Europe's view of world threats
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Michael P Butler wrote: Israel and Arab states keep fighting Arabs start to win Israel deploys nukes Arabs obtain nukes from former soviet union *BANG* America retaliates against Arabs (miss the target and hit Pakistan) Pakistan thinks it was the Indians behind it and launch their own attack French retaliate against America C'mon, France would surrender long before they could retaliate:)
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This joke is growing old :rolleyes:
"Vierteile den, der sie Hure schimpft mit einem türkischen Säbel."
mlog || Agile Programming | doxygenAnd yet makes me laugh every time...
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Mike Gaskey wrote: the population of several southern states (Florida, Arizona, Nevada) While Florida may qualify, Arizona and Nevada are not generally included in the term South when referring to the various regions of the US. Most of the population here is comprised of Californians who are sick of the police state the PRC has become, and natives who have never had any interest in anything that police state has to offer. Sadly, some of the same morons who destroyed the once great state of CA are also migrating here, and are trying to destroy AZ and NV with their paternalistic ideas about how a government should run. Apparently you can't teach an old idiot new tricks any easier than you can an old dog. While I don't see any indication that those in the Southwest have any lower IQs than anywhere else, the schools are terrible. Having little industry other than gambling the schools are impoverished, as is most of the population, and even the teachers are illiterate. Fortunately, ignorance can be cured given time and resources, and we're working on that.:-D "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot."Roger Wright wrote: While Florida may qualify, Arizona and Nevada are not generally included in the term South I agree but doubt whether or not anyone but us would know the difference. My Nevada reference really pertains to Las Vegas, a city / area with a high concentration of retirees. I go there once a year, week at a time, and am always amazed by the retirees I find there. Of course, they may just be lost after a good tme at "Dead man walking". The deep south, I'll agree, has some problems (re: education) but I currently live in Indy and the schools here are run to the benefit of teachers unions or with an approach designed to avoid lawsuits with the overall effect of a terrible education for K - 12. The only real education at that level in this neck of the woods comes from: Charter Schools, Parochical Schools. and, other private shools. Mike "liberals are being driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." by: JAMES TRAUB New York Times Loyal member of the vast right wing conspiracy
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This joke is growing old :rolleyes:
"Vierteile den, der sie Hure schimpft mit einem türkischen Säbel."
mlog || Agile Programming | doxygenSimple minds are easily amused you know ;) -- Ofra Haza: R.I.P
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a) Noone asked me b) I guess the main take is that Israels agressive behavior is a major roadblock to bringing some stability into the middle east. My personal take is that there's no use in blaming opne player, but that I tend to be more angry at Israelian politics than the arab one. Another factor is that, while you can label the Israeli side easily on a (single) country, this doesn't work that easy for the arab position. Especially for germany - yes there is some hypocrisy, but one not easily resolved. Auschwitz is a touchy subject, no matter how you treat it, but the semi-official position of "critisizing Israel is antisemitism" only helps breeding a latent, unbased antisemitism. Public figures of the Jewish establishment jumping up shouting "But his Grandpa gassed my Grandpa" at every itch they dislike don't help either. And it must not be forgotten that there is some ... animosity towards jews deeply rooted in European history and culture that dates back long before 3rd Reich, and Europeans, being strongly culture-aware, don't get rid of this within one generation.
"Vierteile den, der sie Hure schimpft mit einem türkischen Säbel."
mlog || Agile Programming | doxygenpeterchen wrote: And it must not be forgotten that there is some ... animosity towards jews deeply rooted in European history and culture that dates back long before 3rd Reich, and Europeans, being strongly culture-aware, don't get rid of this within one generation. Jews and Christians are not the only two ethnic groups that's been fighting in Europe the last thousand years. Let's not forget the protestants vs catholics, norse mythology vs christianity, muslims vs christians. I'm sure all permutations of those combinations are valid as well. The conflicts have always been there I'm afraid, and will probably be there for a long while. Religious and politic zealotry will kill us all off in the end :) The 3rd Reich-thing could've happened anywhere. Coups have been done since man could stand straight, and there's always been other men willing to spill blood to dominate other men. In the case of Hitler & Co, they were driven by insanity and not just the ordinary quest for power. -- Ofra Haza: R.I.P
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It is a pity that the vocal minority are cast as the majority when seen from the outside. The same happens for America with gung ho Texans and ingorant Southerners being represented as the majority of America. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: "Cynicism has it's place in life - but it should be kept well away from your inner self." Crikey! ain't life grand?
