Okay, real C++ question - who makes use of the auto keyword?
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I'm trying to straighten out some pointer "arithmetic" in some existing code. The expressions themselves are overly ambiguous to say the least. In part of my readings, I've come across the "auto" keyword where the compiler deduces what type I need. At least that's what I got from all of the verbiage. This seems a) dangerous and b) adds another level of mental indirection to what you are trying to accomplish. To me, software needs to be very clear and explicit in what data you are working with and what you intend to do with it. A lot of the "here is how auto will help you" descriptions justify it by saving typing when trying to make use of other classes, templates and the like. It feels like the C++ committee came up with a feature A then added feature B to make using A easier. I'm now doing battle with lambda expressions - another story. So, in your code - do you make extensive use of auto, and how does it help you?
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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I'm trying to straighten out some pointer "arithmetic" in some existing code. The expressions themselves are overly ambiguous to say the least. In part of my readings, I've come across the "auto" keyword where the compiler deduces what type I need. At least that's what I got from all of the verbiage. This seems a) dangerous and b) adds another level of mental indirection to what you are trying to accomplish. To me, software needs to be very clear and explicit in what data you are working with and what you intend to do with it. A lot of the "here is how auto will help you" descriptions justify it by saving typing when trying to make use of other classes, templates and the like. It feels like the C++ committee came up with a feature A then added feature B to make using A easier. I'm now doing battle with lambda expressions - another story. So, in your code - do you make extensive use of auto, and how does it help you?
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
charlieg wrote:
do you make extensive use of auto,
Not "extensive" but I use it frequently. In some cases there is no way to go around it (when you have a lambda closure for instance), in other cases it is just convenient (like long container iterator types), and in a few cases it is surprisingly useful. One such case is in combination with IntelliSense when I have doubts about the final type of an expression. I do something like:
auto var = /*expression*/
and, when I hoover over
var, IntelliSense will obligingly tell me what the compiler thinks the variable type is. I know it's a bit silly (and maybe lazy) but hey, it helps me. How I learned to stop worrying and start loving theauto:laugh:Mircea
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charlieg wrote:
do you make extensive use of auto,
Not "extensive" but I use it frequently. In some cases there is no way to go around it (when you have a lambda closure for instance), in other cases it is just convenient (like long container iterator types), and in a few cases it is surprisingly useful. One such case is in combination with IntelliSense when I have doubts about the final type of an expression. I do something like:
auto var = /*expression*/
and, when I hoover over
var, IntelliSense will obligingly tell me what the compiler thinks the variable type is. I know it's a bit silly (and maybe lazy) but hey, it helps me. How I learned to stop worrying and start loving theauto:laugh:Mircea
Mircea Neacsu wrote:
IntelliSense will obligingly tell me that the compiler thinks it the variable type.
I think this is the best use for auto in C++ or var in C#.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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I'm trying to straighten out some pointer "arithmetic" in some existing code. The expressions themselves are overly ambiguous to say the least. In part of my readings, I've come across the "auto" keyword where the compiler deduces what type I need. At least that's what I got from all of the verbiage. This seems a) dangerous and b) adds another level of mental indirection to what you are trying to accomplish. To me, software needs to be very clear and explicit in what data you are working with and what you intend to do with it. A lot of the "here is how auto will help you" descriptions justify it by saving typing when trying to make use of other classes, templates and the like. It feels like the C++ committee came up with a feature A then added feature B to make using A easier. I'm now doing battle with lambda expressions - another story. So, in your code - do you make extensive use of auto, and how does it help you?
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
I haven't touched C/C++ in a long time, but C# has the similar var. I used to use it until I recognized how unreadable it made code. It forces you to know more than you really need to know and is, frankly, a lazy way to write code. I do still use it but only in the lazy way of using Intellisense to figure out what the actual type is supposed to be and give me the option of replacing var with the actual type. It has recently come in handy last week when using an API client library generated by Swagger code gen and the holy-shit-those-are-long-class-names it generated. The longest is 86 characters long, and average about 40-45. I'm not typing those. I have to get the code working this week, not next year.
