Osama bin laden and the CIA
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There is lots of fuel in Alaska. US is the richest is oil, but not tapped. Probably waiting for the persian gulf to get drained of oil and then tell them - from now on, we are the OPEC. Thomas
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Nothing would justify Tuesday's massacre, but the U.S. certainly acted foolishly in supplying the people believed to be responsible for the WTC attack with billions of dollars in aid and advanced weaponry in the 1980s. According to The Economist and the International Policy Institute on Counter-Terrorism in Israel, the U.S. and Saudi intelligence agencies recruited bin Laden as a leader in a jihad against Soviet occupation of Afghanistan between 1979 and 1989. bin Laden directed fund-raising, recruitment, and training of Muslims from around the world to fight the Soviets. During this time, the U.S. pumped as much as $500 million per year in funds and armaments (such as Stinger anti-aircraft missiles) to the Afghan Muhjahideen, with much of the aid going directly to bin Laden's close associate Gulbuddin Hikmatyar. After the fall of the Soviet's puppet regime, six years of anarchy ensued during which Pakistan, probably acting with U.S. approval, maneuvered a group of radical Islamic students calling themselves Taliban into power. Directly after the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan, much of the terrorism from bin Laden and Hekmatyar was directed towards sectarian conflicts within Islam (Hekmatyar, a Sunni, launched a number of terrorist attacks on Shiite Iran), but bin Laden turned against the U.S. when we entered the Gulf War. The sight of the corrupt leadership of Saudi Arabia inviting infidel westerners onto sacred soil led bin Laden to target his terrorism against the West, and particularly against the U.S.
It always seems to be the same old same old. I think I remember that the west was allied with the IRAQ against IRAN and then it switched. Can't remember why. The consprarcy theory about the CIA and Mafia being involved Pres Kennedy's death seems to stand up, at least in my eyes, although it happened before my time. eternal student Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach him to use the 'net and he won't bother you for weeks.
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Nothing would justify Tuesday's massacre, but the U.S. certainly acted foolishly in supplying the people believed to be responsible for the WTC attack with billions of dollars in aid and advanced weaponry in the 1980s. According to The Economist and the International Policy Institute on Counter-Terrorism in Israel, the U.S. and Saudi intelligence agencies recruited bin Laden as a leader in a jihad against Soviet occupation of Afghanistan between 1979 and 1989. bin Laden directed fund-raising, recruitment, and training of Muslims from around the world to fight the Soviets. During this time, the U.S. pumped as much as $500 million per year in funds and armaments (such as Stinger anti-aircraft missiles) to the Afghan Muhjahideen, with much of the aid going directly to bin Laden's close associate Gulbuddin Hikmatyar. After the fall of the Soviet's puppet regime, six years of anarchy ensued during which Pakistan, probably acting with U.S. approval, maneuvered a group of radical Islamic students calling themselves Taliban into power. Directly after the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan, much of the terrorism from bin Laden and Hekmatyar was directed towards sectarian conflicts within Islam (Hekmatyar, a Sunni, launched a number of terrorist attacks on Shiite Iran), but bin Laden turned against the U.S. when we entered the Gulf War. The sight of the corrupt leadership of Saudi Arabia inviting infidel westerners onto sacred soil led bin Laden to target his terrorism against the West, and particularly against the U.S.
Just to be sure I understand: We help save Afganistan from conquest by the Soviet Union, than we help liberate an Arab country from a power hungry mad man. And *that's* why the guy is mad at us. OK, I got it. :eek: "I never met anyone I didn't like" Will Rogers.
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Just to be sure I understand: We help save Afganistan from conquest by the Soviet Union, than we help liberate an Arab country from a power hungry mad man. And *that's* why the guy is mad at us. OK, I got it. :eek: "I never met anyone I didn't like" Will Rogers.
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The conclusion was that until US policy- (and war-) makers start to understand the 1/3 of the World's population that is Muslim, and starts to be sensitive to their religious beliefs and their need to feel in control of their own sacred land, this terrorism will go on. IMHO, it's time the people in this world, (Jews, Christians, Muslims...) start paying attention to themselves and stop blaming Americans (or anyone else) for there misfortunes. The leaders of many of these Muslim countries live in opulance and are hoarding billions of dollars while "their" citizens are starving, the whole while blaming the "great satan" for everything. Isn't it about time for these people to rise up, stand on there own two feet and become the masters of their own destiny??!! As an American in times like these there is a small part of me that wishes our scientists could develop a cheap abundant fuel to replace oil and we could retreat into our beautiful country and tell the rest of the world to go !@#$ themselves. Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest! However, I honestly think that one of the things that seperates most Americans from MANY others is that we would rather die fighting for liberty than live like sheep.
