Older developers - have you noticed a change in your sleep habits?
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Last night to bed at 11 up at 3:30 Night before to bed at 10:30 up at 2 I'm 74 and have had sleeping problems for many years.
As the aircraft designer said, "Simplicate and add lightness". PartsBin an Electronics Part Organizer - Release Version 1.3.0 JaxCoder.com Latest Article: SimpleWizardUpdate
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charlieg wrote:
Is this an age thing?
Yes. Or at least probably depending on age.
charlieg wrote:
She's snoring within 5 minutes and has an internal alarm clock for 5am
People tend to think getting older means exactly the same thing for everyone. It doesn't. Sometimes older people sleep better than when they were young. Following seems like a good link A Good Night's Sleep | National Institute on Aging[^]
I'll read it. FWIW, I believe the beginning of wisdom is realizing you lack it and ask questions. Hence this thread.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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Am 58. Usually go to bed at around 11 pm. And get up around 5.30 am. No disturbance except for occasional not-so-good dreams. One important thing. All digital devices are shut down before retiring to bed. Especially the mobile phone will be set to airplane ✈️ mode at 11 pm everyday. Only at 5.30 am will it be brought back live. I feel this matters in our sleep cycle.
I always leave my phone downstairs. Always. My inlays (in laws, my laptop keyboard is dying) live 5 houses up the street, and if you think I or we have sleep problems, my MIL is legendary. My wife charges her phone next to the bed. The good thing is she has the latest iPhone and it radically dims the display at night. HOWEVER, she does get a number of butt dials and this launches the phone. I've found I'm very sensitive to light variations. Neither of us really sleep deep. Now before all of you noobs go bonkers, I've raised 11 children. You old timers already know this. So the wife and I are very sensitive to small sounds (like cracking diapers from toddlers roaming the halls).
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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Hehehe... I've been here more than 2 decades, and I still love it, even though my job no longer needs me to program. I go to bed between 10 PM and 4 AM, depending on absolutely nothing. If there's nothing interesting to do, it's early; if I'm engrossed in something, it's near dawn before I lay me down. Sometimes I wake in a couple of hours, sometimes it's hard to wake up. I have a bottle of scotch for that. I retired 7 years ago, then went back to work for twice the salary last May; it's fun! The Dr gave me Trazadone to help get to sleep; I rarely take one, and the effect only lasts a couple of hours. Of course, he prescribed a year supply, so I have enough to last several lifetimes. Regardless of when I get to sleep, most mornings I wake around 5 - 6 AM, then roll over and solve all the world's problems while I wait for the alarm to fire off. As for wives, I got over that expensive habit 35 years ago, and haven't met anyone worth the effort to settle down with since. Even if I did, she wouldn't last one night; I snore enough that no one but me is getting any sleep, or so I'm told by occasionally sober witnesses. I'm 69 next month, and looking forward to it.
Will Rogers never met me.
:) I tried the med thing - I wanted to jump out of my skin, or felt like I should. As for getting over the wife thing, yeah I have a keeper (if she'll keep me).
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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I've been on this site for nigh 2 decades. The honesty has always been concerning, refreshing and challenging. Many of us have been here so long, we are either reaching or have reached the end of our "careers" - whatever the hell that means. For me, my career has been running out of mouths to feed before running out of money. Setting humor aside... I'm 64. Here comes the question... How are you sleeping? I tend to crash around 10 or 11. But if I've been thinking about something, within a few hours I am wide awake. It's a little after 3am EST. Is this an age thing? Don't go medical on me - I'm just looking for general thoughts. I have a bottle of melatonin - meh. I tried a bottle of sleep aid from Costco (never again). This is border line (to be honest, probably well past) sleep disorder which is weird for me. Meanwhile, I hate my wife ;) She's snoring within 5 minutes and has an internal alarm clock for 5am...
