Anybody here worried about their job?
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I'm a C# programmer. I work for a small company doing web applications for a user base of about 4000. I love what I do, and it took me a good long time to learn this craft. I have much more to learn. But I can't help but feel I'm wasting time. I'm in my 30's, and if this career is going to die, then I should probably be trying to figure out another career. But what? Is death of IT inevitable? Am I worrying needlessly? What are you guys doing to hedge against collapse of IT as a career option here in the US? :confused: Thanks for listening. I look forward to your replies.
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I'm a C# programmer. I work for a small company doing web applications for a user base of about 4000. I love what I do, and it took me a good long time to learn this craft. I have much more to learn. But I can't help but feel I'm wasting time. I'm in my 30's, and if this career is going to die, then I should probably be trying to figure out another career. But what? Is death of IT inevitable? Am I worrying needlessly? What are you guys doing to hedge against collapse of IT as a career option here in the US? :confused: Thanks for listening. I look forward to your replies.
sharkfish wrote: What are you guys doing to hedge against collapse of IT as a career option here in the US? just whistle a happy tune. nothing bad will ever happen. ImgSource | CheeseWeasle
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I'm a C# programmer. I work for a small company doing web applications for a user base of about 4000. I love what I do, and it took me a good long time to learn this craft. I have much more to learn. But I can't help but feel I'm wasting time. I'm in my 30's, and if this career is going to die, then I should probably be trying to figure out another career. But what? Is death of IT inevitable? Am I worrying needlessly? What are you guys doing to hedge against collapse of IT as a career option here in the US? :confused: Thanks for listening. I look forward to your replies.
[serious] I think as time passes the average developer is becoming more devalued. There will always be some guys raking in the better bucks for bleeding edge stuff, but the average inhouse programmer will be worth less in general. Lets face it a lot more work will soon be outsourced to India and remaining competitive in the Western world will be increasingly difficult. Depending on your skill-set and tastes I suggest that you consider a somewhat sideways shift into a field that can not be outsourced with ease, and has a tendency to grow. Let programming become just another ability that you have, and can use in that new field. As for me, I have sort of done that now, and am wondering at the profitability of continuing to create my own apps. Hell I can outsource them as well and spend more time in R&D and marketing where what was an expenditure now becomes an investment, with a multifold factor. [/serious] Regardz Colin J Davies
*** WARNING *
This could be addictive
**The minion's version of "Catch :bob: "It's a real shame that people as stupid as you can work out how to use a computer. said by Christian Graus in the Soapbox
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I'm a C# programmer. I work for a small company doing web applications for a user base of about 4000. I love what I do, and it took me a good long time to learn this craft. I have much more to learn. But I can't help but feel I'm wasting time. I'm in my 30's, and if this career is going to die, then I should probably be trying to figure out another career. But what? Is death of IT inevitable? Am I worrying needlessly? What are you guys doing to hedge against collapse of IT as a career option here in the US? :confused: Thanks for listening. I look forward to your replies.
f**ck yes I'm worried !!! I started my computer career at tail-end of mainframe era & switched to pc's after a few years. Back then MS was just a gleam in 2 greedy guy's eyes and IBM had ruled the planet for the past 25 years. Yes that's 25 years. OS/360 JCL MVS TSO assembler VSAM A hi-speed modem was 9600 bits/second most people had 300 baud modems and that was fine !! So the pc's came along the evolutionary path which really increased the need for people to work in computer industry. Believe or not at one time, computer hardware was SO EXPENSIVE that computer time was scheduled weeks & months in advance so you really had to plan your card deck runs to get as much done as possible Anyway a huge number of people got into the computer field because of mind-bending demand for growth in PC industry and then the internet came along which caused another explosion in growth.... And as they say now, that's all history !!!!!!!!!!! So I'm unemployed waiting for some jobs to open up.... I think the computer industry is getting back to where it was pre-internet days, ie. just another high-paying job in engineering. IMHO it will be awhile before geeks are cool again & making money just by showing up somewhere as opposed to really having to work against tough competition My advice is keep your nose to the grindstone, don't complain, save your money, keep the low-budget lifestyle & GO FOR IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I'm a C# programmer. I work for a small company doing web applications for a user base of about 4000. I love what I do, and it took me a good long time to learn this craft. I have much more to learn. But I can't help but feel I'm wasting time. I'm in my 30's, and if this career is going to die, then I should probably be trying to figure out another career. But what? Is death of IT inevitable? Am I worrying needlessly? What are you guys doing to hedge against collapse of IT as a career option here in the US? :confused: Thanks for listening. I look forward to your replies.
