Antrax: Maybe someone will be pissed off becoase of this post, but...
-
What is happening now with terrorism, US have acchived in years long interference into other country internal affairs. What do you think, how much pressure is needed to make someone so angry (hopeless?), that he is willing to give his life just to hurt you (oh yeah i know, he is born for terrorist)? Instead of looking for guilt in other countrys like Afghanistan, start to look for an answer in your foreign politic. Dont understand this that i agree with terrorists methods (i am sorry for people that died in WTC :rose:), but what USA is doing around the globe for last 40 years is far worse than what they terrorists did (Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Yugoslavia, Irak; do remember that song "It is all about money"?)! And concerning attacks in Afghanistan; i hardly belive USA gov. will achive anything good for you with bombardment. It would be better to give Afghanistan humanitarian help for money that USA is now throwing on Afg. in form of bombs (...) as it will only make people more poor and more extremists/terrorists will be born from that. Btw i live in Europe, i do not pray Alah, i just think with my own head ;)
So the question is 'why is America stationed in the Middle East?' and 'what would happen if they withdrew?' I've only got a sketchy understanding of the first, and no idea of the second. Maybe by withdrawing and letting the Islamic nations deal with their neighbours things could be settled more amicably. Maybe the nations surrounding Afghanistan or Iraq or whoever wouldn't try to settle things down and with no dampening rods things would get even more crazy. I do agree with you that no matter how justified the reprisals are, the thought of having a foreign power bomb your own soil is bound to be annoying. Add to that the incredible anti-Western propoganda ('The Americans want to destroy Islam') and also the total lack of a decent future that many in that area have, and it's a recipe for a very bitter and very angry group of people who have nothing to do and nothing to live for and a lot of sour resentment (at their own state of affairs, that of their country and 'leaders', and at the frightening and totally demoralising attacks on their homeland). These guys have wars in the same way Canadians play hockey. The have long memories, are proud, and probably also very scared and very determined. If we could only sit down with every single person in that area of the world and say 'We don't want to hurt you! We just want to help you get your country back on it's feet, stop a man from endangering world peace, give you freedom, and let you practice your life and religion in peace and security. BTW, have some food' and if we all sat down and had them explain what they are thinking and feeling, then things would cool down pretty quickly. Violence begets violence. As Gandhi said, "An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind". cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject)
-
What is happening now with terrorism, US have acchived in years long interference into other country internal affairs. What do you think, how much pressure is needed to make someone so angry (hopeless?), that he is willing to give his life just to hurt you (oh yeah i know, he is born for terrorist)? Instead of looking for guilt in other countrys like Afghanistan, start to look for an answer in your foreign politic. Dont understand this that i agree with terrorists methods (i am sorry for people that died in WTC :rose:), but what USA is doing around the globe for last 40 years is far worse than what they terrorists did (Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Yugoslavia, Irak; do remember that song "It is all about money"?)! And concerning attacks in Afghanistan; i hardly belive USA gov. will achive anything good for you with bombardment. It would be better to give Afghanistan humanitarian help for money that USA is now throwing on Afg. in form of bombs (...) as it will only make people more poor and more extremists/terrorists will be born from that. Btw i live in Europe, i do not pray Alah, i just think with my own head ;)
Rok, There is some truth to what you say, but I ask first to consider, what we have done to improve the world. We in Europe (or the EU, we won't go into my own pro-federal European politics in this post) are the Worst type of hypocrits. When America (and her friends) take any type of action we say 'there they go again, looking after there own interests'. What have we done here in Europe, every time the Balkans has gone to crisis, what have we done ... nothing! And that is our own doorstep, sure the America may now be feeling the some retaliation for their actions in the past, but hey at least they can say they tried to do something, to change the world for the better. More action i might argue than us Europeans who sit in judgement and do nothing. Ok, you might argue that we give huge amounts of money to famine relief and third world development. This is true, but everytime Europe has needed to stand as one, wether it be for our own good or the good of others, we have failed because of are own petty internal conflicts, Examine you own eye before attempting to pick splinters out of others. roll on the Nice treaty ... Regards Ray "Je Suis Mort De Rire"
