Democrat - different perspectives

Anonymous101

"ILLEGAL immigrant who lives off hard-working taxpayers." Who is working harder (and getting paid less) than illegal immigrants? :confused:

Anonymous

and many taxpayers are not hard-working so they employ illegal immigrants.

brianwelsch

Anonymous101 wrote: Who is working harder (and getting paid less) than illegal immigrants? who cares? go work your ass off somewhere else, or get a visa. BW "I don't remember, but I know we played together because I've seen the posters." - Joe Walsh talking with Ozzy Osbourne about touring together in the 70's

Anonymous101

brianwelsch wrote: go work your ass off somewhere else, For your ancestors that soemwhere else would be a tiny country in europe, right? ;P Oh, I forgot your ancestors did get invitation from the natives and they later became dear friends. :laugh:

brianwelsch

If immigrants want to take over the country then by all means invade, and we'll see what happens. My ancestors, BTW, were in Germany until 1965, so they had approximately nothing to do with how native americans were treated. Anyway, shitty behaviour in the past does not justify shitty behaviour in the present. BW "I don't remember, but I know we played together because I've seen the posters." - Joe Walsh talking with Ozzy Osbourne about touring together in the 70's

Roger Wright

Kinda says it all, doesn't it?:-D

"The Lion shall lie down with the Lamb;
but the Lamb will not get much sleep..."
Lazarus Long

Terry ONolley

People say that the illegal immigrants do the jobs that americans would never do for minimum wage. And that is true as long as we live in a welfare state. So if we clamp down on illegal (read CRIMINAL) immigrants and cut the welfare then those lazy sobs will take those jobs. I'm going to live forever or die trying!

brianwelsch

tnolley wrote: So if we clamp down on illegal (read CRIMINAL) immigrants and cut the welfare then those lazy sobs will take those jobs. You stop with the logic stuff right now. BW "I don't remember, but I know we played together because I've seen the posters." - Joe Walsh talking with Ozzy Osbourne about touring together in the 70's

Lost User

Roger Wright wrote: Kinda says it all, doesn't it? unless you've read the one on republicans:-D

KaRl

Yeah, let's punish the weakests, and do nothing for the bastards exploiting their misery.

We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry (1900-1944)

Anonymous101

brianwelsch wrote: My ancestors, BTW, were in Germany until 1965, so they had approximately nothing to do with how native americans were treated. So you are the son/daughter of recent immigrants, you should know the hardship experienced by almost every immigrant in this country (USA). In case you don't know, just ask your parents. Immigrants just want to work for a better life, legally or illegally. I don't think they bring any harm (relatively speaking) to this country. brianwelsch wrote: Anyway, shitty behaviour in the past does not justify shitty behaviour in the present. No, it doesn't (justify). However if this country wants to get rid of all illegal immigrants, it is not that hard to do. We should not exploit the cheap labor provided by illegal immigrants and then blame all of our problems on them.

brianwelsch

Anonymous101 wrote: Immigrants just want to work for a better life, legally or illegally. I don't think they bring any harm (relatively speaking) to this country. My parents came in legally, the way immigrants should come in. They've worked there ass off to create a a great life for their family. As I know many other immigrants do too. I don't think anyone is blaming all the countries ills on illegal immigrants, but the fact remains. We have a system by which people can become part of the American society, and that system should be adhered too. I don't agree with exploiting them for cheap labor either. A further issue with getting rid of illegal immigrants has, I think, to do with the decreasing rate of population growth and increasing numbers of retirement aged citizens. The millions of illegal immigrants will have subsequent millions of legal US-born children, who will help to pay for Baby Boomer SS checks, provide a larger labor-force, etc.... Pretty helpful. I'd just rather see it all be done legitimately to begin with as well as see adjustments made to our current welfare/SS system. BW "I don't remember, but I know we played together because I've seen the posters." - Joe Walsh talking with Ozzy Osbourne about touring together in the 70's

