Do you trust the "Cloud"?
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It does the soul good to see you guys talk about how crooked banking is. 1,000% agree btw... Fractional reserve lending is the bane of our economies.
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
how crooked banking is. 1,000% agree
I remember a discussion between me and one of my workers over two decades back. When he was looking at his investment returns, and compared with his bank's yearly profits, he went to his bank manager and said "I want to invest in what you're investing in"...
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In view of the catastrophic global IT mess: Do you still trust the cloud? I never have and never will.:mad: Yes, I do save some non critical data there, but is is fully backed up in local storage. I will never get in a position where cloud failures can harm me.
Ok, I have had my coffee, so you can all come out now!
Nope. I have my own darn "cloud" in the form of a 2008 r2 server in the garage with gobs of imaged storage. And I barely trust that! I'm grateful that I can do this for my household in this OneDrive :doh: and whatever that Apple one is world. Two things that poke the Ron bear, backup and the cloud. Now they are synonymous which is a travesty. Normals at happy hour.... "We're on the cloud are yoooo?. Oh and it's got AI! Dilly Dilly!" :thumbsup:
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yeah, did not make myself clear there. Cloudstrike is far more vulnerable. but this going to end up costing both billions. Companies are just not putting up with this stuff. Experian settled out of court A LOT. It's the downside of collecting data in those cases.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
charlieg wrote:
Companies are just not putting up with this stuff
I think they do. No matter how big the disaster, things aren't changing. Why fine the responsible companies when said fine simply gets filed as an operating expense? You wanna get serious about it, threaten jail time for the execs--those who sign off on things--and I think you'll suddenly see the needle move. One can only dream...
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the point here is that they own that. It's their data, and if they lose it, well that's on them. Idiots have pushed so much out to the cloud - some near mission critical and possibly more. Remember, it was microsoft setting up azure servers with databases and the process did not include setting permissions or changing the default password. Have you heard the story about McDonald's not changing the bluetooth passwords on their ordering machines and menus?
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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Yes but it's their data we are not their mothers
In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity. - Hunter S Thompson - RIP
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charlieg wrote:
Companies are just not putting up with this stuff
I think they do. No matter how big the disaster, things aren't changing. Why fine the responsible companies when said fine simply gets filed as an operating expense? You wanna get serious about it, threaten jail time for the execs--those who sign off on things--and I think you'll suddenly see the needle move. One can only dream...
not fine, sue. About 10 years ago, somebody got hacked - Target for sure, but toss in Experion, etc. Home Depot, Lowes and a lot of banks went after them for damages.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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charlieg wrote:
Have you heard the story about McDonald's not changing the bluetooth passwords on their ordering machines and menus?
I can't say that I have, but already it sounds fun...
yeah, teens found about it, mayhem :) There is also the story of a professor doing a security project. We wondered about ATMs. Doing a quick google, he came across the operating manuals of several ATM makers that dominated the market. In the manual was the default maintenance password. Out he went, followed instructions, and he was in maintenance mode for 10 of 10 test atms. Reading further, he redefined the value of each bin of bills to $1. Whereupon he withdrew "$500" dollars - in 20s. He took the 10k into the branch and asked to see the manager.... About 2 days later, you could not find the manual online unless you knew where to look.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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In view of the catastrophic global IT mess: Do you still trust the cloud? I never have and never will.:mad: Yes, I do save some non critical data there, but is is fully backed up in local storage. I will never get in a position where cloud failures can harm me.
Ok, I have had my coffee, so you can all come out now!
I'm not sure how the outage/mess is related to the cloud other than the product name rhymes with cloud. :laugh: That said, I also use 'someone else's servers' in my backup strategy...encrypted of course. I still occasionally get tricked into saving Office files in OneDrive. X| Passing thought regarding the outage...last week there was a discussion about the awesomeness of PowerShell and managing enterprise systems. So why can't they write a script to rollback the update and reboot, then deploy it? :confused: Last thought...I'd hate to be on the QA team(s) that approved that update. Judas Priest - Some Heads Are Gonna Roll (Official Audio) - YouTube[^]
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse "Hope is contagious"
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yeah, teens found about it, mayhem :) There is also the story of a professor doing a security project. We wondered about ATMs. Doing a quick google, he came across the operating manuals of several ATM makers that dominated the market. In the manual was the default maintenance password. Out he went, followed instructions, and he was in maintenance mode for 10 of 10 test atms. Reading further, he redefined the value of each bin of bills to $1. Whereupon he withdrew "$500" dollars - in 20s. He took the 10k into the branch and asked to see the manager.... About 2 days later, you could not find the manual online unless you knew where to look.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
charlieg wrote:
About 2 days later, you could not find the manual online unless you knew where to look.
And probably they thought it was enough done to fix it.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Have heard that solutions to some nonlinear differential equations are extremely sensitive to initial conditions. A small delta in the initial conditions causes a drastic change in response. Never thought that this could happen in code. A small (?) update in a third-party software causes massive outage. The term SOUP (Software of Unknown Provenance) usually used in medical software, now perhaps applies to the suite of Microsoft products.
xkcd: Dependency[^] Nothing else to add.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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yeah, teens found about it, mayhem :) There is also the story of a professor doing a security project. We wondered about ATMs. Doing a quick google, he came across the operating manuals of several ATM makers that dominated the market. In the manual was the default maintenance password. Out he went, followed instructions, and he was in maintenance mode for 10 of 10 test atms. Reading further, he redefined the value of each bin of bills to $1. Whereupon he withdrew "$500" dollars - in 20s. He took the 10k into the branch and asked to see the manager.... About 2 days later, you could not find the manual online unless you knew where to look.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
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charlieg wrote:
Have you heard the story about McDonald's not changing the bluetooth passwords on their ordering machines and menus?
