Programmers and Atheists
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Then what the hell are Agnostics? Lesbians? lol Actually I thought about it logically and I still don't get it. Unless you mean they are Atheists simply so that they are "allowed" to be gay? If so then you have no respect and have not learnt from whatever religion you hold dear to your heart. Thinking that you are insulting someone by calling them gay is a really, really pathetic thing to do. Most cases it is a case of insecurity or fear that others will find out that you are gay. Be happy with yourself and your sexual preference, God made you that way :-D regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes
Amen. J
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Along those lines of thought, why should anybody die ever? Why should anybody ever have to suffer pain? There aren't any good answers to those questions. But I can't fathom how that would make someone an atheist. Tim Smith Descartes Systems Sciences, Inc.
There aren't any good answers to those questions. But I can't fathom how that would make someone an atheist. IMO a "good" god would not allow innocent children to suffer horrible, painful deaths, therefore if a god exists it is either uncaring or evil. Either way, I don't want any part of this "god". Hence, atheism. Mike Mullikin "Real programmers don't document their code. It was hard to write - it should be hard to read!"
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This is a grossly generalized statement. Contrary to this, I'd argue, irrespective of our programming skills and our religions, belief in God *should* help us to avoid useless distraction (go figure) and thus to concentrate in our programming / debugging job better. // Fazlul
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Here is a code-snippet from a non-inteligent Programmer enum Belief{RELIGIOUS ,ATHEIST}; enum Property{GOOD_PROGRAMMER , BAD_PROGRAMMER}; class Person { Belief blf; Property prp; } public static void Main() { Person me; Person[] others; if(me.blf==ATHEIST) me.prp = GOOD_PROGRAMMER; else for(int i=0;i
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Amen. J
Argh. What I meant was... Be happy with yourself and your sexual preference, God made you that way. Amen. It's too damn bad the internet doesn't transmit my incredible wit with my posts. J
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#1 - When you're 9 years old your mother is pretty much the highest authority on EVERTHING! #2 - I mistakenly figured that if a bishop claims to turn wine into christ's blood, he might have a clue. #3 - At the time, I spent many, MANY hours praying for god to give me an answer to my question. Nothing. #4 - My dog knows exactly why I sit in front of my computer, I only wish he could explain it to my wife better than I. :laugh: Mike Mullikin "Real programmers don't document their code. It was hard to write - it should be hard to read!"
"My dog knows exactly why I sit in front of my computer, I only wish he could explain it to my wife better than I." LOL. Than your dog is smarter than me. I can't explain even to myself why I sit in front of my computer (except when I earn money). Anyway, I'm sure God will answer your questions some day. Be patient. I vote pro drink :beer:
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Then what the hell are Agnostics? Lesbians? lol Actually I thought about it logically and I still don't get it. Unless you mean they are Atheists simply so that they are "allowed" to be gay? If so then you have no respect and have not learnt from whatever religion you hold dear to your heart. Thinking that you are insulting someone by calling them gay is a really, really pathetic thing to do. Most cases it is a case of insecurity or fear that others will find out that you are gay. Be happy with yourself and your sexual preference, God made you that way :-D regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes
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There aren't any good answers to those questions. But I can't fathom how that would make someone an atheist. IMO a "good" god would not allow innocent children to suffer horrible, painful deaths, therefore if a god exists it is either uncaring or evil. Either way, I don't want any part of this "god". Hence, atheism. Mike Mullikin "Real programmers don't document their code. It was hard to write - it should be hard to read!"
