Christmas Trees Confuse Me
-
Do you ever take a step back and think about the idea of a Christmas tree? I know why it all started. That makes sense to me. What I don't understand is why a person would go chop down some perfectly good tree, drag it into their house, stand it upright in a bowl of water, and wrap it with several yards of electrical wire. Why not just drive your car into your house? The electrical plugs are two-pronged and haven't a ground connection. There's no fuse. We need to remember that the tree is standing in a metal bowl of water. You can call me an idiot. People do it all the time. Regardless, I think a fuse and ground connection might come in useful. You're wrapping a flammable plant in electrical wire that's surging with 120 volts of electricity. The whole thing is precariously braced upright by 3 screws anchored to a metal bowl filled with water, and it's inside your house. Christmas trees are dangerous. I'll bet there's an existing term for the phobia of Christmas trees. I haven't a clue as to what the term could be. That's a difficult one. Any ideas? The question I can't answer is, why? Does it symbolize something? What meaning does it have, and what amount of importance supports that meaning? There must be something that compels people to spend time and effort on such a perplexing activity. Is it worth getting electrocuted over? Is it so important that you're willing to let your house burn down? Why kill trees? It doesn't need to be chopped down. Just go outside, find a tree, and decorate it with shiny objects. I don't understand it. :wtf:
Quote:
Regardless, I think a fuse and ground connection might come in useful.
Grounding, certainly - it will prevent electrocution of people touching the tree in the event that a live wire closes a circuit with the tree. Fuse? Not so much. It can't prevent a fire started by arcing because the arc will jump before the fuse is involved, hence a fuse is not going to help with arcing. It can't prevent a fire from a non-arc short because your house's breaker will trip before the element in question heats up enough to start a fire (breakers typically trip within milliseconds of overcurrent). After all, with almost 100m American households having a flammable[1] tree at christmas, it's still almost unheard of for house-fire statistics to rise in December. In fact, I don't think they ever did! So the dangers are less than one would think (numbers don't lie).
Quote:
The question I can't answer is, why? Does it symbolize something? What meaning does it have, and what amount of importance supports that meaning?
Why do modern people do it? Because tradition! Why did the tradition arise? Because, in order to propagate, Christianity leaders chose existing holy days as christian holy days (after all, no one had a clue what month Jesus was born in, let alone what day of the month that was. I'm pretty certain that they weren't quite sure of the season either), and the day they chose as Christ's birthday was an existing Pagan holy day that involved Trees. [1] Plastic is flammable too!
-
Quote:
Regardless, I think a fuse and ground connection might come in useful.
Grounding, certainly - it will prevent electrocution of people touching the tree in the event that a live wire closes a circuit with the tree. Fuse? Not so much. It can't prevent a fire started by arcing because the arc will jump before the fuse is involved, hence a fuse is not going to help with arcing. It can't prevent a fire from a non-arc short because your house's breaker will trip before the element in question heats up enough to start a fire (breakers typically trip within milliseconds of overcurrent). After all, with almost 100m American households having a flammable[1] tree at christmas, it's still almost unheard of for house-fire statistics to rise in December. In fact, I don't think they ever did! So the dangers are less than one would think (numbers don't lie).
Quote:
The question I can't answer is, why? Does it symbolize something? What meaning does it have, and what amount of importance supports that meaning?
Why do modern people do it? Because tradition! Why did the tradition arise? Because, in order to propagate, Christianity leaders chose existing holy days as christian holy days (after all, no one had a clue what month Jesus was born in, let alone what day of the month that was. I'm pretty certain that they weren't quite sure of the season either), and the day they chose as Christ's birthday was an existing Pagan holy day that involved Trees. [1] Plastic is flammable too!
Member 13301679 wrote:
Grounding, certainly - it will prevent electrocution of people touching the tree in the event that a live wire closes a circuit with the tree.
Are you talking about a natural, wooden tree? Wood is quite insulating. Besides, if you have a wooden floor (which is the most common around here), you have no electrical contact with ground. You are like a bird sitting on a power line: There is no reason why the electricity would run through your body. Where should it go from there?
[1] Plastic is flammable too!
Some plastics are. Around here, plastic Christmas trees must be made from inflammable plastics. (The plastics may melt from strong heat, which may be bad enough if you get it on your skin, but being inflammable implies that it won't help flames spread.)
the day they chose as Christ's birthday was an existing Pagan holy day that involved Trees.
The birth date of Jesus was set around 300 CE. The Christmas tree tradition developed in Germany and neighboring countries in the 1500s, and had no effect on what happened 1200 years earlier.