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
all of you that have replied - I truly appreciate it. Sometimes, we get isolated and lean toward concluding that it's just our problem. Keep paddling.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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so you just suck it up and move on? I know my mom did.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
Getting old ain't for sissies!
As the aircraft designer said, "Simplicate and add lightness". PartsBin an Electronics Part Organizer - Release Version 1.3.0 JaxCoder.com Latest Article: SimpleWizardUpdate
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Difficult yes. But the only reason is I wanted to ask specific dietary questions - any maybe life things. And to keep it completely private. I'll search and see what I can find. I despise google - it's all ad's and lies. I was just shooting for some raw data from people like me. For example, I have often woken up in the dead of night knowing where the bug is. etc
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
charlieg wrote:
For example, I have often woken up in the dead of night knowing where the bug is. etc
That's been happening to me for over 40 years. Spend hours on a problem, eventually go to bed, wake up at 4AM having worked it out subconsciously... FYI, I'm 68. Often don't get to sleep until after 2AM. Usually set alarm for 7:30AM, but the cats sometimes pre-empt this often resulting in them getting shut out of the bedroom - they run downstairs thinking I've got up to feed them...
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Here's to Old Eddie, a timeless spirit in a world that sometimes forgets the value of experience! As the years add up like chapters in a well-worn book, your journey becomes a testament to resilience and wisdom. In an industry that may be obsessed with the new, you stand as a living testament to the richness that comes with age. Here's to the countless stories etched in the lines on your face, each one a treasure trove of lessons and laughter. May your days continue to be filled with the warmth of memories and the joy of knowing that every year adds a new layer to the masterpiece that is your life. Happy 74th, with anticipation for the adventures that 75 will undoubtedly bring! 🎉🥳 (thanks chap gpt)
Caveat Emptor. "Progress doesn't come from early risers – progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things." Lazarus Long
You're pretty cool yourself. :)
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I brew my own beer. Chemist. Turn water, sugar, yeast, hops, and grain into beer. Turn the beer into urine. Life is good. :)
>64 Some days the dragon wins. Suck it up.
Separate the urine into water and urea. Use the water for the beer, and the urea as fertilizer for the grain. :)
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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I've been on this site for nigh 2 decades. The honesty has always been concerning, refreshing and challenging. Many of us have been here so long, we are either reaching or have reached the end of our "careers" - whatever the hell that means. For me, my career has been running out of mouths to feed before running out of money. Setting humor aside... I'm 64. Here comes the question... How are you sleeping? I tend to crash around 10 or 11. But if I've been thinking about something, within a few hours I am wide awake. It's a little after 3am EST. Is this an age thing? Don't go medical on me - I'm just looking for general thoughts. I have a bottle of melatonin - meh. I tried a bottle of sleep aid from Costco (never again). This is border line (to be honest, probably well past) sleep disorder which is weird for me. Meanwhile, I hate my wife ;) She's snoring within 5 minutes and has an internal alarm clock for 5am...
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
Same happens here. I crash arount 10 PM, sleeping one cycle - about 1.5 hours, then awake for a cycle. Or two. But everything is OK if I can sleep till 7 AM. If I survive this 10 PM shutdown, I am up till ~ 1 AM, but then it is better not to sleep till 7 AM. Then 6 AM - 6:30 AM is the best. Force shutdown: Valeriana (Valeriana Officinalis + Passiflora Incarnata + Humulus Lupulus) Harmony capsule. According to my Honor Band 5, it significantly increases the amount of deep sleep, which translates to being more awaken next day.
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I've been on this site for nigh 2 decades. The honesty has always been concerning, refreshing and challenging. Many of us have been here so long, we are either reaching or have reached the end of our "careers" - whatever the hell that means. For me, my career has been running out of mouths to feed before running out of money. Setting humor aside... I'm 64. Here comes the question... How are you sleeping? I tend to crash around 10 or 11. But if I've been thinking about something, within a few hours I am wide awake. It's a little after 3am EST. Is this an age thing? Don't go medical on me - I'm just looking for general thoughts. I have a bottle of melatonin - meh. I tried a bottle of sleep aid from Costco (never again). This is border line (to be honest, probably well past) sleep disorder which is weird for me. Meanwhile, I hate my wife ;) She's snoring within 5 minutes and has an internal alarm clock for 5am...