Asking questions is a skill CodeProject Forum Guidelines Google: C# How to debug code Seriously, go read these articles. Dave Kreskowiak
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I'm trying to straighten out some pointer "arithmetic" in some existing code. The expressions themselves are overly ambiguous to say the least. In part of my readings, I've come across the "auto" keyword where the compiler deduces what type I need. At least that's what I got from all of the verbiage. This seems a) dangerous and b) adds another level of mental indirection to what you are trying to accomplish. To me, software needs to be very clear and explicit in what data you are working with and what you intend to do with it. A lot of the "here is how auto will help you" descriptions justify it by saving typing when trying to make use of other classes, templates and the like. It feels like the C++ committee came up with a feature A then added feature B to make using A easier. I'm now doing battle with lambda expressions - another story. So, in your code - do you make extensive use of auto, and how does it help you?
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
I use it. Suppose you have
unordered_map um{ {"foo", 1}, {"goo", 2}, {"boo",42}};
I find
for (const auto & p : um)
{
cout << p.first << ", " << p.second << "\n";
}'somewhat simpler' when compared to
for (const pair & p : um)
{
cout << p.first << ", " << p.second << "\n";
}Maybe I am used to it.
"In testa che avete, Signor di Ceprano?" -- Rigoletto
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I'm trying to straighten out some pointer "arithmetic" in some existing code. The expressions themselves are overly ambiguous to say the least. In part of my readings, I've come across the "auto" keyword where the compiler deduces what type I need. At least that's what I got from all of the verbiage. This seems a) dangerous and b) adds another level of mental indirection to what you are trying to accomplish. To me, software needs to be very clear and explicit in what data you are working with and what you intend to do with it. A lot of the "here is how auto will help you" descriptions justify it by saving typing when trying to make use of other classes, templates and the like. It feels like the C++ committee came up with a feature A then added feature B to make using A easier. I'm now doing battle with lambda expressions - another story. So, in your code - do you make extensive use of auto, and how does it help you?
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
The only time I don't use
autois to override the type that the compiler would deduce. That's very rare, usually with the size of a numeric.autois almost always a type returned by a function, or maybe the type of a class member, so there's nothing "dangerous" about it in those situations. Someone reading the code needs to be familiar with the functions and classes being used, or they're fooling themselves as to their level of understanding.Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles
The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing. -
I'm trying to straighten out some pointer "arithmetic" in some existing code. The expressions themselves are overly ambiguous to say the least. In part of my readings, I've come across the "auto" keyword where the compiler deduces what type I need. At least that's what I got from all of the verbiage. This seems a) dangerous and b) adds another level of mental indirection to what you are trying to accomplish. To me, software needs to be very clear and explicit in what data you are working with and what you intend to do with it. A lot of the "here is how auto will help you" descriptions justify it by saving typing when trying to make use of other classes, templates and the like. It feels like the C++ committee came up with a feature A then added feature B to make using A easier. I'm now doing battle with lambda expressions - another story. So, in your code - do you make extensive use of auto, and how does it help you?
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
I use auto as much as I can. I will still use types for POD. I also use variable names that makes sense so that I know what type the variable should be (obviously not hungarian reverse or not notation)
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
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I use auto as much as I can. I will still use types for POD. I also use variable names that makes sense so that I know what type the variable should be (obviously not hungarian reverse or not notation)
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
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POD?
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
Plain Old Data. usually simple types like int, char, float...
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
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Plain Old Data. usually simple types like int, char, float...
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
It appears to me that you may be doing much programming that doesn't really fit into a strong, static typing world. Maybe a dynamically typed language, with any variable having the type of its value (at any time) would suit your problems better. I love the strictness of strong static typing. It makes it possible for the compiler to give me far more detailed and to-the-point error messages and warnings. When reading the code, it provides more information, making it simpler to comprehend the code. There are situations where auto/var is required, e.g. in database operations; I am not objecting to using in in such cases. In most cases, you can extract the values to strongly typed variables. I do not leave them in untyped variables for long. Corollary, I try to avoid deep subclass nesting. Choosing between having to inspect 4-6 superclass definitions to find the definition of a field (hopefully with a comment explaining its use) or extending a superclass with a field that for some instances are left unused, I definitely prefer the latter. (I have many times seen subclasses created for adding a single field - even with several sibling classes adding the same single field!)