-
Tomorrow night I will celebrate Sunturn (aka. winter solstice) with friends, the way we have done the last 15-20 years. This year we have to stay up late: The exact time for lifting our glasses is past midnight, at UTC 3:28 (which is 4:38 local time). Every year we watch the "Rare Exports Inc." movie - if you haven't seen it, try to get an opportunity to. It is great! For Easter, there is less discussion about the right season, although Jews and Christians differ in their ways to calculate it, so the celebrations may be weeks apart. But then: The reasons for celebration is quite different in the two religions, so there is no logical reason why they should be synchronized. But: The great majority of cultures that experience any sort of winter season, has celebrated some sort of "spring feast", that nature and life wakes up again. Here in Norway, Easter never (at least for the last three generations) was considered a great religious feast. Even in my childhood, everybody went to church at Christmas, noone at Easter, except for those who go every Sunday. People go up in the mountains to ski on the last remains of snow. In the south, they take their boat out on the fjord. Ask kids what they think of as "Easter symbols": They will say "Chickens!" Eggs. Marzipan. Branches of sprouting birch and pussy willow - the Norwegian word for catkins is "goslings", known by any four-year-old to be an important element of Easter. While there are still people around here trying to claim Youle as a Christian celebration - they are fewer ever year - I can't remember anyone claiming monopoly on Easter as a religious feast. Even going back to my grandparents and great grandparents, photo albums and that sort of things have no indications of any church activity, but lots about skiing, cottage life, boat trips to the small islands. Another celebration: I spent a year in the USA when 17-18 years old, as was surprised that they celebrated new year as a religious feast. I had never heard of that in Norway, not a word in that direction. So I asked what made it a reason to celebrate, an was met with a strange look: Don't you know? Don't you know that it is Jesus' Circumcision Day? I have to admit: I had never ever heard that mentioned before, and here in Norway, not until this day. It must be said that circumcision was practically unknown in Norway at that time; I knew it as word when I was a boy, but when someone told me, at around 10-12 years, what it really meant, I first refused to believe it, that anyone
I've lived in the USA my whole life and grew up Catholic. I've never heard a religious reason for New Year's Day until you mentioned it just now. On a side note, there is a medically valid reason for waiting the Jewish prescribed number of days for circumcision. It's been a long time, but I think it deals with a perfect balance between immune system development being far enough along and something else.
Bond Keep all things as simple as possible, but no simpler. -said someone, somewhere
-
Do you ever take a step back and think about the idea of a Christmas tree? I know why it all started. That makes sense to me. What I don't understand is why a person would go chop down some perfectly good tree, drag it into their house, stand it upright in a bowl of water, and wrap it with several yards of electrical wire. Why not just drive your car into your house? The electrical plugs are two-pronged and haven't a ground connection. There's no fuse. We need to remember that the tree is standing in a metal bowl of water. You can call me an idiot. People do it all the time. Regardless, I think a fuse and ground connection might come in useful. You're wrapping a flammable plant in electrical wire that's surging with 120 volts of electricity. The whole thing is precariously braced upright by 3 screws anchored to a metal bowl filled with water, and it's inside your house. Christmas trees are dangerous. I'll bet there's an existing term for the phobia of Christmas trees. I haven't a clue as to what the term could be. That's a difficult one. Any ideas? The question I can't answer is, why? Does it symbolize something? What meaning does it have, and what amount of importance supports that meaning? There must be something that compels people to spend time and effort on such a perplexing activity. Is it worth getting electrocuted over? Is it so important that you're willing to let your house burn down? Why kill trees? It doesn't need to be chopped down. Just go outside, find a tree, and decorate it with shiny objects. I don't understand it. :wtf:
Queen Victoria said that was the way to do it. Who are you to say "no"? 'Course, she was using candles not electrical lights... but the principle of dangerous stuff in the house is basically unchanged. I heard a joke this year too - Christmas tree joke - guy said he was calling his tree "Amy Winehouse" cause he knew it was going to die and leave lots of needles laying around.
-
I can give you one reason: The smell. Plastic trees are worthless. The "Silver Fir" (edelgran, 'noble fir') that doesn't shed its needles, hence have been very popular the last few years, has virtually no smell, and is worthless. A true "Norway Spruce": When you enter the living room in the morning where the tree has has had all night to spread its subtle perfume all over the room ... Nothing can give me the Christmas feeling like that! You can have similar experiences with juniper branches, or by burning incense, but those are raw and brutal when compared to the rich, sophisticated aroma of a true, Norwegian Spruce, Christmas tree.