-
What is happening now with terrorism, US have acchived in years long interference into other country internal affairs. What do you think, how much pressure is needed to make someone so angry (hopeless?), that he is willing to give his life just to hurt you (oh yeah i know, he is born for terrorist)? Instead of looking for guilt in other countrys like Afghanistan, start to look for an answer in your foreign politic. Dont understand this that i agree with terrorists methods (i am sorry for people that died in WTC :rose:), but what USA is doing around the globe for last 40 years is far worse than what they terrorists did (Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Yugoslavia, Irak; do remember that song "It is all about money"?)! And concerning attacks in Afghanistan; i hardly belive USA gov. will achive anything good for you with bombardment. It would be better to give Afghanistan humanitarian help for money that USA is now throwing on Afg. in form of bombs (...) as it will only make people more poor and more extremists/terrorists will be born from that. Btw i live in Europe, i do not pray Alah, i just think with my own head ;)
-
So the question is 'why is America stationed in the Middle East?' and 'what would happen if they withdrew?' I've only got a sketchy understanding of the first, and no idea of the second. Maybe by withdrawing and letting the Islamic nations deal with their neighbours things could be settled more amicably. Maybe the nations surrounding Afghanistan or Iraq or whoever wouldn't try to settle things down and with no dampening rods things would get even more crazy. I do agree with you that no matter how justified the reprisals are, the thought of having a foreign power bomb your own soil is bound to be annoying. Add to that the incredible anti-Western propoganda ('The Americans want to destroy Islam') and also the total lack of a decent future that many in that area have, and it's a recipe for a very bitter and very angry group of people who have nothing to do and nothing to live for and a lot of sour resentment (at their own state of affairs, that of their country and 'leaders', and at the frightening and totally demoralising attacks on their homeland). These guys have wars in the same way Canadians play hockey. The have long memories, are proud, and probably also very scared and very determined. If we could only sit down with every single person in that area of the world and say 'We don't want to hurt you! We just want to help you get your country back on it's feet, stop a man from endangering world peace, give you freedom, and let you practice your life and religion in peace and security. BTW, have some food' and if we all sat down and had them explain what they are thinking and feeling, then things would cool down pretty quickly. Violence begets violence. As Gandhi said, "An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind". cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject)
... BTW, have some food ... I reckon some Vegemite could do some good here. ;P Michael Martin Pegasystems Pty Ltd Australia martm@pegasystems.com +61 413-004-018 "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace" - Victor Stone
-
I simply don't have the energy to argue beyond stating the obvious - you're a moron. To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-biters. - Me, 10/03/2001
I simply don't have the energy to argue beyond stating the obvious - you're a moron. Aww, c'mon John. :-D Michael Martin Pegasystems Pty Ltd Australia martm@pegasystems.com +61 413-004-018 "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace" - Victor Stone
-
What is happening now with terrorism, US have acchived in years long interference into other country internal affairs. What do you think, how much pressure is needed to make someone so angry (hopeless?), that he is willing to give his life just to hurt you (oh yeah i know, he is born for terrorist)? Instead of looking for guilt in other countrys like Afghanistan, start to look for an answer in your foreign politic. Dont understand this that i agree with terrorists methods (i am sorry for people that died in WTC :rose:), but what USA is doing around the globe for last 40 years is far worse than what they terrorists did (Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Yugoslavia, Irak; do remember that song "It is all about money"?)! And concerning attacks in Afghanistan; i hardly belive USA gov. will achive anything good for you with bombardment. It would be better to give Afghanistan humanitarian help for money that USA is now throwing on Afg. in form of bombs (...) as it will only make people more poor and more extremists/terrorists will be born from that. Btw i live in Europe, i do not pray Alah, i just think with my own head ;)
The problem here is that, as a "superpower" a country has a certain obligation to try to maintain peace. If we didn't then we would receive criticism from the world for not stepping up to the plate and helping our friends and allies in their time of need. Granted, our motives in the Gulf War were affected by money - not just the oil reserves in the region, but also the boost it provided to our economy (was is good business). But that is not entirely the case. World war II started with Germany invading and conquering a single country, much like Iraq did here. Now, if the world had organized and stood up to the Nazis then, how many millions of lives would have been saved? The expression "nip it in the bud" comes to mind. Granted, Iraq may not have had the resources to start a world war, but if they had been allowed to continue what woudl have happened? What would have been next? Where would the world be today if all major oil reserves were in the hands of one nation? Maybe you're right. Maybe America should mind ts own business. Hell, let's kick out all foreign embassies, make the UN move, close our borders to all foreign people and goods, bring all of our troops back for homeland defense and border patrol, kick out all illegal immigrants, install the Star-wars defnese system (or whatever they're calling it now) and let the rest of the world do whatever the hell it wants. But what would you be saying about us then? And how will you feel when a foreign country invades yours and we don't go there to save you?
-
What is happening now with terrorism, US have acchived in years long interference into other country internal affairs. What do you think, how much pressure is needed to make someone so angry (hopeless?), that he is willing to give his life just to hurt you (oh yeah i know, he is born for terrorist)? Instead of looking for guilt in other countrys like Afghanistan, start to look for an answer in your foreign politic. Dont understand this that i agree with terrorists methods (i am sorry for people that died in WTC :rose:), but what USA is doing around the globe for last 40 years is far worse than what they terrorists did (Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Yugoslavia, Irak; do remember that song "It is all about money"?)! And concerning attacks in Afghanistan; i hardly belive USA gov. will achive anything good for you with bombardment. It would be better to give Afghanistan humanitarian help for money that USA is now throwing on Afg. in form of bombs (...) as it will only make people more poor and more extremists/terrorists will be born from that. Btw i live in Europe, i do not pray Alah, i just think with my own head ;)
-
I simply don't have the energy to argue beyond stating the obvious - you're a moron. To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-biters. - Me, 10/03/2001
...you're a moron. It's been a long time since I've read such a well argued and presented conclusion. Thanks, John, you saved me from having to explain this myself. ----------------------- Reg : "Well, what Jesus blatantly fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem."
-
I simply don't have the energy to argue beyond stating the obvious - you're a moron. Aww, c'mon John. :-D Michael Martin Pegasystems Pty Ltd Australia martm@pegasystems.com +61 413-004-018 "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace" - Victor Stone
Give him a break - he's getting old and it's past his bedtime. cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject)
-
What is happening now with terrorism, US have acchived in years long interference into other country internal affairs. What do you think, how much pressure is needed to make someone so angry (hopeless?), that he is willing to give his life just to hurt you (oh yeah i know, he is born for terrorist)? Instead of looking for guilt in other countrys like Afghanistan, start to look for an answer in your foreign politic. Dont understand this that i agree with terrorists methods (i am sorry for people that died in WTC :rose:), but what USA is doing around the globe for last 40 years is far worse than what they terrorists did (Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Yugoslavia, Irak; do remember that song "It is all about money"?)! And concerning attacks in Afghanistan; i hardly belive USA gov. will achive anything good for you with bombardment. It would be better to give Afghanistan humanitarian help for money that USA is now throwing on Afg. in form of bombs (...) as it will only make people more poor and more extremists/terrorists will be born from that. Btw i live in Europe, i do not pray Alah, i just think with my own head ;)
