looking for wisdom
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Usually I post comments in here that either "I" find humorous or is intended to humor others - a very hard thing to accomplish, let me tell you. Anywho, I am facing a decision that I simply don't have enough information to make wisely. I have worked as an independent programmer for some time now. Work comes exclusively from word of mouth and and I do okay - averaging $75-125 and hour depending on two things: 1. if I like YOU (or your company) and 2: if I like YOU (or your company). I am seriously considering taking a job (permanent as a job get) with a company, the pay is only $120k a year but with the benifits offered it would save me almost the same amount a year. What I would like to know, outside of my own circumstances, is what do programmers make. I actually took the time to look this up at my local library and left coughing and choking at the ridiculous values they had. In short, I'm looking to find the actual average of programmers and the benifits they get at that rate. I realize that this might be hard to answer due to the nature of revealing personal information, with that said, please offer what you can. -m --------------------------------------------- huh? If they don't get the basic research and learning skills down then they'll end up having a very hard life (Either that or they'll become managers) - Micheal P Butler
I charge out at similar rates US to you, however I haven't had much work for a while. :-( The $120k comparrison is difficult to make, only in the financial services industry have I seen any programmers making that sort of money. And they were productive. If you are in a position to negotiate your salary calculate how much you will earn pa for the company and take it from there. Anybody who thinks industry standards for salary are a factor have been sold short. As a rule I think 7% of what you can earn or and save for a company pa is reasonable for a salary. But I do know good programmers here who work for less than 20k US pa, and I guess it's partly their fault since they have no personality and can't negotiate well. Regardz Colin J Davies
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**The minion's version of "Catch :bob: "It's a real shame that people as stupid as you can work out how to use a computer. said by Christian Graus in the Soapbox
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Usually I post comments in here that either "I" find humorous or is intended to humor others - a very hard thing to accomplish, let me tell you. Anywho, I am facing a decision that I simply don't have enough information to make wisely. I have worked as an independent programmer for some time now. Work comes exclusively from word of mouth and and I do okay - averaging $75-125 and hour depending on two things: 1. if I like YOU (or your company) and 2: if I like YOU (or your company). I am seriously considering taking a job (permanent as a job get) with a company, the pay is only $120k a year but with the benifits offered it would save me almost the same amount a year. What I would like to know, outside of my own circumstances, is what do programmers make. I actually took the time to look this up at my local library and left coughing and choking at the ridiculous values they had. In short, I'm looking to find the actual average of programmers and the benifits they get at that rate. I realize that this might be hard to answer due to the nature of revealing personal information, with that said, please offer what you can. -m --------------------------------------------- huh? If they don't get the basic research and learning skills down then they'll end up having a very hard life (Either that or they'll become managers) - Micheal P Butler
$120K a year is very much bubble time I am afraid. Ever thought about management instead of software development ? Certainly key personnels may do this even nowadays with a full-time position, but we are talking exceptional developers.
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I was referring to the message board in your profile (ex: my profile contains a message board[^]), but it looks like you don't have one: http://www.codeproject.com/script/profile/whos_who.asp?id=51314[^] :confused: Anyway, if you ask in the Soap Box, people will be able to respond anonymously.
Jon Sagara
A bottle a night isn't alcoholism - it's persistence! -- A coworker, jokinglyJon Sagara wrote: but it looks like you don't have one :confused: Only Silver members and higher have messageboards :) Paul ;)
Garfield.Bark(); **---Configuration: garfield - Win32 Deworm---** C:\garfield.cpp(9) : error C2039: 'Bark' : is not a member of 'CCat' -
Usually I post comments in here that either "I" find humorous or is intended to humor others - a very hard thing to accomplish, let me tell you. Anywho, I am facing a decision that I simply don't have enough information to make wisely. I have worked as an independent programmer for some time now. Work comes exclusively from word of mouth and and I do okay - averaging $75-125 and hour depending on two things: 1. if I like YOU (or your company) and 2: if I like YOU (or your company). I am seriously considering taking a job (permanent as a job get) with a company, the pay is only $120k a year but with the benifits offered it would save me almost the same amount a year. What I would like to know, outside of my own circumstances, is what do programmers make. I actually took the time to look this up at my local library and left coughing and choking at the ridiculous values they had. In short, I'm looking to find the actual average of programmers and the benifits they get at that rate. I realize that this might be hard to answer due to the nature of revealing personal information, with that said, please offer what you can. -m --------------------------------------------- huh? If they don't get the basic research and learning skills down then they'll end up having a very hard life (Either that or they'll become managers) - Micheal P Butler
I don't know what salaries are like where you are, but your charging rates are about the same as our company charges for development work. Elaine :rose: The tigress is here :-D
