<i>Your</i> God
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Alright then, we have all expressed ourselves on the issues of evolution, religion etc. A lot of opinions have been thrown about and a lot of heated debates have been rammed home. Apart from people obviously pro-Christian and those pro-Atheism not much has been mentioned about personal beliefs, or personal gods. Organised religion IMHO is not something I ever want to get back into nor do I recommend it to anyone with an open mind and a strong will (no disrespect to anyone who is part of an organised religion). So what are your personal beliefs? Do you, like Chris, believe that everything came forth from the bellybutton of the goddess Sheba? Do you believe in one almighty power who is all and created all, or do you believe in many gods? I personally am not 100% sure what is out there. My current personal belief though is that of a power which is part of our universe. It came into being along with our universe and is ruled like us by the universes laws and restraints. It is no holy creature but is far evolved past us. Whether it be one or many I am not sure. Beyond that I am still thinking about it. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes
Reality is what you percieve it to be .If that reality includes a god then he is real to you . The problem is that most people think there is only one reality,and therefore their reality is the true one.
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Yup you have. Just curious but was there a "before faith" time for you? As in was there a time in your life where you were not of faith? What was it like and how did you look back on your faithless years after you came to faith? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes
Yup you have. Just curious but was there a "before faith" time for you? As in was there a time in your life where you were not of faith? What was it like and how did you look back on your faithless years after you came to faith? Well, yes. I was brought up nominally Lutheran. I accepted there was a God in the same way I accepted there was a Santa Claus - parents don't lie, right ? (FWIW I'll interject that I tell my daughter about Santa because my explanation of God to her involves proof which I believe will mean she will be able to differentiate between the two concepts if she decides to take God up on the offer. ). Anyhow, I tried to read the Bible and gave up in Leviticus ( the Law ). Eventually I was confirmed ( a process that most churches do but has no place in the Bible ), and told I had the Holy Spirit. I felt no different, and so decided the whole thing was a waste of time, a ritual old people cling to because they will be dead soon. I was about 10 or 12. It was at the age of 20 I lived with two girls and through them started going to church again. I went to a lot of churches in a short time, all told me I was saved, I never felt any different. I had pretty much decided it was all a joke for the second time when a person I worked with told me I could have proof of God in my life, that I would know something had happened when I became a Christian, instead of some priest trying to convince me. What was it like ? Well, I was an accident and neither of my parents ever showed me any affection in my life, so I had no self esteem and was an introverted, lonely child. Add adolescence, and my teenage years basically sucked. The only good things in my life were my computer and my stereo. So in my case, my prior conversion and particularly the period I did not believe in God is also 12-20, I doubt that is fun for many, although it probably sucked more than most for me. Now I regard my life to have begun on Nov 19, 1989, because from that day I became a confident and happy person. As a child my mother would hit me because I never smiled and that made people think she was a bad mother. Even my mother, who refuses to accept any religion, refers to me recieving the Holy Spirit as a physical event that completely changed my life. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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Alright then, we have all expressed ourselves on the issues of evolution, religion etc. A lot of opinions have been thrown about and a lot of heated debates have been rammed home. Apart from people obviously pro-Christian and those pro-Atheism not much has been mentioned about personal beliefs, or personal gods. Organised religion IMHO is not something I ever want to get back into nor do I recommend it to anyone with an open mind and a strong will (no disrespect to anyone who is part of an organised religion). So what are your personal beliefs? Do you, like Chris, believe that everything came forth from the bellybutton of the goddess Sheba? Do you believe in one almighty power who is all and created all, or do you believe in many gods? I personally am not 100% sure what is out there. My current personal belief though is that of a power which is part of our universe. It came into being along with our universe and is ruled like us by the universes laws and restraints. It is no holy creature but is far evolved past us. Whether it be one or many I am not sure. Beyond that I am still thinking about it. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes
God is a state of mind. We create the 'creator' we need. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Memory leaks is the price we pay \0 01234567890123456789012345678901234
