sub-humans at it again

Mike Gaskey

yes! Mike

Terry ONolley

KaЯl wrote: I don't side with any of them, neither palestinian no israeli. neither on the side of the killers of 900 israeli, nor on the side of the killers of 3000 palestinian You can claim you don't support the terrorists, but every comment you make shows your true feelings. Take this little nugget above. You make a point to show that Israel has killed more Palestinians. You don't tell the real story - the Israelis killed were mostly innocents - murdered by terrorists. The palestinians were mainly killed in military operations against terrorists.

KaRl

You took it the wrong way.

New, what do you own the world? How do you own disorder?

KaRl

Terry O`Nolley wrote: but every comment you make shows your true feelings So we have another Freud there. Terry O`Nolley wrote: You make a point to show that Israel has killed more Palestinians I make a point that on both sides innocent where killed. Terry O`Nolley wrote: The palestinians were mainly killed in military operations against terrorists. Exact figures? Or is it just another affirmation?

New, what do you own the world? How do you own disorder?

KaRl

Mike Gaskey wrote: you just don't like it I didn't argue about this solution because for the moment I have no firm opinion about it. I just don't see how a formal declaration of statehood could change the situation. Do you think the US and Israel are ready to recognize such a state? :confused:

New, what do you own the world? How do you own disorder?

Mike Gaskey

KaЯl wrote: Do you think the US and Israel are ready to recognize such a state? The US would be one of the last, then Israel. The point is, once it is declared the rest of the world has no choice - especially given what I believe to be the majority of world opinion. Mike

KaRl

Mike Gaskey wrote: The point is, once it is declared the rest of the world has no choice I don't understand. No choice of what? Recognize a palestinian state? COuld you please also develop why an official declaration of statehood would solve the problem?

New, what do you own the world? How do you own disorder?

Stan Shannon

How many do I need to know? If I knew a thousand and they were all the nicest people on the planet what significance would that have? My first thought would be: "Geez, if you people are so nice why don't you go back to your own contries and take care of those murderous bastards that are killing in the name of your religion." The fact that they don't seem inclined to do that tells me every thing I need to know about "nice" Muslims. Sorry, but I'm just not inclined to be generous towards such people. I want them to proove to me that they are worthy of my civilization, because it is lightyears better than their's.

Mike Gaskey

KaЯl wrote: No choice of what? Recognize a palestinian state? precisely. KaЯl wrote: why an official declaration of statehood would solve the problem? puts everything on a different plane. A physcological gambit that I believe works for the Palestinians, as long as they stop the terror. It then all comes down to negotiations that would be monitored by the rest of the world. At that point warriors no longer have a role, Arafat and Sharon and similar types are marginalized and it is a diplomatic game from then on. Mike

David Wulff

Stan Shannon wrote: How many do I need to know? Just one would be enough, and then you may actually be able to gain an understanding for the basis of their religion that did not come from CNN. :| Go on a visit to your local Mosque - they will be more than happy to welcome you in and answer all the questions you may have. I didn't want to have to say this because I find it astonishing it even needs mentioning, but doing something in the name of a religion and doing something as disposed through a religion are not the same thing. I should not need to remind anyone that every atrocity and every war ever fought has been done in the name of one religion or ideal or another by people with strength of belief on par with those in the limelight today. That's what religion does: it allows individuals to justify decisions through their own interpretations of its teachings (just look at the bigger groups in Christianity) - but the decisions are up to them to make. Stan Shannon wrote: My first thought would be: "Geez, if you people are so nice why don't you go back to your own contries and take care of those murderous bastards that are killing in the name of your religion." That I think is probably where we are disagreeing from - you seem to be coming from an 'us' and 'them' standpoint, rather than merely an 'us'. That is a major hurdle in this country with immigrants trying to settle here; and that leads to deeper puddles of shit than merely going round murdering children. :(

David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum

"I live very much in the real world, it's just not the same world shared by most other people"

Chris Losinger

Terry O`Nolley wrote: the mullahs are beieved to be endowed with holy powers, anything they say carries the weight of god. how unusual. i can't think of any other religion that works like that. ImgSource | CheeseWeasle

Terry ONolley

KaЯl wrote: I just don't see how a formal declaration of statehood could change the situation. If the Palestinians accepted their borders, renounced terrorism, acknowledged Israel's right to exist and then declared statehood a lot of nations would recognize their existence. KaЯl wrote: Do you think the US and Israel are ready to recognize such a state? First off, it wouldn't matter. Such an issue would be settled in the general assembly of the UN, not the security council. I have no doubt that membership to the UN would be granted to the new state of Palestine. Israel and the US's choice to not recognize that state would have no bearing on the matter. But I believe that Israel and the US would recognize such a state because to not do so would look quite bad - seeing as that is what we have been trying to accomplish for decades. The only ones who don't want a Palestinian state that recognizes Israel's right to exist are Iran, Syria, Libya, Egypt and a minority of the Palestinians who are terrorists.