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a) Noone asked me b) I guess the main take is that Israels agressive behavior is a major roadblock to bringing some stability into the middle east. My personal take is that there's no use in blaming opne player, but that I tend to be more angry at Israelian politics than the arab one. Another factor is that, while you can label the Israeli side easily on a (single) country, this doesn't work that easy for the arab position. Especially for germany - yes there is some hypocrisy, but one not easily resolved. Auschwitz is a touchy subject, no matter how you treat it, but the semi-official position of "critisizing Israel is antisemitism" only helps breeding a latent, unbased antisemitism. Public figures of the Jewish establishment jumping up shouting "But his Grandpa gassed my Grandpa" at every itch they dislike don't help either. And it must not be forgotten that there is some ... animosity towards jews deeply rooted in European history and culture that dates back long before 3rd Reich, and Europeans, being strongly culture-aware, don't get rid of this within one generation.
"Vierteile den, der sie Hure schimpft mit einem türkischen Säbel."
mlog || Agile Programming | doxygenpeterchen wrote: And it must not be forgotten that there is some ... animosity towards jews deeply rooted in European history and culture that dates back long before 3rd Reich, and Europeans, being strongly culture-aware, don't get rid of this within one generation. Surely that would have crossed the Atlantic on the Mayflower too? What happened in Germany was a result of economics and a vulnerable polical system. It would have been unthinkable in Britain or France, I can't comment on Scandinavia. Ryan
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peterchen wrote: And it must not be forgotten that there is some ... animosity towards jews deeply rooted in European history and culture that dates back long before 3rd Reich, and Europeans, being strongly culture-aware, don't get rid of this within one generation. Jews and Christians are not the only two ethnic groups that's been fighting in Europe the last thousand years. Let's not forget the protestants vs catholics, norse mythology vs christianity, muslims vs christians. I'm sure all permutations of those combinations are valid as well. The conflicts have always been there I'm afraid, and will probably be there for a long while. Religious and politic zealotry will kill us all off in the end :) The 3rd Reich-thing could've happened anywhere. Coups have been done since man could stand straight, and there's always been other men willing to spill blood to dominate other men. In the case of Hitler & Co, they were driven by insanity and not just the ordinary quest for power. -- Ofra Haza: R.I.P
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Jews and Christians are not the only two ethnic groups that's been fighting in Europe the last thousand years. Just so I'm sure you really understand: 1. Christianity is not an ethenticity; 2. Jews and Christians were not fighting, Europe was conducting progroms; 3. Protestants versus Catholics, if I am not mistaken, is more on the order of indigenous people fighting versus invaders although I believe they've all forgotten that part. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: The 3rd Reich-thing could've happened anywhere. Bullshit. Plain and simple, bullshit. Mike "liberals are being driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." by: JAMES TRAUB New York Times Loyal member of the vast right wing conspiracy
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And yet makes me laugh every time...
Felix Gartsman wrote: And yet makes me laugh every time... Shame on me, I didn't recognize it as a joke. Mike "liberals are being driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." by: JAMES TRAUB New York Times Loyal member of the vast right wing conspiracy
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EU embarrassed as poll labels Israel world's biggest threat Bit odd that though. How is Israel a threat to the world? Any Europeans care to comment? p.s. For those of you who are about to once again inform us that you don't give a rats arse about Europe, sod off. We already know. Give it up already. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: "Cynicism has it's place in life - but it should be kept well away from your inner self." Crikey! ain't life grand?
I'm not a european, but I had seen this the other day. I wasn't quite sure how to interprete it. It's true that the entire Arab world could go ballistic if Israel does something dumb. But, when europeans say, "the Jewish state the biggest threat to world peace", it does not necessarily mean, "they have put the Jewish state below the level of the worst pariah state and terror organizations" - as the Israeli embassy in Brussels put it. In this article, the US was also named as a threat to world peace. Does this mean that europeans think Israel and the US are the worst nations in the world? Actually, no. Being "a threat to world peace" involves a whole bunch of factors. One of them is power. Most nations in the world are simply too weak to be any threat to world peace. If most nations suddenly decided to invade their neighbors, the world would be against them and they would quickly find themselves on the losing end of a war. It's a little bit like having 5 people in a canoe and asking, "Who is the greatest threat to turning the canoe over?" You have a young 50 pound kid in the canoe who throws temper tantrums. You also have a 300 pound man in the canoe. Even though the child is far more likely to stand up and try to flip the canoe, he simply doesn't have enough weight to do it. Essentially, nothing he does can threaten to overturn the canoe. The 300 pound man, on the other hand, might flip the canoe on accident. Who is the greatest threat to turning over the canoe? The 300 pound man. Israel is in an unusual position because Arabs watch it closely and it's actions can spark a war in the Middle East. On the other hand, Saddam can kill hundreds of thousands of Kurds in Iraq and there's no chance of sparking a large Middle-Eastern war because, quite frankly, Arabs care about oppression of the Palestinians by Jews a whole lot more than oppression of the Kurds by Saddam. If the Arabs suddenly decided that they really, really cared about the Kurds in the late 1980s/early 1990s, then the Ansfal campaign would've ignited the Arab world into a firestorm of war - and, therefore, Saddam Hussein would've been a threat to Middle-Eastern peace (though, maybe not world peace since the fighting would've been confined to the Middle East). If Israel did an Ansfal campaign on the Palestinians, it would erupt into big, big problems. For those reasons (and probably several others), it is incorrect to translate "the Jewish state the biggest threat to world peace", into "they have put the Jewish state below the lev
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Jews and Christians are not the only two ethnic groups that's been fighting in Europe the last thousand years. Just so I'm sure you really understand: 1. Christianity is not an ethenticity; 2. Jews and Christians were not fighting, Europe was conducting progroms; 3. Protestants versus Catholics, if I am not mistaken, is more on the order of indigenous people fighting versus invaders although I believe they've all forgotten that part. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: The 3rd Reich-thing could've happened anywhere. Bullshit. Plain and simple, bullshit. Mike "liberals are being driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." by: JAMES TRAUB New York Times Loyal member of the vast right wing conspiracy
Mike Gaskey wrote: 1. Christianity is not an ethenticity;
ethnicity
n : an ethnic quality or affiliation resulting from racial or
cultural ties; "ethnicity has a strong influence on
community status relations"I argue Christians share cultural ties. Mike Gaskey wrote: 2. Jews and Christians were not fighting, Europe was conducting progroms; Yes, I do understand that the Nazis were doing their very best to kill off every Jew with their programs. What's your point? Mike Gaskey wrote: 3. Protestants versus Catholics, if I am not mistaken, is more on the order of indigenous people fighting versus invaders although I believe they've all forgotten that part. After Martin Luther nailed his declaration on that wooden door (if my memory serves me right), there's been skirmishes and wars on and off. Some wars lasted for 30 years. Heck, a Swedish king named Gustav the Second died in Germany, fighting off the Catholics. Mike Gaskey wrote: Bullshit. Plain and simple, bullshit. And how is that bullshit?! How about Chile? How about Iraq? The thing that sets Chile and Iraq apart from Nazi Germany is the invention of SS. SS was an organization of certified wackos. It was more or less a religious sect! Where do you think the Swastika, skulls, aryan race bullshit, nordic mythology ideas and other silly ideas came from? SS was lead by a group of people who were religious zealots. They believed in that aryans were Gods. Man had once been Aryans - a God-like race. But during the centuries, the blood of the aryans became polluted. Jews and Slavs according to the SS were not decendents from Aryans, but from monkeys. They believed in this shit. Just as any God-fearing Christian believes in the Bible, as any Muslim believes the words of Mohammed and Allah, ad as any Jew believes the words of the Torah and Yahve. My point is that take any dictatorship and add religious zealotry, a massive propaganda machine, and the state of the world of that era (not as evolved methods of communication as today), then you could easily end up with a similar situation as in WWII Nazi Germany. -- Ofra Haza: R.I.P
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It is a pity that the vocal minority are cast as the majority when seen from the outside. The same happens for America with gung ho Texans and ingorant Southerners being represented as the majority of America. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: "Cynicism has it's place in life - but it should be kept well away from your inner self." Crikey! ain't life grand?
Paul Watson wrote: It is a pity that the vocal minority are cast as the majority when seen from the outside. YUP. For anyone. Paul Watson wrote: with gung ho Texans Are you talking about a guy from Connecticut who now likes to wear boots? Most of us gung ho Texans are pretty decent folks. :) Paul Watson wrote: ingorant Southerners Did you mean ignorant?:cool: If so that is only a few small counties back east. "For as long as I can remember, I have had memories. Colin Mochrie."
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EU embarrassed as poll labels Israel world's biggest threat Bit odd that though. How is Israel a threat to the world? Any Europeans care to comment? p.s. For those of you who are about to once again inform us that you don't give a rats arse about Europe, sod off. We already know. Give it up already. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: "Cynicism has it's place in life - but it should be kept well away from your inner self." Crikey! ain't life grand?
Well my quick (gung ho TEXAN) take is just a typical response from any group that is more focused on themselves than anything else. Yes every nation has a large percentage of individuals in that classification. So just word the questions right and pick the right distribution and you have your survey. It is just part of human nature. Worry about your job and food on your table. Given that is the subject in the survey why not Israel? The most likely source to disrupt the flow of oil and impact their jobs. And it follows the US's involvment in Iraq flows along the same lines. So Isreal and the US all are a threat. "For as long as I can remember, I have had memories. Colin Mochrie."
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I'm not a european, but I had seen this the other day. I wasn't quite sure how to interprete it. It's true that the entire Arab world could go ballistic if Israel does something dumb. But, when europeans say, "the Jewish state the biggest threat to world peace", it does not necessarily mean, "they have put the Jewish state below the level of the worst pariah state and terror organizations" - as the Israeli embassy in Brussels put it. In this article, the US was also named as a threat to world peace. Does this mean that europeans think Israel and the US are the worst nations in the world? Actually, no. Being "a threat to world peace" involves a whole bunch of factors. One of them is power. Most nations in the world are simply too weak to be any threat to world peace. If most nations suddenly decided to invade their neighbors, the world would be against them and they would quickly find themselves on the losing end of a war. It's a little bit like having 5 people in a canoe and asking, "Who is the greatest threat to turning the canoe over?" You have a young 50 pound kid in the canoe who throws temper tantrums. You also have a 300 pound man in the canoe. Even though the child is far more likely to stand up and try to flip the canoe, he simply doesn't have enough weight to do it. Essentially, nothing he does can threaten to overturn the canoe. The 300 pound man, on the other hand, might flip the canoe on accident. Who is the greatest threat to turning over the canoe? The 300 pound man. Israel is in an unusual position because Arabs watch it closely and it's actions can spark a war in the Middle East. On the other hand, Saddam can kill hundreds of thousands of Kurds in Iraq and there's no chance of sparking a large Middle-Eastern war because, quite frankly, Arabs care about oppression of the Palestinians by Jews a whole lot more than oppression of the Kurds by Saddam. If the Arabs suddenly decided that they really, really cared about the Kurds in the late 1980s/early 1990s, then the Ansfal campaign would've ignited the Arab world into a firestorm of war - and, therefore, Saddam Hussein would've been a threat to Middle-Eastern peace (though, maybe not world peace since the fighting would've been confined to the Middle East). If Israel did an Ansfal campaign on the Palestinians, it would erupt into big, big problems. For those reasons (and probably several others), it is incorrect to translate "the Jewish state the biggest threat to world peace", into "they have put the Jewish state below the lev
Very well said. 5 "For as long as I can remember, I have had memories. Colin Mochrie."
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Mike Gaskey wrote: the population of several southern states (Florida, Arizona, Nevada) While Florida may qualify, Arizona and Nevada are not generally included in the term South when referring to the various regions of the US. Most of the population here is comprised of Californians who are sick of the police state the PRC has become, and natives who have never had any interest in anything that police state has to offer. Sadly, some of the same morons who destroyed the once great state of CA are also migrating here, and are trying to destroy AZ and NV with their paternalistic ideas about how a government should run. Apparently you can't teach an old idiot new tricks any easier than you can an old dog. While I don't see any indication that those in the Southwest have any lower IQs than anywhere else, the schools are terrible. Having little industry other than gambling the schools are impoverished, as is most of the population, and even the teachers are illiterate. Fortunately, ignorance can be cured given time and resources, and we're working on that.:-D "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot."Roger Wright wrote: the schools are terrible. I think we as a nation have that problem. Too much effort trying to be fair to all, resulting in standardizing on the worst. The Texas standardization testing has only lead to the teachers spending most of their time teaching test taking and only occasionally teaching. This has lead to many good teachers leaving and those happy with it staying. Sorry but the rich kids do get more favors, live with it and lets get back to education, That part does not cost that much! "For as long as I can remember, I have had memories. Colin Mochrie."
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EU embarrassed as poll labels Israel world's biggest threat Bit odd that though. How is Israel a threat to the world? Any Europeans care to comment? p.s. For those of you who are about to once again inform us that you don't give a rats arse about Europe, sod off. We already know. Give it up already. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: "Cynicism has it's place in life - but it should be kept well away from your inner self." Crikey! ain't life grand?
Paul Watson wrote: EU embarrassed as poll labels Israel world's biggest threat Bit odd that though. How is Israel a threat to the world? Any Europeans care to comment? [Disclaimer: I am not a European] I don't know the exact wording of the question, but being a threat to "world peace" doesn't necessarily require that a country be a threat to the world. Any regional conflict is presumably inconsistent with world peace. Israel has been involved in four wars since its founding --- in 1956, 1967, 1973 and 1982. It maintains a policy of political assassination and periodically launches military incursions into foreign territory. Israel is engaged in an ongoing conflict with the Palestinians that, in and of itself, is inconsistent with world peace. Some of the Israeli actions in these matters may have been justified but I don't think it is great stretch to regard Israel as a threat to Middle East peace and hence to world peace, nor is it obvious that any other single Middle East country (Iran, Egypt, Lebanon...) is a greater threat. Israel is actually not likely to provoke any fully-fledged wars these days because it is so militarily dominant over its neighbours that they will decline to react to low-level military incursions (witness Syria's recent non-response to an Israeli military incursion) and because Israel's territorial ambitions appear to be limited. Israel is primarily relevant because of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the way that conflict influences political attitudes among Arabs, Muslims and Americans. As far as a threat to world peace goes, I would have given my top vote to the US. John Carson
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I'm not a european, but I had seen this the other day. I wasn't quite sure how to interprete it. It's true that the entire Arab world could go ballistic if Israel does something dumb. But, when europeans say, "the Jewish state the biggest threat to world peace", it does not necessarily mean, "they have put the Jewish state below the level of the worst pariah state and terror organizations" - as the Israeli embassy in Brussels put it. In this article, the US was also named as a threat to world peace. Does this mean that europeans think Israel and the US are the worst nations in the world? Actually, no. Being "a threat to world peace" involves a whole bunch of factors. One of them is power. Most nations in the world are simply too weak to be any threat to world peace. If most nations suddenly decided to invade their neighbors, the world would be against them and they would quickly find themselves on the losing end of a war. It's a little bit like having 5 people in a canoe and asking, "Who is the greatest