I thought it was a cardinal sin to force a server to reboot...?
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...hence why I used Server 2022 when I built my latest dev VM. I got tired of finding out my previous Windows 10 dev VM had rebooted right after Patch Tuesday. But no, my dev machine rebooted last night at 00:45am. Lost an awful lot of context. Meanwhile, the VM *host*, running Server 2012 R2, back when it was still supported and getting updates, would patiently wait for months if I just let it. Surely server admins aren't putting up with this. Surely MS hasn't changed the default behavior so a server OS can now reboot if it just feels like it.
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...hence why I used Server 2022 when I built my latest dev VM. I got tired of finding out my previous Windows 10 dev VM had rebooted right after Patch Tuesday. But no, my dev machine rebooted last night at 00:45am. Lost an awful lot of context. Meanwhile, the VM *host*, running Server 2012 R2, back when it was still supported and getting updates, would patiently wait for months if I just let it. Surely server admins aren't putting up with this. Surely MS hasn't changed the default behavior so a server OS can now reboot if it just feels like it.
Dunno. My Win 10 desktop system keeps chugging along waiting patiently for me to apply updates when I'm good and ready.
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...hence why I used Server 2022 when I built my latest dev VM. I got tired of finding out my previous Windows 10 dev VM had rebooted right after Patch Tuesday. But no, my dev machine rebooted last night at 00:45am. Lost an awful lot of context. Meanwhile, the VM *host*, running Server 2012 R2, back when it was still supported and getting updates, would patiently wait for months if I just let it. Surely server admins aren't putting up with this. Surely MS hasn't changed the default behavior so a server OS can now reboot if it just feels like it.
dandy72 wrote:
Surely server admins aren't putting up with this.
Not sure what you mean. Standard large distributed system architecture design would be to expect servers to reboot, fail, and even just disappear (taken down and not restored.) As an example AWS SLA is 99.99% per month. So it will fail. You only get back (money) for the time it was down if it was down for more than that. And it is generally up to you to figure it out and prove it.
dandy72 wrote:
so a server OS can now reboot if it just feels like it.
I believe one can turn patching off entirely. That however only prevents reboots due to a patch. Restarts for other reasons are possible. Some that I can think of - Manual reboot request - Perhaps detected error. So OS and/or hardware detected problem and restarted. - Power problem.
dandy72 wrote:
a server OS can now reboot if it just feels like it.
Perhaps not applicable to you but at least AWS will force updates for certain cases. They give notice but if the user has not updated the system by the specified date they will just do it.
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...hence why I used Server 2022 when I built my latest dev VM. I got tired of finding out my previous Windows 10 dev VM had rebooted right after Patch Tuesday. But no, my dev machine rebooted last night at 00:45am. Lost an awful lot of context. Meanwhile, the VM *host*, running Server 2012 R2, back when it was still supported and getting updates, would patiently wait for months if I just let it. Surely server admins aren't putting up with this. Surely MS hasn't changed the default behavior so a server OS can now reboot if it just feels like it.
dandy72 wrote:
Surely server admins aren't putting up with this.
In the book by Raymond Chen, The Old New Thing (well, since the book is a selection of his blog posts, you can find it on the net as well), he tells a story about a server that had a small memory leak causing it to crash at intervals of a few days. The server had to be available 24/7, and debugging it while it was operational was not possible. So they installed two servers, with load balancing software. When one of them was getting close to memory saturation, they trimmed the load balancer to send all new tasks to the other machine, let those jobs already on the first one run to completion, and then they could start the analysis of the memory structures. The other machine was filling up, so they had to reboot the first one, with a clean heap, and turn the load balancer the other way, to send all new jobs to the first machine, and do further debugging on the second one. As long as they were debugging, and afterwards, fixing the software, they kept the load balancer switching jobs to alternating servers while the opposite one was rebooted. Once the software was fixed, there was no more need for two servers; the original one had alone much more capacity than needed, so the other one could be returned. Stories like this are what makes "The Old New Thing" really worth reading. There are several of them. (The book is from 2006, so it is somewhat 'historical' - and yet it is worth reading. So is his blog, which is updated several times a week, almost daily. For those unaware of it: Raymond Chen: The Old New Thing[^])
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...hence why I used Server 2022 when I built my latest dev VM. I got tired of finding out my previous Windows 10 dev VM had rebooted right after Patch Tuesday. But no, my dev machine rebooted last night at 00:45am. Lost an awful lot of context. Meanwhile, the VM *host*, running Server 2012 R2, back when it was still supported and getting updates, would patiently wait for months if I just let it. Surely server admins aren't putting up with this. Surely MS hasn't changed the default behavior so a server OS can now reboot if it just feels like it.
it's the same old elephanting Microsoft bullcrap. Allegedly, there is a way to stop it, but there is a special place in hell for the manager/team or whatever that forces this crap.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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Dunno. My Win 10 desktop system keeps chugging along waiting patiently for me to apply updates when I'm good and ready.
I've never managed to stop the MS bologna. I can hold it off, but if I say take a weekend off and don't notice a pending "update", I'll find a clean screen the next morning. I'm actually surprised there hasn't been a class action lawsuit to stop this crap. I'm assuming deep in the bowels of MS, they have servers running their software. I cannot remotely imagine they tolerate server reboots in their own facility.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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dandy72 wrote:
Surely server admins aren't putting up with this.
Not sure what you mean. Standard large distributed system architecture design would be to expect servers to reboot, fail, and even just disappear (taken down and not restored.) As an example AWS SLA is 99.99% per month. So it will fail. You only get back (money) for the time it was down if it was down for more than that. And it is generally up to you to figure it out and prove it.
dandy72 wrote:
so a server OS can now reboot if it just feels like it.
I believe one can turn patching off entirely. That however only prevents reboots due to a patch. Restarts for other reasons are possible. Some that I can think of - Manual reboot request - Perhaps detected error. So OS and/or hardware detected problem and restarted. - Power problem.
dandy72 wrote:
a server OS can now reboot if it just feels like it.
Perhaps not applicable to you but at least AWS will force updates for certain cases. They give notice but if the user has not updated the system by the specified date they will just do it.
dude, some of us may run "server" OS, but I suspect we're talking about a machine almost certainly used in development. I do expect interruptions, it's why I have a UPS in my office. The context is MS forcibly rebooting machines because they are just stupid and have their heads where the sun doesn't shine. I'm being polite. Ask me how I really feel. There is not another OS in the world that forces updates/reboots like this. It's just stupid. Customers I work with have some sort of enterprise version where the forced reboot is clearly disabled. I've logged into these machines for months and seen "you need to reboot" popups. I'm not the sysadmin, so it's not up to me to reboot things.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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dandy72 wrote:
Surely server admins aren't putting up with this.
In the book by Raymond Chen, The Old New Thing (well, since the book is a selection of his blog posts, you can find it on the net as well), he tells a story about a server that had a small memory leak causing it to crash at intervals of a few days. The server had to be available 24/7, and debugging it while it was operational was not possible. So they installed two servers, with load balancing software. When one of them was getting close to memory saturation, they trimmed the load balancer to send all new tasks to the other machine, let those jobs already on the first one run to completion, and then they could start the analysis of the memory structures. The other machine was filling up, so they had to reboot the first one, with a clean heap, and turn the load balancer the other way, to send all new jobs to the first machine, and do further debugging on the second one. As long as they were debugging, and afterwards, fixing the software, they kept the load balancer switching jobs to alternating servers while the opposite one was rebooted. Once the software was fixed, there was no more need for two servers; the original one had alone much more capacity than needed, so the other one could be returned. Stories like this are what makes "The Old New Thing" really worth reading. There are several of them. (The book is from 2006, so it is somewhat 'historical' - and yet it is worth reading. So is his blog, which is updated several times a week, almost daily. For those unaware of it: Raymond Chen: The Old New Thing[^])
that's a cool hack/workaround.
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
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it's the same old elephanting Microsoft bullcrap. Allegedly, there is a way to stop it, but there is a special place in hell for the manager/team or whatever that forces this crap.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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If you keep up that style, you run the risk of all your posts also being classified as "bullcrap" and "bologna".
But as the OP asked, is it appropriate to just reboot servers "because"? And the answer is no. Never. And it got so bad with these idiots they had to put enterprise hooks in to turn this off. One writes software to be stable. Microsoft has deliberately engineered a sporadic reboot that none of my customers would ever tolerate. It's criminal. Let me give you one simple example. I need to be able to run soak tests for weeks/months at a time. I have multiple UPS', I am very careful with my hardware, etc. I've developed under openVMS, Solaris, HPUX, IBM AIX, Linux and Microsoft. The only company and OS that forces reboots is Microsoft. So, I'm not sure what the point of your comment is. The OP asked a simple question, and the answer is no. No OS should ever just reboot itself. So, I picked bologna to avoid profanity. You really don't want me speaking what I'm really thinking.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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...hence why I used Server 2022 when I built my latest dev VM. I got tired of finding out my previous Windows 10 dev VM had rebooted right after Patch Tuesday. But no, my dev machine rebooted last night at 00:45am. Lost an awful lot of context. Meanwhile, the VM *host*, running Server 2012 R2, back when it was still supported and getting updates, would patiently wait for months if I just let it. Surely server admins aren't putting up with this. Surely MS hasn't changed the default behavior so a server OS can now reboot if it just feels like it.