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Alright then, we have all expressed ourselves on the issues of evolution, religion etc. A lot of opinions have been thrown about and a lot of heated debates have been rammed home. Apart from people obviously pro-Christian and those pro-Atheism not much has been mentioned about personal beliefs, or personal gods. Organised religion IMHO is not something I ever want to get back into nor do I recommend it to anyone with an open mind and a strong will (no disrespect to anyone who is part of an organised religion). So what are your personal beliefs? Do you, like Chris, believe that everything came forth from the bellybutton of the goddess Sheba? Do you believe in one almighty power who is all and created all, or do you believe in many gods? I personally am not 100% sure what is out there. My current personal belief though is that of a power which is part of our universe. It came into being along with our universe and is ruled like us by the universes laws and restraints. It is no holy creature but is far evolved past us. Whether it be one or many I am not sure. Beyond that I am still thinking about it. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes
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I selected a fencepost in my backyard as my god. It's just as effective at answering prayers as anyone elses, but at least I can *see* it. ;P To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-biters. - Me, 10/03/2001
Surely a mirror would have been a better choice for you? ;P regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes
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Well your signature "I never met anyone I didn't like" Will Rogers. is pretty much backed up by your belief then :) That is a pretty interesting take on our universe though. I have been known to argue with people that really we are just cells inside a vast body that is our universe, much like cells in our bodies think they are part of a vast universe (our body). The universe is a creature which is floating/swimming/etc. between other of its kind and every now and then a they fall ill from, for instance, a black-hole (much like a hernia actually). :) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes
I always appreciated the parallel between an atom and our solar sytem, universe, and galaxy. If a human lives 100 years and a fly lives 1 day who has led a longer life? A fly's perspective may be so askewed from ours that its birth, infancy, maturity, and death may all seem to take the same period of time as our life process. Could that be why it is so hard to kill a fly? Maybe time is slowed down for them. With that same perspective one may wonder if we are but an atom on a blade of grass in a galaxy within a galaxy. Our life span seems long and our planet seems as it has been around forever, but maybe not in respect to the inhabitants of the outer galaxy. One day life will all end for us only because a child was outside playing or a lawn mower passing by. It may seem far fetched but looking at it from the outside in it is less difficult to conceive. I don't necessarily believe that to be fact but I have a lot of theories when it comes to life and the universe. It is fun to wonder! But where does a God fit into all of this? As a human with a very small understanding of what's real outside of what is for me, I can't comprehend time as anything but a timeline. Infinity is a concept that no one can truly grasp because we can't experience it. If everything is infinite and their was no true begining then where did everything come from? As a person I require a start and finish to anything...seems that everyone is more focused on the finish than the start though. But if time and space isn't infinite, how did it start? Where are the borders? If you hit the END of the ABSOLUTE universe is it a wall? Will it absorb all matter that crosses that line? When I die, if there is a heaven and creator, as I hope there is, I have so many questions that need answered. Maybe we aren't supposed to really know? :) ---- Xian
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God is a state of mind. We create the 'creator' we need. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Memory leaks is the price we pay \0 01234567890123456789012345678901234
Maybe we are simply a state of mind in Gods mind. He needs us and so created us. :) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes
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I always appreciated the parallel between an atom and our solar sytem, universe, and galaxy. If a human lives 100 years and a fly lives 1 day who has led a longer life? A fly's perspective may be so askewed from ours that its birth, infancy, maturity, and death may all seem to take the same period of time as our life process. Could that be why it is so hard to kill a fly? Maybe time is slowed down for them. With that same perspective one may wonder if we are but an atom on a blade of grass in a galaxy within a galaxy. Our life span seems long and our planet seems as it has been around forever, but maybe not in respect to the inhabitants of the outer galaxy. One day life will all end for us only because a child was outside playing or a lawn mower passing by. It may seem far fetched but looking at it from the outside in it is less difficult to conceive. I don't necessarily believe that to be fact but I have a lot of theories when it comes to life and the universe. It is fun to wonder! But where does a God fit into all of this? As a human with a very small understanding of what's real outside of what is for me, I can't comprehend time as anything but a timeline. Infinity is a concept that no one can truly grasp because we can't experience it. If everything is infinite and their was no true begining then where did everything come from? As a person I require a start and finish to anything...seems that everyone is more focused on the finish than the start though. But if time and space isn't infinite, how did it start? Where are the borders? If you hit the END of the ABSOLUTE universe is it a wall? Will it absorb all matter that crosses that line? When I die, if there is a heaven and creator, as I hope there is, I have so many questions that need answered. Maybe we aren't supposed to really know? :) ---- Xian