sharkfish wrote: What are you guys doing to hedge against collapse of IT as a career option here in the US? Enjoying it while it lasts. Let's face it - any task i have now is transient. It is extremely unlikely i'll be hand tuning HTML and XSLT in 10yrs. It's almost as unlikely i'll be working with C++ and MFC. These things are useful now, but as time goes by they will be relegated to maintenance roles, and then replaced. It seems this is the nature of our occupation. But that's ok. I'm having fun, but i'll be glad to see this go, in time. Maybe it will lead to something else, maybe not. I know now though, that my back and my wrists are in nearly as bad of shape as they were when i was stacking pallets in a warehouse. My free time is no more than when i was mucking out cattle pens and working in the fields. My meals are no better than when i grew my own food. This job, love it though i do, isn't the beginning for me, nor is it the end. It's what i do now, to entertain myself, and to pay for daily sustenance and the little luxuries. Whether pounding on the keyboard, or sweeping floors, i'll be working 'till the day comes when my hands refuse to do my biding, and my mind wanders off to wherever it's been trying to go. I find comfort in this.
Shog9 --
Exchanging a walk-on part in the War
for the lead role in a Cage
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I'm a C# programmer. I work for a small company doing web applications for a user base of about 4000. I love what I do, and it took me a good long time to learn this craft. I have much more to learn. But I can't help but feel I'm wasting time. I'm in my 30's, and if this career is going to die, then I should probably be trying to figure out another career. But what? Is death of IT inevitable? Am I worrying needlessly? What are you guys doing to hedge against collapse of IT as a career option here in the US? :confused: Thanks for listening. I look forward to your replies.
As I am getting ready to apply for a 30 year mortgage I thought about it a lot. I work in government funded medical research and my bosses who hold the division together will not be working in 30 years so I will have to find a new job sometime in the future. I know my job is secure as long as our division exists though... John
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I'm a C# programmer. I work for a small company doing web applications for a user base of about 4000. I love what I do, and it took me a good long time to learn this craft. I have much more to learn. But I can't help but feel I'm wasting time. I'm in my 30's, and if this career is going to die, then I should probably be trying to figure out another career. But what? Is death of IT inevitable? Am I worrying needlessly? What are you guys doing to hedge against collapse of IT as a career option here in the US? :confused: Thanks for listening. I look forward to your replies.
sharkfish wrote: But I can't help but feel I'm wasting time. I'm in my 30's, and if this career is going to die, then I should probably be trying to figure out another career. What MBTI personality[^] are you? Just go down this list until your master one and then move to the next:-D http://www.intp.org/job.html[^] Later, JoeSox
"I don't question, our existence I just question, our modern needs" - Pearl Jam Garden www.joeswammi.com www.humanaiproject.org -
As I am getting ready to apply for a 30 year mortgage I thought about it a lot. I work in government funded medical research and my bosses who hold the division together will not be working in 30 years so I will have to find a new job sometime in the future. I know my job is secure as long as our division exists though... John
A few days ago a supposedly big US Pharma Monkey complained that in Germany drugs are to cheap, and we should make them more expensive so the Pharma industry hasmore money to, uh, "fund research" His point was that if we benefit from US medical research, we should pay (more) for it. Is this just a capitalist on dope, or does he have reasons? ----- as for the mortgage - that's exactly the question you must answer: Do you want to enslave yourself for the joy of ownership?
"Vierteile den, der sie Hure schimpft mit einem türkischen Säbel."
sighist | Agile Programming | doxygen -
I'm a C# programmer. I work for a small company doing web applications for a user base of about 4000. I love what I do, and it took me a good long time to learn this craft. I have much more to learn. But I can't help but feel I'm wasting time. I'm in my 30's, and if this career is going to die, then I should probably be trying to figure out another career. But what? Is death of IT inevitable? Am I worrying needlessly? What are you guys doing to hedge against collapse of IT as a career option here in the US? :confused: Thanks for listening. I look forward to your replies.
