Company Website Frustration
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I'm part of a development team that works very hard (60 - 80 hours/week) to produce solid, reliable software products for our clients. Despite all our hard work and effort, the portion of our company's website that has information for our product is never updated. The cause: our Marketing department, for whatever reason, is the group that "maintains" this site. I feel strongly that this is a direct reflection on our group, and have voiced my opinion as such ... several times ... I've been told that it's being "taken care of", but we're about to release a new version of our software, and the the site hasn't even been updated to reflect our LAST release!?! Now, I would be worried if I knew our group wasn't pulling in sales, but the product we develop is one of the company's top sellers, and our Tablet PC product scored more sales than any other product in the last 7 years! So it's not our product, it's not our team. I was wondering how many other developers out there suffer the same type of issues, where the company's website is maintained by another group, and that group doesn't have the "drive and focus", perhaps, that you do ... so the site never reflects what you've done. I'm to the point where I'm wondering if I'm the only person that gives two &#!^$ about what our clients think of us. :mad: Are there solutions to this? Other then my going down to the marketing department with a flame thrower I mean ... although ... o.k., No, I can't do that, I'd ruin all the nice cubicals down there. :rolleyes: D.
Sounds like this case::laugh: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20031012.html[^] I try to think but nothing happens.
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I thought the only benefit to programming in a cubicle as a dead-eyed corporate lackey was so you didn't have to worry about stuff like that? ;P If you care so much about the company's image, you should be in business for yourself...no?
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I support two teams: the Canucks and whoever is playing the Leafs!Douglas, sack up and go into business yourself. Why would you bust your hump 60/80 hours a week for a presumably, a salaried position? You obviously know how to produce a quality product and are concerned about its presentation/marketing, so quit working working your a$$ off for someone else, and get compensated appropriately for a job well done. Jim QTExtender - The OFFICIAL addon for QuoteTracker.
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I bet that the webmaster is already reading this based on wondering why the site has suddenly slowed to a crawl and there are thousands of hits from some "codeproject" site he's never heard of.:-D
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I support two teams: the Canucks and whoever is playing the Leafs!John Cardinal wrote: I bet that the webmaster is already reading this If Marketing is in charge of the website, it's unlikely that anyone has noticed the traffic. Most of that sort have trouble figuring out email and playing solitaire. More likely some poor sap in IT is stuck with the duty, backtracing the hits recorded in the log, reading these posts, and laughing his arse off. "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot." -
Douglas, sack up and go into business yourself. Why would you bust your hump 60/80 hours a week for a presumably, a salaried position? You obviously know how to produce a quality product and are concerned about its presentation/marketing, so quit working working your a$$ off for someone else, and get compensated appropriately for a job well done. Jim QTExtender - The OFFICIAL addon for QuoteTracker.
My thoughts exactly, but I already do that you should tell Douglas, not me! ;P
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I support two teams: the Canucks and whoever is playing the Leafs! -
I'm part of a development team that works very hard (60 - 80 hours/week) to produce solid, reliable software products for our clients. Despite all our hard work and effort, the portion of our company's website that has information for our product is never updated. The cause: our Marketing department, for whatever reason, is the group that "maintains" this site. I feel strongly that this is a direct reflection on our group, and have voiced my opinion as such ... several times ... I've been told that it's being "taken care of", but we're about to release a new version of our software, and the the site hasn't even been updated to reflect our LAST release!?! Now, I would be worried if I knew our group wasn't pulling in sales, but the product we develop is one of the company's top sellers, and our Tablet PC product scored more sales than any other product in the last 7 years! So it's not our product, it's not our team. I was wondering how many other developers out there suffer the same type of issues, where the company's website is maintained by another group, and that group doesn't have the "drive and focus", perhaps, that you do ... so the site never reflects what you've done. I'm to the point where I'm wondering if I'm the only person that gives two &#!^$ about what our clients think of us. :mad: Are there solutions to this? Other then my going down to the marketing department with a flame thrower I mean ... although ... o.k., No, I can't do that, I'd ruin all the nice cubicals down there. :rolleyes: D.
