Commercial Work?
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Does anyone know of a site that allows people to form groups for commercial products to develop? That is, a site that will list commercial projects that people have went in together to develop and split the profits of their labor base on the percentage of work people have put in? Kind of like a Source Forge for commerical work? Rocky Moore <><
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Does anyone know of a site that allows people to form groups for commercial products to develop? That is, a site that will list commercial projects that people have went in together to develop and split the profits of their labor base on the percentage of work people have put in? Kind of like a Source Forge for commerical work? Rocky Moore <><
I dont know of such site however, this is a very interresting concept! I would not mind being part of something like that. Cheers, Erick
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Does anyone know of a site that allows people to form groups for commercial products to develop? That is, a site that will list commercial projects that people have went in together to develop and split the profits of their labor base on the percentage of work people have put in? Kind of like a Source Forge for commerical work? Rocky Moore <><
On one level it's a great idea. But imagine the politicking, mediation and litigation that would be required to divy up the cash (on those projects that actually made any). I doubt there would be any left over for the actual contributors.:sigh::doh:
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Does anyone know of a site that allows people to form groups for commercial products to develop? That is, a site that will list commercial projects that people have went in together to develop and split the profits of their labor base on the percentage of work people have put in? Kind of like a Source Forge for commerical work? Rocky Moore <><
I just saw one the other day. You "bid" on projects. It appears to be like a lottery of some kin. But alas I cant find the link..... found it. http://www.topcoder.com/[^] Another, but on bigger scale www.elance.com[^] leppie::AllocCPArticle("Zee blog");
Seen on my Campus BBS: Linux is free...coz no-one wants to pay for it. -
I just saw one the other day. You "bid" on projects. It appears to be like a lottery of some kin. But alas I cant find the link..... found it. http://www.topcoder.com/[^] Another, but on bigger scale www.elance.com[^] leppie::AllocCPArticle("Zee blog");
Seen on my Campus BBS: Linux is free...coz no-one wants to pay for it.You can bid on projects on the following website: www.codelance.com[^] phpWebNotes is a page annotation system modelled after php.net. http://webnotes.sourceforge.net/demo.php[^]
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I just saw one the other day. You "bid" on projects. It appears to be like a lottery of some kin. But alas I cant find the link..... found it. http://www.topcoder.com/[^] Another, but on bigger scale www.elance.com[^] leppie::AllocCPArticle("Zee blog");
Seen on my Campus BBS: Linux is free...coz no-one wants to pay for it.rentacoder.com - be warned, it looks like the projects there want to pay 1/10th of what the real world would.
Todd C. Wilson (meme@nopcode.com) NOPcode.com "Flow with whatever may happen and let your mind be free: Stay centered by accepting whatever you are doing. This is the Way." - Chuang-Tzu "Zen in the Martial Arts"
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rentacoder.com - be warned, it looks like the projects there want to pay 1/10th of what the real world would.
Todd C. Wilson (meme@nopcode.com) NOPcode.com "Flow with whatever may happen and let your mind be free: Stay centered by accepting whatever you are doing. This is the Way." - Chuang-Tzu "Zen in the Martial Arts"
1/10th? More like 1/100th. :suss:
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Earth angel, Will you be mine? My darling dear, Love you all the time. I'm just a fool, A fool in love with you.
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Does anyone know of a site that allows people to form groups for commercial products to develop? That is, a site that will list commercial projects that people have went in together to develop and split the profits of their labor base on the percentage of work people have put in? Kind of like a Source Forge for commerical work? Rocky Moore <><
How about this? www.asynchrony.com[^] Weiye, Chen When pursuing your dreams, don't forget to enjoy your life...
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1/10th? More like 1/100th. :suss:
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Earth angel, Will you be mine? My darling dear, Love you all the time. I'm just a fool, A fool in love with you.
So you're also not impressed with them. Sadly, the people posting jobs they want done are pretty real-world typical - they have no idea what the cost of things are (I get the same rude shock when I take the Rust Bucket into the shop).
Todd C. Wilson (meme@nopcode.com) NOPcode.com Visual Face Lift: Skinning for apps Listen! Audio Server: Be the music "Flow with whatever may happen and let your mind be free: Stay centered by accepting whatever you are doing. This is the Way." - Chuang-Tzu "Zen in the Martial Arts"
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So you're also not impressed with them. Sadly, the people posting jobs they want done are pretty real-world typical - they have no idea what the cost of things are (I get the same rude shock when I take the Rust Bucket into the shop).
