Do you trust the "Cloud"?
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In view of the catastrophic global IT mess: Do you still trust the cloud? I never have and never will.:mad: Yes, I do save some non critical data there, but is is fully backed up in local storage. I will never get in a position where cloud failures can harm me.
Ok, I have had my coffee, so you can all come out now!
Absolutely not. Going back to pre cloud days (more on that in a second) say early 90s, the wife started a web site development business. At the time, none of our customers could afford their own server, and someone figured out how to create one server and sell multiple virtual servers hosted on it. Now, my wife was the html monkey while I handled the Perl and server errors, sql stuff. The more I learned about virtual servers, the more I as adamant in that we were not going to save customer information for any customer. If a website wanted to handle CC transactions, we offboarded it to some other site that I cannot remember the name. Why? 1) Sure the info goes over https. Then it goes into a mysql database on a virtual server that I have no control over. If the server owner has a bad actor, all of the sites we support were wide open. Customers did not understand this. 2) Vulnerability. If someone takes the base server down, you're down. If they hack the base server, our customers are screwed. We actually had this happen. A hacker got into the hosting company, contaminated the OS and just waited. The hosting company never detected it and after 90 days, all of the backups were corrupt. Their only option was to format the hard drives. Keep a separate backup rule learned the hard way. 3) Although Microsoft (this post, I am not picking on them specifically) gushes about how protected the Azure servers are, they run on common hardware for multiple customers, and they have been caught more than once with improper security settings allowing one customer to see other customers' data. I have no idea about the Amazon and HP environments, but if I were paranoid.... What amazes me about corporations and governments doing this is that they think they are being responsible from having a legal service agreement. We promise, they promise, etc. This is what happens when management hides behind these legal agreements. You never, ever want to have to refer to the contract except for trivial things. Cloudstrike and likely Microsoft are going to be writing a lot of checks over the next few months - if they survive. I just hope no one died. YOU DO NOT DESIGN IN A SINGLE POINT OF FAILURE FOR MISSION CRITICAL SYSTEMS.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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In view of the catastrophic global IT mess: Do you still trust the cloud? I never have and never will.:mad: Yes, I do save some non critical data there, but is is fully backed up in local storage. I will never get in a position where cloud failures can harm me.
Ok, I have had my coffee, so you can all come out now!
Never have, never will. It's a mania. The only one you can trust with your stuff is you. If you can't even trust yourself, why would you trust someone else?
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In view of the catastrophic global IT mess: Do you still trust the cloud? I never have and never will.:mad: Yes, I do save some non critical data there, but is is fully backed up in local storage. I will never get in a position where cloud failures can harm me.
Ok, I have had my coffee, so you can all come out now!
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Absolutely not. Going back to pre cloud days (more on that in a second) say early 90s, the wife started a web site development business. At the time, none of our customers could afford their own server, and someone figured out how to create one server and sell multiple virtual servers hosted on it. Now, my wife was the html monkey while I handled the Perl and server errors, sql stuff. The more I learned about virtual servers, the more I as adamant in that we were not going to save customer information for any customer. If a website wanted to handle CC transactions, we offboarded it to some other site that I cannot remember the name. Why? 1) Sure the info goes over https. Then it goes into a mysql database on a virtual server that I have no control over. If the server owner has a bad actor, all of the sites we support were wide open. Customers did not understand this. 2) Vulnerability. If someone takes the base server down, you're down. If they hack the base server, our customers are screwed. We actually had this happen. A hacker got into the hosting company, contaminated the OS and just waited. The hosting company never detected it and after 90 days, all of the backups were corrupt. Their only option was to format the hard drives. Keep a separate backup rule learned the hard way. 3) Although Microsoft (this post, I am not picking on them specifically) gushes about how protected the Azure servers are, they run on common hardware for multiple customers, and they have been caught more than once with improper security settings allowing one customer to see other customers' data. I have no idea about the Amazon and HP environments, but if I were paranoid.... What amazes me about corporations and governments doing this is that they think they are being responsible from having a legal service agreement. We promise, they promise, etc. This is what happens when management hides behind these legal agreements. You never, ever want to have to refer to the contract except for trivial things. Cloudstrike and likely Microsoft are going to be writing a lot of checks over the next few months - if they survive. I just hope no one died. YOU DO NOT DESIGN IN A SINGLE POINT OF FAILURE FOR MISSION CRITICAL SYSTEMS.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
charlieg wrote:
Cloudstrike and likely Microsoft
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charlieg wrote:
if they survive
3 trillion dollars in market valuation (and only going down fractions of a percentage point since this started) says Microsoft will be okay. I may agree with you about Cloudstrike however.