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
Going a bit medical (sorry)... Have yourself checked for sleep apnea, it can come on later in life due to slack(en)ing of various throat muscles. It can wake you up and often causes excess urination. Give the melatonin a chance, the wife and I use it but it needs about a week to really kick in. Get your prostate checked, mine was 4 times the normal size, a simple op cleared it and got rid of one of my main reasons for waking up in the night. However, I still wake up at 3 am if I have been doing anything more than social media on the computer before going to bed. Usually I have to get up, have a cup of tea and google whatever was bothering me (last night it was asynchronous Python) and then I can get back off to sleep. So the best advice I can give you is to watch a couple of episodes of M.A.S.H. (or anything similar that you know off by heart) before going to bed.
So old that I did my first coding in octal via switches on a DEC PDP 8
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I've been on this site for nigh 2 decades. The honesty has always been concerning, refreshing and challenging. Many of us have been here so long, we are either reaching or have reached the end of our "careers" - whatever the hell that means. For me, my career has been running out of mouths to feed before running out of money. Setting humor aside... I'm 64. Here comes the question... How are you sleeping? I tend to crash around 10 or 11. But if I've been thinking about something, within a few hours I am wide awake. It's a little after 3am EST. Is this an age thing? Don't go medical on me - I'm just looking for general thoughts. I have a bottle of melatonin - meh. I tried a bottle of sleep aid from Costco (never again). This is border line (to be honest, probably well past) sleep disorder which is weird for me. Meanwhile, I hate my wife ;) She's snoring within 5 minutes and has an internal alarm clock for 5am...
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
I'm 61 and like a lot of you I used to work into the wee small hours and get up mid-morning. During lockdown I needed to impose some discipline on my life and started going to bed at 09:00 and getting up at 05:30 - every day of the week. Occasional nocturnal cat issues aside (who knew?) I now sleep better than I have ever done in my life. I wish I had done this years ago.
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Difficult yes. But the only reason is I wanted to ask specific dietary questions - any maybe life things. And to keep it completely private. I'll search and see what I can find. I despise google - it's all ad's and lies. I was just shooting for some raw data from people like me. For example, I have often woken up in the dead of night knowing where the bug is. etc
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
I am too young to be in target panel, so not of a great help - but I wish you all the best and to stay forever healthy :thumbsup:
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I've been on this site for nigh 2 decades. The honesty has always been concerning, refreshing and challenging. Many of us have been here so long, we are either reaching or have reached the end of our "careers" - whatever the hell that means. For me, my career has been running out of mouths to feed before running out of money. Setting humor aside... I'm 64. Here comes the question... How are you sleeping? I tend to crash around 10 or 11. But if I've been thinking about something, within a few hours I am wide awake. It's a little after 3am EST. Is this an age thing? Don't go medical on me - I'm just looking for general thoughts. I have a bottle of melatonin - meh. I tried a bottle of sleep aid from Costco (never again). This is border line (to be honest, probably well past) sleep disorder which is weird for me. Meanwhile, I hate my wife ;) She's snoring within 5 minutes and has an internal alarm clock for 5am...