Todd C. Wilson (meme@nopcode.com) NOPcode.com Visual Face Lift: Skinning for apps Listen! Audio Server: Be the music "Flow with whatever may happen and let your mind be free: Stay centered by accepting whatever you are doing. This is the Way." - Chuang-Tzu "Zen in the Martial Arts"
Todd C. Wilson wrote: So you're also not impressed with them Definately not. As you say, the companies putting on the larger projects really do have no idea what things should cost - I have seen projects that would take six months of work being offered for less than $100 - and they have people fighting each other to take them on! Sheesh, the whole place has it backwards. :eek:
David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum
Earth angel, Will you be mine? My darling dear, Love you all the time. I'm just a fool, A fool in love with you.
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How about this? www.asynchrony.com[^] Weiye, Chen When pursuing your dreams, don't forget to enjoy your life...
Very, Very close! But I worry about things like "Lion's share" when it comes to getting paid and the idea that the company would be handling the end product. Wouldn't it be good to have a site that simply allows groups to form and then the groups have full and complete control? They can bring in people for marketing, investments, management, not just development. Have you worked in any of the groups at Asynchrony? Rocky Moore <><
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I just saw one the other day. You "bid" on projects. It appears to be like a lottery of some kin. But alas I cant find the link..... found it. http://www.topcoder.com/[^] Another, but on bigger scale www.elance.com[^] leppie::AllocCPArticle("Zee blog");
Seen on my Campus BBS: Linux is free...coz no-one wants to pay for it.leppie wrote: I just saw one the other day. You "bid" on projects. Yeah, this is just selling yourself to do work for others to reap the profit. Most of them have people out there (somewhere in the world) that will work for $5 per hour or some slave labor wage. The main point is to allow people to group together to design, develop and market an application for profit. Just a few of thoughts rambling around my head -- Group people by skill (developer, sales, management, graphics, etc.). Each person would have a searchable profile that contained what work they desired and a list of qualifications. A person has an idea for a product. They can search and find people with the skills they believe will be required and invite them to become a partner in the project. One the other side of the coin, there would be a list of projects containing: * Public brief of idea (usually minor not to give much away) * Private detailed specs for the project * Members of the project * Positions still available * Project locked/unlocked to submissions to join If a person finds a project that they believe can utilize their skills, they could submit a request to join the project unless locked and no other submissions allowed. Legal still will have to be involved such as NDAs to allow a free flow of ideas. I picture the person who has the original idea would have a double vote along with a double share of the profits while everyone else would only have a single vote/share. The share would be weighted based their actual contribution to the project. Everyone is paid the same for their work regardless of duty. The members would vote on the acceptable percentage members contribute to the project. This may be done on a weekly or monthly basis to review what people have contributed and give them a point value of what work was involved in their contribution. Your share in the vote and profits would be based on these points. With the point system, you would forever earn from part of the profits no matter how much you contributed. Those who stay with the project and put forth the work will all share nicely in its profits. You decide to drop out and no longer per part, you will still earn from your contributions! Voting would be carried out for the entire operations of the product. The members would vote not only on the development and contributions but also in dropping a member if it should be required, bringing more members in, how the marketing will be handled, vir
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leppie wrote: I just saw one the other day. You "bid" on projects. Yeah, this is just selling yourself to do work for others to reap the profit. Most of them have people out there (somewhere in the world) that will work for $5 per hour or some slave labor wage. The main point is to allow people to group together to design, develop and market an application for profit. Just a few of thoughts rambling around my head -- Group people by skill (developer, sales, management, graphics, etc.). Each person would have a searchable profile that contained what work they desired and a list of qualifications. A person has an idea for a product. They can search and find people with the skills they believe will be required and invite them to become a partner in the project. One the other side of the coin, there would be a list of projects containing: * Public brief of idea (usually minor not to give much away) * Private detailed specs for the project * Members of the project * Positions still available * Project locked/unlocked to submissions to join If a person finds a project that they believe can utilize their skills, they could submit a request to join the project unless locked and no other submissions allowed. Legal still will have to be involved such as NDAs to allow a free flow of ideas. I picture the person who has the original idea would have a double vote along with a double share of the profits while everyone else would only have a single vote/share. The share would be weighted based their actual contribution to the project. Everyone is paid the same for their work regardless of duty. The members would vote on the acceptable percentage members contribute to the project. This may be done on a weekly or monthly basis to review what people have contributed and give them a point value of what work was involved in their contribution. Your share in the vote and profits would be based on these points. With the point system, you would forever earn from part of the profits no matter how much you contributed. Those who stay with the project and put forth the work will all share nicely in its profits. You decide to drop out and no longer per part, you will still earn from your contributions! Voting would be carried out for the entire operations of the product. The members would vote not only on the development and contributions but also in dropping a member if it should be required, bringing more members in, how the marketing will be handled, vir
Rocky Moore wrote: double vote along with a double share of the profits Actually, this might be better as the original idea holder would have a full share (the same points as the highest point member) and vote just for the idea and bringing the project to the table. The person would receive another share (points) based on the work they contribute to the project. This would insure the the person with the idea would receive reward for having the idea and allowing others to share! Rocky Moore <><
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Does anyone know of a site that allows people to form groups for commercial products to develop? That is, a site that will list commercial projects that people have went in together to develop and split the profits of their labor base on the percentage of work people have put in? Kind of like a Source Forge for commerical work? Rocky Moore <><
This sounds good to me as well. There is one thing that you should be aware of. In most software corporations R&D (us programmers) is around one fourth of the labour costs. The rest goes towards things like marketing, administration, accounting, website management etc. Plus there is overhead, cost of infrastructure etc. While the R&D sector is the engine of the corporation, the rest of it could be termed the transmission, chassis, and someone has to steer. Probably these "extra" people are paid more than is necessary, but it can still add up. I am not saying this would not work - I am saying there are two choices, either you time share the accounting, website design etc, amoung a bunch of programmers, or you hire people to do it. If one of these services does that they will most likely take a chunk out of the cost. I have tried to use eLance.com with very little success - you are competing against East European and Asian programmers, who work for much less. Your advantage is that you are present in a developed nation - so it would have to be on-site work. Anyway if you figure all that out - I am in.