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
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It appears to me that you may be doing much programming that doesn't really fit into a strong, static typing world. Maybe a dynamically typed language, with any variable having the type of its value (at any time) would suit your problems better. I love the strictness of strong static typing. It makes it possible for the compiler to give me far more detailed and to-the-point error messages and warnings. When reading the code, it provides more information, making it simpler to comprehend the code. There are situations where auto/var is required, e.g. in database operations; I am not objecting to using in in such cases. In most cases, you can extract the values to strongly typed variables. I do not leave them in untyped variables for long. Corollary, I try to avoid deep subclass nesting. Choosing between having to inspect 4-6 superclass definitions to find the definition of a field (hopefully with a comment explaining its use) or extending a superclass with a field that for some instances are left unused, I definitely prefer the latter. (I have many times seen subclasses created for adding a single field - even with several sibling classes adding the same single field!)
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
I think you're confusing things up. C++ is still strongly typed even when you use auto. when I declare a variable with auto, it will be typed accordingly and I cannot change the type.
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
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It appears to me that you may be doing much programming that doesn't really fit into a strong, static typing world. Maybe a dynamically typed language, with any variable having the type of its value (at any time) would suit your problems better. I love the strictness of strong static typing. It makes it possible for the compiler to give me far more detailed and to-the-point error messages and warnings. When reading the code, it provides more information, making it simpler to comprehend the code. There are situations where auto/var is required, e.g. in database operations; I am not objecting to using in in such cases. In most cases, you can extract the values to strongly typed variables. I do not leave them in untyped variables for long. Corollary, I try to avoid deep subclass nesting. Choosing between having to inspect 4-6 superclass definitions to find the definition of a field (hopefully with a comment explaining its use) or extending a superclass with a field that for some instances are left unused, I definitely prefer the latter. (I have many times seen subclasses created for adding a single field - even with several sibling classes adding the same single field!)
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
In my world - close to hardware - it's important to know and understand the type. Sure, if I'm using a modern IDE with Intellisense (only one comes to mind) auto might help. But, because of the proximity to hardware, we really don't use complex C++ types. Shoot, the last time I tried to use a C++ map, it was 10x slower than a simple linear search loop. I did not believe it at first... But getting back to using auto with it's intellisense interaction, intellisense does it's thing for plain and complex types as well. I'm not sure what the point it (other than reduced typing).
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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I think you're confusing things up. C++ is still strongly typed even when you use auto. when I declare a variable with auto, it will be typed accordingly and I cannot change the type.
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
Maximilien wrote:
when I declare a variable with auto, it will be typed accordingly and I cannot change the type.
Err...in C++? Rather certain you can in fact change the type. Not generally a good idea but one can certainly do it. char* s = ....; int* p = (int*)s; I have seen very limited situations where it provided value.
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Maximilien wrote:
when I declare a variable with auto, it will be typed accordingly and I cannot change the type.
Err...in C++? Rather certain you can in fact change the type. Not generally a good idea but one can certainly do it. char* s = ....; int* p = (int*)s; I have seen very limited situations where it provided value.
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I'm trying to straighten out some pointer "arithmetic" in some existing code. The expressions themselves are overly ambiguous to say the least. In part of my readings, I've come across the "auto" keyword where the compiler deduces what type I need. At least that's what I got from all of the verbiage. This seems a) dangerous and b) adds another level of mental indirection to what you are trying to accomplish. To me, software needs to be very clear and explicit in what data you are working with and what you intend to do with it. A lot of the "here is how auto will help you" descriptions justify it by saving typing when trying to make use of other classes, templates and the like. It feels like the C++ committee came up with a feature A then added feature B to make using A easier. I'm now doing battle with lambda expressions - another story. So, in your code - do you make extensive use of auto, and how does it help you?
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
As already mentioned in several answers, auto keyword doesn't make C++ code less strong-typed or type-safe. So, using auto is individual preference. In some cases (such as templates, lambda) there is no other choice. When auto is optional, I always use it for complicated types, like container iterators. I also like auto in container enumeration code:
for(const auto& x: my_container)
{
// ...
}As for local variables, it depends. Sometimes we want the variable to have another type. If the variable must have the same type, as expression, auto can help, when the code is changed:
std::vector v;
// ...
short n = v[0];Consider the situation, when we change the container type to int:
std::vector v;
// ...
short n1 = v[0]; // oops, variable type should be changed as well
auto n2 = v[0]; // this is OK
decltype(v)::value_type n3 = v[0]; // this is also OK, though I don't like itI find myself using auto more and more. Sometimes, when I want to see exactly, what I am doing, I prefer to use an explicit type.
