How much code can a coder be assigned to be in charge with
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I’m curios how much can a single person do? How much time does it take to become accustomed to the codebase you’re employer? If you’re willing to talk about this, I’m curious about this too, how does the division of work take place in the software engineering field, what does a senior do and what would a junior do.
It's impossible to answer. In general, one or more programmers are in charge of a section of the code (graphics, database, UI, business logic ... ) Depending on the size of the software, a coder can be in charge of more things, Senior will take care of the most complex things, architecture and/or software design; junior will do simpler things; smaller changes, simple new features and learn from that. In my previous job, after 20 years, I knew most of the software except (advanced) 3D graphics and maths stuff. I needed, I could probably go in and fix bugs; the same way, the maths nerds could come in and fix UI bugs. In my current job, we'll be a smaller team, so I will have to take care of a lot more code.
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
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I’m curios how much can a single person do? How much time does it take to become accustomed to the codebase you’re employer? If you’re willing to talk about this, I’m curious about this too, how does the division of work take place in the software engineering field, what does a senior do and what would a junior do.
The product family on which I worked for much of my career contained over 30M lines of code. Various products were built on a common platform. The language, operating system, code repository, and platform were all proprietary. Products were sometimes combined in "superset" loads for customers (telecom network operators) that operated more than one kind of network. There's no way anyone can understand 30M lines of code, although some of us could look at reasonable subsets of it and figure out what was going on. Code ownership was important. Before code could be merged, it had to be reviewed by a senior designer in the user group that owned that code. Proposed code changes were usually discussed and reviewed in advance so that time wouldn't be wasted on changes that would be rejected when submitted. Besides reviewing merge requests, senior designers provided design consulting for junior designers and were assigned the more difficult features.
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I’m curios how much can a single person do? How much time does it take to become accustomed to the codebase you’re employer? If you’re willing to talk about this, I’m curious about this too, how does the division of work take place in the software engineering field, what does a senior do and what would a junior do.
In large companies, especially in medical imaging companies I've worked for, the codebase will be large, especially since they have to adhere to the DICOM standard, and regulatory requirements. At least 15 to 25 million lines of code in various languages, ranging over C#, Java, and even browser based frontend languages/frameworks. Perhaps there will be just a handful of people in the entire company who have the big picture of the codebase. A developer will only know his part of the code, just that "I have to fix this bug in this part of the UI, or, add this small enhancement here". Some of the more experienced developers may opt for the managerial path. However in a small company, it is unlikely that there'll be such a huge codebase. The individual developer's responsibilities will also be high. A manager here will also wear the developer's hat on occasions.
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I’m curios how much can a single person do? How much time does it take to become accustomed to the codebase you’re employer? If you’re willing to talk about this, I’m curious about this too, how does the division of work take place in the software engineering field, what does a senior do and what would a junior do.
Calin Negru wrote:
I’m curios how much can a single person do?
Where I work (and I suspect at most other shops) we follow a crawl-walk-run process. Regardless of whether you're a new grad or an experienced developer, the first tasks a new dev gets are crawl tasks (e.g. "change a string in the app"). The purpose of this task is not to confirm that the engineer knows how to change a string, but rather to give them enough time to get familiar with the codebase and the engineering process followed at the company. A crawl task is a low risk one that doesn't impact the release. Walk tasks are usually bugs where the dev needs to do a fair amount of digging around and will likely require them to ask deeper questions. Run tasks are standard deliverables that assume the developer is able to hit the ground running when they take on these tasks. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Calin Negru wrote:
I’m curios how much can a single person do?