Douglas Troy wrote: Are there solutions to this? Like so many other things in the business world, it all comes down to people, and knowing how to deal with them. In this particular case, you have 2 or perhaps 3 individual tribes in the mix: your group, the marketing group, and (perhaps) the management group who could exercise authority over the marketing group. Without going into long and involved explanations, the fundamental solution to this problem involves finding the key people in those other 2 tribes who have the authority to make these changes a reality. You must then approach them based not on what you want (nobody cares about your> agenda, only their own), but on what's in it for them if they do as you request. The combination of finding people with authority, making your agenda appealing to them personally, and the basic people skills necessary to have these conversations will take you a long way towards the solution you desire. Don't fall into the trap of appealing based on the "good of the company", "what's the right thing to do", etc. Nobody cares. Make it personally appealing to the individuals you speak to, i.e. focus on what they get out of it individually if they support you. If you can't answer that last question, then why should they support you? Chistopher Duncan The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success RSS feed - News & notifications
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You're preaching to the choir. :-D Our company website (although it's 100x better than it used to be) is hopelessly crappy. Check it out at ****Removed due to lack of competition**** Notice the blocky graphics? Notice the incoherent navigation? Notice the complete lack of product or software support? I could go on and on... X| Let's have a contest! Whose company has the worst website! Rate this post to give your opinion of "our" website. 5 = Great site! 3 = Average. 1 = "My eyes are bleeding!" <EDIT> So far 17 fine folks have rated "our" site for an average of 1.2. A score which is very generous in my humble opinion ;P , but this is supposed to be a contest as well! I've seen thousands of awful sites over the years, as bad as "ours" is, it doesn't stand alone. I'm sure "yours" aren't perfect either. Let's see a few more! </EDIT> <EDIT2> Ya bunch of weasels! :mad: Not one of you had the cajones to offer your sucky company web site in competition. I should have guessed. :rolleyes: :laugh: </EDIT2> All I've ever wanted was an honest week's pay for an honest day's work.
Thats pretty bad.
"Je pense, donc je mange." - Rene Descartes 1689 - Just before his mother put his tea on the table. Shameless Plug - Distributed Database Transactions in .NET using COM+
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Douglas, sack up and go into business yourself. Why would you bust your hump 60/80 hours a week for a presumably, a salaried position? You obviously know how to produce a quality product and are concerned about its presentation/marketing, so quit working working your a$$ off for someone else, and get compensated appropriately for a job well done. Jim QTExtender - The OFFICIAL addon for QuoteTracker.
Believe me, these are generally the kinds of reasons that drive people, like myself, to do just that ... I can neither confirm nor deny I am making such efforts. There comes a point in a company's "life cycle", where it becomes so large that the person, or persons, that started the organization, caring or not, can no longer manage it's every day functions. At that point, they must make a decision as to what is "important" and what they must hand over to others, in hopes that they too will make every effort to ensure a job well done. Eventually, person's that are uncaring will get into the corporate structure, and breed, and unless people like myself don't "make a stand", these people will continue to "drive" the company in very bad directions; that is why I am still here. But I guess there must come a time when even I must make the decision as to how much influence I have over the engine that makes the company "go". I wish more people would take pride in their work instead of taking the "It's not MY job" attitude that most take. If more people cared, and less took the path of "least resistance", then we could all profit from a job well done. D.
