Am I just crotchety?
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Worse - non thread safe memory allocation that c++ does at a whim. That drove us crazy for months until we figured out what was going on.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
I don't even use the STL on embedded, mostly because I've run into incomplete and/or non-compliant implementations and I don't want to keep track of which platforms I need to fork for. Secondarily, the way it uses the heap is shameful out of the box. Utterly irresponsible unless you have gobs of RAM to where heap frag is never an issue, so you're usually stuck creating your own custom allocators and your own management scheme, but aside from that, many devices have multiple heaps with different sizes and performance characteristics, and getting The STL to handle that gracefully is just more trouble than it's worth, IMO.
Check out my IoT graphics library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx And my IoT UI/User Experience library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix
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I don't even use the STL on embedded, mostly because I've run into incomplete and/or non-compliant implementations and I don't want to keep track of which platforms I need to fork for. Secondarily, the way it uses the heap is shameful out of the box. Utterly irresponsible unless you have gobs of RAM to where heap frag is never an issue, so you're usually stuck creating your own custom allocators and your own management scheme, but aside from that, many devices have multiple heaps with different sizes and performance characteristics, and getting The STL to handle that gracefully is just more trouble than it's worth, IMO.
Check out my IoT graphics library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx And my IoT UI/User Experience library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix
The shop I'm leaving cannot spell STL. There were hopes, but design went into a different direction. All of the base code is written in pure C, the HMI - when one is needed is all JavaScript gobbly gook. Company just got fed up with MS bullshit.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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The shop I'm leaving cannot spell STL. There were hopes, but design went into a different direction. All of the base code is written in pure C, the HMI - when one is needed is all JavaScript gobbly gook. Company just got fed up with MS bullshit.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
Yeah. As far as I can tell Microsoft didn't truly straighten out their C++ compiler until VS 2022. That's when my standards compliant code started compiling for it, and it wasn't even using the STL, though it makes heavy use of templates.
Check out my IoT graphics library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx And my IoT UI/User Experience library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix
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There are certain things that are not appropriate in 192KB of SRAM. Garbage collection is one of them. There are certain things that are not appropriate on an 80MHz CPU. Running an interpreter is one of them. So why in the world is MicroPython so popular? It's ridiculously slow, and just recently I've been trying diagnose what looks like (but can't be?) a heap frag issue in some MP firmware. You can also write poor C and C++ code, of course. But the difference is you can also write *good* C and C++ code. :mad:
Check out my IoT graphics library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx And my IoT UI/User Experience library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix
I guarantee this is work safe: (This explains the way I see Codewitch.) Google Images[^]
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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I guarantee this is work safe: (This explains the way I see Codewitch.) Google Images[^]
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
I have no idea why you'd think that. *hides ACME shipping receipts*
Check out my IoT graphics library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx And my IoT UI/User Experience library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix
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I don't even use the STL on embedded, mostly because I've run into incomplete and/or non-compliant implementations and I don't want to keep track of which platforms I need to fork for. Secondarily, the way it uses the heap is shameful out of the box. Utterly irresponsible unless you have gobs of RAM to where heap frag is never an issue, so you're usually stuck creating your own custom allocators and your own management scheme, but aside from that, many devices have multiple heaps with different sizes and performance characteristics, and getting The STL to handle that gracefully is just more trouble than it's worth, IMO.
Check out my IoT graphics library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx And my IoT UI/User Experience library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix
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There are certain things that are not appropriate in 192KB of SRAM. Garbage collection is one of them. There are certain things that are not appropriate on an 80MHz CPU. Running an interpreter is one of them. So why in the world is MicroPython so popular? It's ridiculously slow, and just recently I've been trying diagnose what looks like (but can't be?) a heap frag issue in some MP firmware. You can also write poor C and C++ code, of course. But the difference is you can also write *good* C and C++ code. :mad:
Check out my IoT graphics library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx And my IoT UI/User Experience library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix
Windows has been running for ages on computers to slow to run it :laugh:
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The shop I'm leaving cannot spell STL. There were hopes, but design went into a different direction. All of the base code is written in pure C, the HMI - when one is needed is all JavaScript gobbly gook. Company just got fed up with MS bullshit.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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I guarantee this is work safe: (This explains the way I see Codewitch.) Google Images[^]
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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I could draw metaphor for choosing js over msft but none would be appropriate for posting here... too vulgar.
The context of my comment goes back 10 years or more, when Microsoft abandoned the embedded devices market and threw an entire industry under the bus. Where once I used WinCE and WEC7, my customer said "f&&* this" and moved to devices that run on "we don't care just give me a modern browser." Microsoft erred in trying to port their OS and desktop to embedded devices, but they did a great job marketing it. Then they abandoned the entire platform, tools, etc. After a few years they came back with their new offerings. No traction. No one in the embedded space I work in is using anything Windows, and as a professional I would seriously question your decisions if you wanted to push that crap. The bus left the station a long time ago.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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The context of my comment goes back 10 years or more, when Microsoft abandoned the embedded devices market and threw an entire industry under the bus. Where once I used WinCE and WEC7, my customer said "f&&* this" and moved to devices that run on "we don't care just give me a modern browser." Microsoft erred in trying to port their OS and desktop to embedded devices, but they did a great job marketing it. Then they abandoned the entire platform, tools, etc. After a few years they came back with their new offerings. No traction. No one in the embedded space I work in is using anything Windows, and as a professional I would seriously question your decisions if you wanted to push that crap. The bus left the station a long time ago.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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I remember that. I don't do embedded aside hobbyist stuff. I still think choosing js if anything else is at all possible is a bigger mistake than any I made in that post.
5 years ago I would completely agree with you. But, these days I can drop a gigabit ethernet device on a board along with a 400MHz+ ARM process that services a dirt cheap touchscreen running a current browser, and I don't have to worry about the touchscreen's OS. I can then pull up a browser on my phone, or my desktop and talk to the device. Touchscreen maker gets funky? Next maker. As gnarly as JavaScript is, I hate looking at it (my personal problem), it works. And I don't think MS can f with JavaScript. Or a browser. It represents a stable platform relative to Microsoft. My customer switched, there's a whiz kid in the s/w group that pounded out a framework, and they aren't looking back. The application uses JavaScript, Web sockets and more - all of it open source with people that understand you cannot break what you released before. Would I use JavaScript for a desktop application? Unlikely, but then again....
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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5 years ago I would completely agree with you. But, these days I can drop a gigabit ethernet device on a board along with a 400MHz+ ARM process that services a dirt cheap touchscreen running a current browser, and I don't have to worry about the touchscreen's OS. I can then pull up a browser on my phone, or my desktop and talk to the device. Touchscreen maker gets funky? Next maker. As gnarly as JavaScript is, I hate looking at it (my personal problem), it works. And I don't think MS can f with JavaScript. Or a browser. It represents a stable platform relative to Microsoft. My customer switched, there's a whiz kid in the s/w group that pounded out a framework, and they aren't looking back. The application uses JavaScript, Web sockets and more - all of it open source with people that understand you cannot break what you released before. Would I use JavaScript for a desktop application? Unlikely, but then again....
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