Where I work (and I suspect at most other shops) we follow a crawl-walk-run process. Regardless of whether you're a new grad or an experienced developer, the first tasks a new dev gets are crawl tasks (e.g. "change a string in the app"). The purpose of this task is not to confirm that the engineer knows how to change a string, but rather to give them enough time to get familiar with the codebase and the engineering process followed at the company. A crawl task is a low risk one that doesn't impact the release. Walk tasks are usually bugs where the dev needs to do a fair amount of digging around and will likely require them to ask deeper questions. Run tasks are standard deliverables that assume the developer is able to hit the ground running when they take on these tasks. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
Ravi Bhavnani wrote:
A crawl task is a low risk one that doesn't impact the release.
that shouldn't impact the release :rolleyes: Wouldn't be the first time someone makes a typo or is just next level incompetent :laugh:
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I’m curios how much can a single person do? How much time does it take to become accustomed to the codebase you’re employer? If you’re willing to talk about this, I’m curious about this too, how does the division of work take place in the software engineering field, what does a senior do and what would a junior do.
Depends on the programmer, company, codebase, etc. If code is stable and doesn't change very often, you can be responsible for a whole lot of code indeed! :D
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
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It really depends. For me I do embedded and I'm used to doing the software on my own. I'm pretty quick based on my observation and that of my clients, but I'd be slower if I wasn't doing embedded or if I had to deal with other people's code. I have external limiting factors on how much work I can take on, but people around here know I can produce at volume. I have a terrible reputation. :laugh:
Check out my IoT graphics library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx And my IoT UI/User Experience library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix
In a case like yours you probably have to build by yourself everything your program might require, containers, hash maps etc. Third party libraries for projects like yours are probably rare.
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In a case like yours you probably have to build by yourself everything your program might require, containers, hash maps etc. Third party libraries for projects like yours are probably rare.
Indeed. I have built up an entire ecosystem for embedded over the past several years. It doesn't help that I can't use The STL in C++ because it's often incomplete or non-standard, or otherwise is irresponsible in how it uses the heap. Oh and everything basically needs to be cross platform. I have my own cross platform graphics library that does SVG, PNG, JPG, TrueType, X11 colors, alpha blending, etc. I have my own UI/UX library that builds on it. I have drivers for many different devices that work on several platforms. I have simple hash maps and such as you say. I've produced a lot of code. :laugh:
Check out my IoT graphics library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx And my IoT UI/User Experience library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix
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I’m curios how much can a single person do? How much time does it take to become accustomed to the codebase you’re employer? If you’re willing to talk about this, I’m curious about this too, how does the division of work take place in the software engineering field, what does a senior do and what would a junior do.
And that's a good question. A programmer can handle a fair amount of decently designed code without so much problem. Documentation helps and the first thing/best way to learn a new code base is to work through it, documenting as you go. I've managed to maintain something like 6 large projects, (2 WAN, 3 Intranet, cloud utility) and it wasn't real hard. On the other hand and this is where I got tripped up, there was a report that discussed that one of the hardest/most aggravating things for a developer was having to work with technologies that they didn't have the time (resources) to master. Then you are just outside of your comfort zone all the time. The article was in relation to DevOps. While it isn't hard to maintain a number of large code bases because you are comfortable using the same technology in them all, DevOps means that you are switching technologies, some of which may be unfamiliar, hard to master and ever changing. A heavy load of similar tasks (multiple large code bases, applications) is not so hard to manage. A load of many dissimilar technologies can be crushing. I loved that one CEO didn't want to come out and say that DevOps was hard to maintain. He said there was a bandwidth problem. There are many good developers, but not near as many that can handle the demands of DevOps. I can handle it, a bit uncomfortably if it includes much cloud, but in my long career I have only known a few developers that were comfortable in that storm. What I wonder though is for all his impressive mastery, was Bill (all bow down to Bill) going to be able to keep up with the changing technology.
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It's impossible to answer. In general, one or more programmers are in charge of a section of the code (graphics, database, UI, business logic ... ) Depending on the size of the software, a coder can be in charge of more things, Senior will take care of the most complex things, architecture and/or software design; junior will do simpler things; smaller changes, simple new features and learn from that. In my previous job, after 20 years, I knew most of the software except (advanced) 3D graphics and maths stuff. I needed, I could probably go in and fix bugs; the same way, the maths nerds could come in and fix UI bugs. In my current job, we'll be a smaller team, so I will have to take care of a lot more code.
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
>In general one or more programmers are in charge From what I understand there are generic type of algorithms, each program is made from several of these generic algorithms. When you’re building something you don’t really start from scratch you build with that typical algorithm in mind. They teach you these algorithms in computer science school hence a graduate/junior has an approximate idea what to expect. I don’t have a CS degree I’m just forever making guesses.
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I’m curios how much can a single person do? How much time does it take to become accustomed to the codebase you’re employer? If you’re willing to talk about this, I’m curious about this too, how does the division of work take place in the software engineering field, what does a senior do and what would a junior do.
Everyone else seems to have gone rather meta in their response, so I'll give you my 2¢ concrete example. I just passed the ⅓‐century mark at my current employer. Our active code base includes several products and some items that were originally written in 1999-2000. We have in the neighborhood of 40-50 million lines(*) in that code, ¼ of which is my direct responsibility. Most of that I created originally. Some of it I inherited from others when they left the company. Obviously on any given day I'm not working on all of that, and I certainly don't remember any more than what I'm working on at the moment. Working on code I wrote is more comfortable since I know what to expect. In a lot of cases, working on the code others wrote originally is okay but it's not my favorite thing. There's one product where I've only made a single change in the several years I've had it, because the original author wrote it so that he was the only person who could maintain it [3,000 words of angry, profanity-laden diatribe omitted]. (*) Yes, I know line count isn't a meaningful metric for code size. It's useful for casual conversation.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Everyone else seems to have gone rather meta in their response, so I'll give you my 2¢ concrete example. I just passed the ⅓‐century mark at my current employer. Our active code base includes several products and some items that were originally written in 1999-2000. We have in the neighborhood of 40-50 million lines(*) in that code, ¼ of which is my direct responsibility. Most of that I created originally. Some of it I inherited from others when they left the company. Obviously on any given day I'm not working on all of that, and I certainly don't remember any more than what I'm working on at the moment. Working on code I wrote is more comfortable since I know what to expect. In a lot of cases, working on the code others wrote originally is okay but it's not my favorite thing. There's one product where I've only made a single change in the several years I've had it, because the original author wrote it so that he was the only person who could maintain it [3,000 words of angry, profanity-laden diatribe omitted]. (*) Yes, I know line count isn't a meaningful metric for code size. It's useful for casual conversation.
Software Zen:
delete this;Back-of-envelope calculations: 33 years, 48 weeks of 5 days, that makes roughly 8000 days. You are responsible for 10-12 million lines, most of which you created originally, you say. Let's say 8 of those 10 million lines. So every working day for 33 years, you have produced about a thousand new code lines, going into you employer's repository. Wow! I know for certain that I have never been even close to that, delivering 5000 lines of new production code to the code repository every single week for 33 years! I could never get close to that. I suspect that few others will.
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Back-of-envelope calculations: 33 years, 48 weeks of 5 days, that makes roughly 8000 days. You are responsible for 10-12 million lines, most of which you created originally, you say. Let's say 8 of those 10 million lines. So every working day for 33 years, you have produced about a thousand new code lines, going into you employer's repository. Wow! I know for certain that I have never been even close to that, delivering 5000 lines of new production code to the code repository every single week for 33 years! I could never get close to that. I suspect that few others will.
There is some duplication in the code base coming from forks for new products or new generations of existing products. Over time there is drift between the forks which means tracking the differences. There have been times when I've applied bug fixes in 6 or more places. Still, I am pretty productive. Some days I can write 2,000 lines without breaking a sweat. Other days I only get 5 lines, and 2 of them are dodgy :-O .
Software Zen:
delete this; -
>In general one or more programmers are in charge From what I understand there are generic type of algorithms, each program is made from several of these generic algorithms. When you’re building something you don’t really start from scratch you build with that typical algorithm in mind. They teach you these algorithms in computer science school hence a graduate/junior has an approximate idea what to expect. I don’t have a CS degree I’m just forever making guesses.
A software is more than just a collection of generic algorithms. The big part can be business logic (how things work).
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
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I’m curios how much can a single person do? How much time does it take to become accustomed to the codebase you’re employer? If you’re willing to talk about this, I’m curious about this too, how does the division of work take place in the software engineering field, what does a senior do and what would a junior do.
For a small business with only a few custom apps, would say 3 to 6 months to become competent with the code. It depends a lot on how the code was written and how well the code matches the skill set of the coder.
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I’m curios how much can a single person do? How much time does it take to become accustomed to the codebase you’re employer? If you’re willing to talk about this, I’m curious about this too, how does the division of work take place in the software engineering field, what does a senior do and what would a junior do.
A developer will be responsible for all code he writes. Add in a ‘helper’ and you’ll get a bungled mess, because the added person will never fully understand the context and code: the primary developer will have to split their time between coding and teaching/fixing. :) Hard truth: the person responsible for breaking it is responsible for fixing it.
Time is the differentiation of eternity devised by man to measure the passage of human events. - Manly P. Hall Mark Just another cog in the wheel
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Ravi Bhavnani wrote:
A crawl task is a low risk one that doesn't impact the release.
that shouldn't impact the release :rolleyes: Wouldn't be the first time someone makes a typo or is just next level incompetent :laugh:
Best, Sander Azure DevOps Succinctly (free eBook) Azure Serverless Succinctly (free eBook) Migrating Apps to the Cloud with Azure arrgh.js - Bringing LINQ to JavaScript
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All of it. No design by committee, no politics, no "he's not doing his share".
Exactly. The codebase could be huge. Being "in charge of it" doesn't infer someone needs to understand every nook and cranny. If very little of a large codebase *ever* needs to change, a good developer - even if completely unfamiliar with it - should be able to isolate which parts he needs to understand, and focus on that.
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In large companies, especially in medical imaging companies I've worked for, the codebase will be large, especially since they have to adhere to the DICOM standard, and regulatory requirements. At least 15 to 25 million lines of code in various languages, ranging over C#, Java, and even browser based frontend languages/frameworks. Perhaps there will be just a handful of people in the entire company who have the big picture of the codebase. A developer will only know his part of the code, just that "I have to fix this bug in this part of the UI, or, add this small enhancement here". Some of the more experienced developers may opt for the managerial path. However in a small company, it is unlikely that there'll be such a huge codebase. The individual developer's responsibilities will also be high. A manager here will also wear the developer's hat on occasions.
Greg, Amarnath S >about 30 million lines of code That’s a lot of code you guys, that probably must be old code that keeps piling up although it’s a bit difficult to imagine at first different devices using the same code. On a second thought however it starts to make sense, the devices are probably managed using a PC, if it’s imaging devices they have something in common so a base class could be used for all of them etc. Chances are I have no idea what I’m talking about sorry if I’m saying funny things.
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I’m curios how much can a single person do? How much time does it take to become accustomed to the codebase you’re employer? If you’re willing to talk about this, I’m curious about this too, how does the division of work take place in the software engineering field, what does a senior do and what would a junior do.
I don't think there is ever too much or too little. Although within reason. I think we can owe Dave Cutler many thanks for the Windows NT kernel and whatever else goes with connecting that to Foundation Classes. Torvalds for Linux, Stallman for GCC and EMACS (many nameless heroes for creating or porting to GNU). Of note, I think Tim Sweeney loves to reinvent Unreal Engine every 10 years or so. But I guess if you own it and love the project, Sky's the limit. Ken Thompson...that guy's a machine (I mean B, UNIX, Plan 9, Inferno, UTF-8, Go) and I think he once reverse engineered (hacked) one of the predecessors of the Inkjet printer. Yes, they all weren't alone but I'm pretty sure they were compiling most of the source code in their head.
