sub-humans at it again

Terry ONolley

Mike Gaskey wrote: they should borrow a couple of MOABs and put them to use I'll bet they make pretty colors when they go off.......

Terry ONolley

I concur. I guess that makes it official!

Terry ONolley

Catholics used to believe that. That the priesthood was chosen, etc. Islamic mullahs are descended from Mohammed and they choose their successors - passing on the infallible will of Allah.

Stan Shannon

I don't buy into any of that BS. All of this violence is coming out of their culture. Period. *They* should be doing something about it. If they want me to know something about their religion - let them walk the walk and not just talk the talk. Until then, they can stick their goddamned Koran up their flaming asses where it belongs. David Wulff wrote: That's what religion does: it allows individuals to justify decisions through their own interpretations of its teachings (just look at the bigger groups in Christianity) - but the decisions are up to them to make. Sure, Dave, its all the same thing. We've got Jerry Falwell and they've got bin Ladin - exactly the same. How stupid of me. Good 'ol moral equivalency comes to the rescue again. David Wulff wrote: That I think is probably where we are disagreeing from - you seem to be coming from an 'us' and 'them' standpoint, rather than merely an 'us'. Damn right I am, and proudly so. As soon as they proove to me by their own actions that they believe in the concept of "us", then I will be perfectly willing to meet them half way. David Wulff wrote: That is a major hurdle in this country with immigrants trying to settle here; and that leads to deeper puddles of sh*t than merely going round murdering children. Wow, is your country evil or what? Makes you wonder why they come there in such large numbers eh? Maybe the Muslims can finally teach you guys some civilization. Wait around, I'm sure they will be happy to.

David Wulff

Here's an interesting thought - if the majority of the world follows Islam, surely the ideal of democracy which you hold so tight to your heart dictates that you should submit to their ideals and not the reverse? I don't care about Palestine or Israel in this context, we are talking about the religion of Islam as a whole now. There is not much more I can say to you Stan, your mind is very clearly already set regardless of what *anyone* may say to you, and you have stated that you care not to educate yourself on these issues. All I can tell you is that I *personally* spoke with the Imam of my local Mosque about the ideals of Islam and what it stands for where the two main followings are concerned, and he took great care (and pride, if that means anything to you) to ensure that I understood. He even invited me to kneel in front of Mecca, something which had great significance to him. This may have been a few months before the whole of Islam was once again dragged through our Western mud with the events of September 2001 and thereafter, but the views of the vocal minority like yourself had not had any effect on those ideals when he was interviewed by the local media after some racist shit threw severed pig heads though their Mosque windows not twelve months later. Yes, I freely admit to having taken that attack personally, even though I do not submit to the beliefs of any religion, because having experienced that hospitality from a community of total strangers that I have yet to see mirrored elsewhere I find it utterly abhorable that anybody could stand to slander their name; their culture; their beliefs, yet hold no wish to understand them. And here's the clincher Stan - that anybody is Usama Bin Laden, that anybody is the latest Islamic Jihad bomber, that anybody is the racist shit who committed a human-rights violation when he vandalised that Mosque, and, Stan, that anybody is you. You ought to move to Britain - the BNP[^] are growing really short of people with views as strong as yours. :|

David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum

"I live very much in the

peterchen

I only wish palis and Israelis would for once smoke the same weed.

"Vierteile den, der sie Hure schimpft mit einem türkischen Säbel."
sighist | Agile Programming | doxygen

peterchen

Stan Shannon wrote: The point is that Islam is a culture of voilence, hatred and intolerance, and becomeing increasingly more so. "He's as blind as he can be / sees just what he wants to see" If you judge a country by the one who shouts loudest, the US is a dam ugly and scary place.

"Vierteile den, der sie Hure schimpft mit einem türkischen Säbel."
sighist | Agile Programming | doxygen

Stan Shannon

Dave, the frustrating irony here is that I am the one trying to defend the hard won principles of my civilization, such as cultural, religious, racial and especially gender tolerance against a culture which shows every sign of being hostile to those values. I believe in multiculuralism, I just add my own culture to the list. While you, on the other hand, have entirely misinterpreted those principles to mean that we, as westerners are the only ones capable of evil and are, for some bizarre reason required to bend over and accept what ever these wonderful Islamic prophets want to teach us. I'm no racist, and I would never stoop to acts of terrorism of any kind. All I ask is that these guys show me the courage of their convections and to help fight the evil that is spewing out of their culture, not to read passages to me out of some fucking book. You, on the other hand, are a racist. But you suffer from a bizarre modern form of racism that simply blinds you to the possibility that your own culture is, in fact, threatened by a real evil. But you have simply been conditioned to view even the most humble and modest effort to defend that culture as inherently evil. At the very least, you need to demand as much from your Muslim buddy as you demand of me. Or, maybe, you just don't believe Arabs are capable of such advanced intellectual feats. If your friend believes so strongly in his religion why isn't he back home fighting to defend its true meaning rather than trying to convert you? Seems rather cowardly of him to me. Until guys like you get your heads on straight, organizations like the BNP are unfortunantly going to be the last resort of our civilization. "I don't do nothin I'm no good at..."