As far as my position goes, I'm not terribly worried. My company could outsource overseas, but they'd be stupid to think that they can just drop someone into my position and get a return on their investment. I bring a lot of creativity to my job (I do a lot of UI work), and find ways to make things attractive and easy for the users. (Read: Customers are more likely to be impressed and buy the product. They also enjoy using the product.) My company knows that you can't just grab any old developer, put them into that position, and get good work in that area. So, even if they saved $40,000 a year on outsourcing my position, there's simply no doubt that it would cost them a lot more than that in the long run. The lesson here is: find a way to make yourself essential. That doesn't mean doing something sneaky so your boss can't get rid of you. It means producing something of value that can't be easily replicated. Some developers are "generic" and can be replaced. Others bring more to their job than can be easily outsourced. Remember: John Carmack will never have his job outsourced - there's a reason for that. None of that protects me if the company goes under, however. I'm sure I could get some good references, though. Second, live below your means. Personally, I dislike being in debt, so I have an added incentive to pay it off early. I push lots of money into my retirement (which I'd rather not touch, but if I really needed it, I could take the tax penalties and pull it out). I'm also six months ahead of schedule on my car payments, which would give me some breathing room if I suddenly lost my job. ------------------------------------------ The ousted but stubbornly non-dead leader reportedly released an audiotape this weekend, ending by calling on Iraqis to, quote, "resist the occupation in any way you can, from writing on walls, to boycotting, to demonstrating and taking up arms." adding, "you know, pretty much anything I used to kill you for." - The Daily Show
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A few days ago a supposedly big US Pharma Monkey complained that in Germany drugs are to cheap, and we should make them more expensive so the Pharma industry hasmore money to, uh, "fund research" His point was that if we benefit from US medical research, we should pay (more) for it. Is this just a capitalist on dope, or does he have reasons? ----- as for the mortgage - that's exactly the question you must answer: Do you want to enslave yourself for the joy of ownership?
"Vierteile den, der sie Hure schimpft mit einem türkischen Säbel."
sighist | Agile Programming | doxygenAs for prescription drugs it is a complicated issue. Drug companies charge Americans many times the cost producing of a drug so that they can use it for future research which is very expensive. It costs 100s of millions or more to research, develop and market a single drug and many drugs are found to be ineffective and don't recoup any of the cost of development. Drug companies hold exclusive rights to sell a new drug for a few years. During that time they charge several hundred times what it cost to produce the drugs to make up for cost of research of that and other drugs. After that time expires other companies are given the right to produce the same drug and they generally do so and sell it at a much reduced cost. I think the reason why this comes up is there has been discussion for some time about legislation to reduce what the companies are charging for these drugs because the cost is very hard on the older population and people with serious illness. John
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A few days ago a supposedly big US Pharma Monkey complained that in Germany drugs are to cheap, and we should make them more expensive so the Pharma industry hasmore money to, uh, "fund research" His point was that if we benefit from US medical research, we should pay (more) for it. Is this just a capitalist on dope, or does he have reasons? ----- as for the mortgage - that's exactly the question you must answer: Do you want to enslave yourself for the joy of ownership?
"Vierteile den, der sie Hure schimpft mit einem türkischen Säbel."
sighist | Agile Programming | doxygenpeterchen wrote: as for the mortgage - that's exactly the question you must answer: Do you want to enslave yourself for the joy of ownership? This again is not a simple issue. If you rent you generally pay 75% to 150% or more per month what you would pay with a monthly mortgage payment for the same house. After two or three years of renting this does not make a lot of sense because all the money you pay in rent goes down the drain. As a homeowner you will probably make a profit on your home in the long run as property values mostly go up. Taxes and repairs and other fees complicate this a little bit though... John
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sharkfish wrote: But I can't help but feel I'm wasting time. I'm in my 30's, and if this career is going to die, then I should probably be trying to figure out another career. What MBTI personality[^] are you? Just go down this list until your master one and then move to the next:-D http://www.intp.org/job.html[^] Later, JoeSox
"I don't question, our existence I just question, our modern needs" - Pearl Jam Garden www.joeswammi.com www.humanaiproject.orgJoeSox wrote: Just go down this list until your master one and then move to the next Exactly. While I can't speak for the rest of you guys, I know that if I was in the position of not being able to find IT work, I'd find something else to do, because I'm intelligent, and capable, and therefore can adapt. It seems to me that the people complaining the most about outsourcing IT jobs (note: I can appreciate a certain amount of concern over the pace of some outsourcing) are most likely the sort of people I'd not want working with me on IT projects anyway - not enough ability to think their way out of (employment) problems - and that's what we bloody well do for a living - think! If I can't think my way around those useless buggers who mismanage our companies and governments to the point they have to find cheaper labour sources abroad to keep themselves in Dom Perignon, then I might as well give up now! As it is, I believe I can always find work that requires my brain power, so I believe I can always find reasonably paid IT work, or failing that, something else equally intellectually challenging. -- Ian Darling "The moral of the story is that with a contrived example, you can prove anything." - Joel Spolsky
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sharkfish wrote: What are you guys doing to hedge against collapse of IT as a career option here in the US? Enjoying it while it lasts. Let's face it - any task i have now is transient. It is extremely unlikely i'll be hand tuning HTML and XSLT in 10yrs. It's almost as unlikely i'll be working with C++ and MFC. These things are useful now, but as time goes by they will be relegated to maintenance roles, and then replaced. It seems this is the nature of our occupation. But that's ok. I'm having fun, but i'll be glad to see this go, in time. Maybe it will lead to something else, maybe not. I know now though, that my back and my wrists are in nearly as bad of shape as they were when i was stacking pallets in a warehouse. My free time is no more than when i was mucking out cattle pens and working in the fields. My meals are no better than when i grew my own food. This job, love it though i do, isn't the beginning for me, nor is it the end. It's what i do now, to entertain myself, and to pay for daily sustenance and the little luxuries. Whether pounding on the keyboard, or sweeping floors, i'll be working 'till the day comes when my hands refuse to do my biding, and my mind wanders off to wherever it's been trying to go. I find comfort in this.
