Is VC/C++ dead???
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Hi all, I've just got the September Visual Studio Mag (I actually subscribe to VCDJ but …). I know VB is coming strong but not so fast. To my surprise I don’t find anything on VC++ any more. 80% of the mag is either .NET and VB, the closest thing to C++ is C#. Must I jump on the C# bandwagon just not to be written off? I wonder am I the odds one out? Or the market says the fashion wind is C# and we should change our dress code/hat. Whats you view? Do I have to dash to the book shop to get that last “C# does everything better” book on the shelf? Will
Yes, you have to recognize that MS has a vested interest in seeing C# become a hit, so they're trying to get all the C++ programmers over to it. That's why you're being bombarded. You have to use judgment and determine whether it's worthwhile for you. :) CodeGuy The WTL newsgroup: 940 members and growing ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wtl
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Hi all, I've just got the September Visual Studio Mag (I actually subscribe to VCDJ but …). I know VB is coming strong but not so fast. To my surprise I don’t find anything on VC++ any more. 80% of the mag is either .NET and VB, the closest thing to C++ is C#. Must I jump on the C# bandwagon just not to be written off? I wonder am I the odds one out? Or the market says the fashion wind is C# and we should change our dress code/hat. Whats you view? Do I have to dash to the book shop to get that last “C# does everything better” book on the shelf? Will
Marketing, Microsoft want everyone using C#, even VB.net seems to be pushed out of the limelight. Unfortunately for Microsoft the are 100s of thousands legacy applications to be supported and are still in development. I know lets all drop what we're doing and use .NET. MSDN is become too softcore for my liking. At the end of the day, people still have to *write* real code, custom controls and desktop applications which *can* only done by such languages are C++ that produce *native* executables. So in a nutshell no C++ will sit beside C#, and VB who knows (and who cares!). Norm Almond Chief Technical Architect FS Walker Hughes Limited
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Marketing, Microsoft want everyone using C#, even VB.net seems to be pushed out of the limelight. Unfortunately for Microsoft the are 100s of thousands legacy applications to be supported and are still in development. I know lets all drop what we're doing and use .NET. MSDN is become too softcore for my liking. At the end of the day, people still have to *write* real code, custom controls and desktop applications which *can* only done by such languages are C++ that produce *native* executables. So in a nutshell no C++ will sit beside C#, and VB who knows (and who cares!). Norm Almond Chief Technical Architect FS Walker Hughes Limited
I believe that MS is trying to replace it with C# (which i beleve its more like VB than C++). I am not very likly to automaticly switch to .NET. Also, i have started considering programming for Linux, becuase of the switch. Visit Ltpb.8m.com Surf the web faster than ever: http://www.404Browser.com
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Hi all, I've just got the September Visual Studio Mag (I actually subscribe to VCDJ but …). I know VB is coming strong but not so fast. To my surprise I don’t find anything on VC++ any more. 80% of the mag is either .NET and VB, the closest thing to C++ is C#. Must I jump on the C# bandwagon just not to be written off? I wonder am I the odds one out? Or the market says the fashion wind is C# and we should change our dress code/hat. Whats you view? Do I have to dash to the book shop to get that last “C# does everything better” book on the shelf? Will
I was also a subscriber to the same magizine. I agree that there is too high of a concentration of VB, after all i subscribed to a C++ mag not a C# or VB magizine. I unsubscribed, because of it. Visit Ltpb.8m.com Surf the web faster than ever: http://www.404Browser.com
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I believe that MS is trying to replace it with C# (which i beleve its more like VB than C++). I am not very likly to automaticly switch to .NET. Also, i have started considering programming for Linux, becuase of the switch. Visit Ltpb.8m.com Surf the web faster than ever: http://www.404Browser.com
>I believe that MS is trying to replace it with C# (which i beleve its more >like VB than C++). I think it is more like Java than like VB. >Also, i have started considering programming for Linux, becuase of the switch. I'm curious, why switch to Linux when C++ will always be with us. Will you have to switch your customers over to Linux. For me programming on Linux is not possible until my customers change over to Linux, which I doubt they ever will. I may not agree with some of Microsoft's strategys, but they do help me to pay my bills. Michael :-)
