What a bunch of hypocrites!
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[rant] http://www.godandscience.org/ I just spent forty minutes reading though this so called informative site, before I realised that their basic method of determining true from fasle is seriously flawed. The author seems to beleive that because something cannot be proved, then it is false, and the opposite is proved. That is ludicrous seeing as the existance of God (to quote one example) cannot be proved any more reliably then it can be disproved. In fact, a lot of the so called proof they are using as fundamental to their arguments, is in themselves not provable. What a bunch of hypocrites! What a waste of bandwidth. If you were planning on reading this site (a link was mentioned below), don't bother. It's the normal "I am right and you are wrong because I am right and you are wrong" you should expect from such religious people. [/rant]
:cool: -=:suss:=-
David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com P.S. Note that I said "expect from such religious people", not "expect from religious people". I am refering to the Jehova's Witness approach, i.e. shovel the sh*t still is sticks.
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[rant] http://www.godandscience.org/ I just spent forty minutes reading though this so called informative site, before I realised that their basic method of determining true from fasle is seriously flawed. The author seems to beleive that because something cannot be proved, then it is false, and the opposite is proved. That is ludicrous seeing as the existance of God (to quote one example) cannot be proved any more reliably then it can be disproved. In fact, a lot of the so called proof they are using as fundamental to their arguments, is in themselves not provable. What a bunch of hypocrites! What a waste of bandwidth. If you were planning on reading this site (a link was mentioned below), don't bother. It's the normal "I am right and you are wrong because I am right and you are wrong" you should expect from such religious people. [/rant]
:cool: -=:suss:=-
David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com P.S. Note that I said "expect from such religious people", not "expect from religious people". I am refering to the Jehova's Witness approach, i.e. shovel the sh*t still is sticks.
So let me just recap - you posted a link to a site you recommend we DON'T read ? You're just trying to catch up on my post count, aren't you ? ;P Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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So let me just recap - you posted a link to a site you recommend we DON'T read ? You're just trying to catch up on my post count, aren't you ? ;P Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
I don't think there ever going to be a chance of that happening! Even if you left the site for two years, no one could top your post count. And I was posting it to try to stop other people reading the mass of religious "mess" below from wasting their time on that site, as it was mentioned. It would be time better spent rearranging your paperclip collection.
:cool: -=:suss:=-
David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
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I don't think there ever going to be a chance of that happening! Even if you left the site for two years, no one could top your post count. And I was posting it to try to stop other people reading the mass of religious "mess" below from wasting their time on that site, as it was mentioned. It would be time better spent rearranging your paperclip collection.
:cool: -=:suss:=-
David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
Was this site mentioned previously ? I gave up on a couple of threads today, so I may have missed it. It looked to me like you informed everyone of the site and then said don't go there. It made sense from an 'I'm exasperated with this site' point of view, but was still kind of ironic, I thought. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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Was this site mentioned previously ? I gave up on a couple of threads today, so I may have missed it. It looked to me like you informed everyone of the site and then said don't go there. It made sense from an 'I'm exasperated with this site' point of view, but was still kind of ironic, I thought. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
Yeah, I think it was mentioned in the second Noah thread, but I too gave up after a while. Far too much gets posted during the period I use to sleep, to later read all of the messages. If I did I truly would be here 24/7/365 :eek:
:cool: -=:suss:=-
David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
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[rant] http://www.godandscience.org/ I just spent forty minutes reading though this so called informative site, before I realised that their basic method of determining true from fasle is seriously flawed. The author seems to beleive that because something cannot be proved, then it is false, and the opposite is proved. That is ludicrous seeing as the existance of God (to quote one example) cannot be proved any more reliably then it can be disproved. In fact, a lot of the so called proof they are using as fundamental to their arguments, is in themselves not provable. What a bunch of hypocrites! What a waste of bandwidth. If you were planning on reading this site (a link was mentioned below), don't bother. It's the normal "I am right and you are wrong because I am right and you are wrong" you should expect from such religious people. [/rant]
:cool: -=:suss:=-
David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com P.S. Note that I said "expect from such religious people", not "expect from religious people". I am refering to the Jehova's Witness approach, i.e. shovel the sh*t still is sticks.
