Toe The Line?
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"2 + 2 = 5", anybody who doesn't agree with me or says otherwise is just a small minded person who is unwilling to see the other side of an argument. .... Ummm, no. Sometimes people are just wrong. Sometimes they are just a troll. Many have posted intelligent commentaries on the current situation and have been well received. But when trolls come here TRYING to stir up trouble, people usually beat on them. As far as giving Taliban requesting proof, don't confuse due process and extradition with delay and obfuscation tactics. Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.
I would urge everyone to read the comments by Rickard OBerg(he is one of the makers of JBoss J2EE stack, in my opinion only rivaled by Orion and Weblogic) at: JavaLobby It was written several days after the attack and since then alot more things that just dont add up, came about.
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Go on and 'Pour a bucket of sun' over the whole country. While you are doing that remember Oklahoma! Remember the initial reaction, subsequent findings and punishment! Did anyone nuke the criminal and his country? The difference is that we had no evidence pointing to Bin Laden or any other Arab terrorists in Oklahoma City. Here, we've already got a money trail, wire transfers, identities of the hijackers...we know who did it, and now we're planning a retaliation against them.
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"OK...who funded and created Bin Laden? America Why? To fight the Russians and then he turned on America too" How illogical can you be? We give bin Ladin the financial support he needed to help defend an Islamic country - so he kills 6000+ Americans? Excuse me! Geez, how mad would he be if we had stood back and just let the USSR take Afganistan? Do you honestly beleive that this is about "inequalities in the world"? LOL. The Islamic world is not mad at us because of what we do or don't do. The U.S. is the leading supplier of aide to Afganistan for gods sake. Your argument makes no sense. What more could we possibly do for them? Join the world wide socialist utiopia? The irony is that they fear and hate us because of the values which our very existence and our success establish in the minds of people around the world. We represent the thing they most fear - proof that people, male and female, can coexist as individuals free from religious tyranny, as individuals pursueing their own private goals and ambitions in life without being dependent on a caretaker political/religious infrastructure. They hate us for the hopes and dreams that we plant in the minds of the people that their politcal establishment wants to control, especially their women. It is *they* who want to keep people unequal and downtrodden, not us. Try to sell your Marxist propaganda to someone else. "I never met anyone I didn't like" Will Rogers.
WELL SAID!! Regards, Alvaro
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I would urge everyone to read the comments by Rickard OBerg(he is one of the makers of JBoss J2EE stack, in my opinion only rivaled by Orion and Weblogic) at: JavaLobby It was written several days after the attack and since then alot more things that just dont add up, came about.
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The rulers 'MIGHT' not even have known! BTW, the UN has started sending food aid to Afghanistan. 2 days ago Tony Blair talked about a coalition for aid to Afghanistan! bart :rose:
These discussions are triggered due to the scale of the attack this time. But, the radical islamic terrorist groups have been operating for a long time and has made several attacks throughout the world. Also, many of their plans have been foiled by Israeli, US and Jordan intelligence (source: CNN). It is improbable that the rulers of the nations where these groups are based does not know anything about it. UN sends aid to Afghanistan. It is to be seen where it ends up. I feel sorry for the people of Afghanistan. The taliban rulers seems to be working in the interest of terrorist groups because they are the only ones that benefit from Taliban rule. Aid to Afghanistan should be conditional of personal freedom. If it is ignored, other countries should act to liberate them from the autocratic leaders, who do not care about people. Even if that will be bad for the people there in the short term, they will atleast have hope of a better future because there are people around the world who care for their well-being. Note: Would the world have tuned a blind eye to Jewish massacre in Germany, if Hitler never attacked any other nation. Probably would have. -Thomas
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That depends on what country you're in. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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The rulers 'MIGHT' not even have known! BTW, the UN has started sending food aid to Afghanistan. 2 days ago Tony Blair talked about a coalition for aid to Afghanistan! bart :rose:
The US is the single biggest provider of aid to Afghanistan. The Taliban has it under control, starving people can see the aid that was sent for them as they die. If the media is lying about this they put together a damn impressive set to do so. The rulers might not have known. Maybe, but they are human rights criminals in their own right. I think the US should invade a way, and set up tents with free food. Show the Islamic world they care about the people who are suffering ( they do, or why would they send aid ), and then go in and deal with the rest. I doubt the Taliban would find many soldiers in the people they have starved, not when the option is not to fight for the US, but simply to be fed by them. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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Have u ever heard of miscarriages of justice? How will u feel now if some other group claimed responsibility and there was proof to back thier claim. Note that i do not say anyone is guilty or not! This is not a matter of giving in to anyone's demands. It is simple - a demand was made by the most powerful nation on earth and it was backed a hot-headed president who was rightfully angry. Anger, alone, is not enough.