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Usually I post comments in here that either "I" find humorous or is intended to humor others - a very hard thing to accomplish, let me tell you. Anywho, I am facing a decision that I simply don't have enough information to make wisely. I have worked as an independent programmer for some time now. Work comes exclusively from word of mouth and and I do okay - averaging $75-125 and hour depending on two things: 1. if I like YOU (or your company) and 2: if I like YOU (or your company). I am seriously considering taking a job (permanent as a job get) with a company, the pay is only $120k a year but with the benifits offered it would save me almost the same amount a year. What I would like to know, outside of my own circumstances, is what do programmers make. I actually took the time to look this up at my local library and left coughing and choking at the ridiculous values they had. In short, I'm looking to find the actual average of programmers and the benifits they get at that rate. I realize that this might be hard to answer due to the nature of revealing personal information, with that said, please offer what you can. -m --------------------------------------------- huh? If they don't get the basic research and learning skills down then they'll end up having a very hard life (Either that or they'll become managers) - Micheal P Butler
Mel Feik wrote: the pay is only $120k a year but with the benifits offered i Take the job: Brazil's president makes $30k a year plus benefits. :-D
// Quantum sort algorithm implementation
while (!sorted)
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Usually I post comments in here that either "I" find humorous or is intended to humor others - a very hard thing to accomplish, let me tell you. Anywho, I am facing a decision that I simply don't have enough information to make wisely. I have worked as an independent programmer for some time now. Work comes exclusively from word of mouth and and I do okay - averaging $75-125 and hour depending on two things: 1. if I like YOU (or your company) and 2: if I like YOU (or your company). I am seriously considering taking a job (permanent as a job get) with a company, the pay is only $120k a year but with the benifits offered it would save me almost the same amount a year. What I would like to know, outside of my own circumstances, is what do programmers make. I actually took the time to look this up at my local library and left coughing and choking at the ridiculous values they had. In short, I'm looking to find the actual average of programmers and the benifits they get at that rate. I realize that this might be hard to answer due to the nature of revealing personal information, with that said, please offer what you can. -m --------------------------------------------- huh? If they don't get the basic research and learning skills down then they'll end up having a very hard life (Either that or they'll become managers) - Micheal P Butler
First location means a lot as to if the salary is good or not. Around me it would be fantastic but, our cost of living is pretty cheap also. To get over $100K you would have to be proven and have 15+ years of experience in the specific area of need. $120K would only exist in a management role. You are right in considering the benefits. Probably more time off and not as many hours in the week. What does the medical plan cover? How good is the pension plan if they have it. Mine is a bigger factor than I had realized in my younger days. Now for the negative. In any company part of a permanent job is politics vs salesmanship for the independent. Are you ready to handle it? With the higher paying positions goes more political posturing also. Lastly how stable are they. You really have to be honest here. Is it a broad market item or a niche that could evaporate. An area with little competition today and that could change if someone else came along. Many people we have hired have come from small firms that could not weather a few bad years and went under. "For as long as I can remember, I have had memories. Colin Mochrie."
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Usually I post comments in here that either "I" find humorous or is intended to humor others - a very hard thing to accomplish, let me tell you. Anywho, I am facing a decision that I simply don't have enough information to make wisely. I have worked as an independent programmer for some time now. Work comes exclusively from word of mouth and and I do okay - averaging $75-125 and hour depending on two things: 1. if I like YOU (or your company) and 2: if I like YOU (or your company). I am seriously considering taking a job (permanent as a job get) with a company, the pay is only $120k a year but with the benifits offered it would save me almost the same amount a year. What I would like to know, outside of my own circumstances, is what do programmers make. I actually took the time to look this up at my local library and left coughing and choking at the ridiculous values they had. In short, I'm looking to find the actual average of programmers and the benifits they get at that rate. I realize that this might be hard to answer due to the nature of revealing personal information, with that said, please offer what you can. -m --------------------------------------------- huh? If they don't get the basic research and learning skills down then they'll end up having a very hard life (Either that or they'll become managers) - Micheal P Butler
much less (after quasi-obligatory health care and retirement "plan"), and I don't consider it ridiculous. I know I could get about $60k somewhere else, and there *are* jobs >$100k even here without going further west, but what for? I pay $400/month for the apartment, have a 10-min-by-bike commute and only a cat to feed. If you compare the money, consider: how much time do you spend now on getting new jobs? Freelancers I know talk about 30% and above - which is hefty. If you aren't short of money, rather include other factors - do you like the freelancing, or do you grow anxious of the insecurity, etc.
"Der Geist des Kriegers ist erwacht / Ich hab die Macht" StS
sighist | Agile Programming | doxygen -
Mel Feik wrote: the pay is only $120k a year but with the benifits offered i Take the job: Brazil's president makes $30k a year plus benefits. :-D
// Quantum sort algorithm implementation
while (!sorted)
;Cool, I earn more than a president. :cool: -- Serial killers don't kill their boyfriends.
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Cool, I earn more than a president. :cool: -- Serial killers don't kill their boyfriends.
Woo hoo, me to! :cool: But I bet he has lower outgoings so gets to keep more overall. I wonder if the president needs to pay for his own food, rent, clothing, etc? :~
David Wulff
I’m right there beside you; if only you could see; smiling so you can’t see my tears.
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Woo hoo, me to! :cool: But I bet he has lower outgoings so gets to keep more overall. I wonder if the president needs to pay for his own food, rent, clothing, etc? :~
David Wulff
I’m right there beside you; if only you could see; smiling so you can’t see my tears.