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
My sleeping in getting less and less. I'll go to bed around 01:00 (earlier makes no sense for me) and I am awake at 07:00. :zzz: During the day I am tired but that is easily cured by black coffee :java: and Red Bull. (I have to support Max. He is my countryman ;) ) But I tend to 'wake up' around 19:00 and when bed-time comes I am not sleepy at all. I noticed that it get worse with age. (when I was born, I could sleep 20 hours a day :laugh: )
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I've been on this site for nigh 2 decades. The honesty has always been concerning, refreshing and challenging. Many of us have been here so long, we are either reaching or have reached the end of our "careers" - whatever the hell that means. For me, my career has been running out of mouths to feed before running out of money. Setting humor aside... I'm 64. Here comes the question... How are you sleeping? I tend to crash around 10 or 11. But if I've been thinking about something, within a few hours I am wide awake. It's a little after 3am EST. Is this an age thing? Don't go medical on me - I'm just looking for general thoughts. I have a bottle of melatonin - meh. I tried a bottle of sleep aid from Costco (never again). This is border line (to be honest, probably well past) sleep disorder which is weird for me. Meanwhile, I hate my wife ;) She's snoring within 5 minutes and has an internal alarm clock for 5am...
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
As George Carlin would say, I'm pushing 70 :) and running (as well as working on) a laundry list of projects. The short answer to your question is sort of, lol. I still drink a glass of water shortly before bed, so there's a wakeup call around 2am. If nature calls again before 5am, it can take an effort to go back to sleep. If I know my day will be hell, or I have an unfinished concept that is nagging, I'll work hard to set my mind on something unrelated to fall back to sleep for an hour or so. I won't physically get out of bed before 5am but it's a rare day that I get up after 6. My own observations are: - I drink a few cups of coffee in the morning; sometimes a small glass of coke at lunch and zero caffeine the rest of the day. As it wears off by early evening, I'm losing my edge on getting work done on most days. - I do tend to nod off between 9pm and 10pm unless the TV really has my interest. Last night I fell asleep at 9:05 during the Sunday night game, woke up around 10 and stayed awake until the end of the game around midnight. - I'm fine at 6 or more hours of sleep generally. The problem is I can generally function for about half a day on only a few hours of sleep. If I manage to stay awake later, getting up at 6-6:30 isn't difficult. - I find standard time to be much tougher on sleep than savings time, along with the shorter days as well. The need to pee, probably prostate related, doesn't in itself torch my sleep. My Samsung health app says most of the time, those breaks are less than 10 minutes. I try to keep that as a mechanical function, get up, go, and go back to bed without thinking about anything else. The four to five am time can be tough, but I try not to give in. The app isn't totally accurate, but it gives me a decent picture of sleep/heart rate/stress/O2. Having lived in Colorado for more than 30 years and way down south at the moment, my sleep is generally better. I'd put two factors that are affected by that. First, the weather lets me get more exercise during the day and second, being closer to equator allows time to be a bit more balanced.
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Going a bit medical (sorry)... Have yourself checked for sleep apnea, it can come on later in life due to slack(en)ing of various throat muscles. It can wake you up and often causes excess urination. Give the melatonin a chance, the wife and I use it but it needs about a week to really kick in. Get your prostate checked, mine was 4 times the normal size, a simple op cleared it and got rid of one of my main reasons for waking up in the night. However, I still wake up at 3 am if I have been doing anything more than social media on the computer before going to bed. Usually I have to get up, have a cup of tea and google whatever was bothering me (last night it was asynchronous Python) and then I can get back off to sleep. So the best advice I can give you is to watch a couple of episodes of M.A.S.H. (or anything similar that you know off by heart) before going to bed.
So old that I did my first coding in octal via switches on a DEC PDP 8
"give the melatonin a chance" - interesting, I had not known that. I'll keep working at it. Prostate - yeah, I see the P man in December.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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I've been on this site for nigh 2 decades. The honesty has always been concerning, refreshing and challenging. Many of us have been here so long, we are either reaching or have reached the end of our "careers" - whatever the hell that means. For me, my career has been running out of mouths to feed before running out of money. Setting humor aside... I'm 64. Here comes the question... How are you sleeping? I tend to crash around 10 or 11. But if I've been thinking about something, within a few hours I am wide awake. It's a little after 3am EST. Is this an age thing? Don't go medical on me - I'm just looking for general thoughts. I have a bottle of melatonin - meh. I tried a bottle of sleep aid from Costco (never again). This is border line (to be honest, probably well past) sleep disorder which is weird for me. Meanwhile, I hate my wife ;) She's snoring within 5 minutes and has an internal alarm clock for 5am...
