They may have made a profit, too!
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You won't believe this... According to a story in the BBC (click here), it is suspected that associates of bin Laden sold short on stocks of airlines, aramaments industries and reinsurance companies in the weeks leading up to the attacks on NY and DC. Germany, Japan, the UK and the American SEC are all investigating stock transactions in their countries. Dave R
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Can you hold a short position for a few weeks as an individual? I thought you usually settle transactions within 5 days or less depending on the market. By that time you would have to show that you had some shares to sell. Giles
Can you hold a short position for a few weeks as an individual? Apparently - I'm no financier, but according to the story it may have been set up years in advance (if it did in fact happen). It would fit - and how ironic, to use the very institutions they planned to attack. Adding insult to injury, that. Dave R
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You won't believe this... According to a story in the BBC (click here), it is suspected that associates of bin Laden sold short on stocks of airlines, aramaments industries and reinsurance companies in the weeks leading up to the attacks on NY and DC. Germany, Japan, the UK and the American SEC are all investigating stock transactions in their countries. Dave R
Perfect. Although I'm sure it's hidden behind an almost unbelievably complicated series of shell companies and facades, it will result in an absolutely traceable trail. The governments that historically allowed this activity to be hidden will have a hell of a hard time not giving these people up, and without question the countries backing the upcoming UN action will exert whatever pressure is necessary to make this happen. How about if Switzerland doesn't cooperate, the US and other countries seize all Swiss company assets, and prevent all wire transfers to and from that country until they cooperate. (I use the Swiss for illustration, I totally expect the Swiss to want to root these guys out.) David
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Perfect. Although I'm sure it's hidden behind an almost unbelievably complicated series of shell companies and facades, it will result in an absolutely traceable trail. The governments that historically allowed this activity to be hidden will have a hell of a hard time not giving these people up, and without question the countries backing the upcoming UN action will exert whatever pressure is necessary to make this happen. How about if Switzerland doesn't cooperate, the US and other countries seize all Swiss company assets, and prevent all wire transfers to and from that country until they cooperate. (I use the Swiss for illustration, I totally expect the Swiss to want to root these guys out.) David
How about if Switzerland doesn't cooperate... And don't forget about the possiblity of boycotting their chocolates. Personally, I'd be more than happy to see Milka blocked all around the world ;P Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
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Can you hold a short position for a few weeks as an individual? I thought you usually settle transactions within 5 days or less depending on the market. By that time you would have to show that you had some shares to sell. Giles
In US markets, you have to borrow stocks to short. Brokerages and clearing firms have facilities by which they provide this. All the trader has to do is to maintain a certain percentage of the value (approx. 30%) in his account. So, if you want to keep a short position, you can open a 'margin account' with any brokerage and short any 'legally shortable' stock upto your buying power (margin x money in account). To maintain that in your account you will need to meet a 'minimum maintenance requirement' (30% for short and 25% for long positions in the case of most firms). I hope this clarifies the issue. You can hold a short position for any period of time, provided you meet the maintenance requirements. - Thomas
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In US markets, you have to borrow stocks to short. Brokerages and clearing firms have facilities by which they provide this. All the trader has to do is to maintain a certain percentage of the value (approx. 30%) in his account. So, if you want to keep a short position, you can open a 'margin account' with any brokerage and short any 'legally shortable' stock upto your buying power (margin x money in account). To maintain that in your account you will need to meet a 'minimum maintenance requirement' (30% for short and 25% for long positions in the case of most firms). I hope this clarifies the issue. You can hold a short position for any period of time, provided you meet the maintenance requirements. - Thomas
You can also buy an option called a put that gives you the right (but not the obligation) to sell a certain number of shares for a given price at some future date. The person who sells you the put is buying long and has the obligation to buy the stock at that price should you exercise the put. Options are traded openly on many exchanges, such as the Chicago Board Options Exchange. Figuring out how to price options such as these is what won Myron Scholes and Robert Merton the 1997 Nobel Prize in economics.
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How about if Switzerland doesn't cooperate... And don't forget about the possiblity of boycotting their chocolates. Personally, I'd be more than happy to see Milka blocked all around the world ;P Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
Isn't Swiss law set so that Bank Accounts and financial details setup prior to a certain date are untouchable and everything after that date are available to the appropriate authorities? Michael Martin Pegasystems Pty Ltd Australia martm@pegasystems.com +61 413-004-018 "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace" - Victor Stone
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Isn't Swiss law set so that Bank Accounts and financial details setup prior to a certain date are untouchable and everything after that date are available to the appropriate authorities? Michael Martin Pegasystems Pty Ltd Australia martm@pegasystems.com +61 413-004-018 "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace" - Victor Stone
My understanding was that hiding money was ok (tax evasion, etc.) but that criminal activity was no-go. In a criminal investigation they'd give you up. David
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How about if Switzerland doesn't cooperate... And don't forget about the possiblity of boycotting their chocolates. Personally, I'd be more than happy to see Milka blocked all around the world ;P Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
Not to mention the possibility of a world embargo on Cuckoo Clocks...;P Andy Metcalfe - Sonardyne International Ltd
(andy.metcalfe@lineone.net)
http://www.resorg.co.uk"Be yourself, not what others want you to be."
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You can also buy an option called a put that gives you the right (but not the obligation) to sell a certain number of shares for a given price at some future date. The person who sells you the put is buying long and has the obligation to buy the stock at that price should you exercise the put. Options are traded openly on many exchanges, such as the Chicago Board Options Exchange. Figuring out how to price options such as these is what won Myron Scholes and Robert Merton the 1997 Nobel Prize in economics.
You can also buy "future" stocks, where you predict the price of the stocks, say 3 months in advance, buy them at your predicted price, and the in 3 months time your brokerage will either give you the difference in your prediction to what the price really is, or you pay the brokerage the diff. This is what they are saying bin laden might have done. Put it this way, if I were him, I would have done the same ;) (2b || !2b)