-
Do you ever take a step back and think about the idea of a Christmas tree? I know why it all started. That makes sense to me. What I don't understand is why a person would go chop down some perfectly good tree, drag it into their house, stand it upright in a bowl of water, and wrap it with several yards of electrical wire. Why not just drive your car into your house? The electrical plugs are two-pronged and haven't a ground connection. There's no fuse. We need to remember that the tree is standing in a metal bowl of water. You can call me an idiot. People do it all the time. Regardless, I think a fuse and ground connection might come in useful. You're wrapping a flammable plant in electrical wire that's surging with 120 volts of electricity. The whole thing is precariously braced upright by 3 screws anchored to a metal bowl filled with water, and it's inside your house. Christmas trees are dangerous. I'll bet there's an existing term for the phobia of Christmas trees. I haven't a clue as to what the term could be. That's a difficult one. Any ideas? The question I can't answer is, why? Does it symbolize something? What meaning does it have, and what amount of importance supports that meaning? There must be something that compels people to spend time and effort on such a perplexing activity. Is it worth getting electrocuted over? Is it so important that you're willing to let your house burn down? Why kill trees? It doesn't need to be chopped down. Just go outside, find a tree, and decorate it with shiny objects. I don't understand it. :wtf:
Killing trees: I used to not feel so good about the use of live trees for this myself. I later realized that these trees are farmed. i.e. they wouldn't exist if there wasn't a market for them, just like heads of lettuce and other vegetables. So, although yes, it's still killing of a perfectly good plant, it's not like Christmas tree purveyors are buying forests up constantly to feed to their customers. Electric lights on trees: There is a small fuse in the plug of all strings of lights (UL listed anyway which is about all you can find I think now-a-days). Also, the wires are really thin so even if you touched two raw wires of it together right from the plug I'm talking, before the string's fuse blew it'd be a pretty small arc. And lastly, since 2017, in the US the national electric code requires the use of an arc fault circuit interrupter (AFCI) in nearly every home circuit (some exceptions for large appliance circuits). This would exist in the central panel. So, the circuit breaker would detect the arc and trip.
-
I can give you one reason: The smell. Plastic trees are worthless. The "Silver Fir" (edelgran, 'noble fir') that doesn't shed its needles, hence have been very popular the last few years, has virtually no smell, and is worthless. A true "Norway Spruce": When you enter the living room in the morning where the tree has has had all night to spread its subtle perfume all over the room ... Nothing can give me the Christmas feeling like that! You can have similar experiences with juniper branches, or by burning incense, but those are raw and brutal when compared to the rich, sophisticated aroma of a true, Norwegian Spruce, Christmas tree.
Christmas trees always gave me asthma attacks when I was a kid. I remembered Christmas as a depressing yellow time because of it. It wasn't long before our family switched to artificial plastic trees used for several seasons each. Now that my family has grown up, I buy an extra small live tree in a bucket and try to plant it in the ground afterwards. The last two died. Anyhow, to avoid the electrical dangers, you could just use wax candles, instead. ;) Regarding the origin and purpose, I think that subject goes beyond what is allowed here but look up Yuletide.
-
Do you ever take a step back and think about the idea of a Christmas tree? I know why it all started. That makes sense to me. What I don't understand is why a person would go chop down some perfectly good tree, drag it into their house, stand it upright in a bowl of water, and wrap it with several yards of electrical wire. Why not just drive your car into your house? The electrical plugs are two-pronged and haven't a ground connection. There's no fuse. We need to remember that the tree is standing in a metal bowl of water. You can call me an idiot. People do it all the time. Regardless, I think a fuse and ground connection might come in useful. You're wrapping a flammable plant in electrical wire that's surging with 120 volts of electricity. The whole thing is precariously braced upright by 3 screws anchored to a metal bowl filled with water, and it's inside your house. Christmas trees are dangerous. I'll bet there's an existing term for the phobia of Christmas trees. I haven't a clue as to what the term could be. That's a difficult one. Any ideas? The question I can't answer is, why? Does it symbolize something? What meaning does it have, and what amount of importance supports that meaning? There must be something that compels people to spend time and effort on such a perplexing activity. Is it worth getting electrocuted over? Is it so important that you're willing to let your house burn down? Why kill trees? It doesn't need to be chopped down. Just go outside, find a tree, and decorate it with shiny objects. I don't understand it. :wtf:
There are several reasons for a Christmas tree in the home. Some of those reasons mix together. For me, it is primarily the Christian religion for what a tree means in my faith (a whole other story), combined with family traditions that are pleasant to my memories. When we used live trees, the relationship part of finding and cutting down a tree with a family member is a precious memory. The smell and the shared effort and time together meant something. As for the electrical and fire issues, we took precautions to minimize the probability of an incident to make the outcome more valuable than the risk. Later, we shifted to artificial trees, and like the real trees, enjoyed the time decorating together. Each day we see them, it reminds us of the real reason for Christ in Christmas, and for how much we enjoy this time with family. So, by both having a defined and understood purpose, and mitigating risk to a safe level, we can put up a Christmas tree and not have any worries about it.