To preface this, I do believe in God, but I think organized religion is a load of BS. Well said, David. I had a look at the site myself after someone mentioned their "Athiesm Test", and it's just what you said, flawed theories with no real logic, and one-sided arguments. All the proof they provide is either that "you can't prove it wrong so it's right" tactic, or passages from the Bible. It was interesting, though, to read about how I'll be damned to suffer in a lake of fire forever simply because I've sinned and don't worship/believe in Christ. If God is really so demented as to judge us all based on how strongly we worship Jesus, and not how morally we lived our lives, I'll jump into the lake of fire myself. Assuming that I'm interpreting this right, the notion that a killer who repents to Christ can get into heaven while I, a moral person who doesn't follow Christianity, is condemned to hell is absolutely ridiculous.
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To preface this, I do believe in God, but I think organized religion is a load of BS. Well said, David. I had a look at the site myself after someone mentioned their "Athiesm Test", and it's just what you said, flawed theories with no real logic, and one-sided arguments. All the proof they provide is either that "you can't prove it wrong so it's right" tactic, or passages from the Bible. It was interesting, though, to read about how I'll be damned to suffer in a lake of fire forever simply because I've sinned and don't worship/believe in Christ. If God is really so demented as to judge us all based on how strongly we worship Jesus, and not how morally we lived our lives, I'll jump into the lake of fire myself. Assuming that I'm interpreting this right, the notion that a killer who repents to Christ can get into heaven while I, a moral person who doesn't follow Christianity, is condemned to hell is absolutely ridiculous.
Well, the whole lake of fire thing is open to interpretation, but the general idea is that no matter who we are, God is offering us something good. That means on His terms, which includes allowing Him to turn a killer, for example, into someone who would never do such a thing. Surely even on the level of what is just, there is no betterr punishment for a killer than to make them genuinely regret their actions ? Either way, because salvation is not earned, you are correct in thinking it has nothing to do with how nice a person you are. It may seem ridiculous, but it's only because God is more generous than you would apparently like. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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Well, the whole lake of fire thing is open to interpretation, but the general idea is that no matter who we are, God is offering us something good. That means on His terms, which includes allowing Him to turn a killer, for example, into someone who would never do such a thing. Surely even on the level of what is just, there is no betterr punishment for a killer than to make them genuinely regret their actions ? Either way, because salvation is not earned, you are correct in thinking it has nothing to do with how nice a person you are. It may seem ridiculous, but it's only because God is more generous than you would apparently like. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
If god is all powerful then how come "satan" is supposedly even allowed to operate. I assume that "god" would have gotten rid of "satan" if he was all powerful.X| See how flawed the religious logic is. Thats why when anyone asks me what god I believe in I just tell the Zeus. Also it seems like "god" has a scam. Get "satan" to scare all the people to run to "god". If "god" wanted people to believe in him why didn't he just "design" them to believe. We've all heard that 100 monkeys typing in Visual C++ could come up with Windows. - thanks to MS, we now know this is true May the Source be with you. :vegemite:
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If god is all powerful then how come "satan" is supposedly even allowed to operate. I assume that "god" would have gotten rid of "satan" if he was all powerful.X| See how flawed the religious logic is. Thats why when anyone asks me what god I believe in I just tell the Zeus. Also it seems like "god" has a scam. Get "satan" to scare all the people to run to "god". If "god" wanted people to believe in him why didn't he just "design" them to believe. We've all heard that 100 monkeys typing in Visual C++ could come up with Windows. - thanks to MS, we now know this is true May the Source be with you. :vegemite:
