If you could run all your apps (games too) on Linux?
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Oh btw, Linux isn't without its problems... especially with some drivers. Anyone saying otherwise is just lying. But, crap runs faster on it I'm convinced. And well, nobody's forcing peeps to give them all their data. So, ya know... there's that. :laugh:
Jeremy Falcon
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No. Why? In one word (or maybe two) - VisualStudio. There is nothing in Linux world that comes close to it; not by a mile; not by many miles. I've tried over the years a few times and all the substitutes were so poor, specially on the debugging side, that I was relieved when I got back to Windows. Another gripe I have with Linux world, this time as a user, not a developer, is the endless list of options where there isn't one that is obviously better. You could use GNOME or KDE or Xface or Cinnamon or (any other of 30+ desktop environments out there). Makes you want to go back to the command line but there are tens of distros, each one with it's own idiosyncrasies and slight incompatibilities. All that makes me use Linux only for small gizmos like the many RPis and BeagleBones I use for work and around the house. General rule is: find a working configuration and don't touch it unless you're forced to.
Mircea
> Mircea Neacsu wrote: > > In one word (or maybe two) - VisualStudio. Close but no cigar. Ditched that clunker the very second I found JetBrains Rider (but our relationship had already been toxic for a decade or so). Now I start Visual Studio only once or twice a year, to build/publish some legacy stuff - after having done all the development in Rider. What keeps me firmly rooted on Windows boxen is LINQPad. There's nothing even remotely comparable in the Linux world, and there probably won't be since JPad unfortunately seems to have died in its infancy. My LINQPad script tree currently comprises 3464 files in 709 directories; it is basically a knowledge dump where each piece of knowledge is packaged as a LINQPad script, opened with a single click and then executed with a single keystroke. This goes from how to call a certain API (one line, or a handful) up to POC implementations with many hundreds of lines and maybe dozens of includes and referenced assemblies or NuGet packages. Basically, I don't start coding tricky stuff in a C# project until I have it working perfectly in LINQPad. Also, I often write LINQPad scripts (read 'C# programs') where I formerly would have done battle with batch files or Power$hell scripts, because it is so much more convenient and so much more powerful. Plus, I get to use a language with palatable/sane syntax (C#), as opposed to all the shell languages that I've ever seen. Also, having programmed the Windows API since Windows 2.18 and the Win32 API since NT 3.51 I tend take certain amenities - e.g. threads, reliable file locking, interprocess synchronisation primitives, clipboard - for granted. That's why my mind really boggles when I find that Linux does not have interprocess mutexes, for example, and that people recommend farting around with disk files instead. That's not really a desktop/UI issue but it keeps me away from Linux and Mac for everyday work, because I cannot make them jump like a can even the newest, sh*ttiest iteration of Windows yet. And there's always the WSL if need arises ...
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
But, crap runs faster on it I'm convinced.
I sitll remember some years ago in burning a CD with Nero in Windows XP around 15 to 20 minutes and that's going fast. Linux burned the same CD in less than 2.5 minutes
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Nelek wrote:
I sitll remember some years ago in burning a CD with Nero in Windows XP around 15 to 20 minutes and that's going fast. Linux burned the same CD in less than 2.5 minutes
Well. To be fair, let's compare apples with apples; burning a CD isn't exactly a task that will overwhelm an OS, even during the XP days. Undoubtedly there's a burn rate selection that was not chosen. Or the burner itself, hooked up to XP, didn't support the higher speed - I remember the introduction of faster drives was a very gradual thing. OTOH, I've burned CDs at (say) 52x. No buffer underrun, no problem reported whatsoever, only for me to realize weeks/months later the disc was rather unreliable. I stick with burning at 4x, no matter what the OS. And better yet, these days I burn as few discs as I can...
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No. Why? In one word (or maybe two) - VisualStudio. There is nothing in Linux world that comes close to it; not by a mile; not by many miles. I've tried over the years a few times and all the substitutes were so poor, specially on the debugging side, that I was relieved when I got back to Windows. Another gripe I have with Linux world, this time as a user, not a developer, is the endless list of options where there isn't one that is obviously better. You could use GNOME or KDE or Xface or Cinnamon or (any other of 30+ desktop environments out there). Makes you want to go back to the command line but there are tens of distros, each one with it's own idiosyncrasies and slight incompatibilities. All that makes me use Linux only for small gizmos like the many RPis and BeagleBones I use for work and around the house. General rule is: find a working configuration and don't touch it unless you're forced to.
Mircea
Mircea Neacsu wrote:
Makes you want to go back to the command line
Bourne? Bash? ksh? zsh? (your point is well made) :-)
Mircea Neacsu wrote:
but there are tens of distros
"Tens"? If only. [DistroWatch](https://distrowatch.com/) maintains a top 100 list, and there's many more.
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Oh, and Windows Update is more a virus than anything else
Once you experience the smooth updates of Linux you will be astonished by the terrible-ness of windows updates. But, that is the trick for windows users — they have no idea that updates could be better, I guess. MS contributes to the cloud of curses that floats over the world (due to their terrible updates).
raddevus wrote:
Once you experience the smooth updates of Linux
Until it's not. I've had a few VMs in the past, and a laptop still to this day, that won't complete the update I've launched from a command prompt, because the background task that drives the GUI version of the updater had already been initiated, and now complains about a file being locked (I forget the name - I'm sure most Linux users have seen it - it's always the same file, in the same folder). If I manually delete the file and / or its container folder and retry, too late, it's already been re-created and locked again. And now both the GUI version and command prompt get stuck because of that locked file that keeps getting recreated as quickly as you can delete it. Or some distro that won't update itself because the ISO you've installed from is now too old, and the only way to get it working again is to manually change whatever repo it's fetching its updates from. And that process is never the same even for two different distros, and your googling results in instructions that don't apply to yours...
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I typically main linux on mothballed desktops, or at least I used to, but now I tend to give them to family. I've gotten pretty familiar with it, and yet still I won't main it for billable work if I don't need to. The reason is simple - it's really easy for something to go sideways with linux (depending on what you're doing, but I do a lot of dev, so it's a frequent issue) and when it does, it takes a lot of fiddling to fix. I can't afford that - or at least, I don't feel good about billing clients for troubleshooting my dev machine, so it's lost money. Sure, with Windows things blow up too, but having even written a (small) part of windows for Microsoft, I'm pretty familiar with the soft underbelly of it, and I can cajole it into at least limping along to do what I need even in the worst case, without having to go down a rabbit hole like I would with linux. So part of it is familiarity. Also there's one distro of windows I use. There are a million distros of linux, each with their own quirks, so knowledge of one doesn't go as far as it does with windows.
Check out my IoT graphics library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx And my IoT UI/User Experience library here: https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix
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If you could run all of your apps & games on Linux… Would you switch to a Linux desktop? Why? Or Why not? I’ll go first. Yes. I would switch. I already switched back in 2019 & I’ve been happy. I couldn’t even run everything I wanted to run (a couple of games and Atmel Studio (embedded IDE which is a variant of VStudio, only runs on windows) Why? Updates are amazing on Linux (rarely do they cause any down time — no sitting & staring at update screen like Windows) I like development on Linux. I like hobbyist “family” of Linux where it is “us against them”. :rolleyes: I also do Android programming and Android Studio runs better on Linux. Linux typically uses a lot less RAM than Windows which is nice.
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I switched my main machine to Linux a few months after the Windows 8.0 release. I do keep a Windows VM for games (that don't work under Linux), Affinity Photo and TurboTax. I'd love to be able to get rid of my Windows VM.
Hi, One suggestion I do have for Linux distro providers is to create a windows interface. Not the code, just the UI. Most of the people I know don't want to learn another interface. They are interested in another OS aside from Windows but have 0 interest in another UI. Windows-like UI's hasn't worked for them. They want a Windows 7 type UI or even a windows 10 UI.
Cegarman document code? If it's not intuitive, you're in the wrong field :D Welcome to my Chaos and Confusion!