-
Christmas trees always gave me asthma attacks when I was a kid. I remembered Christmas as a depressing yellow time because of it. It wasn't long before our family switched to artificial plastic trees used for several seasons each. Now that my family has grown up, I buy an extra small live tree in a bucket and try to plant it in the ground afterwards. The last two died. Anyhow, to avoid the electrical dangers, you could just use wax candles, instead. ;) Regarding the origin and purpose, I think that subject goes beyond what is allowed here but look up Yuletide.
Bruce Patin wrote:
I buy an extra small live tree in a bucket and try to plant it in the ground afterwards
I wouldn't expect in the northern hemisphere that planting a tree in January is going to work out well normally. Perhaps buy one in the spring, follow the instructions, then in a couple of years celebrate by throwing a couple of lights around it.
-
Christmas trees always gave me asthma attacks when I was a kid. I remembered Christmas as a depressing yellow time because of it. It wasn't long before our family switched to artificial plastic trees used for several seasons each. Now that my family has grown up, I buy an extra small live tree in a bucket and try to plant it in the ground afterwards. The last two died. Anyhow, to avoid the electrical dangers, you could just use wax candles, instead. ;) Regarding the origin and purpose, I think that subject goes beyond what is allowed here but look up Yuletide.
Bruce Patin wrote:
Christmas trees always gave me asthma attacks when I was a kid.
That is one good reason not to bring a real tree into the living room. But, even though some people are allergic to dogs, I think it is OK for non-allergic people to have dogs. So I think non-asthmatic people can continue having Christmas trees - or, that is not a reason for throwing it out. If you really are asthmatic, you probably should avoid a few other things, too. I guess that there are different varieties of asthma, but a fair share of those who are plagued by fir trees are similarly plagued by candles, so you might want to avoid them. And incense - like many families in Norway, we used to burn it around Christmas time, but at least one guest could not come to visit us if we had burnt incense the same day. I've been pondering as a business idea that which you suggest: Christmas trees that are allowed to live on, every year your hedgerow gets a little longer ... You probably would need a very big bucket. Around here we have just been through 3 weeks of night temperatures of -16 to -15 C, day temperatures around -12 C. You have to be very careful when moving an outdoor tree into living room temperatures: Do it in several temperature steps, spread over a couple days. After Christmas is over, do the opposite: Condition it slowly to low temperatures before moving it back into your garden. During Christmas: Use a spray bottle to give the tree higher humidity than is common in a living room in winter; at least around here, it tends to be much to dry for a tree to thrive. Doing this with a juniper is probably a better alternative than a fir - junipers are robust, they can take a beating. I'd probably go for those cultivated, narrow almost like a column, variants; they are suitable for a an semi-open hedgerow. Juniper also has a nice smell, and it won't shred its needles. If you have a small living room, you may like that it occupies far less space than most fir trees (and plastic trees). A well known Norwegian Christmas song goes "Let us dance around the juniper bush". In old days, junipers were used as Christmas trees, but now you rarely see it. Maybe rooted trees could make a comeback for the juniper!
-
No fuse? Two prongs? 120V? I don't really get any of these things. Here in the UK every plug has a fuse in it, every plug has three pins (not always used for 'double insulated' appliances) and a punchy 240v flows through those terminals. No fuse? Why doesn't everything burn down with electrical failures? No earth, how do you protect metal items? 120v - So you need twice the current/twice the area of wire per watt? Do you have RCD protection, so any earth leakage will cut the power? I take your point!
Regards, Rob Philpott.
Rob Philpott wrote:
I don't really get any of these things. Here in the UK every plug has a fuse in it, every plug has three pins (not always used for 'double insulated' appliances) and a punchy 240v flows through those terminals.
I know what you mean. I lived in Britain for just under 6 months. I remember the plugs were entirely different from what we have in the US. I needed to buy an array of plug adapters designed for multiple types of plugs for various foreign countries. That allowed me to operate my electrical devices. I don't know if the adapters changed the volts and amps of the outlet's electricity, but I assume they did. Otherwise, I suspect my electronic devices would short-circuit and die. In the US, the standard power for residential applications is 120 volts and 15 amps. Multiplied together, these give us 1800 watts. It's an alternating current that cycles 60 times per second. I know in the UK, 240 volts is the standard, but I've long forgotten how many amps there are. I assume that the current cycles are 60 times per second, but I don't know. I'll have to Google that. Here's a link: England residential electricity volts amps cycles - Google Search[^] This is one of the results that popped up. Sounds as though it's correct.