Anonymous101

brianwelsch wrote: My parents came in legally, the way immigrants should come in. They've worked there ass off to create a a great life for their family. As I know many other immigrants do too. However, whether you can immigrate to this country legally (and maintain legal status) depends too much on luck (where you were born, who you knew, etc.). Somehow I think the current system is fair: illegal immigrants broke the law when they came in, they were punished by doing hard work and getting ridiculous wages until they obtained legal status. I don't know if you heard it or not, once an illegal immigrant stayed in this country for 20-25 years, he is automatically entilted to get legal status. So even the goverment thinks being an illegal immigrant for more than 20 years is enough punishment for a person. brianwelsch wrote: I don't think anyone is blaming all the countries ills on illegal immigrants Some extremely conservative politicians do blame immigrants (including legal ones) for all the problems. brianwelsch wrote: I don't agree with exploiting them for cheap labor either. That's entirely an economical issue. Some business have to choose immigrants over citizens because otherwise they will have to move the business overseas to survive compitetion. brianwelsch wrote: A further issue with getting rid of illegal immigrants has, I think, to do with the decreasing rate of population growth and increasing numbers of retirement aged citizens. The millions of illegal immigrants will have subsequent millions of legal US-born children, who will help to pay for Baby Boomer SS checks, provide a larger labor-force, etc.... Pretty helpful. Ok, now I see you are not one of the extremely conservative politicians ;)

brianwelsch

Anonymous101 wrote: Somehow I think the current system is fair: illegal immigrants broke the law when they came in, they were punished by doing hard work and getting ridiculous wages until they obtained legal status. I know I said I don't agree with exploitation, but I'm not sure doing hard work for ridiculous wages is any different from the lifestyle they were leaving in the first place, so its hardly punishment. Also, they manage to get health care, etc. without putting much back into the system. So I'm starting to think maybe they aren't being exploited as much they are exploiting. Additionally, many live in overcrowded apartments and houses to save money which they then send back home to their families. If I recall 2/3 of the GDP is consumer spending, so their contribution to the economy is limited. I guess overall things won't change much because we're banking on greater overall contributions in the future. I still don't like the way it's happening though. (I'm a rules guy ;) ) Anonymous101 wrote: I don't know if you heard it or not, once an illegal immigrant stayed in this country for 20-25 years, he is automatically entilted to get legal status. Never heard of this. My parents even after living here for 22-23 years, had to go through naturalization with forms and tests and ceremony. BW "I don't remember, but I know we played together because I've seen the posters." - Joe Walsh talking with Ozzy Osbourne about touring together in the 70's

Anonymous101

brianwelsch wrote: I'm not sure doing hard work for ridiculous wages is any different from the lifestyle they were leaving in the first place, so its hardly punishment. Regardless of their previous life styles, if they do hard work and getting paid much less, that is punishment (for breaking the law). Why would anyone comes into this country and expects to live worse than in their own country? In reality, some poeple do live worse, but they expect their life to get better at a later time brianwelsch wrote: Also, they manage to get health care, etc. without putting much back into the system. So I'm starting to think maybe they aren't being exploited as much they are exploiting. I think the exploitation by illegal immigrants are grossly exagerated by politicians. There is no doubt that some of them exploited the system, but as illegal immigrants their biggest fear is getting caught and being deported. I am sure most of them don't get any health care at all. I also heard that IRS has been encouraging illegal immigrants to pay income taxes and some of them did pay. Basically IRS is saying "we know you are here illegally, but we are not going to use the tax information you provided to help the INS to deport you". brianwelsch wrote: (I'm a rules guy ) If all rules are followed, then a large portion (may be most) of the legal immigrants won't have their legal status in this country. This is because when they first entered this country, they were using non-immigrant visas but thinking that some day they could live here permanently. However, they were greeted by INS officers at the border with the following question: "Do you have any intention to immigrate to the United States?" If they answered truthfully (yes), they would not be allowed into the country, period. According to the law, your legal immigration status should be taken away if you provided false information when entering this country. When you visit your parents next time, ask them what kind of visa they had when they first came to USA and also ask them if they thought about staying in this country permanently at that time. brianwelsch wrote: Never heard of this. My parents even after living here for 22-23 years, had to go through naturalization with forms and tests and ceremony. The illegal immigrants who stayed here long enough have to do the same paper work to get their legal status, however the INS won't de

Tim Craig

Anonymous101 wrote: I also heard that IRS has been encouraging illegal immigrants to pay income taxes and some of them did pay. Basically IRS is saying "we know you are here illegally, but we are not going to use the tax information you provided to help the INS to deport you". Well, bless their little blood sucking hearts. If anyone is living and earning money in this country, they should be subject to the same persecution by the tax system as those living here legally. Traditionally, the IRS has been neutral on how the money was earned as long as you paid taxes on it. Big Al didn't go to the slammer for murder, bootlegging, or any of the other crimes he'd pretty obviously committed, he went for tax evasion. If he'd just coughed up the taxes, he'd been free to continue being a blight on society. :zzz: