Let's Help Dave
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Steve Raw wrote:
Add on the fact that textual communication strips out 80% of all language that would be conveyed in comparison to what a face-to-face interaction provides to its participants, and that's how problems start.
you still have enough ways to show "your intentions" in text if you are an experienced internet user (what I presuppose you are), and you missed all / didn't use any of them. If you want to make jokes, or sarcastic comments... use the textual signs to compensate the missin paraverbal and non verbal information.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Nelek wrote:
you still have enough ways to show "your intentions" in text if you are an experienced internet user (what I presuppose you are), and you missed all / didn't use any of them.
So, because you failed to comprehend the humor, that makes it my fault for not following your guidelines?
Nelek wrote:
If you want to make jokes, or sarcastic comments... use the textual signs to compensate the missin paraverbal and non verbal information.
...And it's my fault that you didn't pick up on the humor? Since when is it my responsibility to provide you with textual signs to compensate for your inability to properly comprehend what is being said?
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Steve Raw wrote:
someone in country "A" will find no humor (or even find offense) in what someone from country "B" finds to be hilarious.
You now made me curious... are you from the U.S.A. as your profile says? Or do you come from somewhere else? (where?)
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Nelek wrote:
You now made me curious... are you from the U.S.A. as your profile says? Or do you come from somewhere else? (where?)
I was born in the U.S.A., but I've also spent around 5 years in Canada, a year in England, and I estimate that I've been to Mexico at least 300 times, but most of those visits were day trips. From my own experience, I can say with confidence that different countries have completely different views on what is seen to be funny. I'm sure if you search Google, you will find information on a worldwide case study that was performed to determine the extent to which this phenomenon exists. I was surprised to see that there's such a significant difference between countries when it comes to what is deemed funny, vs. not funny.
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Nelek wrote:
You now made me curious... are you from the U.S.A. as your profile says? Or do you come from somewhere else? (where?)
I was born in the U.S.A., but I've also spent around 5 years in Canada, a year in England, and I estimate that I've been to Mexico at least 300 times, but most of those visits were day trips. From my own experience, I can say with confidence that different countries have completely different views on what is seen to be funny. I'm sure if you search Google, you will find information on a worldwide case study that was performed to determine the extent to which this phenomenon exists. I was surprised to see that there's such a significant difference between countries when it comes to what is deemed funny, vs. not funny.
Steve Raw wrote:
I was born in the U.S.A., but I've also spent around 5 years in Canada, a year in England, and I estimate that I've been to Mexico at least 300 times, but most of those visits were day trips.
I was born in spain, now living in germany, worked all around europe, short in the Arabs Emirates and around 9 months alltogether (divided in 3,5 actual years) in India, been in Sri Lanka and in Indonesia for around 7 weeks doing a big trip. Have met and lived my end of studies (almost 2 years) with people around the whole world (outside Europe: Finland, Russia, Macedonia, Israel, Taiwan, China, Australia...) and worked for over a year with people from Canada, USA and Mexico in a big project in Germany I would say, yeah! I know that many things in other cultures might be very, very different... i.E. never touch the head of a kid in Indonesia not burping after a good meal when you are invited at someones place (several places) going to fast to the big point of disagreement without 5 to 10 minutes small talk (many places in asia) ... ... not to say about humor... that can already be really different from person to person WITHIN the same country...
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Nelek wrote:
you still have enough ways to show "your intentions" in text if you are an experienced internet user (what I presuppose you are), and you missed all / didn't use any of them.
So, because you failed to comprehend the humor, that makes it my fault for not following your guidelines?
Nelek wrote:
If you want to make jokes, or sarcastic comments... use the textual signs to compensate the missin paraverbal and non verbal information.
...And it's my fault that you didn't pick up on the humor? Since when is it my responsibility to provide you with textual signs to compensate for your inability to properly comprehend what is being said?
Steve Raw wrote:
Since when is it my responsibility to provide you with textual signs to compensate for your inability to properly comprehend what is being said?
Since in written language you are missing 90% of the information (paraverbal and non verbal). It is not my inability to properly comprehend what was being said or what was missing, it was you inability to signalize properly that the goal of the message was a joke. Heck, even native english people took it "wrong". Message receivers can understand the very same message in several different ways, since you are the sender of a message is up to you to clarify the message as good as you can to avoid missunderstandings. Example: At traffic light, light changes and the copilot says: "It changed to green" A simple message that can be understood in several ways, even sitting next to each other having most of the non verbal information.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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David O'Neil wrote:
If you continue in this way, you are going to be viewed as a pompous idiot.
If that's how someone prefers to see me, that's fine. Has anyone ever had a conversation with me? Has anyone met me in person? How much can you know about a person based on a fraction of 400 forum posts that I've posted in an Internet forum? What percentage of my posts convey that I am a pompous idiot? Perhaps less than a dozen. Do a dozen stupid posts negate every other quality post I've made? With such a minuscule amount of information to go on, do you really believe that an informed, rational, and accurate assessment of who I am can be determined by anyone? Of course not. For someone to jump to such conclusions would require a great deal of imagination and baseless assumptions. That level of faulty thinking borders on delusion with a complete absence of critical thinking. I find it to be ironic. That's the purest demonstration of what a pompous idiot truly is. And for me to care about what such a person thinks about me? I care more about what an insect thinks about me than I ever could about someone so profoundly foolish. If it weren't so pathetic, it would be hilarious. Yet for a human being to conjure up such an absurd idea? Well, that's truly sad.
David O'Neil wrote:
First you were pushing us to help Dave, by reviewing his book, and even created a dedicated thread in order to do so.
Yes. In what way does that disprove that I was NOT playing with Dave?
David O'Neil wrote:
Then you say you were playing with him.
That makes perfect sense, I was playing with Dave. You need not point out the obvious.
David O'Neil wrote:
Now you say that you have years of experience in advertising campaigns for 'the biggest companies!'
What evidence can you present that proves my statement to be false?
David O'Neil wrote:
But you didn't recognize his post as the advertisement it seems to be.
I didn't? OK, once again... provide me with inarguable evidence that proves you know what thoughts were going through my mind.
David O'Neil wrote:
And now you are apologizing to Dave in another thread.
Yes, I am indeed an awful and vindictive sociopath. Posting a public apology is certainly
Steve Raw wrote:
If you continue in this way, you are going to be viewed as a pompous idiot. If that's how someone prefers to see me, that's fine...
Responses like that reinforce the conclusion. A "thank you for your input" and then shut up would have been a far better response. Best wishes, David
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++ | Wordle solver
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Steve Raw wrote:
Since when is it my responsibility to provide you with textual signs to compensate for your inability to properly comprehend what is being said?
Since in written language you are missing 90% of the information (paraverbal and non verbal). It is not my inability to properly comprehend what was being said or what was missing, it was you inability to signalize properly that the goal of the message was a joke. Heck, even native english people took it "wrong". Message receivers can understand the very same message in several different ways, since you are the sender of a message is up to you to clarify the message as good as you can to avoid missunderstandings. Example: At traffic light, light changes and the copilot says: "It changed to green" A simple message that can be understood in several ways, even sitting next to each other having most of the non verbal information.
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Nelek wrote:
Since in written language you are missing 90% of the information (paraverbal and non verbal).
Yes, I wish more people knew that. I wish those of us who already do know it would be more mindful when communicating via text. In terms of what you refer to as textual signs, can you explain a little bit more? Is the term "textual sign" an umbrella term for things such as emoticons, abbreviations, and acronyms? There are many cases in which I intentionally omit things like emoticons from messages that I send because my intention is often to convey some ambiguity. If done properly, it can do a lot to enhance the humor of a joke. It's the exact equivalent of how a verbal joke uses perplexity, engagement, and anticipation to greatly enhance the punchline's humor. Emoticons and other symbols can also be detrimental in text-based communication because they can interrupt the flow and disrupt the timing of a joke. Without proper flow and correct timing, a joke will fall flat losing all of its humor.
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Steve Raw wrote:
If you continue in this way, you are going to be viewed as a pompous idiot. If that's how someone prefers to see me, that's fine...
Responses like that reinforce the conclusion. A "thank you for your input" and then shut up would have been a far better response. Best wishes, David
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++ | Wordle solver
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Steve Raw wrote:
If you continue in this way, you are going to be viewed as a pompous idiot. If that's how someone prefers to see me, that's fine...
Responses like that reinforce the conclusion. A "thank you for your input" and then shut up would have been a far better response. Best wishes, David
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++ | Wordle solver
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Steve Raw wrote:
I was born in the U.S.A., but I've also spent around 5 years in Canada, a year in England, and I estimate that I've been to Mexico at least 300 times, but most of those visits were day trips.
I was born in spain, now living in germany, worked all around europe, short in the Arabs Emirates and around 9 months alltogether (divided in 3,5 actual years) in India, been in Sri Lanka and in Indonesia for around 7 weeks doing a big trip. Have met and lived my end of studies (almost 2 years) with people around the whole world (outside Europe: Finland, Russia, Macedonia, Israel, Taiwan, China, Australia...) and worked for over a year with people from Canada, USA and Mexico in a big project in Germany I would say, yeah! I know that many things in other cultures might be very, very different... i.E. never touch the head of a kid in Indonesia not burping after a good meal when you are invited at someones place (several places) going to fast to the big point of disagreement without 5 to 10 minutes small talk (many places in asia) ... ... not to say about humor... that can already be really different from person to person WITHIN the same country...
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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David O'Neil wrote:
conclusion
I'm not so sure that conclusion is the correct term. I'd say it's more of an unfounded assertion.
Sadly, it is certainly a conclusion at this point. Best wishes, David
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++ | Wordle solver
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Sadly, it is certainly a conclusion at this point. Best wishes, David
Our Forgotten Astronomy | Object Oriented Programming with C++ | Wordle solver
I'm certainly disappointed to know that. I guess I'll just have to make the best of it and move on. On the bright side, I sure am glad that I'm not an arrogant moron. That's even worse than being a cocky dolt. I feel so grateful for the fact that I'm not a megalomaniac invalid. It doesn't get any worse than that.
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Nelek wrote:
Since in written language you are missing 90% of the information (paraverbal and non verbal).
Yes, I wish more people knew that. I wish those of us who already do know it would be more mindful when communicating via text. In terms of what you refer to as textual signs, can you explain a little bit more? Is the term "textual sign" an umbrella term for things such as emoticons, abbreviations, and acronyms? There are many cases in which I intentionally omit things like emoticons from messages that I send because my intention is often to convey some ambiguity. If done properly, it can do a lot to enhance the humor of a joke. It's the exact equivalent of how a verbal joke uses perplexity, engagement, and anticipation to greatly enhance the punchline's humor. Emoticons and other symbols can also be detrimental in text-based communication because they can interrupt the flow and disrupt the timing of a joke. Without proper flow and correct timing, a joke will fall flat losing all of its humor.
Steve Raw wrote:
I intentionally omit things like emoticons from messages that I send because my intention is often to convey some ambiguity.
then do not complain if someone understands it in another way as "expected / intended"
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Steve Raw wrote:
I intentionally omit things like emoticons from messages that I send because my intention is often to convey some ambiguity.
then do not complain if someone understands it in another way as "expected / intended"
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
Nelek wrote:
then do not complain if someone understands it in another way as "expected / intended"
No, the English language if loaded with nuances. What would be the purpose or logic that determines why the same exact language in text form should be treated any differently? If language and grammar are so important to you today, go spend the day at the public library. Leave it alone already.
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Nelek wrote:
then do not complain if someone understands it in another way as "expected / intended"
No, the English language if loaded with nuances. What would be the purpose or logic that determines why the same exact language in text form should be treated any differently? If language and grammar are so important to you today, go spend the day at the public library. Leave it alone already.
You are speaking about the language and I am speaking about your "the responsibility is not on me", two different topics.
Steve Raw wrote:
Leave it alone already.
You are right. Have a nice day :)
M.D.V. ;) If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about? Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.