> I do not pray Alah, i just think with my own head Okay, Somebody kills your dearest loved ones. You know where they live, but the people who they live with won't hand them over. What do you do? Do you just say fair enough and forget about it. In the years leading up to the second world war, countries tried the appeasement route with Hitler and look what happened. But when all said and done, humans are animals. Violent and selfish animals, there is no morality, we do what we have to do to survive. We've been killing each other since Cain and Able (Allegedly, I'm not a fan of The Book). This is all down to self preservation, Western civilization is trying to protect itself from a threat. Bin Laden and his mates are trying to do the same for their beliefs. It's happened throughout history and will continue to happen for a long time to come. Michael :-)
-
Give him a break - he's getting old and it's past his bedtime. cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject)
Well I reckon it must be about 8:00 am Texas time. So I would be worried if he was in bed now. Also what are you doing taking John's bait? No wonder you haven't nibbled at any of the bait I have been leaving out for you lately. :) Michael Martin Pegasystems Pty Ltd Australia martm@pegasystems.com +61 413-004-018 "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace" - Victor Stone
-
What is happening now with terrorism, US have acchived in years long interference into other country internal affairs. What do you think, how much pressure is needed to make someone so angry (hopeless?), that he is willing to give his life just to hurt you (oh yeah i know, he is born for terrorist)? Instead of looking for guilt in other countrys like Afghanistan, start to look for an answer in your foreign politic. Dont understand this that i agree with terrorists methods (i am sorry for people that died in WTC :rose:), but what USA is doing around the globe for last 40 years is far worse than what they terrorists did (Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Yugoslavia, Irak; do remember that song "It is all about money"?)! And concerning attacks in Afghanistan; i hardly belive USA gov. will achive anything good for you with bombardment. It would be better to give Afghanistan humanitarian help for money that USA is now throwing on Afg. in form of bombs (...) as it will only make people more poor and more extremists/terrorists will be born from that. Btw i live in Europe, i do not pray Alah, i just think with my own head ;)
-
What is happening now with terrorism, US have acchived in years long interference into other country internal affairs. What do you think, how much pressure is needed to make someone so angry (hopeless?), that he is willing to give his life just to hurt you (oh yeah i know, he is born for terrorist)? Instead of looking for guilt in other countrys like Afghanistan, start to look for an answer in your foreign politic. Dont understand this that i agree with terrorists methods (i am sorry for people that died in WTC :rose:), but what USA is doing around the globe for last 40 years is far worse than what they terrorists did (Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Yugoslavia, Irak; do remember that song "It is all about money"?)! And concerning attacks in Afghanistan; i hardly belive USA gov. will achive anything good for you with bombardment. It would be better to give Afghanistan humanitarian help for money that USA is now throwing on Afg. in form of bombs (...) as it will only make people more poor and more extremists/terrorists will be born from that. Btw i live in Europe, i do not pray Alah, i just think with my own head ;)
The year is 2032. A boy, about eight years old, is taking a walk with his grandfather in lower Manhattan. They come to a large field where the grandfather pauses, takes off his hat, and sighs. They boy turns to his grandfather and asks, "What's wrong, Grandpa?" "Well, on this beautiful field used to be the World Trade Center. The two tallest buildings in the world used to sit right here on this spot. They were the heart of the world's financial center, and wonderful symbols of this great city of ours." "Where are they now, Grandpa?" "Some Arabs blew them up back in 2001." The boy thinks for a moment, then turns back and says: "What's an Arab?" "I never met anyone I didn't like" Will Rogers.
-
The year is 2032. A boy, about eight years old, is taking a walk with his grandfather in lower Manhattan. They come to a large field where the grandfather pauses, takes off his hat, and sighs. They boy turns to his grandfather and asks, "What's wrong, Grandpa?" "Well, on this beautiful field used to be the World Trade Center. The two tallest buildings in the world used to sit right here on this spot. They were the heart of the world's financial center, and wonderful symbols of this great city of ours." "Where are they now, Grandpa?" "Some Arabs blew them up back in 2001." The boy thinks for a moment, then turns back and says: "What's an Arab?" "I never met anyone I didn't like" Will Rogers.