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Hi all, I've just got the September Visual Studio Mag (I actually subscribe to VCDJ but …). I know VB is coming strong but not so fast. To my surprise I don’t find anything on VC++ any more. 80% of the mag is either .NET and VB, the closest thing to C++ is C#. Must I jump on the C# bandwagon just not to be written off? I wonder am I the odds one out? Or the market says the fashion wind is C# and we should change our dress code/hat. Whats you view? Do I have to dash to the book shop to get that last “C# does everything better” book on the shelf? Will
I was dragged kicking and screaming from asm to C. Then again to C++. Then had to add VDA because users want it. But applications are still done in C++, because VB/A is limited, and quite frankly unclean for many a project. When I first heard of C#, from its description I thought it might be a good thing. I was sent a beta copy by Microsoft. It turned out to be a mixture of VB and java, just using a few C++ concepts to fool the stupid. Ok, for VB programmers c# is a good thing. I think that it actually widens there capabilities. But for C++ programmers it is a narrowing language. For java programmers it only produces a problem. Which will win, Sun java or MS C#. It can only be a matter of opinion in the end but, Linux, UNIX and Sunsystems are in the java corner. Microsoft will get all the VB/A programmers, because there have made it easy for them to switch. Unfortunately there are not many alternatives. How many big name compilers do you see on the shelves these days? So effectively MS has control over what is available to new programmers. Work on MSC++ has basically stopped. I think C# will be the inevitable main compiler simply because I can not see another compiler that we the programmers could buy as a viable alternative to MS. Borland were big, it was only because MS as the operating system writers were able to always be first with the compilers for it. Quite frankly if company's such as Symantic and Borland can't keep up then no one can. We do it for the joy of seeing the users struggle.
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I was dragged kicking and screaming from asm to C. Then again to C++. Then had to add VDA because users want it. But applications are still done in C++, because VB/A is limited, and quite frankly unclean for many a project. When I first heard of C#, from its description I thought it might be a good thing. I was sent a beta copy by Microsoft. It turned out to be a mixture of VB and java, just using a few C++ concepts to fool the stupid. Ok, for VB programmers c# is a good thing. I think that it actually widens there capabilities. But for C++ programmers it is a narrowing language. For java programmers it only produces a problem. Which will win, Sun java or MS C#. It can only be a matter of opinion in the end but, Linux, UNIX and Sunsystems are in the java corner. Microsoft will get all the VB/A programmers, because there have made it easy for them to switch. Unfortunately there are not many alternatives. How many big name compilers do you see on the shelves these days? So effectively MS has control over what is available to new programmers. Work on MSC++ has basically stopped. I think C# will be the inevitable main compiler simply because I can not see another compiler that we the programmers could buy as a viable alternative to MS. Borland were big, it was only because MS as the operating system writers were able to always be first with the compilers for it. Quite frankly if company's such as Symantic and Borland can't keep up then no one can. We do it for the joy of seeing the users struggle.
> Work on MSC++ has basically stopped. Do you know this for a fact or is it speculation. I can't see Microsoft stopping work on the C++ compiler. They have to use something to write Windows, VB and maintain all those other products that they have. Michael :-)
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> Work on MSC++ has basically stopped. Do you know this for a fact or is it speculation. I can't see Microsoft stopping work on the C++ compiler. They have to use something to write Windows, VB and maintain all those other products that they have. Michael :-)
The Beta Dev Studio MS sent me imcluded, C++ V6 c# .bet VB VSS The C++ is the same version as the one I had previously bought (when would it be, three years ago?). In fact after it had loaded I still had to do the last update I had from at least a year ago. Just about all the help files and bumf are aimed at the c#/net stuff. Sort of understandable of cause, since there are introducing us to a newish product and sell it to developers. Incidently, the IDE is heavier, it ran like a slug on my home PC (64MB ram). Maybe worth keeping your current IDE and only loading the compiler etc. We do it for the joy of seeing the users struggle.
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The Beta Dev Studio MS sent me imcluded, C++ V6 c# .bet VB VSS The C++ is the same version as the one I had previously bought (when would it be, three years ago?). In fact after it had loaded I still had to do the last update I had from at least a year ago. Just about all the help files and bumf are aimed at the c#/net stuff. Sort of understandable of cause, since there are introducing us to a newish product and sell it to developers. Incidently, the IDE is heavier, it ran like a slug on my home PC (64MB ram). Maybe worth keeping your current IDE and only loading the compiler etc. We do it for the joy of seeing the users struggle.
