

                                Yes, I lived an enchanted life :) My boss for 20+ years was the owner of the company, an intelligent, nice person who called meetings only when needed and kept them short and to the object. Otherwise, I had my share of delayed flights, lost luggage, running into the occasional idiot, in short the usual unpleasantness of life, but that's not something I could blame on my profession.

                                Sander Rossel wrote:

                                In fact, not many people really like their job at all.

                                I know. In fact I see it as one of the best paths to a miserable life. Hopefully, most programmers who hang out in their spare time at a coding site, do enjoy their profession. Otherwise I'm very, very sorry for them. Now about documentation:

                                Sander Rossel wrote:

                                I don't find it all that important and neither does my customer and it's never been an issue.

                                Really? I imagine you provide your customer with some type of manual or instructions. As for documenting the internals of your program, if other colleagues need to look at your code, I'm not sure they enjoy the experience. If you are a team of one, it might not be that important in your younger years or if you are writing throw-away code that is used only once and never revisited. If you are writing reusable code, docs matter.

                                Sander Rossel wrote:

                                I also really dislike writing tests. The only tests I've seen never broke until they did because functionality changed. Never have I prevented a bug with tests.

                                I don't know what type of code you are writing. It might be your case, but in my world tests do matter. I do complicated math stuff and I want to make sure it works for all acceptable inputs. Some of the code I wrote has been in use for 10-15 years and that's because of a combination of being well-documented and properly tested.

                                Mircea

                                Sander RosselS Offline
                                Sander RosselS Offline
                                Sander Rossel
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #42

                                Mircea Neacsu wrote:

                                but that's not something I could blame on my profession

                                Part of the job, I guess.

                                Mircea Neacsu wrote:

                                Hopefully, most programmers who hang out in their spare time at a coding site, do enjoy their profession.

                                I do :)

                                Mircea Neacsu wrote:

                                Really? I imagine you provide your customer with some type of manual or instructions.

                                None whatsoever. My code is custom made for every customer so they know exactly what they're getting. I get an occassional call like "Sander, if I press this button will it do x or y?", but that happens maybe once a year. Mostly because all buttons are pressed on a weekly basis so people know what they do. I've written plenty of manuals in the past and I think none of them were ever read. Even with a manual, it's easier for my customer to call me than it is to find and read the documentation. At one time the customer even requested a help menu, accessible from an "info-button" at the top right of the form. We documented the entire form and added the button. The only one who pressed it was me when they called "what does this do?" :laugh: One time a customer told me "I didn't know what to expect, but I opened it and I just knew where to go because the software is so intuitive."

                                Mircea Neacsu wrote:

                                if other colleagues need to look at your code, I'm not sure they enjoy the experience.

                                I recently got a new junior employee and he had little trouble working through my code. It's not that hard either, you POST a form and end up in the OnPost method and you can figure it out from there. A few if-statements, a for-loop, some validations, save something to the database... Nothing too complicated. I have the advantage that most of my code has a GUI, which means most of the funtionality has a visible component, which also makes debugging a bit easier (there's always a clear entry point, like a button click). Some of my code is a hassle to work with, but I wouldn't even know how to begin to describe it. Just set a breakpoint and walk through the code line by line, I guess. That's really the only sure way to know what code does. Reversed, I never read documentation either. If I have to read lots of documentation just to understand what's going on, it's probably bad code and the documentation would be just as bad. On that note, writing go

                                Mircea NeacsuM 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • Sander RosselS Sander Rossel

                                  Mircea Neacsu wrote:

                                  but that's not something I could blame on my profession

                                  Part of the job, I guess.

                                  Mircea Neacsu wrote:

                                  Hopefully, most programmers who hang out in their spare time at a coding site, do enjoy their profession.

                                  I do :)

                                  Mircea Neacsu wrote:

                                  Really? I imagine you provide your customer with some type of manual or instructions.

                                  None whatsoever. My code is custom made for every customer so they know exactly what they're getting. I get an occassional call like "Sander, if I press this button will it do x or y?", but that happens maybe once a year. Mostly because all buttons are pressed on a weekly basis so people know what they do. I've written plenty of manuals in the past and I think none of them were ever read. Even with a manual, it's easier for my customer to call me than it is to find and read the documentation. At one time the customer even requested a help menu, accessible from an "info-button" at the top right of the form. We documented the entire form and added the button. The only one who pressed it was me when they called "what does this do?" :laugh: One time a customer told me "I didn't know what to expect, but I opened it and I just knew where to go because the software is so intuitive."