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No. Why? In one word (or maybe two) - VisualStudio. There is nothing in Linux world that comes close to it; not by a mile; not by many miles. I've tried over the years a few times and all the substitutes were so poor, specially on the debugging side, that I was relieved when I got back to Windows. Another gripe I have with Linux world, this time as a user, not a developer, is the endless list of options where there isn't one that is obviously better. You could use GNOME or KDE or Xface or Cinnamon or (any other of 30+ desktop environments out there). Makes you want to go back to the command line but there are tens of distros, each one with it's own idiosyncrasies and slight incompatibilities. All that makes me use Linux only for small gizmos like the many RPis and BeagleBones I use for work and around the house. General rule is: find a working configuration and don't touch it unless you're forced to.
Mircea
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
nobody's forcing peeps to give them all their data
This is big part of why I only have Win11 on one VM or two. Otherwise I'd probably have migrated to it within a few days of its original release.
On my Win11 box (23H2) I bypassed the account creation, but... now they're literally nagging me to create one with every thing I do in it. You change a setting... nag. You use the start menu... nag. It doesn't take a genius to figure out if they care that much, then there's a reason.
Jeremy Falcon
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I guess it comes down to what kind of computer work you do. I was a firmware engineer for my whole career and hardly ever used VS. I've actually never used C#.
sasadler wrote:
I've actually never used C#.
Me neither. I've always used C++ :laugh:
Mircea
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raddevus wrote:
Once you experience the smooth updates of Linux
Until it's not. I've had a few VMs in the past, and a laptop still to this day, that won't complete the update I've launched from a command prompt, because the background task that drives the GUI version of the updater had already been initiated, and now complains about a file being locked (I forget the name - I'm sure most Linux users have seen it - it's always the same file, in the same folder). If I manually delete the file and / or its container folder and retry, too late, it's already been re-created and locked again. And now both the GUI version and command prompt get stuck because of that locked file that keeps getting recreated as quickly as you can delete it. Or some distro that won't update itself because the ISO you've installed from is now too old, and the only way to get it working again is to manually change whatever repo it's fetching its updates from. And that process is never the same even for two different distros, and your googling results in instructions that don't apply to yours...
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If you could run all of your apps & games on Linux… Would you switch to a Linux desktop? Why? Or Why not? I’ll go first. Yes. I would switch. I already switched back in 2019 & I’ve been happy. I couldn’t even run everything I wanted to run (a couple of games and Atmel Studio (embedded IDE which is a variant of VStudio, only runs on windows) Why? Updates are amazing on Linux (rarely do they cause any down time — no sitting & staring at update screen like Windows) I like development on Linux. I like hobbyist “family” of Linux where it is “us against them”. :rolleyes: I also do Android programming and Android Studio runs better on Linux. Linux typically uses a lot less RAM than Windows which is nice.
switched so many years ago it isn't even funny. I run linux at home and as much as I am allowed at work. Since I am the IT manager(essentially director) very small shop. I get to use it alot.
To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer
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If you could run all of your apps & games on Linux… Would you switch to a Linux desktop? Why? Or Why not? I’ll go first. Yes. I would switch. I already switched back in 2019 & I’ve been happy. I couldn’t even run everything I wanted to run (a couple of games and Atmel Studio (embedded IDE which is a variant of VStudio, only runs on windows) Why? Updates are amazing on Linux (rarely do they cause any down time — no sitting & staring at update screen like Windows) I like development on Linux. I like hobbyist “family” of Linux where it is “us against them”. :rolleyes: I also do Android programming and Android Studio runs better on Linux. Linux typically uses a lot less RAM than Windows which is nice.
Linux needs a Driver API so 3rd parties can make drivers fast and people can install what they want even if it doesn't follow some Linux ideology. DKMS isn't what I'm talking about. You need an actual API like Apples DriverKit etc. Every OS has this except Linux. It makes mix and match hardware not practical with Linux and it makes someone like me not want to contribute to drivers because it takes to much of my time. And it makes companies not interested in making official drivers as its to hard to maintain.