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How about this? www.asynchrony.com[^] Weiye, Chen When pursuing your dreams, don't forget to enjoy your life...
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This sounds good to me as well. There is one thing that you should be aware of. In most software corporations R&D (us programmers) is around one fourth of the labour costs. The rest goes towards things like marketing, administration, accounting, website management etc. Plus there is overhead, cost of infrastructure etc. While the R&D sector is the engine of the corporation, the rest of it could be termed the transmission, chassis, and someone has to steer. Probably these "extra" people are paid more than is necessary, but it can still add up. I am not saying this would not work - I am saying there are two choices, either you time share the accounting, website design etc, amoung a bunch of programmers, or you hire people to do it. If one of these services does that they will most likely take a chunk out of the cost. I have tried to use eLance.com with very little success - you are competing against East European and Asian programmers, who work for much less. Your advantage is that you are present in a developed nation - so it would have to be on-site work. Anyway if you figure all that out - I am in.
JWood wrote: I am not saying this would not work - I am saying there are two choices, either you time share the accounting, website design etc, amoung a bunch of programmers, or you hire people to do it. If one of these services does that they will most likely take a chunk out of the cost. I am including that into the list of members to be added to a project. Marketing people, accounting, etc., would be included as members just like programmers and all would earn their share based on what they contribute. There may be people that come in as members by their financial investment in project. The site itself though that hosted all these probjects may also offer marketing services to projects of a share also. The points that their share would be awarded would be based on the value to which the members of that project agreed. Possibly some members will fill multiple shoes for greater points. It would be up to the members though. JWood wrote: I have tried to use eLance.com with very little success - you are competing against East European and Asian programmers, who work for much less. Your advantage is that you are present in a developed nation - so it would have to be on-site work Yeah, that is a problem a lot lately with all the offshoring of jobs in the U.S., but actually this idea would work well for all involved since it would not really matter where you live as to what you earn. Imagine someone in India earning $150K-$200 on a project. It would be fair game for everyone. Of course, it would be up the members of a project as to who would be allowed to join and if they want only people from a specific country or even area for that matter, they will be able to decide. In your post about the other site that is somewhat like this but owns the source when the project is over, that is exactly the problem. The members of the project should own the source code based on their points and they could vote to do whatever they like with the project. I sure wish I could find a site like that, I would join up ;) Rocky Moore <><
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JWood wrote: I am not saying this would not work - I am saying there are two choices, either you time share the accounting, website design etc, amoung a bunch of programmers, or you hire people to do it. If one of these services does that they will most likely take a chunk out of the cost. I am including that into the list of members to be added to a project. Marketing people, accounting, etc., would be included as members just like programmers and all would earn their share based on what they contribute. There may be people that come in as members by their financial investment in project. The site itself though that hosted all these probjects may also offer marketing services to projects of a share also. The points that their share would be awarded would be based on the value to which the members of that project agreed. Possibly some members will fill multiple shoes for greater points. It would be up to the members though. JWood wrote: I have tried to use eLance.com with very little success - you are competing against East European and Asian programmers, who work for much less. Your advantage is that you are present in a developed nation - so it would have to be on-site work Yeah, that is a problem a lot lately with all the offshoring of jobs in the U.S., but actually this idea would work well for all involved since it would not really matter where you live as to what you earn. Imagine someone in India earning $150K-$200 on a project. It would be fair game for everyone. Of course, it would be up the members of a project as to who would be allowed to join and if they want only people from a specific country or even area for that matter, they will be able to decide. In your post about the other site that is somewhat like this but owns the source when the project is over, that is exactly the problem. The members of the project should own the source code based on their points and they could vote to do whatever they like with the project. I sure wish I could find a site like that, I would join up ;) Rocky Moore <><
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Does anyone know of a site that allows people to form groups for commercial products to develop? That is, a site that will list commercial projects that people have went in together to develop and split the profits of their labor base on the percentage of work people have put in? Kind of like a Source Forge for commerical work? Rocky Moore <><
