Ashamed to be Canadian
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Our Prime minister, Jean Chretian, is a moron. He thought it was more important to be at a political fund raising dinner in Toronto, then to take a 90 minute flight be in Washington for US President Bush's message last night or to go to New York to show the Americans that all Canadians sympathize, support and stand by our American friends. It's no wonder that Canada, the US's largest trading partner, and in my opinion, it's closest friend, was not even mentioned in Bush's speech last night. On behalf of all Canadians, I apologize to our American friends for this moron's actions. A not so proud canadian. --- Better to be silent and thought the fool, than to open your mouth and prove it!
I don't mean to offend anyone but seriously we should drop loans to other countries and charge some damn good interest. We have help everybody in some form of war or finacial crisis and what do we get? 99.9% of the world hates our guts. Finally Britian (Whatever they are officially called) has sent warships to the Arabian Sea, I say its about time! We bailed them out of WW1 and 2 they could at least help. And we even armed Afganistan (Stupid Move) and know they are using it against it us! *Disclaimer* This message was typed in a moment of rage and should not be taken offensively unless you are personnally responsible for being a/an ________________ to the U.S.. -Matt Newman :suss:
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Ok - "Sometimes a banana is just a banana". I guess you're right - but when a site claims it is an 'actual transcript' released by the 'Chief of Naval Operations' I'd say it crosses the line between urban legend and outright lie. Right then. For my penance, I will now go and read the entire archive of east coast Canadian lighthouse radio transcripts whilst smearing my body with Vegemite and rancid bacon fat and nibbling on raw whitchetty grubs (slowly) with 'Stranger on the Shore' speeded up from 33 to 45 playing loudly in the background. Geez - now I'm starting to wonder about the whole "Good luck Mr. Gorsky" thing... :confused:
Just like official virus alert from IBM. Ever notice that it is the exact same guy from IBM that "sends" them out and the only difference in text is his discription of the virus? -Matt Newman :suss:
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I don't mean to offend anyone but seriously we should drop loans to other countries and charge some damn good interest. We have help everybody in some form of war or finacial crisis and what do we get? 99.9% of the world hates our guts. Finally Britian (Whatever they are officially called) has sent warships to the Arabian Sea, I say its about time! We bailed them out of WW1 and 2 they could at least help. And we even armed Afganistan (Stupid Move) and know they are using it against it us! *Disclaimer* This message was typed in a moment of rage and should not be taken offensively unless you are personnally responsible for being a/an ________________ to the U.S.. -Matt Newman :suss:
Matt, I understand your feelings, but you have to understand, as your government obviously does, that 300 million people have to be careful about how they dictate world politics to more than 6 Billion. I was running the math through my head earlier today and said, wow, $30 Billion a year in humanitarian aid (and the US Defense department's budget is $ 850B/yr) would double the annual income of all of the 1 Billion people in the middle east. Think about it. How happy would you be to have your salary doubled? I'm not in any possible way trying to justify what happened on Sept 11, but you have to appreciate the stakes if you're going to appreciate the situation. David
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Matt, I understand your feelings, but you have to understand, as your government obviously does, that 300 million people have to be careful about how they dictate world politics to more than 6 Billion. I was running the math through my head earlier today and said, wow, $30 Billion a year in humanitarian aid (and the US Defense department's budget is $ 850B/yr) would double the annual income of all of the 1 Billion people in the middle east. Think about it. How happy would you be to have your salary doubled? I'm not in any possible way trying to justify what happened on Sept 11, but you have to appreciate the stakes if you're going to appreciate the situation. David
David, I have not checked lately but I do not believe that our defense spending is even half the figure you cite. The last time I paid any attention to it (circa 1992) is was about 350 billion. Our department of health and human services (which also manages social security) is at about a trillion dollars and is *by far* the largest department in our budget. The truth is that most of the world could live in weatlh and prosperity if those who could would simply adopt our economic model (Instead of us trying to adopt the other model of high taxation and inane government programs). The Islamic world controls most of the world's most valuble resource, oil, which generates probably more wealth per capita for that region than any other region in the world. There is absolutely no excuse for *anyone* in that area being poor. It is the greed of the people in control of those areas and not US "greed" that is the issue. The US is in an absolute no win situation around the world. We are most certainly damned if we do and damned if we don't. For example, we are told that we bungled in Afganistan by arming the natives and letting them fight the aggressors themselves, but than we also bungled in Kuwait by sending in troops and doing the fighting ourselves. Obviously, there is no answer. People are going to continue to rip on us no matter what we do. In all honesty, I believe that the US should simply launch a full scale surprise nuclear attack against the entire planet. If the world wants something to bitch about - give them that. And we Americans could just get back to living in our quaint little Jeffersonian democracy. "I never met anyone I didn't like" Will Rogers.