A standard UK plug socket typically supplies electricity at 230 volts AC and up to 13 amps. Strictly speaking, 32A if fed via a ring main or 20A if fed from a radial circuit. The plug is the limiting factor, not the socket. Plugtops (the correct term) are fitted with a maximum of a 13A fuse.Sep 28, 2017
One of the search results stated that in the UK, AC electrical current cycles at 30 times per second.
-
For the serious side: Have you ever tried yourself, or been to a party where they roast a whole pig? Or lamb, or calf or whatever? It takes a long, long time to roast it! With lots of intense heat. If you are talking about a small piglet, it can be baked at moderate temperature for a few hours, but for a large hog, you will probably cut off slices as they have been roasted, to let the heat in to the meat that is not yet done. Roasting a pig over a bed of charcoal is suitable for a celebration that runs all day, with people coming to have their serving(s) over a period of many hours.
-
Do you ever take a step back and think about the idea of a Christmas tree? I know why it all started. That makes sense to me. What I don't understand is why a person would go chop down some perfectly good tree, drag it into their house, stand it upright in a bowl of water, and wrap it with several yards of electrical wire. Why not just drive your car into your house? The electrical plugs are two-pronged and haven't a ground connection. There's no fuse. We need to remember that the tree is standing in a metal bowl of water. You can call me an idiot. People do it all the time. Regardless, I think a fuse and ground connection might come in useful. You're wrapping a flammable plant in electrical wire that's surging with 120 volts of electricity. The whole thing is precariously braced upright by 3 screws anchored to a metal bowl filled with water, and it's inside your house. Christmas trees are dangerous. I'll bet there's an existing term for the phobia of Christmas trees. I haven't a clue as to what the term could be. That's a difficult one. Any ideas? The question I can't answer is, why? Does it symbolize something? What meaning does it have, and what amount of importance supports that meaning? There must be something that compels people to spend time and effort on such a perplexing activity. Is it worth getting electrocuted over? Is it so important that you're willing to let your house burn down? Why kill trees? It doesn't need to be chopped down. Just go outside, find a tree, and decorate it with shiny objects. I don't understand it. :wtf:
I to was curious about the Xmas tree, and did some research about 15 years ago. The Xmas tree comes from the Germans, or Germanic tribes back in earlier days, perhaps during the days of the Roman Empire, when during the winter or shortest days of the year, they would cut a tree down and put it in the house. They just wanted to bring a part of the outdoors inside, to brighten things up inside the house or shelter. The legend or story of the tree goes back to the Santa Klaus days, where Germans swear they saw a chubby man in a fire lit sleigh fly across the skies during the darkest of dark days. Then the Germans brought the idea to America during immigration in the early 1800s on the east coast. I think the concept took decades, but it caught on. One day, a famous American women thought the tree was boring and made some decorations to put on the tree, and published the idea in a famous magazine, and women in America started making Xmas Tree ornaments. They became popular, and the Germans quickly capitalized on the idea and started making ornaments, and sold them on the streets of New York during Xmas. Soon women across the East Coast were buying ornaments instead of making them, and then it went retail at stores such as Macy's. Soon everything was being decorated at Xmas time. I didn't check into the lights, but would imagine it probably occurred in the 1920s, when light bulbs were more available. So to the best of my knowledge, it's a New York thing, that they made popular. It's funny how these things or traditions start, and somehow become mandatory by our parents as unbreakable traditions that are concrete and cannot be refused. Xmas is a trip to me, where there are two versions of it, one being Pagan that I call Xmas, and the other that competes with the Pagan version called Christmas, which is promoted by the Christian Church. I believe I read that Christmas was promoted as a substitute, for what they use to do in London, where during the darkest of dark days or Xmas eve in general, they built a large fire in town at night called the Yule Log, which was the Pagan tradition of that time, and gather warmth while drinking spirits late into the night with friends and family. The Germans also brought the Easter Egg and Easter Bunny to America as well, and that company that makes the Easter Egg coloring kits is German, called "PAAS" I think. The legend of the Easter Bunny is German as well, and that's all I know about it, I'm sure it's related to the melting of snow, and welcoming of spring, and is no
-
Rob Philpott wrote:
I don't really get any of these things. Here in the UK every plug has a fuse in it, every plug has three pins (not always used for 'double insulated' appliances) and a punchy 240v flows through those terminals.