Shog9 --
Exchanging a walk-on part in the War
for the lead role in a Cage
Ah, Cat Stevens... Moonshadow. He decided at some point to get off the Star Machine and become a monk. What a loss to music; I can only hope that it was a gain for spirituality. Sad Lisa, Wild World.... I miss him so...:sigh: "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot." -
Ah, Cat Stevens... Moonshadow. He decided at some point to get off the Star Machine and become a monk. What a loss to music; I can only hope that it was a gain for spirituality. Sad Lisa, Wild World.... I miss him so...:sigh: "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot."We will agree to disagree about the merits (or otherwise) of Cat Stevens :-) Rob Manderson http://www.mindprobes.net You have an eight-ball and Tommy wants to buy two grams. You bought the eight-ball with a quarter-bag of grass, two reds, a six-pack of Old Milwaukie, and $4 in change. You want a profit margin of 35%. How much hash should you get from Tommy for your blow? - Roger Wright
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I'm a C# programmer. I work for a small company doing web applications for a user base of about 4000. I love what I do, and it took me a good long time to learn this craft. I have much more to learn. But I can't help but feel I'm wasting time. I'm in my 30's, and if this career is going to die, then I should probably be trying to figure out another career. But what? Is death of IT inevitable? Am I worrying needlessly? What are you guys doing to hedge against collapse of IT as a career option here in the US? :confused: Thanks for listening. I look forward to your replies.
Firstly I don't currently have a job so I'm not worried about it per se. But I am looking for a job. I'm pretty much decided that I don't want to go back into the IT world. I don't want to be a sysadmin. I don't want to write code because I must - I'd rather write it because I want to write it. I particularly don't want to have to wear a suit and tie to satisfy some power freaks control agenda (unless I'm dealing with other suits)* So what am I looking for? The idea of working at the local video library is strangely appealing. At age 49 I accept that my highest earning years are probably already behind me and, frankly, I won't miss them. * the trick with dealing with suits is to picture them naked (yeah I know it's a horrible image but bear with me). Go to any reasonably busy city centre and sit in the lobby of an office building during lunch hour and then swear with a straight face that ANY of the suits impressed you. Monkeys with expensive coiffure, mobile phones and paunches - ye gods the paunches!! Rob Manderson http://www.mindprobes.net You have an eight-ball and Tommy wants to buy two grams. You bought the eight-ball with a quarter-bag of grass, two reds, a six-pack of Old Milwaukie, and $4 in change. You want a profit margin of 35%. How much hash should you get from Tommy for your blow? - Roger Wright
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As for prescription drugs it is a complicated issue. Drug companies charge Americans many times the cost producing of a drug so that they can use it for future research which is very expensive. It costs 100s of millions or more to research, develop and market a single drug and many drugs are found to be ineffective and don't recoup any of the cost of development. Drug companies hold exclusive rights to sell a new drug for a few years. During that time they charge several hundred times what it cost to produce the drugs to make up for cost of research of that and other drugs. After that time expires other companies are given the right to produce the same drug and they generally do so and sell it at a much reduced cost. I think the reason why this comes up is there has been discussion for some time about legislation to reduce what the companies are charging for these drugs because the cost is very hard on the older population and people with serious illness. John
Yeah, Pharmacy is top heavy on R&D. If we want miracle drugs in the future it must stay this way. There are other ways that the industry could be organised, but the pure capitalist approach seems to give the best results. You hear of people for example complaining about the cost of AIDS medications. But if it wasn't for the risky R&D investments of the past, those medications would not even exist. Regardz Colin J Davies
*** WARNING *
This could be addictive
**The minion's version of "Catch :bob: "It's a real shame that people as stupid as you can work out how to use a computer. said by Christian Graus in the Soapbox
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Yeah, Pharmacy is top heavy on R&D. If we want miracle drugs in the future it must stay this way. There are other ways that the industry could be organised, but the pure capitalist approach seems to give the best results. You hear of people for example complaining about the cost of AIDS medications. But if it wasn't for the risky R&D investments of the past, those medications would not even exist. Regardz Colin J Davies
*** WARNING *
This could be addictive
**The minion's version of "Catch :bob: "It's a real shame that people as stupid as you can work out how to use a computer. said by Christian Graus in the Soapbox
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Even if only the richest people can get these drugs and be cured?