threat to turning the canoe over?" You have a young 50 pound kid in the canoe who throws temper tantrums. You also have a 300 pound man in the canoe. Even though the child is far more likely to stand up and try to flip the canoe, he simply doesn't have enough weight to do it. Essentially, nothing he does can threaten to overturn the canoe. The 300 pound man, on the other hand, might flip the canoe on accident. Who is the greatest threat to turning over the canoe? The 300 pound man. Israel is in an unusual position because Arabs watch it closely and it's actions can spark a war in the Middle East. On the other hand, Saddam can kill hundreds of thousands of Kurds in Iraq and there's no chance of sparking a large Middle-Eastern war because, quite frankly, Arabs care about oppression of the Palestinians by Jews a whole lot more than oppression of the Kurds by Saddam. If the Arabs suddenly decided that they really, really cared about the Kurds in the late 1980s/early 1990s, then the Ansfal campaign would've ignited the Arab world into a firestorm of war - and, therefore, Saddam Hussein would've been a threat to Middle-Eastern peace (though, maybe not world peace since the fighting would've been confined to the Middle East). If Israel did an Ansfal campaign on the Palestinians, it would erupt into big, big problems. For those reasons (and probably several others), it is incorrect to translate "the Jewish state the biggest threat to world peace", into "they have put the Jewish state below the lev
I also agree with your analysis. The Israelis are reading the survey the wrong way. In some respects it is beneficial to Israel, that Europeans are noticing them. But any nation that has real or suspected Nukes||MWDs is a real threat to world peace. Regardz Colin J Davies
*** WARNING *
This could be addictive
**The minion's version of "Catch :bob: "It's a real shame that people as stupid as you can work out how to use a computer. said by Christian Graus in the Soapbox
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I also agree with your analysis. The Israelis are reading the survey the wrong way. In some respects it is beneficial to Israel, that Europeans are noticing them. But any nation that has real or suspected Nukes||MWDs is a real threat to world peace. Regardz Colin J Davies
*** WARNING *
This could be addictive
**The minion's version of "Catch :bob: "It's a real shame that people as stupid as you can work out how to use a computer. said by Christian Graus in the Soapbox
ColinDavies wrote: But any nation that has real or suspected Nukes||MWDs is a real threat to world peace. Agreed, and that includes any shipping container filled with the right chemicals. So who isn't :sigh: "For as long as I can remember, I have had memories. Colin Mochrie."
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EU embarrassed as poll labels Israel world's biggest threat Bit odd that though. How is Israel a threat to the world? Any Europeans care to comment? p.s. For those of you who are about to once again inform us that you don't give a rats arse about Europe, sod off. We already know. Give it up already. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: "Cynicism has it's place in life - but it should be kept well away from your inner self." Crikey! ain't life grand?
Paul Watson wrote: For those of you who are about to once again inform us that you don't give a rats arse about Europe, sod off What's a "Europe"?????
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Paul Watson wrote: gung ho Texans Just to set the record straight: 1) the gung ho Texan is leading a nation that is at war - middle America undestands that and care little about what the ignorant sods of Europe think. 2) the south is far from ignorant. Point in fact, the population of several southern states (Florida, Arizona, Nevada) include a significant proportion of wealthy retirees who find the northern welfare states (read as: high tax rates on anyone willing to actually work) a poor retirement choice 3) the south includes blacks who are returning for various reasons; 4) the south includes a significant population of illegals that prefer our south to their north; 5) the south includes a healthy economy based on technology, finance, farming and energy; 6) the south includes the fastest growing population areas of the country. I haven't of course been able to compare average IQ levels of Southerners to Europeans nor have I been able to determine actual knowledge levels of Southerners as compared to Europeans, so I really couldn't say which is the more ignorant. Mike "liberals are being driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." by: JAMES TRAUB New York Times Loyal member of the vast right wing conspiracy
Mike Gaskey wrote: Just to set the record straight: It is funny that all of your points indicate that the only reason the south is so nifty is because people from outside the south are moving there.
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