The beta version of VC++ 7 that I have, has an improved IDE. New ATL and MFC classes. That indicates that it is still being developed to me. Michael :-)
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I was dragged kicking and screaming from asm to C. Then again to C++. Then had to add VDA because users want it. But applications are still done in C++, because VB/A is limited, and quite frankly unclean for many a project. When I first heard of C#, from its description I thought it might be a good thing. I was sent a beta copy by Microsoft. It turned out to be a mixture of VB and java, just using a few C++ concepts to fool the stupid. Ok, for VB programmers c# is a good thing. I think that it actually widens there capabilities. But for C++ programmers it is a narrowing language. For java programmers it only produces a problem. Which will win, Sun java or MS C#. It can only be a matter of opinion in the end but, Linux, UNIX and Sunsystems are in the java corner. Microsoft will get all the VB/A programmers, because there have made it easy for them to switch. Unfortunately there are not many alternatives. How many big name compilers do you see on the shelves these days? So effectively MS has control over what is available to new programmers. Work on MSC++ has basically stopped. I think C# will be the inevitable main compiler simply because I can not see another compiler that we the programmers could buy as a viable alternative to MS. Borland were big, it was only because MS as the operating system writers were able to always be first with the compilers for it. Quite frankly if company's such as Symantic and Borland can't keep up then no one can. We do it for the joy of seeing the users struggle.
I agree with Rassman, there is no alternative to Visual Studio. If MS decide to give up VC++ most companies won't have any other choice than to choose C#. I use CBuilder and Delphi professionaly and they are far below MSVC capabilities - although very good products. I believe that in the end the .NET framework will be a good product too. But as most of you do I'm fond of VC++ and can't imagine I could appreciate working on another language. I hope MS will keep C++ alive, simplicity in programming - like C# - is not a good point for me. That's what Borland did with CBuilder and the result is that everybody is able to make a Windows program that's OK. But it is much more difficult to make good graphics, subclassing, inheritance,... than with VC. I know what I'm talking about. Long life VC++ Yarp
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The beta version of VC++ 7 that I have, has an improved IDE. New ATL and MFC classes. That indicates that it is still being developed to me. Michael :-)
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I agree with Rassman, there is no alternative to Visual Studio. If MS decide to give up VC++ most companies won't have any other choice than to choose C#. I use CBuilder and Delphi professionaly and they are far below MSVC capabilities - although very good products. I believe that in the end the .NET framework will be a good product too. But as most of you do I'm fond of VC++ and can't imagine I could appreciate working on another language. I hope MS will keep C++ alive, simplicity in programming - like C# - is not a good point for me. That's what Borland did with CBuilder and the result is that everybody is able to make a Windows program that's OK. But it is much more difficult to make good graphics, subclassing, inheritance,... than with VC. I know what I'm talking about. Long life VC++ Yarp
Do you still use OWL? I thought that was an amazingly good system. The only thing stoping me concentrating on that at the time it came out was that I was contracting for a company that insisted on MFC. But for my own utilities I often used OWL. Actually, for that company, I slipped in a few DLL's written using the OWL system (I hope they not reading this, there might tell me off). We do it for the joy of seeing the users struggle.
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Do you still use OWL? I thought that was an amazingly good system. The only thing stoping me concentrating on that at the time it came out was that I was contracting for a company that insisted on MFC. But for my own utilities I often used OWL. Actually, for that company, I slipped in a few DLL's written using the OWL system (I hope they not reading this, there might tell me off). We do it for the joy of seeing the users struggle.
Nope, I never had the chance to work with OWL. I began programming Borland with Delphi3 and MSVC vith 1.5. I do the contrary : for my own utilities -in CBuilder- I use MFC DLL's which produce smaller code ;)) The drawback of Borlands products compared to MS is that you've got to provide the runtime DLL's with your application. It make those hard to deploy on the Web. So you're an OWL nostalgic ? Hope, I won't ever be a C++ one ;)) Either Borland or MSVC I love that language. Yarp