I can't comprehend time as anything but a timeline. Infinity is a concept that no one can truly grasp because we can't experience it. If everything is infinite and their was no true begining then where did everything come from? As a person I require a start and finish to anything...seems that everyone is more focused on the finish than the start though. But if time and space isn't infinite, how did it start? I wonder about that almost every day. Chris (Maunder) assures me that physicists and scientists have the answers, or at least some very good theories, but I do not believe any answer will ever really satisfy me or any real skeptic. Even if we did not have the concept of time and transceneded its barriers my mind would still wonder were everything came from. You have very similar thoughts to me Xian :) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes
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I always appreciated the parallel between an atom and our solar sytem, universe, and galaxy. If a human lives 100 years and a fly lives 1 day who has led a longer life? A fly's perspective may be so askewed from ours that its birth, infancy, maturity, and death may all seem to take the same period of time as our life process. Could that be why it is so hard to kill a fly? Maybe time is slowed down for them. With that same perspective one may wonder if we are but an atom on a blade of grass in a galaxy within a galaxy. Our life span seems long and our planet seems as it has been around forever, but maybe not in respect to the inhabitants of the outer galaxy. One day life will all end for us only because a child was outside playing or a lawn mower passing by. It may seem far fetched but looking at it from the outside in it is less difficult to conceive. I don't necessarily believe that to be fact but I have a lot of theories when it comes to life and the universe. It is fun to wonder! But where does a God fit into all of this? As a human with a very small understanding of what's real outside of what is for me, I can't comprehend time as anything but a timeline. Infinity is a concept that no one can truly grasp because we can't experience it. If everything is infinite and their was no true begining then where did everything come from? As a person I require a start and finish to anything...seems that everyone is more focused on the finish than the start though. But if time and space isn't infinite, how did it start? Where are the borders? If you hit the END of the ABSOLUTE universe is it a wall? Will it absorb all matter that crosses that line? When I die, if there is a heaven and creator, as I hope there is, I have so many questions that need answered. Maybe we aren't supposed to really know? :) ---- Xian
You've being watching too many movies. I've seen a movie (Men in Black, me thinks), where the good guys had to protect a marble because in that marble was a complete universe. The movie ends with the camera leaving earth, solar system, galaxy, etc. until it shows a marble being picked up by a child. --- Blessed are those who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused :laugh:
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Alright then, we have all expressed ourselves on the issues of evolution, religion etc. A lot of opinions have been thrown about and a lot of heated debates have been rammed home. Apart from people obviously pro-Christian and those pro-Atheism not much has been mentioned about personal beliefs, or personal gods. Organised religion IMHO is not something I ever want to get back into nor do I recommend it to anyone with an open mind and a strong will (no disrespect to anyone who is part of an organised religion). So what are your personal beliefs? Do you, like Chris, believe that everything came forth from the bellybutton of the goddess Sheba? Do you believe in one almighty power who is all and created all, or do you believe in many gods? I personally am not 100% sure what is out there. My current personal belief though is that of a power which is part of our universe. It came into being along with our universe and is ruled like us by the universes laws and restraints. It is no holy creature but is far evolved past us. Whether it be one or many I am not sure. Beyond that I am still thinking about it. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes
Why should there be a God/Creator/Superior being anyway? Only because we need a reason to exist? To blame someone if something extremly good/bad happens? Or because (most of) the people don't want to pass into non-existence when they die? maXallion
"It shouldn't have done that!" - Architect, Merlin
www.maxallion.de - coded evil & more -
You've being watching too many movies. I've seen a movie (Men in Black, me thinks), where the good guys had to protect a marble because in that marble was a complete universe. The movie ends with the camera leaving earth, solar system, galaxy, etc. until it shows a marble being picked up by a child. --- Blessed are those who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused :laugh:
The movies did not invent this idea at all, it has been around a long time. MIB just used it :) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes
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Why should there be a God/Creator/Superior being anyway? Only because we need a reason to exist? To blame someone if something extremly good/bad happens? Or because (most of) the people don't want to pass into non-existence when they die? maXallion
"It shouldn't have done that!" - Architect, Merlin
www.maxallion.de - coded evil & moreWhy should there be a God/Creator/Superior being anyway? It would explain a lot of questions we have. A God is also someone to turn to when one is in need of counsel. Only because we need a reason to exist? I believe you create your own reason to exist. The universe is not a game with an end-point that if we don't reach we loose. To blame someone if something extremly good/bad happens? If it is bad and you are to blame then take the responsibility on your shoulders. Some though use God as their excuse for their actions, they are the shameless and most reviled in Gods eyes. If it is bad and you are to blame then be happy and accept thanks, but dont gloat of course. Or because (most of) the people don't want to pass into non-existence when they die? Do you? I certainly do not want to cease to exist when I "die". "I want to live forever" as Queen sings. Currently my personal belief states that I will continue on after this vessel has perished, much like energy transforms from one form to another, so will I continue as another form of energy. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes
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Alright then, we have all expressed ourselves on the issues of evolution, religion etc. A lot of opinions have been thrown about and a lot of heated debates have been rammed home. Apart from people obviously pro-Christian and those pro-Atheism not much has been mentioned about personal beliefs, or personal gods. Organised religion IMHO is not something I ever want to get back into nor do I recommend it to anyone with an open mind and a strong will (no disrespect to anyone who is part of an organised religion). So what are your personal beliefs? Do you, like Chris, believe that everything came forth from the bellybutton of the goddess Sheba? Do you believe in one almighty power who is all and created all, or do you believe in many gods? I personally am not 100% sure what is out there. My current personal belief though is that of a power which is part of our universe. It came into being along with our universe and is ruled like us by the universes laws and restraints. It is no holy creature but is far evolved past us. Whether it be one or many I am not sure. Beyond that I am still thinking about it. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes
There are a whole slew of opions already posted here, and like Christian Graus, I'll refrain from getting into several new discussions since you already have a really good idea of what I believe. As an interesting little foray, you could check out http://www.godandscience.org/. WARNING!! Easily upset people should know ahead of time that my skim of the site leads me to believe that the administrator is of a similar persuasion to myself. (But he's much more interesting in his presentation. :)) John
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Why should there be a God/Creator/Superior being anyway? It would explain a lot of questions we have. A God is also someone to turn to when one is in need of counsel. Only because we need a reason to exist? I believe you create your own reason to exist. The universe is not a game with an end-point that if we don't reach we loose. To blame someone if something extremly good/bad happens? If it is bad and you are to blame then take the responsibility on your shoulders. Some though use God as their excuse for their actions, they are the shameless and most reviled in Gods eyes. If it is bad and you are to blame then be happy and accept thanks, but dont gloat of course. Or because (most of) the people don't want to pass into non-existence when they die? Do you? I certainly do not want to cease to exist when I "die". "I want to live forever" as Queen sings. Currently my personal belief states that I will continue on after this vessel has perished, much like energy transforms from one form to another, so will I continue as another form of energy. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes
It would explain a lot of questions we have. A God is also someone to turn to when one is in need of counsel. Sure, but who will answer the questions? Your God, or yourself (of course claiming it is your God speaking through you.) I believe you create your own reason to exist. The universe is not a game with an end-point that if we don't reach we loose. Well, I exist because I was born :). What I am (my personality) is mostly a result of what my parents told me, what I was told at school, where I grew up and so forth.... If it is bad and you are to blame then take the responsibility on your shoulders. Some though use God as their excuse for their actions, they are the shameless and most reviled in Gods eyes. If it is bad and you are to blame then be happy and accept thanks, but dont gloat of course. Since some gods are "all forgiving", who cares? :) Of course everyone is responsible for their own actions, and how they feel about it.... Do you? I certainly do not want to cease to exist when I "die". "I want to live forever" as Queen sings. Currently my personal belief states that I will continue on after this vessel has perished, much like energy transforms from one form to another, so will I continue as another form of energy. Sure do! Of course it would be nice, if there is a life after death. But if there isn't, why should I care? If I'm dead, I'm dead! maXallion
"It shouldn't have done that!" - Architect, Merlin
www.maxallion.de - coded evil & more -
Surely a mirror would have been a better choice for you? ;P regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes
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I can't comprehend time as anything but a timeline. Infinity is a concept that no one can truly grasp because we can't experience it. If everything is infinite and their was no true begining then where did everything come from? As a person I require a start and finish to anything...seems that everyone is more focused on the finish than the start though. But if time and space isn't infinite, how did it start? I wonder about that almost every day. Chris (Maunder) assures me that physicists and scientists have the answers, or at least some very good theories, but I do not believe any answer will ever really satisfy me or any real skeptic. Even if we did not have the concept of time and transceneded its barriers my mind would still wonder were everything came from. You have very similar thoughts to me Xian :) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes
I can't comprehend time as anything but a timeline. Ah - but it gets even weirder when you realise that there is no one timeline. Any two bodies travelling at different relative velocities measure time differently. Ooh - and then when you go past the event horizon of a black hole time and space go totally insane. Cool thing is you wouldn't notice a thing. Infinity is a concept that no one can truly grasp because we can't experience it. But we can - a circle, the real number system, lying on a hill at midnight on a clear night staring into space (hands up who's done that and got vertigo? Yeah!). You can't wrap your mind around infinity, but you can wrap it around the concept. Ya just gotta let go the need for a picture. Drop the idea that everything must be able to be visualised in the 4 dimensions we are (as soft squishy creatures) aware of and all sorts of cool stuff becomes possible. Trust your mind, not the deceiving universe that your senses perceive. But if time and space isn't infinite, how did it start? A self defeating question. If space/time isn't infinite, then what's outside it? And outside that? The trick is: there is no outside (stop trying to picture it!). physicists and scientists have the answers Not really - they just have a good idea of what rocks to look under. My idea of heaven is to have The Bumper Fun Book of Everything You Ever Wanted to Know. A book that outlines everything in a way (and this is the tricky bit) that is totally understandable. Imagine though that we did know everything - that we had achieved the ultimate level of knowledge and understanding. What would the human race do with nothing further to strive for? cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject)
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Alright then, we have all expressed ourselves on the issues of evolution, religion etc. A lot of opinions have been thrown about and a lot of heated debates have been rammed home. Apart from people obviously pro-Christian and those pro-Atheism not much has been mentioned about personal beliefs, or personal gods. Organised religion IMHO is not something I ever want to get back into nor do I recommend it to anyone with an open mind and a strong will (no disrespect to anyone who is part of an organised religion). So what are your personal beliefs? Do you, like Chris, believe that everything came forth from the bellybutton of the goddess Sheba? Do you believe in one almighty power who is all and created all, or do you believe in many gods? I personally am not 100% sure what is out there. My current personal belief though is that of a power which is part of our universe. It came into being along with our universe and is ruled like us by the universes laws and restraints. It is no holy creature but is far evolved past us. Whether it be one or many I am not sure. Beyond that I am still thinking about it. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes
I beleiver in one God, and the more I learn science / physics wise the more it proves to me that there is a God.
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I can't comprehend time as anything but a timeline. Ah - but it gets even weirder when you realise that there is no one timeline. Any two bodies travelling at different relative velocities measure time differently. Ooh - and then when you go past the event horizon of a black hole time and space go totally insane. Cool thing is you wouldn't notice a thing. Infinity is a concept that no one can truly grasp because we can't experience it. But we can - a circle, the real number system, lying on a hill at midnight on a clear night staring into space (hands up who's done that and got vertigo? Yeah!). You can't wrap your mind around infinity, but you can wrap it around the concept. Ya just gotta let go the need for a picture. Drop the idea that everything must be able to be visualised in the 4 dimensions we are (as soft squishy creatures) aware of and all sorts of cool stuff becomes possible. Trust your mind, not the deceiving universe that your senses perceive. But if time and space isn't infinite, how did it start? A self defeating question. If space/time isn't infinite, then what's outside it? And outside that? The trick is: there is no outside (stop trying to picture it!). physicists and scientists have the answers Not really - they just have a good idea of what rocks to look under. My idea of heaven is to have The Bumper Fun Book of Everything You Ever Wanted to Know. A book that outlines everything in a way (and this is the tricky bit) that is totally understandable. Imagine though that we did know everything - that we had achieved the ultimate level of knowledge and understanding. What would the human race do with nothing further to strive for? cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject)
What would the human race do with nothing further to strive for? Try to disprove The Bumper Fun Book of Everything You Ever Wanted to Know. :-D That is true and you know it, us humans are a funny bunch. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes
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I beleiver in one God, and the more I learn science / physics wise the more it proves to me that there is a God.
Well, could you elaborate a bit more please? You, being a well learned man, and I, a mere neandrathal, would like to hear your theories and proofs of one God. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes "Give me something better than Windows and I will use it, till then leave me be. Give me soemthing better than Science and I will believe it, till then leave me be." :)
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What would the human race do with nothing further to strive for? Try to disprove The Bumper Fun Book of Everything You Ever Wanted to Know. :-D That is true and you know it, us humans are a funny bunch. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa "We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible." - Chretien Malesherbes
Hehe. Actually come to think of it I could imagine vast and devestating wars being waged over the interpretation of the book. cheers, Chris Maunder (CodeProject)