Probably not! *mutter* -- Serial killers don't kill their boyfriends.
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Probably not! *mutter* -- Serial killers don't kill their boyfriends.
Never mind, your girlfriend doesn't need to know that. ;)
David Wulff
I’m right there beside you; if only you could see; smiling so you can’t see my tears.
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You cannot make anonymous posts in the Lounge, while you can in the Soapbox. This is just a CP "rule", not normal "internet stuff". :) To answer your question, though I don't know how salaries in India would be relevant for you... When I graduated out of college, I started at a salary of 30k/month == 360k/yr. When I left the job to work on my own after three years, I was making 540k/yr. All in Indian Rupees, of course.
Regards,Rohit Sinha
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person.
- Mother TeresaRohit Sinha wrote: When I graduated out of college, I started at a salary of 30k/month == 360k/yr. When I left the job to work on my own after three years, I was making 540k/yr. And you say you want to become 'rich' ! :omg: No offense meant- just wanted to rib you. Vikram.
The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offence.- Dijkstra KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
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The Lounge is for PG-13, non-programming related discussion. It's basically a hang-out spot for developers looking for a break. You must be logged in to post a message in the Lounge. The Soap Box is an anything-goes forum. If you can think of it, you can post it. Anonymous posts are allowed in there (unless something has changed recently). That way people can post about their salaries. Some people might not want to say how much/little they make out in the open.
Jon Sagara
A bottle a night isn't alcoholism - it's persistence! -- A coworker, jokinglyJon Sagara wrote: You must be logged in to post a message in the Lounge. So how come I'm able to do this? ;P Vikram.
The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offence.- Dijkstra KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
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Jon Sagara wrote: You must be logged in to post a message in the Lounge. So how come I'm able to do this? ;P Vikram.
The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offence.- Dijkstra KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
Well tou-fucking-ché! ;P :-D
Jon Sagara
A bottle a night isn't alcoholism - it's persistence! -- A coworker, jokingly -
Rohit Sinha wrote: When I graduated out of college, I started at a salary of 30k/month == 360k/yr. When I left the job to work on my own after three years, I was making 540k/yr. And you say you want to become 'rich' ! :omg: No offense meant- just wanted to rib you. Vikram.
The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offence.- Dijkstra KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
Hey, that's in Rupees!
Regards,Rohit Sinha
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person.
- Mother Teresa -
Well tou-fucking-ché! ;P :-D
Jon Sagara
A bottle a night isn't alcoholism - it's persistence! -- A coworker, jokinglyI suppose you've found wisdom now. ;P I can understand the 'Well' and the 'f***ing' but what are 'tou' and 'che' ? :confused: Vikram.
The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offence.- Dijkstra KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
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Hey, that's in Rupees!
Regards,Rohit Sinha
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person.
- Mother TeresaRohit Sinha wrote: that's in Rupees! I know that. ;P Still, 30K/month is cool for a beginner. But my experience is largely limited to colleges in TN, not IITs. BTW, I'd like some advice from you reg the IITs, but I'll ask tomorrow later today. I've got college in 8 hours. If only they'd declared Mon a holiday, we'd have 5 days leave. :( Vikram.
The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offence.- Dijkstra KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
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Rohit Sinha wrote: that's in Rupees! I know that. ;P Still, 30K/month is cool for a beginner. But my experience is largely limited to colleges in TN, not IITs. BTW, I'd like some advice from you reg the IITs, but I'll ask tomorrow later today. I've got college in 8 hours. If only they'd declared Mon a holiday, we'd have 5 days leave. :( Vikram.
The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offence.- Dijkstra KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
Sure. And now go get some sleep, will you? ;P
Regards,Rohit Sinha
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person.
- Mother Teresa -
I suppose you've found wisdom now. ;P I can understand the 'Well' and the 'f***ing' but what are 'tou' and 'che' ? :confused: Vikram.
The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offence.- Dijkstra KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
Touché - a fencing term, I believe. It's used when a point is scored, and I presume it means 'touch' in English.
"Welcome to Arizona!
Drive Nice - We're Armed..."
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I suppose you've found wisdom now. ;P I can understand the 'Well' and the 'f***ing' but what are 'tou' and 'che' ? :confused: Vikram.
The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offence.- Dijkstra KI klike KDE kand kuse kit, kbut KI kmust kadmit, kstarting kall knames kwith K kis ksilly. KI khope kthey kwill kgive kup kthis kwhole kscheme ksoon kand kcome kup kwith kreal knames. pI vThink aHungarian nNotation vIs iA aWonderful nThing cAnd pEveryone avShould vUse pIt aAll dThe nTime, adNo nMatter pWhat dThe nContext, adEven adWhen vSpeaking.
Dictionary.com[^] says: tou·ché ( P ) interj. Used to acknowledge a hit in fencing or a successful criticism or an effective point in argument. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [French, from past participle of toucher, to hit or wound in fencing, from Old French touchier, to touch. See touch.]
Regards,Rohit Sinha
Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person.
- Mother Teresa