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Never have, never will. It's a mania. The only one you can trust with your stuff is you. If you can't even trust yourself, why would you trust someone else?
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charlieg wrote:
Cloudstrike and likely Microsoft
[...]
charlieg wrote:
if they survive
3 trillion dollars in market valuation (and only going down fractions of a percentage point since this started) says Microsoft will be okay. I may agree with you about Cloudstrike however.
yeah, did not make myself clear there. Cloudstrike is far more vulnerable. but this going to end up costing both billions. Companies are just not putting up with this stuff. Experian settled out of court A LOT. It's the downside of collecting data in those cases.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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Cp-Coder wrote:
I will never get in a position where cloud failures can harm me.
If you have any amount of money in a bank, I'm afraid I have bad news for ya...
One of the reasons I'm no longer working for a bank is because "someone up there" had the bright idea of putting all of our stuff in a cloud. I got out a year ago. Security concerns aside, I tried to warn my management that performance would be even worse -- our daily processing was already taking fifteen hours to complete, on physical servers in our datacenter. The inmates are running the asylum.
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In view of the catastrophic global IT mess: Do you still trust the cloud? I never have and never will.:mad: Yes, I do save some non critical data there, but is is fully backed up in local storage. I will never get in a position where cloud failures can harm me.
Ok, I have had my coffee, so you can all come out now!
I haven't and don't. Probably won't. Trouble is that it's your data, and you are handing it over to people you don't know who almost certainly pay their staff as little as possible to manage it. What is their security really like? How often do they really backup your data? What are the chances they will still be in business in five years? Or still in the Cloud hosting business, at least? What happens if ransomware gets into the cloud storage? Just the thought of that should send chills down your spine ... Just look at stuff that has been trawled out of cloud storage already and you have to wonder why anyone would trust it ... we aren't talking small companies who might not understand the risks: Yahoo, Microsoft, Target, Twatter / X, Farcebook / Meta, LinkedIn, Dropbox, Uber, Marriott International, Equifax, Capital One, iCloud ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Cp-Coder wrote:
I will never get in a position where cloud failures can harm me.
If you have any amount of money in a bank, I'm afraid I have bad news for ya...
There are many more reasons, like prop trading, that can get you into trouble if you have a lot of your money in a bank. You're an unsecured creditor of the bank, and many countries have passed legislation saying that your money can be used to bail it out if it gets into trouble. Even if you use a responsible bank, you'll end up paying, in the form of either taxes or money printing, to bail out the banks that are "too big to fail".
Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles
The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing. -
In view of the catastrophic global IT mess: Do you still trust the cloud? I never have and never will.:mad: Yes, I do save some non critical data there, but is is fully backed up in local storage. I will never get in a position where cloud failures can harm me.
Ok, I have had my coffee, so you can all come out now!
u cant do much the now a days.. but this is the worse thing ever IT people need to stop pushing such crap into production...
Caveat Emptor. "Progress doesn't come from early risers – progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things." Lazarus Long
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There are many more reasons, like prop trading, that can get you into trouble if you have a lot of your money in a bank. You're an unsecured creditor of the bank, and many countries have passed legislation saying that your money can be used to bail it out if it gets into trouble. Even if you use a responsible bank, you'll end up paying, in the form of either taxes or money printing, to bail out the banks that are "too big to fail".
Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles
The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.It does the soul good to see you guys talk about how crooked banking is. 1,000% agree btw... Fractional reserve lending is the bane of our economies.
Jeremy Falcon
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It does the soul good to see you guys talk about how crooked banking is. 1,000% agree btw... Fractional reserve lending is the bane of our economies.