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Douglas Troy wrote: Are there solutions to this? Like so many other things in the business world, it all comes down to people, and knowing how to deal with them. In this particular case, you have 2 or perhaps 3 individual tribes in the mix: your group, the marketing group, and (perhaps) the management group who could exercise authority over the marketing group. Without going into long and involved explanations, the fundamental solution to this problem involves finding the key people in those other 2 tribes who have the authority to make these changes a reality. You must then approach them based not on what you want (nobody cares about your> agenda, only their own), but on what's in it for them if they do as you request. The combination of finding people with authority, making your agenda appealing to them personally, and the basic people skills necessary to have these conversations will take you a long way towards the solution you desire. Don't fall into the trap of appealing based on the "good of the company", "what's the right thing to do", etc. Nobody cares. Make it personally appealing to the individuals you speak to, i.e. focus on what they get out of it individually if they support you. If you can't answer that last question, then why should they support you? Chistopher Duncan The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success RSS feed - News & notifications
Chris, I have read several of your 'on-line' books and agree with many of your concepts and ideas. My issues are that I am trapped by layers of Mgt., and our marketing group's desire to generally do nothing ... I have begun to push harder on these issues with others that have more power in the corporate structure, to "get them on board"; as you have mentioned here. I guess I find the answer to the last question, Christopher Duncan wrote: what they get out of it individually if they support you obvious, and I think these individuals in the organzation should as well ... what they "get out of it" is a better company, with more clients, a higher profit, which means a better pay scale and an overall increase in job security and happeiness. I guess I'm just a rebel in this thought process, however ... D.
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I'm part of a development team that works very hard (60 - 80 hours/week) to produce solid, reliable software products for our clients. Despite all our hard work and effort, the portion of our company's website that has information for our product is never updated. The cause: our Marketing department, for whatever reason, is the group that "maintains" this site. I feel strongly that this is a direct reflection on our group, and have voiced my opinion as such ... several times ... I've been told that it's being "taken care of", but we're about to release a new version of our software, and the the site hasn't even been updated to reflect our LAST release!?! Now, I would be worried if I knew our group wasn't pulling in sales, but the product we develop is one of the company's top sellers, and our Tablet PC product scored more sales than any other product in the last 7 years! So it's not our product, it's not our team. I was wondering how many other developers out there suffer the same type of issues, where the company's website is maintained by another group, and that group doesn't have the "drive and focus", perhaps, that you do ... so the site never reflects what you've done. I'm to the point where I'm wondering if I'm the only person that gives two &#!^$ about what our clients think of us. :mad: Are there solutions to this? Other then my going down to the marketing department with a flame thrower I mean ... although ... o.k., No, I can't do that, I'd ruin all the nice cubicals down there. :rolleyes: D.
What kind of products are these? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: "Cynicism has it's place in life - but it should be kept well away from your inner self." Crikey! ain't life grand?
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What kind of products are these? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: "Cynicism has it's place in life - but it should be kept well away from your inner self." Crikey! ain't life grand?
Medical. All medical. D.
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Chris, I have read several of your 'on-line' books and agree with many of your concepts and ideas. My issues are that I am trapped by layers of Mgt., and our marketing group's desire to generally do nothing ... I have begun to push harder on these issues with others that have more power in the corporate structure, to "get them on board"; as you have mentioned here. I guess I find the answer to the last question, Christopher Duncan wrote: what they get out of it individually if they support you obvious, and I think these individuals in the organzation should as well ... what they "get out of it" is a better company, with more clients, a higher profit, which means a better pay scale and an overall increase in job security and happeiness. I guess I'm just a rebel in this thought process, however ... D.