I know what you mean. I lived in Britain for just under 6 months. I remember the plugs were entirely different from what we have in the US. I needed to buy an array of plug adapters designed for multiple types of plugs for various foreign countries. That allowed me to operate my electrical devices. I don't know if the adapters changed the volts and amps of the outlet's electricity, but I assume they did. Otherwise, I suspect my electronic devices would short-circuit and die. In the US, the standard power for residential applications is 120 volts and 15 amps. Multiplied together, these give us 1800 watts. It's an alternating current that cycles 60 times per second. I know in the UK, 240 volts is the standard, but I've long forgotten how many amps there are. I assume that the current cycles are 60 times per second, but I don't know. I'll have to Google that. Here's a link: England residential electricity volts amps cycles - Google Search[^] This is one of the results that popped up. Sounds as though it's correct.
A standard UK plug socket typically supplies electricity at 230 volts AC and up to 13 amps. Strictly speaking, 32A if fed via a ring main or 20A if fed from a radial circuit. The plug is the limiting factor, not the socket. Plugtops (the correct term) are fitted with a maximum of a 13A fuse.Sep 28, 2017
One of the search results stated that in the UK, AC electrical current cycles at 30 times per second.
Steve Raw wrote:
I don't know if the adapters changed the volts and amps of the outlet's electricity, but I assume they did.
A lot of newer electronic devices with (built-in) semiconductor based power supplies can handle anything from 100 to 250 V. So you charge your smartphone, plug in your portable radio etc. They work fine; you think that it will work fine with any sort of equipment, and plug in something that does not have any built-in regulator, or one based on a transformer, and it goes Pooof!. If your adapter plug appears to be nothing more than a plug with a "US style" socket, and an English (or other) plug, with no apparent "box" for electronics or a small transformer, do not assume that it converts 240V to 120V! You can get small transformers; they are marked with the in and out voltages and maximum effect. I have got one transformer bases, it is rated for 50 W, and one semiconductor based, rated for 1000 W. Neither can handle plugs with a ground pin, on either side. (Since all new houses, and major upgrades to the electric cabling of older houses, are all grounded, so both my adapters are now useless!)
I know in the UK, 240 volts is the standard, but I've long forgotten how many amps there are.
The actual current, in amps, depends on the consuming apparatus. The rating of the plug, socket or cable is the maximum load, determined essentially by the cable dimension. 1.5 sqmm conductors can handle 10A, and the central fuse box has a 10A fuse. 2.5 sqmm conductors can handle 16A, with a 16A fuse in the box. For 25A, for electric stoves, 4 sqmm cable is used. Nowadays, the fuses are electronic, but in old houses you can still see those ceramic screw-in fuses: Fuses for higher currents has a wider throat, so a 16A fuse will not fit in a 10A socket. In Norway, the old standard was 1.5 sqmm cables, for a max load of 10A. The last 25-30 years (? I am not sure when the change came about), 2.5 sqmm, 16 A, became the standard. The socket/plug must also be capable of handling the maximum load. In most of Europe, using "Schuko" plugs, all of it is made to handle 16A. For higher effects, there are special plugs, often for three-phase power. GB is a little by itself, with its mammoth plugs and built-in fuse, and "ring circuits" which are unheard of in the rest of Europe. The fuse is usually 3, 5 or 13A. As standard voltage in GB is 240V, but 230V in the rest of Europe, the difference in p
-
Bruce Patin wrote:
Christmas trees always gave me asthma attacks when I was a kid.
That is one good reason not to bring a real tree into the living room. But, even though some people are allergic to dogs, I think it is OK for non-allergic people to have dogs. So I think non-asthmatic people can continue having Christmas trees - or, that is not a reason for throwing it out. If you really are asthmatic, you probably should avoid a few other things, too. I guess that there are different varieties of asthma, but a fair share of those who are plagued by fir trees are similarly plagued by candles, so you might want to avoid them. And incense - like many families in Norway, we used to burn it around Christmas time, but at least one guest could not come to visit us if we had burnt incense the same day. I've been pondering as a business idea that which you suggest: Christmas trees that are allowed to live on, every year your hedgerow gets a little longer ... You probably would need a very big bucket. Around here we have just been through 3 weeks of night temperatures of -16 to -15 C, day temperatures around -12 C. You have to be very careful when moving an outdoor tree into living room temperatures: Do it in several temperature steps, spread over a couple days. After Christmas is over, do the opposite: Condition it slowly to low temperatures before moving it back into your garden. During Christmas: Use a spray bottle to give the tree higher humidity than is common in a living room in winter; at least around here, it tends to be much to dry for a tree to thrive. Doing this with a juniper is probably a better alternative than a fir - junipers are robust, they can take a beating. I'd probably go for those cultivated, narrow almost like a column, variants; they are suitable for a an semi-open hedgerow. Juniper also has a nice smell, and it won't shred its needles. If you have a small living room, you may like that it occupies far less space than most fir trees (and plastic trees). A well known Norwegian Christmas song goes "Let us dance around the juniper bush". In old days, junipers were used as Christmas trees, but now you rarely see it. Maybe rooted trees could make a comeback for the juniper!