You think the US is going in based on Bushes anger ? With that sort of predisposed bias, it doesn't really matter WHAT anyone else says. There is more than enough evidence of Bin Ladens guilt in this and other events, and more than enough evidence that the Talibad is in cahoots with him. Example ? They released a statement that he couldn't be behind it because he can't contact the outside world. Hello ? The man can't afford a satellite phone ? The Talibad has been very good at acting in such a way as to arouse the sympathy of the Islamic world. That is the point of September 11, to start holy war. They are playing the game exactly the way they intended. The US could be smarter about that, but I don't think they need to present any further proof. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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You think the US is going in based on Bushes anger ? With that sort of predisposed bias, it doesn't really matter WHAT anyone else says. There is more than enough evidence of Bin Ladens guilt in this and other events, and more than enough evidence that the Talibad is in cahoots with him. Example ? They released a statement that he couldn't be behind it because he can't contact the outside world. Hello ? The man can't afford a satellite phone ? The Talibad has been very good at acting in such a way as to arouse the sympathy of the Islamic world. That is the point of September 11, to start holy war. They are playing the game exactly the way they intended. The US could be smarter about that, but I don't think they need to present any further proof. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
Releasing a statement that he couldn't be behind it is proof? The man can afford a phone is proof? The truth is we have no proof because it has not been released! Lame statements like that just prove the point! Maybe some people have that knowledge but you certainly do not have any proof! You should not flame anyone who expresses a contrary opinion to yours! If you read my original post you will see that you actually agree with me without realising that!
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The US is the single biggest provider of aid to Afghanistan. The Taliban has it under control, starving people can see the aid that was sent for them as they die. If the media is lying about this they put together a damn impressive set to do so. The rulers might not have known. Maybe, but they are human rights criminals in their own right. I think the US should invade a way, and set up tents with free food. Show the Islamic world they care about the people who are suffering ( they do, or why would they send aid ), and then go in and deal with the rest. I doubt the Taliban would find many soldiers in the people they have starved, not when the option is not to fight for the US, but simply to be fed by them. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
Invade a way? Kill how many more people? And then feed the rest? How very practical! Kill someone's brother and sister etc and then feed him? U know what, he will take your food and turn around and bomb u tomorrow! That is a sure way to create more terrorists. Why do u advocate this? Remember, life is precious - Afghan or American! bart :rose:
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Releasing a statement that he couldn't be behind it is proof? The man can afford a phone is proof? The truth is we have no proof because it has not been released! Lame statements like that just prove the point! Maybe some people have that knowledge but you certainly do not have any proof! You should not flame anyone who expresses a contrary opinion to yours! If you read my original post you will see that you actually agree with me without realising that!
Yes, it is proof that the Taliban is either lying or incredibly stupid. As has been said already, often proof cannot be revealed without revealing the source. Do you think the US will tar & feather Bin Laden, or torture him ? You think he wouldn't get a trial ? You must be joking, the US would be feeling the eyes of the world on them if they had him in jail. You should not flame anyone who expresses a contrary opinion to yours! If you read my original post you will see that you actually agree with me without realising that! You think I flamed you ? You must be joking, you ain't seen nothin' if you want to start a flame war. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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Yes, it is proof that the Taliban is either lying or incredibly stupid. As has been said already, often proof cannot be revealed without revealing the source. Do you think the US will tar & feather Bin Laden, or torture him ? You think he wouldn't get a trial ? You must be joking, the US would be feeling the eyes of the world on them if they had him in jail. You should not flame anyone who expresses a contrary opinion to yours! If you read my original post you will see that you actually agree with me without realising that! You think I flamed you ? You must be joking, you ain't seen nothin' if you want to start a flame war. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
So u think telling the Taliban 'Trust me, hand him over, I know he is guilty but I cannot tell u why. He will get a fair trail etc' is good enough? Remember this man fought for Afghanistan against the Russians and is some kind of hero. I have heard of quite a few miscarriages of justice! The legal system is not infallible.