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Our Prime minister, Jean Chretian, is a moron. He thought it was more important to be at a political fund raising dinner in Toronto, then to take a 90 minute flight be in Washington for US President Bush's message last night or to go to New York to show the Americans that all Canadians sympathize, support and stand by our American friends. It's no wonder that Canada, the US's largest trading partner, and in my opinion, it's closest friend, was not even mentioned in Bush's speech last night. On behalf of all Canadians, I apologize to our American friends for this moron's actions. A not so proud canadian. --- Better to be silent and thought the fool, than to open your mouth and prove it!
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Our Prime minister, Jean Chretian, is a moron. He thought it was more important to be at a political fund raising dinner in Toronto, then to take a 90 minute flight be in Washington for US President Bush's message last night or to go to New York to show the Americans that all Canadians sympathize, support and stand by our American friends. It's no wonder that Canada, the US's largest trading partner, and in my opinion, it's closest friend, was not even mentioned in Bush's speech last night. On behalf of all Canadians, I apologize to our American friends for this moron's actions. A not so proud canadian. --- Better to be silent and thought the fool, than to open your mouth and prove it!
Not to mention the "brazilian crazy cow" thing some months ago... X| Furor fit laesa saepius patientia
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Ok - "Sometimes a banana is just a banana". I guess you're right - but when a site claims it is an 'actual transcript' released by the 'Chief of Naval Operations' I'd say it crosses the line between urban legend and outright lie. Right then. For my penance, I will now go and read the entire archive of east coast Canadian lighthouse radio transcripts whilst smearing my body with Vegemite and rancid bacon fat and nibbling on raw whitchetty grubs (slowly) with 'Stranger on the Shore' speeded up from 33 to 45 playing loudly in the background. Geez - now I'm starting to wonder about the whole "Good luck Mr. Gorsky" thing... :confused:
Wasting Vegemite like that will lead to a beating with a Nulla Nulla. :-D Michael Martin Pegasystems Pty Ltd Australia martm@pegasystems.com +61 413-004-018 "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace" - Victor Stone
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David, I have not checked lately but I do not believe that our defense spending is even half the figure you cite. The last time I paid any attention to it (circa 1992) is was about 350 billion. Our department of health and human services (which also manages social security) is at about a trillion dollars and is *by far* the largest department in our budget. The truth is that most of the world could live in weatlh and prosperity if those who could would simply adopt our economic model (Instead of us trying to adopt the other model of high taxation and inane government programs). The Islamic world controls most of the world's most valuble resource, oil, which generates probably more wealth per capita for that region than any other region in the world. There is absolutely no excuse for *anyone* in that area being poor. It is the greed of the people in control of those areas and not US "greed" that is the issue. The US is in an absolute no win situation around the world. We are most certainly damned if we do and damned if we don't. For example, we are told that we bungled in Afganistan by arming the natives and letting them fight the aggressors themselves, but than we also bungled in Kuwait by sending in troops and doing the fighting ourselves. Obviously, there is no answer. People are going to continue to rip on us no matter what we do. In all honesty, I believe that the US should simply launch a full scale surprise nuclear attack against the entire planet. If the world wants something to bitch about - give them that. And we Americans could just get back to living in our quaint little Jeffersonian democracy. "I never met anyone I didn't like" Will Rogers.
