Medievalist Coding Movement?
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Gerry Schmitz wrote:
programming (well)
Long ago and even now titles often accrue by longevity. Only sometimes does that reflect above average skill. But idiots have always existed.
At one time, we discussed authors: Martin; Date; Codd; Yourdon; DeMarco; The Gang of Four; ... We're now left with "Musk" and his plagiarism of "grok" and "groking".
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
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raddevus wrote:
but it is quite old (though there are over 34,000 signees)
Googling suggests there are more than 27 million programmers. Even presuming that all of those signers are in fact programmer I would still expect you can get more people to agree to and sign a petition about the best drink when programming.
Other than coffee or tea, I don't think programming improves with drinking; after a while.
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
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raddevus wrote:
but it is quite old (though there are over 34,000 signees)
Googling suggests there are more than 27 million programmers. Even presuming that all of those signers are in fact programmer I would still expect you can get more people to agree to and sign a petition about the best drink when programming.
I thought they had stopped producing Jolt Cola.
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This article was posted a few weeks ago on oct. 20, 2023 What a medievalist coding movement tells us about our modern digital world - SD Times[^] It's a really odd article because: 1. I've never heard of this "movement" before. 2. It mentions...
Quote:
The Software Craftsmanship movement thinks it is a trade closer to carpentry or blacksmithing. They mark their communities on maps with heraldry, publish books with covers featuring pictures of old tools, and discuss the “Scribe’s Oath” at conferences.
3. It also says, that thousands of devs have signed...but doesn't mention where this "digital parchment" exists -- no links in the article.
Quote:
Tens of thousands of developers signed that piece of digital parchment because it meant something to them, just as the artists and craftspeople of the late 19th century flocked to Arts and Crafts.
I found the Manifesto For Software Craftsmanship[^] but it is quite old (though there are over 34,000 signees) -- you have go to this metrics link[^] to see how many have signed since 2009 or so. Also, if you scroll down on the first link you'll see the signees and you can search. It's an odd site. Also, you can sign it too, if you want. Have you ever heard of this before? I think the movement kind of died out really, and I can't figure out why this article was recently written (slow news day I guess). The article mentions a few books that support these ideas: Pragmatic Programmer, The: Your journey to mastery, 20th Anniversary Edition[
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At one time, we discussed authors: Martin; Date; Codd; Yourdon; DeMarco; The Gang of Four; ... We're now left with "Musk" and his plagiarism of "grok" and "groking".
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
Gerry Schmitz wrote:
At one time, we discussed authors:
Yes but at that time we also did it while standing around the water cooler wearing our ties. Perhaps after just returning from the technical book store with a new book. Before returning to our individual offices. Presuming of course that the discussion was not on a college campus. Not to mention of course that the number of books back then for programming was perhaps an order of magnitude smaller. I would say at a certain point at time it was at least two orders smaller. So much easier to discuss the same book. I will note that I am currently reading a O'Reilly Microservices book. I just checked Amazon there are about 35 books with 'Microservices' in the title. Eight of those are from O'Reilly. For comparison O'Reilly did not start publishing books until about 1984 and Coad's first book was in 1990. One just needs to accept that things move fast.
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This article was posted a few weeks ago on oct. 20, 2023 What a medievalist coding movement tells us about our modern digital world - SD Times[^] It's a really odd article because: 1. I've never heard of this "movement" before. 2. It mentions...
Quote:
The Software Craftsmanship movement thinks it is a trade closer to carpentry or blacksmithing. They mark their communities on maps with heraldry, publish books with covers featuring pictures of old tools, and discuss the “Scribe’s Oath” at conferences.
3. It also says, that thousands of devs have signed...but doesn't mention where this "digital parchment" exists -- no links in the article.
Quote:
Tens of thousands of developers signed that piece of digital parchment because it meant something to them, just as the artists and craftspeople of the late 19th century flocked to Arts and Crafts.
I found the Manifesto For Software Craftsmanship[^] but it is quite old (though there are over 34,000 signees) -- you have go to this metrics link[^] to see how many have signed since 2009 or so. Also, if you scroll down on the first link you'll see the signees and you can search. It's an odd site. Also, you can sign it too, if you want. Have you ever heard of this before? I think the movement kind of died out really, and I can't figure out why this article was recently written (slow news day I guess). The article mentions a few books that support these ideas: Pragmatic Programmer, The: Your journey to mastery, 20th Anniversary Edition[
LOL, I once compared programmers to construction workers on this forum and people weren't having it :) My point being that professional programmers have to make things work in a practical sense in the real world, as opposed to the sort of theoretical programming that computer scientists do. So this is interesting to me. Is there a secret society behind this bent on world domination? How do I get into the inner circle, is there a special handshake? Or do you have to blink in binary or something?
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raddevus wrote:
The Software Craftsmanship movement
I heard of that years ago. I signed it. I wish it would say when I did.
PIEBALDconsult wrote:
I signed it.
Very cool. From reading your comments over the years I would think you are a craftsman (and not an Agilist). :-D
PIEBALDconsult wrote:
I wish it would say when I did
Actually you can see when you signed it. I searched for anyone named "paul" who signed and this is what it looks like[^]. What is the name you signed under? Just type it into the search box (have to scroll down a bit on the main page) and search and it'll show you when you signed.