ROFL! Funniest thing I've heard in a longtime. Michael :-)
-
What is happening now with terrorism, US have acchived in years long interference into other country internal affairs. What do you think, how much pressure is needed to make someone so angry (hopeless?), that he is willing to give his life just to hurt you (oh yeah i know, he is born for terrorist)? Instead of looking for guilt in other countrys like Afghanistan, start to look for an answer in your foreign politic. Dont understand this that i agree with terrorists methods (i am sorry for people that died in WTC :rose:), but what USA is doing around the globe for last 40 years is far worse than what they terrorists did (Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Yugoslavia, Irak; do remember that song "It is all about money"?)! And concerning attacks in Afghanistan; i hardly belive USA gov. will achive anything good for you with bombardment. It would be better to give Afghanistan humanitarian help for money that USA is now throwing on Afg. in form of bombs (...) as it will only make people more poor and more extremists/terrorists will be born from that. Btw i live in Europe, i do not pray Alah, i just think with my own head ;)
>(Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Yugoslavia, Irak; do remember that song "It is >all about money"?)! Hmm, okay at a stretch the Gulf War could have been about money. However the rest were surely about freedom, about trying to prevent peoples basic freedoms from being violated. Michael :-)
-
...you're a moron. It's been a long time since I've read such a well argued and presented conclusion. Thanks, John, you saved me from having to explain this myself. ----------------------- Reg : "Well, what Jesus blatantly fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem."
Old age is more than going to bed early, it's knowing when to implement efficiency of speech. With this guy, I recognized that you can't build too complex a statement because: a) His attention span is so immeasurably small that you'd be lucky to get out more than three words before something trivial catches his attention, like a butterfly flitting across his line of sight b) Three words with more than a combined five syllables would confound his already over-taxed logic system c) He obviously has the reasoning skills of a gnat, so providing complex analogies and descriptions of historic events would be a complete waste of time Besides that, his command of the English language is reminiscient of a new puppy's initial comprehension of paper training, so I didn't want to burden him with having to look up every other word. To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-biters. - Me, 10/03/2001
-
So the question is 'why is America stationed in the Middle East?' and 'what would happen if they withdrew?' I've only got a sketchy understanding of the first, and no idea of the second. Maybe by withdrawing and letting the Islamic nations deal with their neighbours things could be settled more amicably. Maybe the nations surrounding Afghanistan or Iraq or whoever wouldn't try to settle things down and with no dampening rods things would get even more crazy. I do agree with you that no matter how justified the reprisals are, the thought of having a foreign power bomb your own soil is bound to be annoying. Add to that the incredible anti-Western propoganda ('The Americans want to destroy Islam') and also the total lack of a decent future that many in that area have, and it's a recipe for a very bitter and very angry group of people who have nothing to do and nothing to live for and a lot of sour resentment (at their own state of affairs, that of their country and 'leaders', and at the frightening and totally demoralising attacks on their homeland). These guys have wars in the same way Canadians play hockey. The have long memories, are proud, and probably also very scared and very determined. If we could only sit down with every single person in that area of the world and say 'We don't want to hurt you! We just want to help you get your country back on it's feet, stop a man from endangering world peace, give you freedom, and let you practice your life and religion in peace and security. BTW, have some food' and if we all sat down and had them explain what they are thinking and feeling, then things would cool down pretty quickly. Violence begets violence. As Gandhi said, "An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind". cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject)
>If we could only sit down with every single person in that area of the world >and say 'We don't want to hurt you! We just want to help you get your >country back on it's feet, stop a man from endangering world peace, give you >freedom, and let you practice your life and religion in peace and security. >BTW, have some food' and if we all sat down and had them explain what they >are thinking and feeling, then things would cool down pretty quickly. The problem is that people like Bin Laden and the Taliban want to tell people what life and religion they can lead. I have no problem with Islam, or any other religion but we need the most basic human right, the freedom to choose. Michael :-)
-
Btw i live in Europe, i do not pray Alah, i just think with my own head I find this to be the funniest part. Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.