                                  Mircea Neacsu wrote:

                                  if other colleagues need to look at your code, I'm not sure they enjoy the experience.

                                  I recently got a new junior employee and he had little trouble working through my code. It's not that hard either, you POST a form and end up in the OnPost method and you can figure it out from there. A few if-statements, a for-loop, some validations, save something to the database... Nothing too complicated. I have the advantage that most of my code has a GUI, which means most of the funtionality has a visible component, which also makes debugging a bit easier (there's always a clear entry point, like a button click). Some of my code is a hassle to work with, but I wouldn't even know how to begin to describe it. Just set a breakpoint and walk through the code line by line, I guess. That's really the only sure way to know what code does. Reversed, I never read documentation either. If I have to read lots of documentation just to understand what's going on, it's probably bad code and the documentation would be just as bad. On that note, writing go

                                  Mircea NeacsuM Offline
                                  Mircea NeacsuM Offline
                                  Mircea Neacsu
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #43

                                  Sander Rossel wrote:

                                  Part of the job, I guess.

                                  Price to be paid for travelling to 50+ countries on 6 continents with all travel expenses paid :laugh:

                                  Sander Rossel wrote:

                                  Mostly LOB applications. I really don't need to test that a button click results in some entity being validated and saved to the database. I manually tested it and it works.

                                  There is some difference in purpose and scale. In my case, the same software was/is used for data acquisition and visualization by over 5000 customers who connected 200+ types of devices. Besides, operating costs for some of the customers were so big that a single day lost was more than the cost of our software. If it wouldn't have worked, they would have thrown it overboard and I wouldn't have had the chance of a comfy retirement. :D

                                  Mircea

                                  Sander RosselS 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • Mircea NeacsuM Mircea Neacsu

                                    Sander Rossel wrote:

                                    Part of the job, I guess.

                                    Price to be paid for travelling to 50+ countries on 6 continents with all travel expenses paid :laugh:

                                    Sander Rossel wrote:

                                    Mostly LOB applications. I really don't need to test that a button click results in some entity being validated and saved to the database. I manually tested it and it works.

                                    There is some difference in purpose and scale. In my case, the same software was/is used for data acquisition and visualization by over 5000 customers who connected 200+ types of devices. Besides, operating costs for some of the customers were so big that a single day lost was more than the cost of our software. If it wouldn't have worked, they would have thrown it overboard and I wouldn't have had the chance of a comfy retirement. :D

                                    Mircea

                                    Sander RosselS Offline
                                    Sander RosselS Offline
                                    Sander Rossel
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #44

                                    Mircea Neacsu wrote:

                                    travelling to 50+ countries on 6 continents

                                    I'd absolutely hate that part of the job X| I hate visiting customers, save for two are even closer than my own office (6 and 7 km vs. 14 km). I don't like working from home all the time either though, need to get out and socialize once in a while :)

                                    Mircea Neacsu wrote:

                                    There is some difference in purpose and scale

                                    That's my point exactly. In your original post you said: "The oft repeated lament "I hate documenting/commenting" is driving me nuts: what good is your work if you cannot explain to someone how to use it or if you explain it badly? Saying that you don't want to cover with tests all significant cases is like someone performing a CAT scan and stopping in the middle: probably the other half is also OK." However, at my scale, it adds more work and complexity than it takes away. Just like almost everything, whether you need documentation and unit tests "depends" on your use case. Not having proper build and release pipelines is leaving the job half-done though :laugh:

                                    Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript

                                    Mircea NeacsuM H 2 Replies Last reply
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                                    • Sander RosselS Sander Rossel

                                      Mircea Neacsu wrote:

                                      travelling to 50+ countries on 6 continents

                                      I'd absolutely hate that part of the job X| I hate visiting customers, save for two are even closer than my own office (6 and 7 km vs. 14 km). I don't like working from home all the time either though, need to get out and socialize once in a while :)

                                      Mircea Neacsu wrote:

                                      There is some difference in purpose and scale

                                      That's my point exactly. In your original post you said: "The oft repeated lament "I hate documenting/commenting" is driving me nuts: what good is your work if you cannot explain to someone how to use it or if you explain it badly? Saying that you don't want to cover with tests all significant cases is like someone performing a CAT scan and stopping in the middle: probably the other half is also OK." However, at my scale, it adds more work and complexity than it takes away. Just like almost everything, whether you need documentation and unit tests "depends" on your use case. Not having proper build and release pipelines is leaving the job half-done though :laugh:

                                      Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript

                                      Mircea NeacsuM Offline
                                      Mircea NeacsuM Offline
                                      Mircea Neacsu
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #45

                                      Sander Rossel wrote:

                                      'd absolutely hate that part of the job X| I hate visiting customers, save for two are even closer than my own office (6 and 7 km vs. 14 km).