I'd better answer this quick before you delete it.... If god is all powerful then how come "satan" is supposedly even allowed to operate. I assume that "god" would have gotten rid of "satan" if he was all powerful.X| 1/ satan does not 'operate'. What do you think satan does ? See how flawed the religious logic is. Thats why when anyone asks me what god I believe in I just tell the Zeus. Most people go for Jedi nowadays. If I was not a Christian, that's what I would do. Also it seems like "god" has a scam. Get "satan" to scare all the people to run to "god". If "god" wanted people to believe in him why didn't he just "design" them to believe. Man *is* designed to believe, he is raised not to in our society. More to the point, if God *didn't* want you to believe, why does He offer proof to the individual ? Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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I'd better answer this quick before you delete it.... If god is all powerful then how come "satan" is supposedly even allowed to operate. I assume that "god" would have gotten rid of "satan" if he was all powerful.X| 1/ satan does not 'operate'. What do you think satan does ? See how flawed the religious logic is. Thats why when anyone asks me what god I believe in I just tell the Zeus. Most people go for Jedi nowadays. If I was not a Christian, that's what I would do. Also it seems like "god" has a scam. Get "satan" to scare all the people to run to "god". If "god" wanted people to believe in him why didn't he just "design" them to believe. Man *is* designed to believe, he is raised not to in our society. More to the point, if God *didn't* want you to believe, why does He offer proof to the individual ? Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
Doesn't "satan" operate hell and manipulate people into "sin"? If I were "god" I would just close "satan's" hell. Anyway, what proof does "god" give to the individual? We've all heard that 100 monkeys typing in Visual C++ could come up with Windows. - thanks to MS, we now know this is true May the Source be with you. :vegemite:
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Well, the whole lake of fire thing is open to interpretation, but the general idea is that no matter who we are, God is offering us something good. That means on His terms, which includes allowing Him to turn a killer, for example, into someone who would never do such a thing. Surely even on the level of what is just, there is no betterr punishment for a killer than to make them genuinely regret their actions ? Either way, because salvation is not earned, you are correct in thinking it has nothing to do with how nice a person you are. It may seem ridiculous, but it's only because God is more generous than you would apparently like. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
Either way, because salvation is not earned, you are correct in thinking it has nothing to do with how nice a person you are. It may seem ridiculous, but it's only because God is more generous than you would apparently like. It does seem ridiculous, and that's one of the things I don't like about religion. Yes, religions also try to preach morality and values, but telling people "doesn't matter what you do on earth, so long as you believe" is wrong. It's good that God is offering us the chance to redeem ourselves -- I've no problem with that -- but there should really be a line somewhere. Someone like say, Osama bin Laden, should not be allowed into heaven, no matter how regretful he feels. Let him regret and burn in hell too, I say. Yeah, the above example doesn't really work since bin Laden isn't Christian and probably has different beliefs on heaven/hell/Christ, but you get the idea. Again, certain things that are deemed "sins", like envy or jealousy, are just part of being a human being, and it's good that God can forgive them. But murder? Rape? No way.
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Doesn't "satan" operate hell and manipulate people into "sin"? If I were "god" I would just close "satan's" hell. Anyway, what proof does "god" give to the individual? We've all heard that 100 monkeys typing in Visual C++ could come up with Windows. - thanks to MS, we now know this is true May the Source be with you. :vegemite:
Anyway, what proof does "god" give to the individual? Needing proof goes against the idea of faith. I believe in God, yet I really have no physical proof that tells me there is a God. Instead, I'm relying on gut instinct and my own personal views on the universe. Someone who truly believes in God doesn't need proof of his/her/its' existence, they just believe. Of course, you can also start reading into things and inventing proof, viewing things like "faith healing" or "praying in tongues" as being signs of God.
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Anyway, what proof does "god" give to the individual? Needing proof goes against the idea of faith. I believe in God, yet I really have no physical proof that tells me there is a God. Instead, I'm relying on gut instinct and my own personal views on the universe. Someone who truly believes in God doesn't need proof of his/her/its' existence, they just believe. Of course, you can also start reading into things and inventing proof, viewing things like "faith healing" or "praying in tongues" as being signs of God.