* Instead of us trying to adopt the other model of high taxation and inane government programs * US has one of the highest tax rates in the world. Most of middle-east have virtually non-existant income taxes. But, then government makes money from selling oil. It should be noted that US involvement in world affairs started at the end of WWII. Oil and keeping Russia at bay were the US interests. They were not interested in human rights or anything. Saudi Arabia/Pakistan has no human rights. Why are US allies with them? US was not interested in the area, when most of the area was British colonies and was not opposed to colonial rule also. When the British left, they bungled along with the local people in the transfer of power. Palestine/Israel, Pakistan/India are examples of this. I think what these issues need is for the people of these regions to solve their problems themselves. The development of these areas have been hampered to a large extent by the terrorist activities and instability due to issues from a flawed transfer of power. India have lost 2 Prime Ministers in assassinations, has had four wars fought on its soil, with Pakistan and China. It also has a very large illiterate population, which cannot take advantage of the economic policy that you are talking about. Btw, India is as liberal and democratic as US or UK. But, it will take many more years before the rural population of India will start thinking about anything other than getting their daily food. India's economic capital, Bombay, was bombed in 13 locations killing 2500 people by Islamic terrorist organizations. There has been overwhelming evidence produced by Indian intelligence that the chief co-ordinator of these attacks - Dawood Ibrahim - lives 2 blocks away from Pakistan President, Pervez Musharaff. India has appealed to the international community to take this up with Pakistan. But, there is very little that can be done as long as Pakistan has military support from China and United States. The large majority of Taliban training camps are in West Pakistan. The terrorists trained there do terrorist activities in Kashmir on a daily basis and the Indian army is on war with these people for the last 15 years. Many times, Pakistani troops have also been killed along with militants in encounters with Indian Army inside Indian territory. It should be noted that till 1 day before Pakistan tested nuclear weapons, United States said that Pakistan was not building nuclear weapons. India had nuclear capability from 1972 and never used
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Matt, I understand your feelings, but you have to understand, as your government obviously does, that 300 million people have to be careful about how they dictate world politics to more than 6 Billion. I was running the math through my head earlier today and said, wow, $30 Billion a year in humanitarian aid (and the US Defense department's budget is $ 850B/yr) would double the annual income of all of the 1 Billion people in the middle east. Think about it. How happy would you be to have your salary doubled? I'm not in any possible way trying to justify what happened on Sept 11, but you have to appreciate the stakes if you're going to appreciate the situation. David
> but you have to understand, as your government obviously does, > that 300 million people have to be careful about how they dictate > world politics to more than 6 Billion. They don't dictate anything to anyone. Sincerely. > 30 Billion a year in humanitarian aid (and the US Defense department's > budget is $ 850B/yr) would double the annual income of all of the > 1 Billion people in the middle east. But it would also lower the security of people, who produced this money by their honest work... Last but not least, increased productivity, education and other money generating activities in that part of the world would also double their salaries. So why don't they do it themselves? Sincerely, Tomaz
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> but you have to understand, as your government obviously does, > that 300 million people have to be careful about how they dictate > world politics to more than 6 Billion. They don't dictate anything to anyone. Sincerely. > 30 Billion a year in humanitarian aid (and the US Defense department's > budget is $ 850B/yr) would double the annual income of all of the > 1 Billion people in the middle east. But it would also lower the security of people, who produced this money by their honest work... Last but not least, increased productivity, education and other money generating activities in that part of the world would also double their salaries. So why don't they do it themselves? Sincerely, Tomaz
*So why don't they do it themselves?* Most of these areas were western colonies, although not US, and have a free history of only about 50 years. Israel has grown the most because the people were mostly immigrant Jews from the West and had continuous western funding and support. It is like releasing a slave, who does not know how to read and write, and telling them that they can operate in the Wallstreet and make money. There has to be international support for oppressed people and helping them to reach a stage, where they can *do it themselves*. Infact, China and Singapore achieved more than India, due to non-existence of democracy. That is the only way a poor country can achieve growth fast. ... and the support for following a democratic and non-violent conduct in international relations - US partners and aids Pakistan, which has supported and trained terrorists for their activities in India. -Thomas