I've thought about that in the past, too. I worried about the system for distributing profits, though. It seems likely that someone is going to question the fairness of money distribution. Is it based on who wrote the most lines of code (a questionable method for determining "effort"). If so, what about the person who did the high level design, which doesn't add to "lines of code". What's the value of a bug fix (which might add little or no lines of code)? What's the value of ideas? (For example, if someone comes up with an idea that saves weeks of work or doubles the number of sales?) I'm a little scared of those kinds of questions because it seems that people could get into a fight pretty easily when money is involved. If all members receive equal payout then people who did more work might resent the people who aren't pulling their own weight - or worse: they joined the project but then became apathetic and did nothing. One possibility is that members could vote for other members. Example: John did a lot of work, I give him 3 points. Bill did nothing, he gets 0 points. That can be abused, too (give your votes to me and I'll give my votes to you). In the end, I'm not quite sure how to resolve these problems. With conventional companies, you can at least rely on people being forced to be at work for 40 hours a week, and their pay doesn't affect how much you get paid (so they aren't stealing money from me by taking more profits than they are worth). That doesn't mean these problems are unresolvable. It's just hard to find good solutions. ------------------------------------------ The ousted but stubbornly non-dead leader reportedly released an audiotape this weekend, ending by calling on Iraqis to, quote, "resist the occupation in any way you can, from writing on walls, to boycotting, to demonstrating and taking up arms." adding, "you know, pretty much anything I used to kill you for." - The Daily Show
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I've thought about that in the past, too. I worried about the system for distributing profits, though. It seems likely that someone is going to question the fairness of money distribution. Is it based on who wrote the most lines of code (a questionable method for determining "effort"). If so, what about the person who did the high level design, which doesn't add to "lines of code". What's the value of a bug fix (which might add little or no lines of code)? What's the value of ideas? (For example, if someone comes up with an idea that saves weeks of work or doubles the number of sales?) I'm a little scared of those kinds of questions because it seems that people could get into a fight pretty easily when money is involved. If all members receive equal payout then people who did more work might resent the people who aren't pulling their own weight - or worse: they joined the project but then became apathetic and did nothing. One possibility is that members could vote for other members. Example: John did a lot of work, I give him 3 points. Bill did nothing, he gets 0 points. That can be abused, too (give your votes to me and I'll give my votes to you). In the end, I'm not quite sure how to resolve these problems. With conventional companies, you can at least rely on people being forced to be at work for 40 hours a week, and their pay doesn't affect how much you get paid (so they aren't stealing money from me by taking more profits than they are worth). That doesn't mean these problems are unresolvable. It's just hard to find good solutions. ------------------------------------------ The ousted but stubbornly non-dead leader reportedly released an audiotape this weekend, ending by calling on Iraqis to, quote, "resist the occupation in any way you can, from writing on walls, to boycotting, to demonstrating and taking up arms." adding, "you know, pretty much anything I used to kill you for." - The Daily Show
Maybe you could start it off simple - maybe just a referal system for software consultants. Say a software consultant gets a contracct at a place doing some govenernment work and it turns out to be a lot more work than he bargained for, or some things are outside of his specialization. He can let his manager know that he can tap into this resource for offloading some specialized tasks to a software co-operative that he is part of. It could then be tacked onto his invoice.
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On one level it's a great idea. But imagine the politicking, mediation and litigation that would be required to divy up the cash (on those projects that actually made any). I doubt there would be any left over for the actual contributors.:sigh::doh:
Joey Bloggs wrote: On one level it's a great idea. But imagine the politicking, mediation and litigation that would be required to divy up the cash (on those projects that actually made any). I doubt there would be any left over for the actual contributors. I was thinking the same thing. I think on a project as describe it would behoove all involved to have spelled out in writing--and a signed an aknowledgement of that agreement--who is entitled to what. Otherwise, if fortune is in their favor, each coder will realize that it was their work that was most valuable to the project and thus it is he/she that deserve the biggest reward. There is no honor amongst thieves, stock holders, and business partners...
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little past them into the impossible.--Arthur C. Clark