Thank you. If we had not defended Kuwait and the Saudi's, then some other fundamentalist would have found some other reason to be blowing us up. I don't beleive any of this media fed crap. The reason they are attacking us is because they can. Nothing more subtle about it than that. "I never met anyone I didn't like" Will Rogers.
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What? Were you expecting logic or something? Craig Dodge A catchy signature should appear here.
I wonder how mad he would get if we bitch slapped his mama? "I never met anyone I didn't like" Will Rogers.
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Just to be sure I understand: We help save Afganistan from conquest by the Soviet Union, than we help liberate an Arab country from a power hungry mad man. And *that's* why the guy is mad at us. OK, I got it. :eek: "I never met anyone I didn't like" Will Rogers.
Just to be sure I understand: We help save Afganistan from conquest by the Soviet Union, than we help liberate an Arab country from a power hungry mad man. And *that's* why the guy is mad at us. OK, I got it. You've got to hand it to the CIA. They sure know how to pick their friends. The faulty syllogism is:
- Soviet Union is evil (no argument from me)
- People who oppose the Soviet Union are therefore opposing evil
- Good opposes evil
- Therefore, anyone who opposes the Soviets (e.g., bin Laden) is good
That kind of reasoning is why I oppose so strongly the current push in the U.S. to free the CIA to make deals with the next bin Laden in order to kill this bin Laden. There is one piece of the picture that you miss. "We help save Afghanistan from conquest by the Soviet Union" It is true that we helped the Afghans drive out the Soviets, but we didn't exactly save them. Instead, we helped Afghanistan be conquered by the Taliban instead of the Soviet Union. For Afghan women, that is like jumping out of the pot into the fire. The Soviets certainly did many evil things, but they never got to the point of saying that it was just plain illegal for women to go to the doctor, as the Taliban has. You may want to look at the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan to see just how bad the Taliban is.
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They just had a documentary on the whole thing on TV here. Brief synopsis. This is based on TV and faulty memory. TV. My faulty memory. In other words, it may be total fiction.
Ben Ladin is child #17 of 52. He went to Afghanistan in search of a purpose for his life and spent a great deal of money building businesses in the country, and associated government ties. His involvement with the fighting due to the Russian invasion is confused. Muslims say he was a leader among soldiers. The CIA say he was merely someone who rasied funds and directed them in the right direction. They knew of him, but didn't think he was particularly pro or anti US. So then he goes back to Saudi Arabia and the whole Gulf War thing happened. He was strenuously against US troops landing on sacred soil, but to no avail. One point that was made was the anger and frustration at US troops coming to fight a war that for them was based solely on protecting their (the US's) resources, and did not take into account the sensitivites of the Muslim people in the area. So the US kicked some butt, but then stayed. It was bad enough having them barge in take it onto themselves to fight a war that many saw as protecting a corrupt government, but then to stay on like a guest whom you wish would move on really started to grate. Bin Laden urged geurilla warfare to remove the US troops, but was ignored. Soon enough there were terrorist attacks on US troops, and the guys responsible claimed they were influenced by Bin Laden's words. The attacks then grew in magnitude (the US embassy bombing and the WTC bombing). Bin Laden was in Afghanstan training Jihad extremists, so the US fired 70 cruise missiles. 13 of these hit a chemical factory in the Sudan (a country which the US had diplomatic ties with, and which had not been warned) which the US claimed was making chemical weapons. Subsequent tests on the soil at the factory showed no proof of chemical weapons, and statements by the US about the nature of the factory were watered down considerably. So now Bin Laden is kinda annoyed. The US barged in to deal with a situation (Kuwait) that wasn't as cut and dried as it seemed, and without full support of the Muslim people. Then they stayed and didn't take the hint to leave, and then when provoked (extremely provoked, mind you) they responded with hostile fire on Muslim countries. There was no effect on Bin Laden, but the Muslim people were a little pissed off themselves. Bin Laden subsequently issued a religious commandment saying
13 of these [cruise missiles] hit a chemical factory in the Sudan (a country which the US had diplomatic ties with, and which had not been warned) which the US claimed was making chemical weapons. Subsequent tests on the soil at the factory showed no proof of chemical weapons, and statements by the US about the nature of the factory were watered down considerably. According to a report published in The Nonproliferation Review, the CIA determined that the pharmaceutical plant in question was not legitemate solely via an internet search:
U.S. officials explained that intelligence officers searched commercial databases and Sudanese internet sites, including Shifa’s, for information. Because they did not find any list of medicines for sale by the plant, they mistakenly concluded that it did not produce pharmaceuticals. U.S. officials have also admitted to uncertainty as to whether their own evidence indicated that precursor chemicals were produced at Shifa, or only stored or shipped through the plant. And Clinton administration officials eventually acknowledged that the factory did produce pharmaceuticals.