What if I believed that I was superman? I would have faith in that assumption, but I would most likely end up in a Mental Hospital. We've all heard that 100 monkeys typing in Visual C++ could come up with Windows. - thanks to MS, we now know this is true May the Source be with you. :vegemite:
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Doesn't "satan" operate hell and manipulate people into "sin"? If I were "god" I would just close "satan's" hell. Anyway, what proof does "god" give to the individual? We've all heard that 100 monkeys typing in Visual C++ could come up with Windows. - thanks to MS, we now know this is true May the Source be with you. :vegemite:
Doesn't "satan" operate hell and manipulate people into "sin"? No. People do not need satans help, if he were able to give it. The idea of satan with horns attacking people and feasting on their souls in hell is a catholic invention. If I were "god" I would just close "satan's" hell. Anyway, what proof does "god" give to the individual? Although some people think the Bible says proof denies faith, it ACTUALLY says faith is built on experience. The Bible specifies the gifts given to all Christians at the point of conversion, and how to go about asking God for these gifts and therefore salvation. I've said a lot on this here recently, so I think it's best if I limit the airplay I get to rehash things you can read by going back in the lounge. I don't want to turn this into Christian's religious forum, or to monopolise the lounge with my views, even if it is through answering questions. If you have any questions after reading my past posts, I'd suggest at the moment it's more appropriate they occur via email. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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What if I believed that I was superman? I would have faith in that assumption, but I would most likely end up in a Mental Hospital. We've all heard that 100 monkeys typing in Visual C++ could come up with Windows. - thanks to MS, we now know this is true May the Source be with you. :vegemite:
What if I believed that I was superman? I would have faith in that assumption, but I would most likely end up in a Mental Hospital. Was there a point to that statement? Sure, sometimes blind faith is a bad thing. It's up to the individual to decide whether believing in God falls under that category.
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Either way, because salvation is not earned, you are correct in thinking it has nothing to do with how nice a person you are. It may seem ridiculous, but it's only because God is more generous than you would apparently like. It does seem ridiculous, and that's one of the things I don't like about religion. Yes, religions also try to preach morality and values, but telling people "doesn't matter what you do on earth, so long as you believe" is wrong. It's good that God is offering us the chance to redeem ourselves -- I've no problem with that -- but there should really be a line somewhere. Someone like say, Osama bin Laden, should not be allowed into heaven, no matter how regretful he feels. Let him regret and burn in hell too, I say. Yeah, the above example doesn't really work since bin Laden isn't Christian and probably has different beliefs on heaven/hell/Christ, but you get the idea. Again, certain things that are deemed "sins", like envy or jealousy, are just part of being a human being, and it's good that God can forgive them. But murder? Rape? No way.
It does seem ridiculous, and that's one of the things I don't like about religion. Yes, religions also try to preach morality and values, but telling people "doesn't matter what you do on earth, so long as you believe" is wrong. I never said that. What I said was that what people did prior to conversion is irrelevant, what they do after is another story. It's good that God is offering us the chance to redeem ourselves -- I've no problem with that -- but there should really be a line somewhere. Someone like say, Osama bin Laden, should not be allowed into heaven, no matter how regretful he feels. Let him regret and burn in hell too, I say. Again, certain things that are deemed "sins", like envy or jealousy, are just part of being a human being, and it's good that God can forgive them. But murder? Rape? No way Well, given that you've said you believe in a god who does nothing and is built in the image of your gut feelings, it's no surprise he also follows your views regarding crime & punishment. To reiterate what I said above - killing a killer is society taking revenge, but isn't it better on every level if the person is recreated by the power of God and lives the rest of their life regretting their actions ? Dead is dead, and killing the killer actually punishes them less, so God's way is more just as well as more loving. The Bible sets out exactly what sort of things are part of our humanity and to be overcome, but forgivable, if you will, and what things are totally unacceptable in the church. You should base your statements on what the Bible says rather than what you percieve the religious world to say if you want to talk about Christianity. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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[rant] http://www.godandscience.org/ I just spent forty minutes reading though this so called informative site, before I realised that their basic method of determining true from fasle is seriously flawed. The author seems to beleive that because something cannot be proved, then it is false, and the opposite is proved. That is ludicrous seeing as the existance of God (to quote one example) cannot be proved any more reliably then it can be disproved. In fact, a lot of the so called proof they are using as fundamental to their arguments, is in themselves not provable. What a bunch of hypocrites! What a waste of bandwidth. If you were planning on reading this site (a link was mentioned below), don't bother. It's the normal "I am right and you are wrong because I am right and you are wrong" you should expect from such religious people. [/rant]
:cool: -=:suss:=-
David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com P.S. Note that I said "expect from such religious people", not "expect from religious people". I am refering to the Jehova's Witness approach, i.e. shovel the sh*t still is sticks.