I can't say that I have, but already it sounds fun...
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not fine, sue. About 10 years ago, somebody got hacked - Target for sure, but toss in Experion, etc. Home Depot, Lowes and a lot of banks went after them for damages.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
Right, but my point is, you sue a company, the company ends up paying a fine and moves on. Nothing changes. If you start threatening to put C-level executives in jail, things would start changing overnight. Extreme? Absolutely. But I don't see how things will ever improve otherwise.
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charlieg wrote:
About 2 days later, you could not find the manual online unless you knew where to look.
And probably they thought it was enough done to fix it.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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yeah, teens found about it, mayhem :) There is also the story of a professor doing a security project. We wondered about ATMs. Doing a quick google, he came across the operating manuals of several ATM makers that dominated the market. In the manual was the default maintenance password. Out he went, followed instructions, and he was in maintenance mode for 10 of 10 test atms. Reading further, he redefined the value of each bin of bills to $1. Whereupon he withdrew "$500" dollars - in 20s. He took the 10k into the branch and asked to see the manager.... About 2 days later, you could not find the manual online unless you knew where to look.
Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.
charlieg wrote:
He took the 10k into the branch and asked to see the manager....
...and I'm better he got himself in trouble for pointing out the flaw. Happens all the time. Happened to me when I was a kid in high school (although nothing as high-stake as this)
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In view of the catastrophic global IT mess: Do you still trust the cloud? I never have and never will.:mad: Yes, I do save some non critical data there, but is is fully backed up in local storage. I will never get in a position where cloud failures can harm me.
Ok, I have had my coffee, so you can all come out now!
Of course not. It's just someone else's server.
GCS/GE d--(d) s-/+ a C+++ U+++ P-- L+@ E-- W+++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X The shortest horror story: On Error Resume Next
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Cp-Coder wrote:
In view of the catastrophic global IT mess: Do you still trust the cloud?
I trust the technology, but I don't trust Google, Apple, etc. to not be politically biased or sneaky. So, yes and no. For instance, there have been reports that Apple keeps your photos even after you delete them. Google does the same with Gmail, btw. Tech companies have shown their true colors and it's pretty disgusting if you ask me. As far as the tech side, there's nothing wrong with it. Outages suck, but as long as they don't lose your data it's no big deal. If it's sensitive then encrypt it so a data breach won't matter. People act like an outage is a huge deal, but a house fire could wipe you out too. So, do both if you're really that worried.
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
a house fire could wipe you out
This is why I have two large external SSD's at home. One contains an image backup plus differentials, while the other is a robocopy mirror of my working data. Once a week these get swapped with an identical pair at work. ... and yes, I do take a look at the backups to make sure they're working properly.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
First, let me repeat a mantra I’ve heard many years ago: “there is no frigging cloud; it’s someone’s else computer”. Second, from the superficial reading of news (I’m traveling now), the recent outage was not an issue with the “cloud” but with an antivirus update that went south. It affected equally physical and virtual machines, so let’s not get all worked up about the big bad “cloud”.
Mircea
Mircea Neacsu wrote:
First, let me repeat a mantra I’ve heard many years ago: “there is no frigging cloud; it’s someone’s else computer”.
That quote is completely wrong. The "Cloud" is not someone else's computer -- it's a LOT of someone else's computers, connected together in a patchwork of obviously fragile connections. It's not "a" computer, it's an entire ecosystem that is a lot more than just computers.
Mircea Neacsu wrote:
Second, from the superficial reading of news (I’m traveling now), the recent outage was not an issue with the “cloud” but with an antivirus update that went south. It affected equally physical and virtual machines, so let’s not get all worked up about the big bad “cloud”.
It doesn't matter what caused the outage, only that it happened, and that is was stupidly easy to prevent, e.g., follow good process and actually test things before putting into production. The fact that the source of the outage was a bad patch in a secondary system means we SHOULD be upset, as it demonstrates just how fragile the "Cloud" is.
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In view of the catastrophic global IT mess: Do you still trust the cloud? I never have and never will.:mad: Yes, I do save some non critical data there, but is is fully backed up in local storage. I will never get in a position where cloud failures can harm me.
Ok, I have had my coffee, so you can all come out now!
No. Once you put your data in the cloud, it's no longer yours. All the things you could have done with that data you now have to ask permission and justify your reasons.
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In view of the catastrophic global IT mess: Do you still trust the cloud? I never have and never will.:mad: Yes, I do save some non critical data there, but is is fully backed up in local storage. I will never get in a position where cloud failures can harm me.
Ok, I have had my coffee, so you can all come out now!
Never have. Never will. Why would I trust a technology that's a throw-back from the main frame time-sharing era? Why would I trust a technology that by the very act of copying data elsewhere nullifies your real ownership of said data? Centralized computing has no plan B other than when disaster happens, just pick up the pieces and make the best of it. Centralized computing is not scalable. I often ask myself why no one else is working on a truly distributed solution. Crickets. I simply don't get it.