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i would tone that down to: "most good programmers are skeptics" the point is that you rarely take what's given on face value, you want to know and understand "why" things happen the way they do. -c ------------------------------ Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com
I completely agree with you on this on, Chris. John
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On the other hand, The worst programmer I worked with was deeply religious. He turned me religious too after he left, everytime I had to fix his code I could be heard praying "Oh god, what the **** is this pile of **** supposed to be" :-) Michael :-)
:-D LOL It's curious how we (almost instinctively) turn to God in such circumstances. Regards, Alvaro
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You wish.... hehe Actually, and this is an OLD joke: I am a lesbian trapped in a mans body :-D regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes
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Argh. What I meant was... Be happy with yourself and your sexual preference, God made you that way. Amen. It's too damn bad the internet doesn't transmit my incredible wit with my posts. J
It's too damn bad the internet doesn't transmit my incredible wit with my posts. Amen. hehe couldn't resist :) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes
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>But smart? If I'd been smart, I'd taken the psychology course instead, with >all the cute chicks hanging out there. Oh, I must be half smart because I used to take psychology at Night school :-) Michael :-)
LOL :)
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Some of the brightest and most famous scientists in this world are religious. Part of the desire to understand the way the universe ticks is to get closer to God and understand the divine beauty He created. Education doesn't imply atheism - it implies a deeper understanding and a more solid basis for ones beliefs (either way). It's like all these discussions we've had over the last couple of days: evolution, quantum mechanics and relativity, plate techtonics etc etc. The more you see and the more you understand the more you find yourself hitting a point (as Paul will attest) where you go 'That's so cool. Almost too cool...' cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject)
The more you see and the more you understand the more you find yourself hitting a point (as Paul will attest) where you go 'That's so cool. Almost too cool...' Wow that is a bona-fida compliment coming from a genius like Chris. :-D I hit a point! wooohooo ;) Even an average joe like myself sometimes sees past the everyday of life into this incredible realm which, to borrow a phrase, blows my mind. To borrow a quote from the venerable Arthur C. Clarke: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Oft I think that we see magic everyday. I can only begin to imagine what the leading scientists, theologists and philosophers have seen. It must be incredible. In a way this really ties in with my love for reading, especially sci-fi and fantasy. Both those genres really require a very open mind and offer up worlds of possibilities for your imagination to run with. If I had the dilligence and pure intelligence neccesary I would love to get into some heavy physics (god, I hope I did not spell psychics, lol) and cosmological courses. I could then back up my ideas and also develop them further. Alas, I am but a humble typer with much too many questions :) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes
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I've generally stayed out of these religious threads until now. I have read all of them and have found them quite interesting. My comments/question aren't necesarily specific to this thread topic (or this branch of it) but maybe some of the pseudo-religious scholars would like to comment. Up to when I was 9 years old, my mother made sure I attended Catholic church and sunday school every week. One evening our neighbors house caught fire. My best friend and his 2 year old sister burned to death. Their screams haunted me for many years. A couple weeks later, I asked my mother why God allowed them to suffer so much in their deaths. She had no good answer, but suggested I talk to our priest. He also had no good answer. A few months later, after my sister's confirmation I had a chance to ask a bishop the same question. Once again, no good answer. I've been an atheist ever since. Why would a good god allow two innocent children to suffer in such a horrible death? And don't patronize me with "God has a purpose or God works in mysterious ways", I'm not buying it.:confused: Mike Mullikin "Real programmers don't document their code. It was hard to write - it should be hard to read!"
I almost didn't answer this, because no mere human can ever hope to completely understand God. Some things the Bible says on the subject: Anyone who has ever been disobedient in any way (other than disobeying a lower authority in order to obey a higher authority), is guilty of sin. Hence, "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) Also, the Bible tells us that the rightful payment for sin is death. (Romans 6:23) So, truthfully the question should be, "Why does God let anyone live at all?". The answer to that is found in 2 Peter 3:9, where it says that God is longsuffering and desires that people would repent of their sin and choose the life He offers. John 3:16 tells us that God loves everyone, so He did something to pay for our sin. So, the reason God can allow these things is because we all deserve the payment for sin (death), but we don't all get it because God is good and loving, giving us time to reject our sinfulness and to choose Him. John
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Hmmm But try to imagine this. On one side we have knowledge - as in the theory of relativty, quantum mechanics........ It's really unconceivable that a person who is studying quarks and hadrons will also be preapared to believe that a god or gods exist. I mean everything else old timers thought, they thought wrong - inclusing the flatness of the earth, and earth being the center of the univers...How can we then believe their concepts about god? Its too far-fetched to think that they got everything wrong but got it right regarding god. The more you understand the universe, the more you understand life; god becomes a dream that was just that - a dream that arose in barbaric man's attempt to solve the unknown..... Nish
It's really unconceivable that a person who is studying quarks and hadrons will also be preapared to believe that a god or gods exist. I find it hard to believe that someone would think the entire universe, and all the wonders it contains, is just a fluke. I think that a person who says there is no God is making as big a leap of faith as the person who says there is a God. We will have no absolute proof of this until we die. Either we will go to heaven or hell (as the case may be) and we will say "Oh, there is a God after all!!", or there will be nothing and it won't matter what we thought. I, as a christian of the Dutch Calvinist persuasion, have certain traditions and beliefs that are not shared by christians of other persuasions. I don't go about saying I'm right, and everyone else is wrong, because I don't know that 100%. I believe I'm right, but there is a difference between believing and knowning with absolute certainty. There are those who believe in the theories of evolution, relativity etc. but do they know that with 100% certainty. If they did then they wouldn't be called theories would they? Either people have a strong faith (God exists/ doesn't exist) or they are take the agnostic approach (don't know???). Either way, we will all find out in the end.:rose: --- Blessed are those who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused :laugh:
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The only faith I have is in windage, sight alignment, and a range of about 300 yards. To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-biters. - Me, 10/03/2001
I used to feel that way too, John. But about ten years ago I found myself standing over a hospital bed where my three year old son lay stuck full of needles and tubes, and a doctor was in my face explaining the fatalty rates of some desease that I didn't even know existed until that moment. Anyone who could put their faith in windage at a moment like that is a better man than me. "I never met anyone I didn't like" Will Rogers.
