Sleeping in full light
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If you sleep outdoors this time of the year in Norway, you must be prepared for limited darkness trough the night. Visitors from further south may have problems getting a good nights sleep. Indoors it should be less of a problem, you'd think - just pull the curtain. It doesn't always work ... Every summer, Oslo, Norway, arranges an international giant soccer tournament for kids 6-16 years, called Norway Cup. It has been held since 1972; this year 12,000 kids are participating. The kids sleep in sleeping bags in the classrooms of schools nearby. About a thousand of them will sleep with the lights turned on in the ceiling. Why? The lights are controlled by IR sensors. With 30 kids sleeping in the classroom, the sensors are not it doubt: People are present; lights should be turned on. But isn't there a main switch for turning the light off, regardless of what the sensor says? Yes, there is - but that will also turn off the lights in the emergency signs, the arrows pointing in the direction of the exit, in case the building has to be evacuated. For security reasons, those lights cannot be turned off. Therefore the ceiling lights cannot be turned off in the room where the kids are sleeping. I laughed out hysterically when I read this in the newspaper. Whoever designed this light control should be dipped in tar and rolled in feathers.
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
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If you sleep outdoors this time of the year in Norway, you must be prepared for limited darkness trough the night. Visitors from further south may have problems getting a good nights sleep. Indoors it should be less of a problem, you'd think - just pull the curtain. It doesn't always work ... Every summer, Oslo, Norway, arranges an international giant soccer tournament for kids 6-16 years, called Norway Cup. It has been held since 1972; this year 12,000 kids are participating. The kids sleep in sleeping bags in the classrooms of schools nearby. About a thousand of them will sleep with the lights turned on in the ceiling. Why? The lights are controlled by IR sensors. With 30 kids sleeping in the classroom, the sensors are not it doubt: People are present; lights should be turned on. But isn't there a main switch for turning the light off, regardless of what the sensor says? Yes, there is - but that will also turn off the lights in the emergency signs, the arrows pointing in the direction of the exit, in case the building has to be evacuated. For security reasons, those lights cannot be turned off. Therefore the ceiling lights cannot be turned off in the room where the kids are sleeping. I laughed out hysterically when I read this in the newspaper. Whoever designed this light control should be dipped in tar and rolled in feathers.
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
I'm going on vacation for 2 weeks but if you give me dimensions and such I'll design and print for you.
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If you sleep outdoors this time of the year in Norway, you must be prepared for limited darkness trough the night. Visitors from further south may have problems getting a good nights sleep. Indoors it should be less of a problem, you'd think - just pull the curtain. It doesn't always work ... Every summer, Oslo, Norway, arranges an international giant soccer tournament for kids 6-16 years, called Norway Cup. It has been held since 1972; this year 12,000 kids are participating. The kids sleep in sleeping bags in the classrooms of schools nearby. About a thousand of them will sleep with the lights turned on in the ceiling. Why? The lights are controlled by IR sensors. With 30 kids sleeping in the classroom, the sensors are not it doubt: People are present; lights should be turned on. But isn't there a main switch for turning the light off, regardless of what the sensor says? Yes, there is - but that will also turn off the lights in the emergency signs, the arrows pointing in the direction of the exit, in case the building has to be evacuated. For security reasons, those lights cannot be turned off. Therefore the ceiling lights cannot be turned off in the room where the kids are sleeping. I laughed out hysterically when I read this in the newspaper. Whoever designed this light control should be dipped in tar and rolled in feathers.
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
:) Once doing work in Hamburg Germany during the summer, I learned to get a hotel room with dark curtains if room had exterior view. It is about ~53 deg north, so sun rises very early and sets very late, more so in Norway.
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day" Badfinger
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If you sleep outdoors this time of the year in Norway, you must be prepared for limited darkness trough the night. Visitors from further south may have problems getting a good nights sleep. Indoors it should be less of a problem, you'd think - just pull the curtain. It doesn't always work ... Every summer, Oslo, Norway, arranges an international giant soccer tournament for kids 6-16 years, called Norway Cup. It has been held since 1972; this year 12,000 kids are participating. The kids sleep in sleeping bags in the classrooms of schools nearby. About a thousand of them will sleep with the lights turned on in the ceiling. Why? The lights are controlled by IR sensors. With 30 kids sleeping in the classroom, the sensors are not it doubt: People are present; lights should be turned on. But isn't there a main switch for turning the light off, regardless of what the sensor says? Yes, there is - but that will also turn off the lights in the emergency signs, the arrows pointing in the direction of the exit, in case the building has to be evacuated. For security reasons, those lights cannot be turned off. Therefore the ceiling lights cannot be turned off in the room where the kids are sleeping. I laughed out hysterically when I read this in the newspaper. Whoever designed this light control should be dipped in tar and rolled in feathers.