Well Tim, I'm not sure if you've notice? But I've been thinking with your head for the last week or so. Decided mine needed a rest for a while. ;P Michael Martin Pegasystems Pty Ltd Australia martm@pegasystems.com +61 413-004-018 "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace" - Victor Stone
-
What is happening now with terrorism, US have acchived in years long interference into other country internal affairs. What do you think, how much pressure is needed to make someone so angry (hopeless?), that he is willing to give his life just to hurt you (oh yeah i know, he is born for terrorist)? Instead of looking for guilt in other countrys like Afghanistan, start to look for an answer in your foreign politic. Dont understand this that i agree with terrorists methods (i am sorry for people that died in WTC :rose:), but what USA is doing around the globe for last 40 years is far worse than what they terrorists did (Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Yugoslavia, Irak; do remember that song "It is all about money"?)! And concerning attacks in Afghanistan; i hardly belive USA gov. will achive anything good for you with bombardment. It would be better to give Afghanistan humanitarian help for money that USA is now throwing on Afg. in form of bombs (...) as it will only make people more poor and more extremists/terrorists will be born from that. Btw i live in Europe, i do not pray Alah, i just think with my own head ;)
I have my own opinions about this very messy subject. 1) People have been killing each other long before the first "ape" earned the right to be called human. 2) No matter which religion is involved, there's always frases in the holy book that can be used as an argument to kill the "infidel". 3) If the USA (and any other powers throughout time: Egyptian, Greek and Roman empires, England, Spain, Germany, China, USSR, etc.) is neutral in foreign affairs you'll find "nice little conflicts" like WWI and WWII, and the likes throughout history. And, BTW, your allies will consider you an enemy after you leave them to their own devices. 4) If the USA (and any other powers throughout time: Egyptian, Greek and Roman empires, England, Spain, Germany, China, USSR, etc.) actively participates in foreign affairs you'll find "nice little conflicts" like Vietnam, Korea, Yugoslavia, Iraq, and the likes throughout history. And, BTW, your allies will consider you an enemy for not leaving them to their own devices. 5) Every major conflict in history has been triggered by someones quest for power. Mention religion, race, oil, etc. Whatever the excuse is, the real force behind it is the quest for power. For the sake of argument, just imagine that the "western world" withdrew their forces (and I mean their whole presence: military, diplomatic, economic and humanitarian) from the region. What whould happen to these countries? Would they be better? I really doubt so. Is Iran better since the Shah left power and was replaced by the Ayatollahs? Absolutly not. Is Saddam Hussien a benevolent ruler that is good for "his" people? No, he actually tried to exterminate several ethnic groups that he considers enemies. And they are as muslim as he says he is. Is Saddam safe for the surrounding countries? No. Ask Kuwait and who was suppossed to be invaded next: Saudi Arabia, Ossama Bin Laden's beloved holy land. I don't mean to ridicule it's status of holy land for Muslims, I mean to ironize on Bin Laden's views who says that what happens in Saudi Arabia is not USA's business, but what happens in Palestine is HIS business, despite that he's an Arab that lives in Afganistan and was there fighting a war that wasn't his business either! So, who is right and who is wrong? Nobody and everybody! So they have the right to attack us for our "sins"? So be it. We'll attack them for their "sins". And at the end there wont be a soul left to attack: not a christian, not a muslim, not a jew, nobody. And that's the irony of it all. We're an enda
-
Well Tim, I'm not sure if you've notice? But I've been thinking with your head for the last week or so. Decided mine needed a rest for a while. ;P Michael Martin Pegasystems Pty Ltd Australia martm@pegasystems.com +61 413-004-018 "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace" - Victor Stone