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
Well, I've always been a morning person. So, now being past retirement age (but not retired!), here is my work day schedule (weekends are different). Bedtime routine starts at 9pm. Shower and associated activities, in bed, read for a few minutes, lights out at or near 10pm. Wake up (according to the Fitbit) a couple of times during the night that I usually don't remember, then when the alarm clock goes off at 5:15am, start the day. If I had a technical problem from the day before, I may wake up around 3am with the epiphany of how to fix it and then fall back asleep. I just need to remember it after the alarm clock goes off a couple of hours later. Usually, I can and if not, a few minutes of looking at the problem will help recall the miracle solution later in the day. I work from home, so work starts at 6:30am until 11:30am...then lunch and TV (usually I watch General Hospital from the day before...Monday I watch Friday's episode, and so on) and skip the commercials. I can usually watch another show from the DVR, too. Back to work at 2pm for 2.5-3 more hours for a time-clock measured total of 10-10.5 hours/day. Boss knows and he's okay with that, as he's a programmer/developer too and knows the inspiration strikes when it wants, not on a company-driven timeframe. I do not eat supper (trying intermittent fasting to lose some weight). Which translates to, "hubby makes his dinner, cuts up cherry tomatoes, gives them to me to eat with two fiber pills and a glass of water". I was happy with just the water, but he doesn't understand what fasting means, I guess. Now, I will admit...sometimes, if the second program off the DVR is a game show, I might take a 20 minute nap :zzz: at lunch. If I can sneak in an episode of Babylon 5, I'm wide awake for all of lunch.
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I fall asleep (too) easily in the evening, but I wake up at 4h or 4h30 in the morning and cannot go back to sleep. I don't remember the last time I've setup an alarm. There was some changes due to health issues.
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
I would encourage all with sleep problems to get a sleep study done. My wife nagged me until I did about 5 years ago, and wound up with a CPAP (a BPAP technically). Greatly improved my sleeping habits to the point I almost cannot even take a simple nap without it, but well worth the 6 - 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep w/o sleep medicine or supplements.
Pound to fit, paint to match
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Separate the urine into water and urea. Use the water for the beer, and the urea as fertilizer for the grain. :)
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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I've been on this site for nigh 2 decades. The honesty has always been concerning, refreshing and challenging. Many of us have been here so long, we are either reaching or have reached the end of our "careers" - whatever the hell that means. For me, my career has been running out of mouths to feed before running out of money. Setting humor aside... I'm 64. Here comes the question... How are you sleeping? I tend to crash around 10 or 11. But if I've been thinking about something, within a few hours I am wide awake. It's a little after 3am EST. Is this an age thing? Don't go medical on me - I'm just looking for general thoughts. I have a bottle of melatonin - meh. I tried a bottle of sleep aid from Costco (never again). This is border line (to be honest, probably well past) sleep disorder which is weird for me. Meanwhile, I hate my wife ;) She's snoring within 5 minutes and has an internal alarm clock for 5am...
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
If I have a "hard" problem then I tend to stew over it even after work. I have learned if I can get the problem completely "in my head" sometimes I will have an answer or a line of attack in the morning when I get up. If not working on a hard problem then I do absolutely push everything work related out of my head in the parking lot on the way to the car. Push it out and leave it there in the parking lot. That being said I am a night-owl type anyway and function on about five hour sleep a night, can do three hours a night for a week or so. Anything more than about six hours and I feel logging and sort of disconnected the next day. During vacations or between contracts my bed time gets later and later till it hits 4am or so and I am up and running by 10am (night-owl mode). While working I get up at 6am EVERY morning just to be consist. In bed by 11pm or midnight EVERY night.