New, what do you own the world? How do you own disorder?
KaЯl wrote: Even if only the richest people can get these drugs and be cured? Unfortunately I believe that is the case. Drug companies do not decide that because they spent X million dollars on R&D for a product, how much they will manufacture it for. They calculate the cost of production with inelastic supply and elastic demand to claculate what is the greatest revenue they can create for a particular drug. The revenue from this principally goes to paying investors and continued R&D support. Since we don't want another Thalidomide type disaster R&D projects now probably cost 20 times as much as it would without those concerns. It might take only two years two develop a medicine, however it will take 5 yrs to get authorisation to test it and another 3 yrs to actually test it. Now if the drug company is using patents, they only have a few years to reap the rewards from the new product, before generic manufacturers enter the market. Streamlining the beauracracy in drug testing and approval so less lawyers are involved would probably be the one thing that would slash drug prices to threads quickly. KaЯl wrote: Even if only the richest people can get these drugs and be cured? Only a small fraction of the worlds population can afford to purchase Windows as well. If MS dropped the price of Windows and spend less on R&D, we would have a far more buggy OS, and no LongHorn in the future. Regardz Colin J Davies
*** WARNING *
This could be addictive
**The minion's version of "Catch :bob: "It's a real shame that people as stupid as you can work out how to use a computer. said by Christian Graus in the Soapbox
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I'm a C# programmer. I work for a small company doing web applications for a user base of about 4000. I love what I do, and it took me a good long time to learn this craft. I have much more to learn. But I can't help but feel I'm wasting time. I'm in my 30's, and if this career is going to die, then I should probably be trying to figure out another career. But what? Is death of IT inevitable? Am I worrying needlessly? What are you guys doing to hedge against collapse of IT as a career option here in the US? :confused: Thanks for listening. I look forward to your replies.
My take is that while traditional "Computer Programmers" are becoming devalued, "Software Engineers" are not. Branch into the less code-intensive parts of the software lifecycle, get a degree(important), and I think you'll end up much better in the long run. Jeremy Kimball
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KaЯl wrote: Even if only the richest people can get these drugs and be cured? Unfortunately I believe that is the case. Drug companies do not decide that because they spent X million dollars on R&D for a product, how much they will manufacture it for. They calculate the cost of production with inelastic supply and elastic demand to claculate what is the greatest revenue they can create for a particular drug. The revenue from this principally goes to paying investors and continued R&D support. Since we don't want another Thalidomide type disaster R&D projects now probably cost 20 times as much as it would without those concerns. It might take only two years two develop a medicine, however it will take 5 yrs to get authorisation to test it and another 3 yrs to actually test it. Now if the drug company is using patents, they only have a few years to reap the rewards from the new product, before generic manufacturers enter the market. Streamlining the beauracracy in drug testing and approval so less lawyers are involved would probably be the one thing that would slash drug prices to threads quickly. KaЯl wrote: Even if only the richest people can get these drugs and be cured? Only a small fraction of the worlds population can afford to purchase Windows as well. If MS dropped the price of Windows and spend less on R&D, we would have a far more buggy OS, and no LongHorn in the future. Regardz Colin J Davies
*** WARNING *
This could be addictive
**The minion's version of "Catch :bob: "It's a real shame that people as stupid as you can work out how to use a computer. said by Christian Graus in the Soapbox
I can undertand drugs industries protect their researchs from competitors, but what about the people who aren't able to pay, with or without alternative producers? Isn't the right to live the first of the human rights? ColinDavies wrote: Only a small fraction of the worlds population can afford to purchase Windows as well. First, you can live without Windows, and next, there are free alternatives.
Silence Means Death Stand On Your Feet Inner Fear Your Worst Enemy