                                      To each his own: me, I love(d) travelling. Now my bucket list is empty. I still like vacationing but it's not the same as when you go for work and get a chance to know people and see their real life. I guess I'm more of a traveler than a tourist. :)

                                      Sander Rossel wrote:

                                      Not having proper build and release pipelines is leaving the job half-done though :laugh:

                                      Amen! :laugh:

                                      Mircea

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                                      • H honey the codewitch

                                        The fun part of IoT and embedded is a lot of times you're working very close to the metal, and you can't rely on things like an operating system and graphics drivers - you have to write them yourself (or find code that's already written in some cases). I have a graphics library I wrote which I've been using for about 2 years both professionally and as a hobby. I've extended it in that time to support Unicode, TrueType, SVG, PNG and JPG. I liked writing all that code. I hated documenting it[^]. I'm working on documentation for my user interface library that builds on top of it right now and it's a slog. Testing it is at least as bad. I can't decide which I hate most. Probably testing, considering I enjoy writing at least. I've got some unit tests for my major library, but I haven't written it to cover the absolutely vast surface area of my test matrix. Design is typically fun for me, but I feel like every third time I think I'm clever it bites me. Lately the above user interface library has been kicking me in the teeth, requiring me to make breaking changes over several iterations of the code. I'm not thrilled about it, but it's better than testing.

                                        Check out my IoT graphics library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx

                                        M Offline
                                        M Offline
                                        MSBassSinger
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #46

                                        Mine is not technical. Overall, I am pleased with the tools and helps I have in VS2022. My least favorite part of coding is interference in my coding by non-technical project managers. Such as (and I paraphrase for brevity): “That will take too long to do it right.” “Are we there yet?” “I read somewhere you should be using language Y instead of language X. Go back and rewrite all the code in language X.” “We don’t need exception handling and logging. Just do it without all that.” “Why is it taking so long?” “Let’s add more programmers so we get this done sooner.” (said about halfway or after the midpoint of the project) “We need more meetings.” And, of course, the reader could add more. P.S. I have over 20 years as a project manager with the technical knowledge, skills, and abilities. This is about the non-technical project managers who don’t have the necessary knowledge and experience on how software engineering projects differ from other projects they learned about in their coursework. I thank God everyday for those non-technical project managers that understand they need to learn the difference and are teachable. They make fantastic project managers.

                                        H 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • H honey the codewitch

                                          The fun part of IoT and embedded is a lot of times you're working very close to the metal, and you can't rely on things like an operating system and graphics drivers - you have to write them yourself (or find code that's already written in some cases). I have a graphics library I wrote which I've been using for about 2 years both professionally and as a hobby. I've extended it in that time to support Unicode, TrueType, SVG, PNG and JPG. I liked writing all that code. I hated documenting it[^]. I'm working on documentation for my user interface library that builds on top of it right now and it's a slog. Testing it is at least as bad. I can't decide which I hate most. Probably testing, considering I enjoy writing at least. I've got some unit tests for my major library, but I haven't written it to cover the absolutely vast surface area of my test matrix. Design is typically fun for me, but I feel like every third time I think I'm clever it bites me. Lately the above user interface library has been kicking me in the teeth, requiring me to make breaking changes over several iterations of the code. I'm not thrilled about it, but it's better than testing.

                                          Check out my IoT graphics library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx

                                          C Offline
                                          C Offline
                                          Choroid
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #47

                                          Learning to code with C# and coming from VB 6 & VB.Net and not know what I am doing So asking a question on CP and receiving an answer that Makes me think Tells me what to understand OR best some example code that I can expand on The real fun is going back and fixing the code in a application when I learn a better way to structure the code ie putting all my CRUD functions in a Library

                                          H 1 Reply Last reply
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