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* Instead of us trying to adopt the other model of high taxation and inane government programs * US has one of the highest tax rates in the world. Most of middle-east have virtually non-existant income taxes. But, then government makes money from selling oil. It should be noted that US involvement in world affairs started at the end of WWII. Oil and keeping Russia at bay were the US interests. They were not interested in human rights or anything. Saudi Arabia/Pakistan has no human rights. Why are US allies with them? US was not interested in the area, when most of the area was British colonies and was not opposed to colonial rule also. When the British left, they bungled along with the local people in the transfer of power. Palestine/Israel, Pakistan/India are examples of this. I think what these issues need is for the people of these regions to solve their problems themselves. The development of these areas have been hampered to a large extent by the terrorist activities and instability due to issues from a flawed transfer of power. India have lost 2 Prime Ministers in assassinations, has had four wars fought on its soil, with Pakistan and China. It also has a very large illiterate population, which cannot take advantage of the economic policy that you are talking about. Btw, India is as liberal and democratic as US or UK. But, it will take many more years before the rural population of India will start thinking about anything other than getting their daily food. India's economic capital, Bombay, was bombed in 13 locations killing 2500 people by Islamic terrorist organizations. There has been overwhelming evidence produced by Indian intelligence that the chief co-ordinator of these attacks - Dawood Ibrahim - lives 2 blocks away from Pakistan President, Pervez Musharaff. India has appealed to the international community to take this up with Pakistan. But, there is very little that can be done as long as Pakistan has military support from China and United States. The large majority of Taliban training camps are in West Pakistan. The terrorists trained there do terrorist activities in Kashmir on a daily basis and the Indian army is on war with these people for the last 15 years. Many times, Pakistani troops have also been killed along with militants in encounters with Indian Army inside Indian territory. It should be noted that till 1 day before Pakistan tested nuclear weapons, United States said that Pakistan was not building nuclear weapons. India had nuclear capability from 1972 and never used
"US has one of the highest tax rates in the world. " Well, yes, and we will be *the* highest if we are not careful. That's the point I wanted to make without going into detail about it. In other words, we *are* evolving in that direction rather than trying, by example, to encourage the rest of the world (at least Europe) to evolve in a more American direction (in a traditional sense) towards the notion that lower taxation will provide more benefit to everyone in the long run, especially the poor, and provide for a healthier, more robust and efficient economy. "Most of middle-east have virtually non-existant income taxes. But, then government makes money from selling oil." Geez, I would hope so! Lastly, I don't disagree with any of the facts you present. I don't believe, however, that the motivation for the "terrorism" is caused by some sort of diplomatic failure by our government over the years. I have no confidence that a war on "terrorism" and polite international diplomacy has any hope of success. I don't think we are going to be successful with these tactics, and frankly I think that western civilization is about to collapse in on itself in exactly the same fashion that the WTC did and for exactly the same underlieing mechanical reasons. 10 to 20 years left, tops. But, hey, I will be happy to be prooven wrong.:rose: "I never met anyone I didn't like" Will Rogers.
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"US has one of the highest tax rates in the world. " Well, yes, and we will be *the* highest if we are not careful. That's the point I wanted to make without going into detail about it. In other words, we *are* evolving in that direction rather than trying, by example, to encourage the rest of the world (at least Europe) to evolve in a more American direction (in a traditional sense) towards the notion that lower taxation will provide more benefit to everyone in the long run, especially the poor, and provide for a healthier, more robust and efficient economy. "Most of middle-east have virtually non-existant income taxes. But, then government makes money from selling oil." Geez, I would hope so! Lastly, I don't disagree with any of the facts you present. I don't believe, however, that the motivation for the "terrorism" is caused by some sort of diplomatic failure by our government over the years. I have no confidence that a war on "terrorism" and polite international diplomacy has any hope of success. I don't think we are going to be successful with these tactics, and frankly I think that western civilization is about to collapse in on itself in exactly the same fashion that the WTC did and for exactly the same underlieing mechanical reasons. 10 to 20 years left, tops. But, hey, I will be happy to be prooven wrong.:rose: "I never met anyone I didn't like" Will Rogers.