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Was this based on a scientific study ? A random sample or is it just the drivel coming out of an unorganised mind ? Please will you define the following:- What is a good programmer , what is a great programmer , what do you mean by the concept of aetheist ? How many programmers you sampled in order to arrive at this statement , what controls did you have in place to be sure that the sample was random. I suspect that you , like myself, are an aetheist but I think you are over generalising just a tad. If you mean that to be an effective programmer , it useful to have an open mind , then I would agree , but I see no reason why aetheists should have a monopoly on that . In an infinite universe , anything is possible.
it useful to have an open mind , then I would agree , but I see no reason why aetheists should have a monopoly on that "There is no God, You are crazy to believe in God" - what is so open minded about that:confused: --- Blessed are those who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused :laugh:
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Then what the hell are Agnostics? Lesbians? lol Actually I thought about it logically and I still don't get it. Unless you mean they are Atheists simply so that they are "allowed" to be gay? If so then you have no respect and have not learnt from whatever religion you hold dear to your heart. Thinking that you are insulting someone by calling them gay is a really, really pathetic thing to do. Most cases it is a case of insecurity or fear that others will find out that you are gay. Be happy with yourself and your sexual preference, God made you that way :-D regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes
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i would tone that down to: "most good programmers are skeptics" the point is that you rarely take what's given on face value, you want to know and understand "why" things happen the way they do. -c ------------------------------ Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com
I feel exactly this way :) That's why I like programming, it lets me be like a scientist always doing experiments to understand how things go. Paolo ------ "airplane is cool, but space shuttle is even better" (J. Kaczorowski)
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I've generally stayed out of these religious threads until now. I have read all of them and have found them quite interesting. My comments/question aren't necesarily specific to this thread topic (or this branch of it) but maybe some of the pseudo-religious scholars would like to comment. Up to when I was 9 years old, my mother made sure I attended Catholic church and sunday school every week. One evening our neighbors house caught fire. My best friend and his 2 year old sister burned to death. Their screams haunted me for many years. A couple weeks later, I asked my mother why God allowed them to suffer so much in their deaths. She had no good answer, but suggested I talk to our priest. He also had no good answer. A few months later, after my sister's confirmation I had a chance to ask a bishop the same question. Once again, no good answer. I've been an atheist ever since. Why would a good god allow two innocent children to suffer in such a horrible death? And don't patronize me with "God has a purpose or God works in mysterious ways", I'm not buying it.:confused: Mike Mullikin "Real programmers don't document their code. It was hard to write - it should be hard to read!"
Hi Mike, I have never come close to experiencing such a tragedy as you describe, I can't even come close to really understanding how you feel. Why God allows suffering in the world is a difficult question that many people have, you are not alone. I will try to present the Christian answer to this question, but please understand that I do not have your experience which makes this easier to say than actually comprehend. The Christian answer to this goes back to the beginning when Adam and Eve first sinned. Before they ate from the forbidden fruit, there was no sin and therefore no pain or suffering. It was not possible for any man to die or be hurt. Once man rebelled against God, sin entered the picture allowing suffering and death. It was man who rebelled against God and therefore allowed suffering and death into the world. Unfortunately all of man is in the same situation due to the actions of our ancestors (Adam and Eve) - we are all born into sin. This means we will all eventually die and some of us will experience extrordinary pain and suffering. This was not God's plan, it was mans rebellion that caused this. Although God has the power to intervene and prevent pain and suffering, it is done at his discretion. This supernatural intervention is not common however, man in general lives its entire life in pain and suffering. The solution to this pain and suffering is the salvation offered through Jesus Christ. God never intended for your best friend, his sister or you to experience this tragedy. He could have prevented it, but he didn't because free will results in both good and bad things and we (Adam and Eve) rebelled allowing the bad things to enter our life. It is easier to blame he who could have prevented the tragedy (God) than man, but it really is man who is to blame. Chris Hafey