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Maximilien wrote:
when I declare a variable with auto, it will be typed accordingly and I cannot change the type.
Err...in C++? Rather certain you can in fact change the type. Not generally a good idea but one can certainly do it. char* s = ....; int* p = (int*)s; I have seen very limited situations where it provided value.
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As already mentioned in several answers, auto keyword doesn't make C++ code less strong-typed or type-safe. So, using auto is individual preference. In some cases (such as templates, lambda) there is no other choice. When auto is optional, I always use it for complicated types, like container iterators. I also like auto in container enumeration code:
for(const auto& x: my_container)
{
// ...
}As for local variables, it depends. Sometimes we want the variable to have another type. If the variable must have the same type, as expression, auto can help, when the code is changed:
std::vector v;
// ...
short n = v[0];Consider the situation, when we change the container type to int:
std::vector v;
// ...
short n1 = v[0]; // oops, variable type should be changed as well
auto n2 = v[0]; // this is OK
decltype(v)::value_type n3 = v[0]; // this is also OK, though I don't like itI find myself using auto more and more. Sometimes, when I want to see exactly, what I am doing, I prefer to use an explicit type.
I clearly have a limited understanding of C++. I admittedly come from a C background, and I have embraced the general concepts of C++ (most of the 4 pillars). But I'm going to be honest here :) It seems to me that auto is fixing or making easier to use some of the more spurious features of C++. Just a general thought, but it gets back to my original post/question. For example, your comment: "decltype(v)::value_type n3 = v[0];" means absolutely nothing to me. I'm at the level of wtf? So, I went out to the internet and read: "Inspects the declared type of an entity or the type and value category of an expression." for decltype. I still don't know what that means. Are we off in the top 0.01% land of coding? It's okay, I found my niche long ago, but seriously, it feels like so many special features have been added that only apply to the religious fanatics of code land.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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I clearly have a limited understanding of C++. I admittedly come from a C background, and I have embraced the general concepts of C++ (most of the 4 pillars). But I'm going to be honest here :) It seems to me that auto is fixing or making easier to use some of the more spurious features of C++. Just a general thought, but it gets back to my original post/question. For example, your comment: "decltype(v)::value_type n3 = v[0];" means absolutely nothing to me. I'm at the level of wtf? So, I went out to the internet and read: "Inspects the declared type of an entity or the type and value category of an expression." for decltype. I still don't know what that means. Are we off in the top 0.01% land of coding? It's okay, I found my niche long ago, but seriously, it feels like so many special features have been added that only apply to the religious fanatics of code land.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
I also prefer C over C++, and decltype example was kind of joke. Bad joke, I guess. In any case: decltype(v) means: type of v variable, vector of int in this case. vector type has value_type typedef, defined as T, see here: std::vector - cppreference.com[^] So, this ridiculous (for anyone, except C++ snobs) line is translated by compiler to int, i.e. vector template parameter.
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I also prefer C over C++, and decltype example was kind of joke. Bad joke, I guess. In any case: decltype(v) means: type of v variable, vector of int in this case. vector type has value_type typedef, defined as T, see here: std::vector - cppreference.com[^] So, this ridiculous (for anyone, except C++ snobs) line is translated by compiler to int, i.e. vector template parameter.
(for anyone, except C++ snobs) Now I need to clean my screen - just spit all over it laughing. honestly, I did make the comment that there are people out there that code at a level I cannot even comprehend. I've come to call them "code witches" <--- I'm waiting to see if anyone follows the reference ;) I read your description of what decltype does and I think, "hmm, I need to pass gas." It's almost like some of the new "features" and auto is not new - 2010 ish raise areas of C++ to a meta programming language on it's own. Macros on steroids or something.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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That does not change anything, it's a cast. It merely tells the compiler "even though
sis achar*, for this statement only, pretend it points to anint.I believe that in terms of the semantic functionality that the type is now changed. If you have a method that takes the second type, the compiler will complain if you pass the first but not the second. I have in fact used a char array as a integer before. At least in that case there was no definable difference between the two. So exactly, in terms of the language, how does the cast not make it into a different type?