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PIEBALDconsult wrote:
I signed it.
Very cool. From reading your comments over the years I would think you are a craftsman (and not an Agilist). :-D
PIEBALDconsult wrote:
I wish it would say when I did
Actually you can see when you signed it. I searched for anyone named "paul" who signed and this is what it looks like[^]. What is the name you signed under? Just type it into the search box (have to scroll down a bit on the main page) and search and it'll show you when you signed.
raddevus wrote:
not an Agilist
I definitely do Agile (or maybe lower-case agile). I don't see those as mutually exclusive. Not a dogmatist, I think those types are the bad ones, regardless of dogma. Oh, I kept scrolling down and using the browser's find in page until I found myself.
3682 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Phoenix, AZ) 5/12/2009Now to complain that they don't use an ISO 8601 format... :mad: -
LOL, I once compared programmers to construction workers on this forum and people weren't having it :) My point being that professional programmers have to make things work in a practical sense in the real world, as opposed to the sort of theoretical programming that computer scientists do. So this is interesting to me. Is there a secret society behind this bent on world domination? How do I get into the inner circle, is there a special handshake? Or do you have to blink in binary or something?
StatementTerminator wrote:
I once compared programmers to construction workers on this forum and people weren't having it
I like the analogy. I'm working on a thing right now that includes using DependencyInjection with Service and Repository Classes that requires mostly just copy/paste to adhere to the ARCHITECT'S Pattern and it is a whole lot like digging a hole that we will fill with gravel and pave over. :rolleyes: Blinking in binary is a great idea but if we have a lot of meetings we will all probably get headaches. :laugh:
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LOL, I once compared programmers to construction workers on this forum and people weren't having it :) My point being that professional programmers have to make things work in a practical sense in the real world, as opposed to the sort of theoretical programming that computer scientists do. So this is interesting to me. Is there a secret society behind this bent on world domination? How do I get into the inner circle, is there a special handshake? Or do you have to blink in binary or something?
StatementTerminator wrote:
compared programmers to construction workers
Software development is just a very different thing to everything, it just doesn't compare. About the closest people come is to compare to a musical composer or someone writing cooking recipes, but that still misses the mark.
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raddevus wrote:
not an Agilist
I definitely do Agile (or maybe lower-case agile). I don't see those as mutually exclusive. Not a dogmatist, I think those types are the bad ones, regardless of dogma. Oh, I kept scrolling down and using the browser's find in page until I found myself.
3682 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Phoenix, AZ) 5/12/2009Now to complain that they don't use an ISO 8601 format... :mad:PIEBALDconsult wrote:
I definitely do Agile (or maybe lower-case agile).
PIEBALDconsult wrote:
Not a dogmatist, I think those types are the bad ones, regardless of dogma.
Wow, I agree with you 100%!! I like to take all the good parts and leave the useless dogmatic arguments behind. Whatever helps me get to good, maintainable, robust code the best is my choice. I think Tech books / Tech publishing industry has created more problems really because many things -- like Agile and Agile Scrum can be explained in a pamphlet ---- but you can't sell a pamphlet for $59.99 And, most people never finish those books anyways. It's a crazy system. (And, I love to read tech books) Meanwhile, real devs, sort out the chaff, use the good stuff and make things happen.
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StatementTerminator wrote:
I once compared programmers to construction workers on this forum and people weren't having it
I like the analogy. I'm working on a thing right now that includes using DependencyInjection with Service and Repository Classes that requires mostly just copy/paste to adhere to the ARCHITECT'S Pattern and it is a whole lot like digging a hole that we will fill with gravel and pave over. :rolleyes: Blinking in binary is a great idea but if we have a lot of meetings we will all probably get headaches. :laugh:
raddevus wrote:
copy/paste
Which construction workers can't do. They have to hit the nail on the head right each and every time. And their version of undo isn't perfect either.
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This article was posted a few weeks ago on oct. 20, 2023 What a medievalist coding movement tells us about our modern digital world - SD Times[^] It's a really odd article because: 1. I've never heard of this "movement" before. 2. It mentions...
Quote:
The Software Craftsmanship movement thinks it is a trade closer to carpentry or blacksmithing. They mark their communities on maps with heraldry, publish books with covers featuring pictures of old tools, and discuss the “Scribe’s Oath” at conferences.
3. It also says, that thousands of devs have signed...but doesn't mention where this "digital parchment" exists -- no links in the article.
Quote:
Tens of thousands of developers signed that piece of digital parchment because it meant something to them, just as the artists and craftspeople of the late 19th century flocked to Arts and Crafts.
I found the Manifesto For Software Craftsmanship[^] but it is quite old (though there are over 34,000 signees) -- you have go to this metrics link[^] to see how many have signed since 2009 or so. Also, if you scroll down on the first link you'll see the signees and you can search. It's an odd site. Also, you can sign it too, if you want. Have you ever heard of this before? I think the movement kind of died out really, and I can't figure out why this article was recently written (slow news day I guess). The article mentions a few books that support these ideas: Pragmatic Programmer, The: Your journey to mastery, 20th Anniversary Edition[
Haven't bothered to check that site yet, but it seems to me as if this is an offshoot of those "clean code" folks, for rather self-serving reasons....