I think mostly my childhood asthma has gone. But thank you for the tips about slowly acclimating to lower temperatures. Actually, I have a garden under lights in my basement. I will put it there this year after Christmas. I don't know why I didn't think of that before.
-
Bruce Patin wrote:
I buy an extra small live tree in a bucket and try to plant it in the ground afterwards
I wouldn't expect in the northern hemisphere that planting a tree in January is going to work out well normally. Perhaps buy one in the spring, follow the instructions, then in a couple of years celebrate by throwing a couple of lights around it.
The tree is fine, now. I have a few fruit trees under lights in my basement for the winter. After Christmas this time, I will put it there with the others. Thanks for the tip.
-
Do you ever take a step back and think about the idea of a Christmas tree? I know why it all started. That makes sense to me. What I don't understand is why a person would go chop down some perfectly good tree, drag it into their house, stand it upright in a bowl of water, and wrap it with several yards of electrical wire. Why not just drive your car into your house? The electrical plugs are two-pronged and haven't a ground connection. There's no fuse. We need to remember that the tree is standing in a metal bowl of water. You can call me an idiot. People do it all the time. Regardless, I think a fuse and ground connection might come in useful. You're wrapping a flammable plant in electrical wire that's surging with 120 volts of electricity. The whole thing is precariously braced upright by 3 screws anchored to a metal bowl filled with water, and it's inside your house. Christmas trees are dangerous. I'll bet there's an existing term for the phobia of Christmas trees. I haven't a clue as to what the term could be. That's a difficult one. Any ideas? The question I can't answer is, why? Does it symbolize something? What meaning does it have, and what amount of importance supports that meaning? There must be something that compels people to spend time and effort on such a perplexing activity. Is it worth getting electrocuted over? Is it so important that you're willing to let your house burn down? Why kill trees? It doesn't need to be chopped down. Just go outside, find a tree, and decorate it with shiny objects. I don't understand it. :wtf:
I discovered there is a specific term to describe the fear of Christmas trees: Christougenniatiko dentrophobia :^) 10 Christmas Phobias You Probably Never Knew Existed[^]
-
I to was curious about the Xmas tree, and did some research about 15 years ago. The Xmas tree comes from the Germans, or Germanic tribes back in earlier days, perhaps during the days of the Roman Empire, when during the winter or shortest days of the year, they would cut a tree down and put it in the house. They just wanted to bring a part of the outdoors inside, to brighten things up inside the house or shelter. The legend or story of the tree goes back to the Santa Klaus days, where Germans swear they saw a chubby man in a fire lit sleigh fly across the skies during the darkest of dark days. Then the Germans brought the idea to America during immigration in the early 1800s on the east coast. I think the concept took decades, but it caught on. One day, a famous American women thought the tree was boring and made some decorations to put on the tree, and published the idea in a famous magazine, and women in America started making Xmas Tree ornaments. They became popular, and the Germans quickly capitalized on the idea and started making ornaments, and sold them on the streets of New York during Xmas. Soon women across the East Coast were buying ornaments instead of making them, and then it went retail at stores such as Macy's. Soon everything was being decorated at Xmas time. I didn't check into the lights, but would imagine it probably occurred in the 1920s, when light bulbs were more available. So to the best of my knowledge, it's a New York thing, that they made popular. It's funny how these things or traditions start, and somehow become mandatory by our parents as unbreakable traditions that are concrete and cannot be refused. Xmas is a trip to me, where there are two versions of it, one being Pagan that I call Xmas, and the other that competes with the Pagan version called Christmas, which is promoted by the Christian Church. I believe I read that Christmas was promoted as a substitute, for what they use to do in London, where during the darkest of dark days or Xmas eve in general, they built a large fire in town at night called the Yule Log, which was the Pagan tradition of that time, and gather warmth while drinking spirits late into the night with friends and family. The Germans also brought the Easter Egg and Easter Bunny to America as well, and that company that makes the Easter Egg coloring kits is German, called "PAAS" I think. The legend of the Easter Bunny is German as well, and that's all I know about it, I'm sure it's related to the melting of snow, and welcoming of spring, and is no
jkirkerx wrote:
One day, a famous American women thought the tree was boring and made some decorations to put on the tree, and published the idea in a famous magazine, and women in America started making Xmas Tree ornaments.