I guess having an internet presence for your business is more important than I had thought!
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The conclusion was that until US policy- (and war-) makers start to understand the 1/3 of the World's population that is Muslim, and starts to be sensitive to their religious beliefs and their need to feel in control of their own sacred land, this terrorism will go on. IMHO, it's time the people in this world, (Jews, Christians, Muslims...) start paying attention to themselves and stop blaming Americans (or anyone else) for there misfortunes. The leaders of many of these Muslim countries live in opulance and are hoarding billions of dollars while "their" citizens are starving, the whole while blaming the "great satan" for everything. Isn't it about time for these people to rise up, stand on there own two feet and become the masters of their own destiny??!! As an American in times like these there is a small part of me that wishes our scientists could develop a cheap abundant fuel to replace oil and we could retreat into our beautiful country and tell the rest of the world to go !@#$ themselves. Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest! However, I honestly think that one of the things that seperates most Americans from MANY others is that we would rather die fighting for liberty than live like sheep.
So that is why I am neck deep in debt and have to work to make a living, the great satan is to blame. I just knew I couldn't be at fault. Michael Martin Pegasystems Pty Ltd Australia martm@pegasystems.com +61 413-004-018 "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace" - Victor Stone
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I wonder how mad he would get if we bitch slapped his mama? "I never met anyone I didn't like" Will Rogers.
That would probably be OK, women are possesions and men smack them silly all the time. Though you would probably need to grow a beard and wear a turban. Michael Martin Pegasystems Pty Ltd Australia martm@pegasystems.com +61 413-004-018 "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace" - Victor Stone
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The conclusion was that until US policy- (and war-) makers start to understand the 1/3 of the World's population that is Muslim, and starts to be sensitive to their religious beliefs and their need to feel in control of their own sacred land, this terrorism will go on. IMHO, it's time the people in this world, (Jews, Christians, Muslims...) start paying attention to themselves and stop blaming Americans (or anyone else) for there misfortunes. The leaders of many of these Muslim countries live in opulance and are hoarding billions of dollars while "their" citizens are starving, the whole while blaming the "great satan" for everything. Isn't it about time for these people to rise up, stand on there own two feet and become the masters of their own destiny??!! As an American in times like these there is a small part of me that wishes our scientists could develop a cheap abundant fuel to replace oil and we could retreat into our beautiful country and tell the rest of the world to go !@#$ themselves. Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest! However, I honestly think that one of the things that seperates most Americans from MANY others is that we would rather die fighting for liberty than live like sheep.
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There is lots of fuel in Alaska. US is the richest is oil, but not tapped. Probably waiting for the persian gulf to get drained of oil and then tell them - from now on, we are the OPEC. Thomas
Really? Do you have any facts on this?
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That would probably be OK, women are possesions and men smack them silly all the time. Though you would probably need to grow a beard and wear a turban. Michael Martin Pegasystems Pty Ltd Australia martm@pegasystems.com +61 413-004-018 "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace" - Victor Stone
Now, Michael, we have just had any number of lectures about what a really gentle, nice, fun loving bunch of guys the Muslims are. They would certainly not go around brutalizing women. I'm sure Mr. Ladin would be very upset if anyone were to physically assault his beloved mother. My point was only that if someone did, at least that would be a logical reason to get angry enough to murder 5000+ people. "I never met anyone I didn't like" Will Rogers.