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
Smart lighting is more than 20 years old, where a mobile app can control dimming of lights. They could have used such a technology isn't it? Since I was working for Philips for some years, am aware of this technology.
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If you sleep outdoors this time of the year in Norway, you must be prepared for limited darkness trough the night. Visitors from further south may have problems getting a good nights sleep. Indoors it should be less of a problem, you'd think - just pull the curtain. It doesn't always work ... Every summer, Oslo, Norway, arranges an international giant soccer tournament for kids 6-16 years, called Norway Cup. It has been held since 1972; this year 12,000 kids are participating. The kids sleep in sleeping bags in the classrooms of schools nearby. About a thousand of them will sleep with the lights turned on in the ceiling. Why? The lights are controlled by IR sensors. With 30 kids sleeping in the classroom, the sensors are not it doubt: People are present; lights should be turned on. But isn't there a main switch for turning the light off, regardless of what the sensor says? Yes, there is - but that will also turn off the lights in the emergency signs, the arrows pointing in the direction of the exit, in case the building has to be evacuated. For security reasons, those lights cannot be turned off. Therefore the ceiling lights cannot be turned off in the room where the kids are sleeping. I laughed out hysterically when I read this in the newspaper. Whoever designed this light control should be dipped in tar and rolled in feathers.
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
I don't know about Norway, but I am pretty sure not having emergency lighting isolated to its own circuit from the main board is illegal here.
Software rusts. Simon Stephenson, ca 1994. So does this signature. me, 2012
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I don't know about Norway, but I am pretty sure not having emergency lighting isolated to its own circuit from the main board is illegal here.
Software rusts. Simon Stephenson, ca 1994. So does this signature. me, 2012
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Smart lighting is more than 20 years old, where a mobile app can control dimming of lights. They could have used such a technology isn't it? Since I was working for Philips for some years, am aware of this technology.
I've been in Norway at this time of year, at a latitude similar to Oslo, and dimming the lights wouldn't have much of a noticeable effect between about 11pm and 2am. It's probably better for the kids to practice sleeping in full light. :-D
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If you sleep outdoors this time of the year in Norway, you must be prepared for limited darkness trough the night. Visitors from further south may have problems getting a good nights sleep. Indoors it should be less of a problem, you'd think - just pull the curtain. It doesn't always work ... Every summer, Oslo, Norway, arranges an international giant soccer tournament for kids 6-16 years, called Norway Cup. It has been held since 1972; this year 12,000 kids are participating. The kids sleep in sleeping bags in the classrooms of schools nearby. About a thousand of them will sleep with the lights turned on in the ceiling. Why? The lights are controlled by IR sensors. With 30 kids sleeping in the classroom, the sensors are not it doubt: People are present; lights should be turned on. But isn't there a main switch for turning the light off, regardless of what the sensor says? Yes, there is - but that will also turn off the lights in the emergency signs, the arrows pointing in the direction of the exit, in case the building has to be evacuated. For security reasons, those lights cannot be turned off. Therefore the ceiling lights cannot be turned off in the room where the kids are sleeping. I laughed out hysterically when I read this in the newspaper. Whoever designed this light control should be dipped in tar and rolled in feathers.
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
trønderen wrote:
that will also turn off the lights in the emergency signs, the arrows pointing in the direction of the exit, in case the building has to be evacuated
You do point out that it doesn't get dark. Those signs aren't visible unless they're lit? In broad daylight? Seriously, if the building has to be evacuated, they'll somehow figure it out. It's a classroom, I'm guessing the school isn't that big. Warning labels were made for the people in charge. F****** nanny state is everywhere apparently.
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If you sleep outdoors this time of the year in Norway, you must be prepared for limited darkness trough the night. Visitors from further south may have problems getting a good nights sleep. Indoors it should be less of a problem, you'd think - just pull the curtain. It doesn't always work ... Every summer, Oslo, Norway, arranges an international giant soccer tournament for kids 6-16 years, called Norway Cup. It has been held since 1972; this year 12,000 kids are participating. The kids sleep in sleeping bags in the classrooms of schools nearby. About a thousand of them will sleep with the lights turned on in the ceiling. Why? The lights are controlled by IR sensors. With 30 kids sleeping in the classroom, the sensors are not it doubt: People are present; lights should be turned on. But isn't there a main switch for turning the light off, regardless of what the sensor says? Yes, there is - but that will also turn off the lights in the emergency signs, the arrows pointing in the direction of the exit, in case the building has to be evacuated. For security reasons, those lights cannot be turned off. Therefore the ceiling lights cannot be turned off in the room where the kids are sleeping. I laughed out hysterically when I read this in the newspaper. Whoever designed this light control should be dipped in tar and rolled in feathers.