Decorating Christmas trees started in the 1500s in Germany, often apples and sweets, and kids were allowed to "harvest" the goodies on the thirteenth day of Christmas. We did the same in my childhood: My birthday is on the 18th day of Christmas. An essential part of the decoration was small paper baskets, filled with nuts, almonds, raisins, small chocolates ... In my birthday party, we made a last walk around the tree, then the guests were invited to harvest it, removing all the decorations and eating whatever they found in the baskets. Finally we opened the living room window to throw the tree out, with everybody cheering. In my childhood, the decorations where 90% home made. Making baskets, chains of colored paper rings, balls of yarn, figures of rye straw - split them with a razor blade to fold them out, glue them onto a sheet of paper edge to edge, and iron the sheet at medium heat, and they turn blank, golden, very nice for cutting figures of horses or squirrels or whatever to put on the tree. When cracking walnuts, we always tried to open the shell without breaking it, so that it could be glued together and painted with silver or gold paint, to put on the tree. For the baskets, there was a range from very simple to make, kindergarten level, to advanced models requiring a lot of cutting and folding, for the older kids.(Wikipedia: Pleated Christmas hearts[^] Making tree decorations was a common advent activity in kindergartens and primary schools, as well as a family activity. We tended to frown at families who didn't have a single home made decoration; those trees were simply boring! (We also saw it as a way of showing off, in a negative sense.)
I didn't check into the lights, but would imagine it probably occurred in the 1920s, when light bulbs were more available.
The Norwegian Wikipedia entry on the Christmas tree quotes Johann Wolfgang Goethe: The Sorrows of Young Werther[
-
Bruce Patin wrote:
I buy an extra small live tree in a bucket and try to plant it in the ground afterwards
I wouldn't expect in the northern hemisphere that planting a tree in January is going to work out well normally. Perhaps buy one in the spring, follow the instructions, then in a couple of years celebrate by throwing a couple of lights around it.
-
jkirkerx wrote:
One day, a famous American women thought the tree was boring and made some decorations to put on the tree, and published the idea in a famous magazine, and women in America started making Xmas Tree ornaments.
Decorating Christmas trees started in the 1500s in Germany, often apples and sweets, and kids were allowed to "harvest" the goodies on the thirteenth day of Christmas. We did the same in my childhood: My birthday is on the 18th day of Christmas. An essential part of the decoration was small paper baskets, filled with nuts, almonds, raisins, small chocolates ... In my birthday party, we made a last walk around the tree, then the guests were invited to harvest it, removing all the decorations and eating whatever they found in the baskets. Finally we opened the living room window to throw the tree out, with everybody cheering. In my childhood, the decorations where 90% home made. Making baskets, chains of colored paper rings, balls of yarn, figures of rye straw - split them with a razor blade to fold them out, glue them onto a sheet of paper edge to edge, and iron the sheet at medium heat, and they turn blank, golden, very nice for cutting figures of horses or squirrels or whatever to put on the tree. When cracking walnuts, we always tried to open the shell without breaking it, so that it could be glued together and painted with silver or gold paint, to put on the tree. For the baskets, there was a range from very simple to make, kindergarten level, to advanced models requiring a lot of cutting and folding, for the older kids.(Wikipedia: Pleated Christmas hearts[^] Making tree decorations was a common advent activity in kindergartens and primary schools, as well as a family activity. We tended to frown at families who didn't have a single home made decoration; those trees were simply boring! (We also saw it as a way of showing off, in a negative sense.)
I didn't check into the lights, but would imagine it probably occurred in the 1920s, when light bulbs were more available.
The Norwegian Wikipedia entry on the Christmas tree quotes Johann Wolfgang Goethe: The Sorrows of Young Werther[
I had no idea it went back that far, but that sounds like loading the tree up with delicious foods that kids can't resist, like hanging a salami or cheese on the tree, rather than a cheap glass ornament, in which the first sounds like a better idea. But you did make ornaments as well with the family, so these traditions do go way back in time, and seem to be present today as well. You have a nice family! My source claimed to be the source of sources, but most likely just another story of how it started in America at least. I never looked into the 12 days of Xmas, and how that started, but it must be German as well. There are so many stories and traditions that are lost today, that one can write a book about it to refresh our memories. Thanks for sharing that ... Another lesson I learned today
If it ain't broke don't fix it Discover my world at jkirkerx.com