David Wulff

I accept all too well that there are areas of certain cultures that breed such things as we have seen in this discussion, but tarring them all with the same brush is what I object to. Surely you can see the same parallels here to the USA? You are one of the first people to jump up and say that the actions of the few are not representative of your entire culture, yet seem to be the first to hand it out when the tables are turned? :confused: I say it has everything to do with the areas and conditions these people live in, and nothing to do with whatever religion happens to be regionally popular. FWIW, our local Imam is very vocal in raising people to oust the extremists destroying his faith, but as seems to be your tone you are blind from the possibility that, in fact, other people do actually care a damn what happens to our ideals. I know!! The cheek of them!! And he lives in our country too!! :sigh:

David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum

"I live very much in the real world, it's just not the same world shared by most other people"

Stan Shannon

David Wulff wrote: Surely you can see the same parallels here to the USA? You are one of the first people to jump up and say that the actions of the few are not representative of your entire culture, yet seem to be the first to hand it out when the tables are turned? Those are precisely the kinds of statements that drive me up the wall. My country, as yours, as a matter of course hunts down and punishes those extremists who act on their believes. We, as a culture, collectively, overwhelmingly, reject and punish those who cross the line into fanatic violence. For the better part of 200 years we have sacrificed millions of our citizens to fight and destory the evils that have emerged from our culture. I demand precisely the same commitment from the Arab world againt those who plague their society. When they, by the millions, are out hunting down their bin Ladins, then I will accept them as cultural equals. Until such time, I hold them all equally guilty. So, no, I see no parallels whatsoever. I require them to measure up to my standards, I refuse to measure up to theirs, because they have none. David Wulff wrote: FWIW, our local Imam is very vocal in raising people to oust the extremists destroying his faith, but as seems to be your tone you are blind from the possibility that, in fact, other people do actually care a damn what happens to our ideals. I know!! The cheek of them!! And he lives in our country too! I will be happy to be proven wrong, but I deeply suspect your Imam is nothing more than a recruter for his cause. He sees you as nothing more than someone who has lost all faith in his own culture and all too ready to embrace his. Get used to that kneeling position. "I don't do nothin I'm no good at..."

Bilal Naveed

A thread long dead, but I just couldn't let this post go. Mullahs are not descended etc and they're not chosen. Unfortunately, these are people who could not secure admission into the mainstream institutions and joined the madrassas - learned enough to become relative "experts" and now dictate to the rest of us based on their weak understanding. There are many many enlightened mullahs, and non-religious minded people like me are only beginning to sift through the muck of bad apples to find out who to really listen to and who to ignore, thanx largely to the mess created in our religion's "name" but certainly NOT endorsed by it. Your discussions in this thread have been fascinating as it crystallizes how nation-states are evaluated and there is both a) plenty of reason for Muslims to be ashamed of their incompetence and letting the religion appear degraded as now, and b) plenty of misinformation about what Islam really is and who Muslims really are. There are people who will go out and learn, and there are people who have already made up their minds and will not change them until the Muslims make the effort (or that effort becomes substantive) to change them. I can not apologize for those who kill in the name of Islam because Islam does not condone killing no matter how twisted your interpretations (or our interpretations) of its teachings are. The point is, there aren't enough true followers out there such that Islam can be blanket-blamed. I can just pray that soon there will be and this world will begin to heal, Amen.

David Wulff

Sorry about the gap - damned sleep time got in the way! ;P :-O Stan Shannon wrote: I demand precisely the same commitment from the Arab world againt those who plague their society. When they, by the millions, are out hunting down their bin Ladins, then I will accept them as cultural equals. Until such time, I hold them all equally guilty. So, no, I see no parallels whatsoever. I require them to measure up to my standards, I refuse to measure up to theirs, because they have none Um, would it help to point out that the majority of the Muslim community locally are British born and raised? They are not Arabs any more than you are British, French, or whoever else sits further up your bloodline. That Stan is exactly the 'us' and 'them' attitude I was talking about. The majority of Western Muslims are - shock horror!! - western citizens! I dare to say those that are vocal in pushing for these extremists to stop bringing certain areas of our cultures down around them are doing a hell of a lot more than most of us would do, and are doing or have doen, in similar circumstances. Stan Shannon wrote: I will be happy to be proven wrong, but I deeply suspect your Imam is nothing more than a recruter for his cause. He sees you as nothing more than someone who has lost all faith in his own culture and all too ready to embrace his. Get used to that kneeling position. I politely declined to kneel as it was not for me, but I do know you are wrong in your statement. He didn't know me - that is nine-tenths of the point.

David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum

"I live very much in the real world, it's just not the same world shared by most other people"

Mike Gaskey

Terry O`Nolley wrote: I guess that makes it official! yep! Mike

Mike Gaskey

Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: I know there are people in the south of the US who just loves dragging colored people behind their trucks. They're not colored, they're black. And you don't know them. But by the way, they were caught, convicted and sentenced - by their neighbors, peers. I defy you to find were these sub-humans have done anything remotely equivalent. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: And how the hell would that be possible? Israel wouldn't let them. You can't just declare a nation within the borders of another nation. "You" declare it, go to that useless fucking debating society (you call it the UN) and whine, all 52 fucking raghead nations recognize you + plus China + the weak kneed French, and you get what you say you want. You honestly think it would work any different? Mike

Anonymous

Mike Gaskey wrote: Allow? I'm pretty sure we didn't ask Englands permission. These people to weak to actually declare what they want? :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: That's a good joke. Without American support,how long do you think Israel is going to last?

Mike Gaskey

Anonymous wrote: Without American support,how long do you think Israel is going to last? It is a moot point, they'll always have our support. Mike

Mike Gaskey

Well done. If I heard more voices like yours my mind would surely be changed. 9/11 instilled and cemented a resentment, distrust and even a hate in many, myself included. But if I heard more like yourself I suspect things would be a lot different. Mike

jan larsen

First: It is not the fence building as such that pisses people off, it is the fence being build on other peoples territory. Secondly: Israel shouldn't 'allow' anyone to create a state in a territory that is not in any way Israels, it is not their goddamn right to have any saying in the matter. And lastly: If Israel really wanted peace they wouldn't give the other terrorists a right to veto the negotiations. What they really want can be deduced by their actions... "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies "For example, when a VB programmer comes to my house, they may say 'does your pool need cleaning, sir ?' " - Christian Graus