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
trønderen wrote:
But isn't there a main switch for turning the light off, regardless of what the sensor says? Yes, there is - but that will also turn off the lights in the emergency signs...
While the main breaker would kill ALL of the lights, code would not have allowed these two lighting systems to be on the same circuit, thus they would each have a separate breaker.
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
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Smart lighting is more than 20 years old, where a mobile app can control dimming of lights. They could have used such a technology isn't it? Since I was working for Philips for some years, am aware of this technology.
Amarnath S wrote:
Smart lighting is more than 20 years old
In this country, we started building schools much more than 20 years ago, some of them with a build quality to make them stand even today! :-) I am sure that the manufacturers would be jumping of joy if every new technology announcement would make every school, and other public institution immediately throw out all their old stuff and replace it with the new technology. (Sometimes, I have a feeling that it is that way!) I am not sure that taxpayers are equally happy with it. I have been pondering 'smart' technology for my home for 30 years. Except for being 'new' and something to show to my friends, I still haven't found a single area where it has any other value for me personally. I guess that the situation is the same in many schools. If all you get from smart technology is dimmable light: We had that in my childhood, decades before the term 'smart home' was conceived.
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
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:) Once doing work in Hamburg Germany during the summer, I learned to get a hotel room with dark curtains if room had exterior view. It is about ~53 deg north, so sun rises very early and sets very late, more so in Norway.
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day" Badfinger
Sunrise today: 03:54. Sunset: 22:52. But don't think of it as 'dark' from sunset to sunrise! At 01:00 it is still enough light to read a newspaper outdoors, without the aid of artificial light.
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
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I don't know about Norway, but I am pretty sure not having emergency lighting isolated to its own circuit from the main board is illegal here.
Software rusts. Simon Stephenson, ca 1994. So does this signature. me, 2012
That surprised me, too. I can't believe that the solution at that school is according to Norwegian regulations. We use to be very strict on such things. But then, if the school was built 50 years ago, and regulations were less strict then, maybe it was legal in those days. Maybe the politicians were so concerned about unnecessary public spending that when regulations were tightened, they decided to leave the school untouched.
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
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trønderen wrote:
that will also turn off the lights in the emergency signs, the arrows pointing in the direction of the exit, in case the building has to be evacuated
You do point out that it doesn't get dark. Those signs aren't visible unless they're lit? In broad daylight? Seriously, if the building has to be evacuated, they'll somehow figure it out. It's a classroom, I'm guessing the school isn't that big. Warning labels were made for the people in charge. F****** nanny state is everywhere apparently.
Indoor signs do not always have 'broad daylight'. And even if it doesn't get pitch dark at night, indoor corridors do get a little shady when the sun sets.
dandy72 wrote:
Seriously, if the building has to be evacuated, they'll somehow figure it out.
There are reasons why that kind of signs have been introduced. I suspect that if your son or daughter were killed in a midnight fire when panic broke out because the sleepy crowd, just woken up, hadn't learned the layout of the school and didn't know the way out, you would have wished that there was a nanny there to help them out. Sorry about being this cruel in my description, but in my eyes, you were the one starting out, referring to the requirement for a simple exit arrow as a 'nanny state'. The implications of what you are saying is that 'If they can't find the exit without an exit arrow, they deserve to die in that fire'. That is equally cruel. Reserve the term 'nanny state' for more important things than mandatory exit signs.
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
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trønderen wrote:
But isn't there a main switch for turning the light off, regardless of what the sensor says? Yes, there is - but that will also turn off the lights in the emergency signs...
While the main breaker would kill ALL of the lights, code would not have allowed these two lighting systems to be on the same circuit, thus they would each have a separate breaker.
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
That is the crazy thing. I guess an electrician will be called to change the electric layout, now that this has come out. I would even think that there was a requirement for a battery backup of the exit signs. There is a significant risk that what causes an evacuation also would cause the main power supply to be cut off.