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Invade a way? Kill how many more people? And then feed the rest? How very practical! Kill someone's brother and sister etc and then feed him? U know what, he will take your food and turn around and bomb u tomorrow! That is a sure way to create more terrorists. Why do u advocate this? Remember, life is precious - Afghan or American! bart :rose:
Invade a way? Kill how many more people? And then feed the rest? How very practical! Kill someone's brother and sister etc and then feed him? U know what, he will take your food and turn around and bomb u tomorrow! That is a sure way to create more terrorists. Pakistan has closed it's borders to a flood of refugees. I am advocating that the US go through that border ( which constitutes invasion, they would be uninvited on an other countries soil ), and set up an armed force to protect the people there and themselves, and then feed the people who are starving on the border. Thus they would win the friendship of people who have suffered under the Taliban, and maybe even satisfy the US bashers on this forum. I doubt they could achieve the latter though. Why do u advocate this? Remember, life is precious - Afghan or American! Yeah, that's exactly the point I was trying to make. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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Yes, it is proof that the Taliban is either lying or incredibly stupid. As has been said already, often proof cannot be revealed without revealing the source. Do you think the US will tar & feather Bin Laden, or torture him ? You think he wouldn't get a trial ? You must be joking, the US would be feeling the eyes of the world on them if they had him in jail. You should not flame anyone who expresses a contrary opinion to yours! If you read my original post you will see that you actually agree with me without realising that! You think I flamed you ? You must be joking, you ain't seen nothin' if you want to start a flame war. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
You think I flamed you ? You must be joking, you ain't seen nothin' if you want to start a flame war. Take your pick: 1, "Linux is better that Windowze" 2, "Women are better than men" 3, "Mine is bigger than yours" ;P
:bob: -=:bob:=-
David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
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Invade a way? Kill how many more people? And then feed the rest? How very practical! Kill someone's brother and sister etc and then feed him? U know what, he will take your food and turn around and bomb u tomorrow! That is a sure way to create more terrorists. Pakistan has closed it's borders to a flood of refugees. I am advocating that the US go through that border ( which constitutes invasion, they would be uninvited on an other countries soil ), and set up an armed force to protect the people there and themselves, and then feed the people who are starving on the border. Thus they would win the friendship of people who have suffered under the Taliban, and maybe even satisfy the US bashers on this forum. I doubt they could achieve the latter though. Why do u advocate this? Remember, life is precious - Afghan or American! Yeah, that's exactly the point I was trying to make. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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What on earth for? The UN are doing that. Why risk American soldiers in this way? Is that what the mobilisation was for? Will that help the current situation and find out who did it? :confused:
Because the Taliban is calling it's people to holy war. If the US does this, they will save lives on both sides, and they will have little trouble in wandering into the country to get ahold of the Taliban leaders and/or Bin Laden. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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So u think telling the Taliban 'Trust me, hand him over, I know he is guilty but I cannot tell u why. He will get a fair trail etc' is good enough? Remember this man fought for Afghanistan against the Russians and is some kind of hero. I have heard of quite a few miscarriages of justice! The legal system is not infallible.
Yeah, right. I see it now. The US should have, for example, asked the Mafia to hand over Al Capone and revealed all the sources they had IN the Mafia, knowing they would be treated fairly. I know it's a bit different, but it's a lot the same. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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Yeah, right. I see it now. The US should have, for example, asked the Mafia to hand over Al Capone and revealed all the sources they had IN the Mafia, knowing they would be treated fairly. I know it's a bit different, but it's a lot the same. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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Because the Taliban is calling it's people to holy war. If the US does this, they will save lives on both sides, and they will have little trouble in wandering into the country to get ahold of the Taliban leaders and/or Bin Laden. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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Give me ONE instance when a country has handed over a SUSPECT without any proof being submitted! Please hurry - can't wait!