Terry ONolley

Mike Gaskey wrote: The real fact is the Palestinians DO NOT WANT A NATION, they want the death of Israeli. And the Palestinians are merely meat-puppet marionettes whose mouths are being moved by Iranians and Syrians.

Terry ONolley

David Wulff wrote: That I think is probably where we are disagreeing from - you seem to be coming from an 'us' and 'them' standpoint, rather than merely an 'us'. That is a major hurdle in this country with immigrants trying to settle here; and that leads to deeper puddles of sh*t than merely going round murdering children I think "merely" murdering children is worse than being suspicious of a religious group who commits terrorist acts every day in the name of that religion.

David Wulff

People are murdered, children too if you like emotive language... should we tackle the effects or the cause? Suspicion, a lack of trust, destroys far more lives than bullets and bombs.

David Wulff The Royal Woofle Museum

"I live very much in the real world, it's just not the same world shared by most other people"

KaRl

Terry O`Nolley wrote: If the Palestinians accepted their borders The ones drawn by Israel? Terry O`Nolley wrote: acknowledged Israel's right to exist They already have. Terry O`Nolley wrote: renounced terrorism They should Terry O`Nolley wrote: I believe that Israel and the US would recognize such a state because to not do so would look quite bad the Israeli governement doesn't want a palestinian state: "All of this is achievable only if we stop expressing any agreement for a Palestinian state in wide swaths of Judea, Samaria, and Gaza. There must not be a state such as this, and therefore, there must not be any talk encouraging it. Local leaders with local autonomy, yes. But a state? No! " Terry O`Nolley wrote: minority of the Palestinians who are terrorists. These ones really believe they are winning the war and don't understand their are crushing their cause.

New, what do you own the world? How do you own disorder?

Jorgen Sigvardsson

Mike Gaskey wrote: 1) Palestinians do not want a nation, they want the death of Israel Uhm. Now you're generalizing quite a bit! I know there are people in the south of the US who just loves dragging colored people behind their trucks. Am I to believe that all white people in the US loves doing this? Have you ever talked to a palestinian? Most of them just wants to go about their own business, just like you do every day. But they can't! And some of these people resort to extreme violence. If the US was equivalent to Palestinia, and Canadia was Israel, I'm sure terrorist cells would pop up everywhere in the US. Mike Gaskey wrote: 2) Palestinians could have their own nation simply by declaring it And how the hell would that be possible? Israel wouldn't let them. You can't just declare a nation within the borders of another nation. -- Stukas! Stukas im Visier!

Terry ONolley

KaЯl wrote: Defend their people, yes, help the settlers, no. I agree with this. Israel's settlement activity has always disturbed me. It erodes their credibility. Israel should leave the occupied territories, remove all settlements and finish that fence. THey should help push for Palestinian statehood so that when the next terrorist blows up an Israeli day-care center they can declare war on Palestine and finish it once and for all.

KaRl

So why what that refused by Clinton? :confused: http://www.focus-on-israel.org/news144.htm[^] "In the clearest terms since the meltdown at Camp David, Arafat reiterated during a stopover in Saudi Arabia that he will declare a Palestinian state next month despite threats and objections from the US [...] Clinton also has been personally lobbying European Union members not to give the Palestinians a green light for statehood by pledging to recognize it [...]

New, what do you own the world? How do you own disorder?

Mike Gaskey

KaЯl wrote: So why what that refused by Clinton? Wrong question. The question should be, "why didn't Arafat do it?" The answer is encapsulated in my earlier statements. The Palestinians, leadership at lest, have no desire to do anything except wipe out Israel. As long as that is true, Israel has my support, the support of the US government and I would guess a majority of Americans. Frankly, I would applaud the most drastic action possible on the part of Israelis from today on. My statement, "sub-humans" was not chosen lightly. Mike