I haven't used Windows Server in years. But yeah, there was always supposed to be a reason to shutdown or reboot - even if there were updates. But, I've switched exclusively to Linux/Unix and will never in my life move back to Windows for a server. Unless I have to work for that is. Otherwise, nope.
Jeremy Falcon
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But as the OP asked, is it appropriate to just reboot servers "because"? And the answer is no. Never. And it got so bad with these idiots they had to put enterprise hooks in to turn this off. One writes software to be stable. Microsoft has deliberately engineered a sporadic reboot that none of my customers would ever tolerate. It's criminal. Let me give you one simple example. I need to be able to run soak tests for weeks/months at a time. I have multiple UPS', I am very careful with my hardware, etc. I've developed under openVMS, Solaris, HPUX, IBM AIX, Linux and Microsoft. The only company and OS that forces reboots is Microsoft. So, I'm not sure what the point of your comment is. The OP asked a simple question, and the answer is no. No OS should ever just reboot itself. So, I picked bologna to avoid profanity. You really don't want me speaking what I'm really thinking.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
charlieg wrote:
So, I'm not sure what the point of your comment is.
Just ignore him. Trust me. He's got issues man. There was nothing wrong with your post.
Jeremy Falcon
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But as the OP asked, is it appropriate to just reboot servers "because"? And the answer is no. Never. And it got so bad with these idiots they had to put enterprise hooks in to turn this off. One writes software to be stable. Microsoft has deliberately engineered a sporadic reboot that none of my customers would ever tolerate. It's criminal. Let me give you one simple example. I need to be able to run soak tests for weeks/months at a time. I have multiple UPS', I am very careful with my hardware, etc. I've developed under openVMS, Solaris, HPUX, IBM AIX, Linux and Microsoft. The only company and OS that forces reboots is Microsoft. So, I'm not sure what the point of your comment is. The OP asked a simple question, and the answer is no. No OS should ever just reboot itself. So, I picked bologna to avoid profanity. You really don't want me speaking what I'm really thinking.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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But here is the deal: "I stop my car to refuel it." You do that. Now imagine going down the road and having your car reboot itself... without your permission. I'm not quite sure what the argument is. Tell you what. Go into work and start unplugging peoples' computers and tell them it's for their own good. please post copies of your medical bills :).
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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I haven't used Windows Server in years. But yeah, there was always supposed to be a reason to shutdown or reboot - even if there were updates. But, I've switched exclusively to Linux/Unix and will never in my life move back to Windows for a server. Unless I have to work for that is. Otherwise, nope.
Jeremy Falcon
To be clear, it has nothing to do with server - this is a Microsoft cancer. I've had Windows 7 Pro, Windows 10 Pro, Windows 11 Pro (annoying OS), and though I update the registry, MS figures out a way to reboot things. I've lost VMs running month long soak tests, because I finally had to sleep. It's simply absurd.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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To be clear, it has nothing to do with server - this is a Microsoft cancer. I've had Windows 7 Pro, Windows 10 Pro, Windows 11 Pro (annoying OS), and though I update the registry, MS figures out a way to reboot things. I've lost VMs running month long soak tests, because I finally had to sleep. It's simply absurd.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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I've never managed to stop the MS bologna. I can hold it off, but if I say take a weekend off and don't notice a pending "update", I'll find a clean screen the next morning. I'm actually surprised there hasn't been a class action lawsuit to stop this crap. I'm assuming deep in the bowels of MS, they have servers running their software. I cannot remotely imagine they tolerate server reboots in their own facility.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
Microsoft makes a point to dogfood their own products. They even came up with the verb "dogfood" That tells me there's probably a way to turn the "feature" off, even if it's on by default (which it shouldn't be, but that's MS for you)
Check out my IoT graphics library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx And my IoT UI/User Experience library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix
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...hence why I used Server 2022 when I built my latest dev VM. I got tired of finding out my previous Windows 10 dev VM had rebooted right after Patch Tuesday. But no, my dev machine rebooted last night at 00:45am. Lost an awful lot of context. Meanwhile, the VM *host*, running Server 2012 R2, back when it was still supported and getting updates, would patiently wait for months if I just let it. Surely server admins aren't putting up with this. Surely MS hasn't changed the default behavior so a server OS can now reboot if it just feels like it.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out — because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out — because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out — because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me — and there was no one left to speak for me.
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...hence why I used Server 2022 when I built my latest dev VM. I got tired of finding out my previous Windows 10 dev VM had rebooted right after Patch Tuesday. But no, my dev machine rebooted last night at 00:45am. Lost an awful lot of context. Meanwhile, the VM *host*, running Server 2012 R2, back when it was still supported and getting updates, would patiently wait for months if I just let it. Surely server admins aren't putting up with this. Surely MS hasn't changed the default behavior so a server OS can now reboot if it just feels like it.