I am certainly not implying that terrorism is caused by US diplomatic failure. But, the sincerity of its anti-terrorist activities will be suspected by many nations due to diplomatic reasons. I very well understand that each and every nation has to fend for itself, but short-sighted policies lead to more complex situations. United States or no country has the right to complicate matters for other nations. They are already very complex. United States is on war with Afganistan (President Bush's demands will never be met, considering Afganistan history). But, will this end terrorism? Just as the WTC attacks have instilled a patriotism in US, an attack on Afganistan will instill same feelings there. Infact, it will do the same thing to any country in the world. There is no overnight solution. United States has more responsibility because they are the largest military power. I hope they act in a mature and realistic manner
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David, I have not checked lately but I do not believe that our defense spending is even half the figure you cite. The last time I paid any attention to it (circa 1992) is was about 350 billion. Our department of health and human services (which also manages social security) is at about a trillion dollars and is *by far* the largest department in our budget. The truth is that most of the world could live in weatlh and prosperity if those who could would simply adopt our economic model (Instead of us trying to adopt the other model of high taxation and inane government programs). The Islamic world controls most of the world's most valuble resource, oil, which generates probably more wealth per capita for that region than any other region in the world. There is absolutely no excuse for *anyone* in that area being poor. It is the greed of the people in control of those areas and not US "greed" that is the issue. The US is in an absolute no win situation around the world. We are most certainly damned if we do and damned if we don't. For example, we are told that we bungled in Afganistan by arming the natives and letting them fight the aggressors themselves, but than we also bungled in Kuwait by sending in troops and doing the fighting ourselves. Obviously, there is no answer. People are going to continue to rip on us no matter what we do. In all honesty, I believe that the US should simply launch a full scale surprise nuclear attack against the entire planet. If the world wants something to bitch about - give them that. And we Americans could just get back to living in our quaint little Jeffersonian democracy. "I never met anyone I didn't like" Will Rogers.
Hi Stan, >In all honesty, I believe that the US should simply >launch a full scale surprise nuclear attack against >the entire planet. If the world wants something to >bitch about - give them that. And we Americans could >just get back to living in our quaint little >Jeffersonian democracy. Please tell me that your not serious about that statement! But please go ahead and waste the planet - I'm sure the russians, the ucrainians and the chinese would take up the challenge and terraform the North American continent. Not even a lunatic like McCarthy dreamt of doing something like that - not even when thing was getting hot in the sixties. Christian Skovdal Andersen
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Hi Stan, >In all honesty, I believe that the US should simply >launch a full scale surprise nuclear attack against >the entire planet. If the world wants something to >bitch about - give them that. And we Americans could >just get back to living in our quaint little >Jeffersonian democracy. Please tell me that your not serious about that statement! But please go ahead and waste the planet - I'm sure the russians, the ucrainians and the chinese would take up the challenge and terraform the North American continent. Not even a lunatic like McCarthy dreamt of doing something like that - not even when thing was getting hot in the sixties. Christian Skovdal Andersen
Oh, please, Christian. OK: "I'm not serious about that statement". How's that? How's this statment: "I wish we could relocate the U.S. to the planet Mars so that we could have our quaint little Jeffersonian Democracy and tell all the moronic earthlings to kiss our rear." "I never met anyone I didn't like" Will Rogers.
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Oh, please, Christian. OK: "I'm not serious about that statement". How's that? How's this statment: "I wish we could relocate the U.S. to the planet Mars so that we could have our quaint little Jeffersonian Democracy and tell all the moronic earthlings to kiss our rear." "I never met anyone I didn't like" Will Rogers.
>"I wish we could relocate the U.S. to the planet >Mars so that we could have our quaint little >Jeffersonian Democracy and tell all the moronic >earthlings to kiss our rear." Much better. You would propably feel at home imidiately. Christian Skovdal Andersen
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*So why don't they do it themselves?* Most of these areas were western colonies, although not US, and have a free history of only about 50 years. Israel has grown the most because the people were mostly immigrant Jews from the West and had continuous western funding and support. It is like releasing a slave, who does not know how to read and write, and telling them that they can operate in the Wallstreet and make money. There has to be international support for oppressed people and helping them to reach a stage, where they can *do it themselves*. Infact, China and Singapore achieved more than India, due to non-existence of democracy. That is the only way a poor country can achieve growth fast. ... and the support for following a democratic and non-violent conduct in international relations - US partners and aids Pakistan, which has supported and trained terrorists for their activities in India. -Thomas
I don't understand your argumentation. If these countries weren't western colonies, they would be even more behind time. Simple fact is that we were more advanced civilization in terms of production of goods. And they are not doing so bad considering their productiveness. But nobody will do their work for them. That would be irrational. The only way that they can do as good as we are (the west) is if we wait for them for hundred years. And in the midtime spend some of our money to help them in every possible way from birth control to education, some of it on propaganda to convince them that we are not colonizing them, etc. That's bullshit! We already have a Marshall plan for the entire planet. It is a good plan that is fair for all. It is called GLOBALIZATION. If they can deal with it - that's allright with me. They can find their own way. I will respect it as long as they don't create paradoxical situations in which they then come to us telling us to support them in their own way. Tomaz Tomaz Stih, B.Sc.SE