Jeremy Falcon
It was former Swiss law that the principals of a bank were liable, to the full extent of their personal wealth, for making depositors whole if the bank got into trouble. That law needs to return. So does the US Coin Act of 1793, under which the penalty for debauching the currency was death.
Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles
The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing. -
In view of the catastrophic global IT mess: Do you still trust the cloud? I never have and never will.:mad: Yes, I do save some non critical data there, but is is fully backed up in local storage. I will never get in a position where cloud failures can harm me.
Ok, I have had my coffee, so you can all come out now!
Have heard that solutions to some nonlinear differential equations are extremely sensitive to initial conditions. A small delta in the initial conditions causes a drastic change in response. Never thought that this could happen in code. A small (?) update in a third-party software causes massive outage. The term SOUP (Software of Unknown Provenance) usually used in medical software, now perhaps applies to the suite of Microsoft products.
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It was former Swiss law that the principals of a bank were liable, to the full extent of their personal wealth, for making depositors whole if the bank got into trouble. That law needs to return. So does the US Coin Act of 1793, under which the penalty for debauching the currency was death.
Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles
The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.Amen. There are more banksters that deserve stringing up than muderers. Most murders are "spur of the moment" things, while the bankksters do it deliberately, year after year.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- 6079 Smith W.
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In view of the catastrophic global IT mess: Do you still trust the cloud? I never have and never will.:mad: Yes, I do save some non critical data there, but is is fully backed up in local storage. I will never get in a position where cloud failures can harm me.
Ok, I have had my coffee, so you can all come out now!
First, let me repeat a mantra I’ve heard many years ago: “there is no frigging cloud; it’s someone’s else computer”. Second, from the superficial reading of news (I’m traveling now), the recent outage was not an issue with the “cloud” but with an antivirus update that went south. It affected equally physical and virtual machines, so let’s not get all worked up about the big bad “cloud”.
Mircea
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I totally get what you're saying, but some people really can't be trusted with their own data. The ones who don't think there's anything wrong with "password1", that is.
the point here is that they own that. It's their data, and if they lose it, well that's on them. Idiots have pushed so much out to the cloud - some near mission critical and possibly more. Remember, it was microsoft setting up azure servers with databases and the process did not include setting permissions or changing the default password. Have you heard the story about McDonald's not changing the bluetooth passwords on their ordering machines and menus?
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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It was former Swiss law that the principals of a bank were liable, to the full extent of their personal wealth, for making depositors whole if the bank got into trouble. That law needs to return. So does the US Coin Act of 1793, under which the penalty for debauching the currency was death.
Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles
The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing. -
First, let me repeat a mantra I’ve heard many years ago: “there is no frigging cloud; it’s someone’s else computer”. Second, from the superficial reading of news (I’m traveling now), the recent outage was not an issue with the “cloud” but with an antivirus update that went south. It affected equally physical and virtual machines, so let’s not get all worked up about the big bad “cloud”.
Mircea
you are very generous. I hope you aren't on an airplane. "It affected equally physical and virtual machines" Are you serious? Don't get worked up about "the big bad cloud." I don't know much about azure (other than it's just another more modern system of spinning up a virtual server). Can someone tell me if the core Azure server is running Cloudstink? Ponder that.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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you are very generous. I hope you aren't on an airplane. "It affected equally physical and virtual machines" Are you serious? Don't get worked up about "the big bad cloud." I don't know much about azure (other than it's just another more modern system of spinning up a virtual server). Can someone tell me if the core Azure server is running Cloudstink? Ponder that.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
Let me assure you that no plane will fall out of the sky due to this bug. Some may not takeoff because passengers couldn’t check in but I’m not due to fly for a week or so. :-D
Mircea
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Let me assure you that no plane will fall out of the sky due to this bug. Some may not takeoff because passengers couldn’t check in but I’m not due to fly for a week or so. :-D
Mircea
I'm certain they won't fall out of the sky, but here in the United States the FAA was having issues communicating with a/c in the air due to this issue. It boggles my mind. Of course, these days, the level of information from journalists is borderline cow dung but... I would not put it past our federal government to have put something like this in place. I have experience in this area...
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