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If you could run all of your apps & games on Linux… Would you switch to a Linux desktop? Why? Or Why not? I’ll go first. Yes. I would switch. I already switched back in 2019 & I’ve been happy. I couldn’t even run everything I wanted to run (a couple of games and Atmel Studio (embedded IDE which is a variant of VStudio, only runs on windows) Why? Updates are amazing on Linux (rarely do they cause any down time — no sitting & staring at update screen like Windows) I like development on Linux. I like hobbyist “family” of Linux where it is “us against them”. :rolleyes: I also do Android programming and Android Studio runs better on Linux. Linux typically uses a lot less RAM than Windows which is nice.
The last time I tried to use Linux as my main Desktop OS, I tried to create a shortcut on the desktop. Turns out, that's not really a thing in Linux. Then it turns out that "Create Folder" shortcuts whilst saving things weren't ever implemented. After a few things like this, I realized that it wasn't yet ready for being a daily driver, and went back to Windows.
-= Reelix =-
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Yeah I have an NVidia GPU & I have had issues. I had one bad problem I didn’t understand & i ended up doing a complete re-install of Ubuntu (which I later discovered was not necessary). I have hit the pain points using Linux but I had a backup windows laptop if I got into trouble and that kept me going. The switch will not be without pain. I also had all of my data backed up so I didnn’t lose anything on re-install.
I've been running NVIDIA on Linux Mint for about 8 years give or take. People way NVIDIA is a problem, but other than one instance where an upgraded package left me without X-Windows (which was fixed by removing the package manually and installing it again), I've never had an issue. Other than that issue, and some hardware problems where the machine locked up when running GPU intensive workloads (because the heatsink and fan fell of the video card) Linux has been rock solid and never skipped a beat. Complaints: I was not able to get the Samsung mobile phone backup software to work under Linux a few years back - so I had to use Windows for that once when I changed phones. Discord wants a package re-install about once per week. You start it up, it tells links you to an updated .deb file, and you download and install it either by double clicking on it from the Gui, or manually according to your preference. That might be because Firefox is my default browser and it doesn't run remote code. Chrome is available and also works. Otherwise, everything pretty much works. Not only do I not miss Windows at all - I feel sad when I have to use it for work . . .
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No. Why? In one word (or maybe two) - VisualStudio. There is nothing in Linux world that comes close to it; not by a mile; not by many miles. I've tried over the years a few times and all the substitutes were so poor, specially on the debugging side, that I was relieved when I got back to Windows. Another gripe I have with Linux world, this time as a user, not a developer, is the endless list of options where there isn't one that is obviously better. You could use GNOME or KDE or Xface or Cinnamon or (any other of 30+ desktop environments out there). Makes you want to go back to the command line but there are tens of distros, each one with it's own idiosyncrasies and slight incompatibilities. All that makes me use Linux only for small gizmos like the many RPis and BeagleBones I use for work and around the house. General rule is: find a working configuration and don't touch it unless you're forced to.
Mircea
I'm not a professional developer, and I don't know if the Visual Studio version is a poor second cousin for support, but this site suggests it is available for Linux. Download Visual Studio Tools - Install Free for Windows, Mac, Linux[^] Personally though, every time I've cut any code, I've been super happy with the tools that come with Linux - though I get a new user might take a little while to discover them all. I guess it depends on what you do.
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Likewise. I have had one NVIDIA update not install properly in eight years (and in fairness, installing Video drivers in Windows was not a great experience either). I've also had self inflicted pain where I've overridden dependencies and caused later issues, but not recently either. I suspect that is pretty dependent on the distribution you use. I've used Debian, Mint and Ubuntu mainly for the past more than 8 years as a full time daily driver.
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Real men use [QNX](https://blackberry.qnx.com/en)... on a Raspberry Pi... underwater.
Jeremy Falcon
I haven't tried it underwater yet, but Linux does run nicely on the Pi.
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The last time I tried to use Linux as my main Desktop OS, I tried to create a shortcut on the desktop. Turns out, that's not really a thing in Linux. Then it turns out that "Create Folder" shortcuts whilst saving things weren't ever implemented. After a few things like this, I realized that it wasn't yet ready for being a daily driver, and went back to Windows.
-= Reelix =-
Reelix wrote:
I tried to create a shortcut on the desktop
That is actually quite a pain to do. I've written my own apps and then had to create the desktop file & it is a complete pain so you are right about that one. They should make it much easier to do.