I just spent forty minutes reading though this so called informative site It took you 40 minutes to decide to realise that there basic method was flawed !! You should be spending this time working on your sig !!! Regardz Colin J Davies
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What if I believed that I was superman? I would have faith in that assumption, but I would most likely end up in a Mental Hospital. We've all heard that 100 monkeys typing in Visual C++ could come up with Windows. - thanks to MS, we now know this is true May the Source be with you. :vegemite:
What if I believed that I was superman? I would have faith in that assumption, but I would most likely end up in a Mental Hospital. The crazy thing is - you might even end up in a mental hospital if you go around claiming that this God your supposed to believe in talks to you. Steve T. Philosophy: Questions which may never be answered. Religion: Answers which may never be questioned.
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[rant] http://www.godandscience.org/ I just spent forty minutes reading though this so called informative site, before I realised that their basic method of determining true from fasle is seriously flawed. The author seems to beleive that because something cannot be proved, then it is false, and the opposite is proved. That is ludicrous seeing as the existance of God (to quote one example) cannot be proved any more reliably then it can be disproved. In fact, a lot of the so called proof they are using as fundamental to their arguments, is in themselves not provable. What a bunch of hypocrites! What a waste of bandwidth. If you were planning on reading this site (a link was mentioned below), don't bother. It's the normal "I am right and you are wrong because I am right and you are wrong" you should expect from such religious people. [/rant]
:cool: -=:suss:=-
David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com P.S. Note that I said "expect from such religious people", not "expect from religious people". I am refering to the Jehova's Witness approach, i.e. shovel the sh*t still is sticks.
I have another site which might fall under the same category. http://www.tencommandments.org/ But since I go there now and then to read his articles, I cannot recommend you not to go. ;P There's something to be said about how some of these people stick to their beliefs, right or wrong. You can learn alot from these guys debating skills next time you negociate your pay. I Believe I am worth 30% more money, and you cannot prove to me that Im not!
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[rant] http://www.godandscience.org/ I just spent forty minutes reading though this so called informative site, before I realised that their basic method of determining true from fasle is seriously flawed. The author seems to beleive that because something cannot be proved, then it is false, and the opposite is proved. That is ludicrous seeing as the existance of God (to quote one example) cannot be proved any more reliably then it can be disproved. In fact, a lot of the so called proof they are using as fundamental to their arguments, is in themselves not provable. What a bunch of hypocrites! What a waste of bandwidth. If you were planning on reading this site (a link was mentioned below), don't bother. It's the normal "I am right and you are wrong because I am right and you are wrong" you should expect from such religious people. [/rant]
:cool: -=:suss:=-
David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com P.S. Note that I said "expect from such religious people", not "expect from religious people". I am refering to the Jehova's Witness approach, i.e. shovel the sh*t still is sticks.
Hmmmm.... Makes me wonder if I shouldn't read all the new posts before posting my messages. I guess you can disregard my post to Paul's new thread. *wishes he'd read that site a little more* John