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
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If you sleep outdoors this time of the year in Norway, you must be prepared for limited darkness trough the night. Visitors from further south may have problems getting a good nights sleep. Indoors it should be less of a problem, you'd think - just pull the curtain. It doesn't always work ... Every summer, Oslo, Norway, arranges an international giant soccer tournament for kids 6-16 years, called Norway Cup. It has been held since 1972; this year 12,000 kids are participating. The kids sleep in sleeping bags in the classrooms of schools nearby. About a thousand of them will sleep with the lights turned on in the ceiling. Why? The lights are controlled by IR sensors. With 30 kids sleeping in the classroom, the sensors are not it doubt: People are present; lights should be turned on. But isn't there a main switch for turning the light off, regardless of what the sensor says? Yes, there is - but that will also turn off the lights in the emergency signs, the arrows pointing in the direction of the exit, in case the building has to be evacuated. For security reasons, those lights cannot be turned off. Therefore the ceiling lights cannot be turned off in the room where the kids are sleeping. I laughed out hysterically when I read this in the newspaper. Whoever designed this light control should be dipped in tar and rolled in feathers.
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
trønderen wrote:
With 30 kids sleeping in the classroom,
So a bunch of kids, hyped up for a competitive sport on an exciting trip and probably with a lot of friends around. Must be really well behaved kids if everyone expects them to drop off to sleep regardless of the light situation. Not to mention of course that most kids can fall asleep leaning halfway out of a chair in a well lighted room with adults yelling right above their heads.
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That surprised me, too. I can't believe that the solution at that school is according to Norwegian regulations. We use to be very strict on such things. But then, if the school was built 50 years ago, and regulations were less strict then, maybe it was legal in those days. Maybe the politicians were so concerned about unnecessary public spending that when regulations were tightened, they decided to leave the school untouched.
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
I just looked up a 1976 copy of Australian Standard 3000 (Wiring Rules), which makes it clear that those provisions (separate circuit, protected wiring etc) applied then. Maybe the school administration can expect a visit from the electrical authority. As an aside, last year I had some wiring changes/additions in my house (new bathroom), and although the existing wiring is quite modern, they had to add an earth stake (MEN system) to comply with 2023 regulations.
Software rusts. Simon Stephenson, ca 1994. So does this signature. me, 2012
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Sunrise today: 03:54. Sunset: 22:52. But don't think of it as 'dark' from sunset to sunrise! At 01:00 it is still enough light to read a newspaper outdoors, without the aid of artificial light.
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
Wow, I knew it wasn't very dark outside @1:00am, but I was looking for sleep at that time. Far north (and south) locations are truly the "midnight sun" experience. Here in TX, one can't wait for the sun to go down to get relief from the heat.
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day" Badfinger
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Indoor signs do not always have 'broad daylight'. And even if it doesn't get pitch dark at night, indoor corridors do get a little shady when the sun sets.
dandy72 wrote:
Seriously, if the building has to be evacuated, they'll somehow figure it out.
There are reasons why that kind of signs have been introduced. I suspect that if your son or daughter were killed in a midnight fire when panic broke out because the sleepy crowd, just woken up, hadn't learned the layout of the school and didn't know the way out, you would have wished that there was a nanny there to help them out. Sorry about being this cruel in my description, but in my eyes, you were the one starting out, referring to the requirement for a simple exit arrow as a 'nanny state'. The implications of what you are saying is that 'If they can't find the exit without an exit arrow, they deserve to die in that fire'. That is equally cruel. Reserve the term 'nanny state' for more important things than mandatory exit signs.
Religious freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make five.
trønderen wrote:
Indoor signs do not always have 'broad daylight'.
...in a thread with a subject line of "sleeping in full light". Pardon me for somehow misinterpreting what "full light" means.
trønderen wrote:
And even if it doesn't get pitch dark at night, indoor corridors do get a little shady when the sun sets.
...and you choose to only bring this up *now*. I might have taken a different stance otherwise. You did kinda go out of your way in the original message to make a point about how it doesn't get dark.
trønderen wrote:
'If they can't find the exit without an exit arrow, they deserve to die in that fire'
Now you're trying to put words in my mouth, words saying the exact opposite of what I wrote, which is: > they'll somehow figure it out. ...IOW, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt in that they're smart enough to find an exit on their own. But you tried to flip that around and infer I was saying they're not and deserve to die. If that's not misrepresenting what I wrote (and intentionally trying to make me look like a complete jerk in the process), I don't know what is.
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trønderen wrote:
With 30 kids sleeping in the classroom,
So a bunch of kids, hyped up for a competitive sport on an exciting trip and probably with a lot of friends around. Must be really well behaved kids if everyone expects them to drop off to sleep regardless of the light situation. Not to mention of course that most kids can fall asleep leaning halfway out of a chair in a well lighted room with adults yelling right above their heads.