You have to realize that people like you are in the top 1% of the human race because you instinctively connect the dots. Don't expect others to share your talents. It's a strategy that will leave you empty handed every time. To most, a better company, more clients, and a higher profit means nothing. They get no direct or immediate benefit from this. In fact, you'll hear them grouse, "why should I make more money for the company - I never see a dime of it." You, of course, have vision and employ long term thinking, and can therefore see the relationship to a better pay scale and an overall increase in job security and happeiness. But if everyone had your vision, you wouldn't have the problem to begin with, now, would you? :-) The trick to instituting change, particularly when you're in the very common situation of being trapped by layers of Mgt., is to deal with people, and their personal desires and ambitions, individually. You have to do the math for them, and you have to show them a direct cause and effect relationship that they'll feel in their own self centered little world. You don't have the power to give them a raise. However, that's not the only thing that motivates people. How about ego? Power? Competition? That's why I say you have to look at the individual. Everyone has hot buttons. You just haven't found them yet. Chistopher Duncan The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success RSS feed - News & notifications
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I'm part of a development team that works very hard (60 - 80 hours/week) to produce solid, reliable software products for our clients. Despite all our hard work and effort, the portion of our company's website that has information for our product is never updated. The cause: our Marketing department, for whatever reason, is the group that "maintains" this site. I feel strongly that this is a direct reflection on our group, and have voiced my opinion as such ... several times ... I've been told that it's being "taken care of", but we're about to release a new version of our software, and the the site hasn't even been updated to reflect our LAST release!?! Now, I would be worried if I knew our group wasn't pulling in sales, but the product we develop is one of the company's top sellers, and our Tablet PC product scored more sales than any other product in the last 7 years! So it's not our product, it's not our team. I was wondering how many other developers out there suffer the same type of issues, where the company's website is maintained by another group, and that group doesn't have the "drive and focus", perhaps, that you do ... so the site never reflects what you've done. I'm to the point where I'm wondering if I'm the only person that gives two &#!^$ about what our clients think of us. :mad: Are there solutions to this? Other then my going down to the marketing department with a flame thrower I mean ... although ... o.k., No, I can't do that, I'd ruin all the nice cubicals down there. :rolleyes: D.
If it's simply a matter of changing some verbiage or adding a few bullet points (which I doubt, or you would not have posted such a story), I'm sure you could convince the IT folks that you need access to the Web server to make some content changes. If it's the actual layout and presentation that needs a facelift, input from current/potential clients is the only thing that will get them going.
Five birds are sitting on a fence. Three of them decide to fly off. How many are left?
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Medical. All medical. D.
Douglas Troy wrote: Medical. All medical. Given your current dilemma, I hope it involves antacids... :-D Chistopher Duncan The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success RSS feed - News & notifications
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If it's simply a matter of changing some verbiage or adding a few bullet points (which I doubt, or you would not have posted such a story), I'm sure you could convince the IT folks that you need access to the Web server to make some content changes. If it's the actual layout and presentation that needs a facelift, input from current/potential clients is the only thing that will get them going.
Five birds are sitting on a fence. Three of them decide to fly off. How many are left?
I wish that were the case, but it is not ... Most of the changes needed are text based changes. We do need to include some new screens, but that's simple. We turn over full-blown documentation and screens with each release (they have all that - they could cut&paste). The IT group will not just "give me access", since the site is controlled and maintained by another dept. - it's not that easy (yes, I've asked). There are procedures and policies in place that people follow ... We've also had customers complain ... You are correct, I would not have posted this if it had been that simple. Perhaps I can get more customers to call about it ... I've considered that as well. D.
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Douglas Troy wrote: Medical. All medical. Given your current dilemma, I hope it involves antacids... :-D Chistopher Duncan The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World Unite the Tribes: Ending Turf Wars for Career and Business Success RSS feed - News & notifications
Yes, yes it does ... lots and lots ... I actually have a bottle sitting here on my desk. :~ D.
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Believe me, these are generally the kinds of reasons that drive people, like myself, to do just that ... I can neither confirm nor deny I am making such efforts. There comes a point in a company's "life cycle", where it becomes so large that the person, or persons, that started the organization, caring or not, can no longer manage it's every day functions. At that point, they must make a decision as to what is "important" and what they must hand over to others, in hopes that they too will make every effort to ensure a job well done. Eventually, person's that are uncaring will get into the corporate structure, and breed, and unless people like myself don't "make a stand", these people will continue to "drive" the company in very bad directions; that is why I am still here. But I guess there must come a time when even I must make the decision as to how much influence I have over the engine that makes the company "go". I wish more people would take pride in their work instead of taking the "It's not MY job" attitude that most take. If more people cared, and less took the path of "least resistance", then we could all profit from a job well done. D.
Douglas Troy wrote: I wish more people would take pride in their work instead of taking the "It's not MY job" attitude that most take. If more people cared, and less took the path of "least resistance", then we could all profit from a job well done. Douglas - You're doing the work of probably four average programmers (60-80 hrs a week with quality work and a prospering product). IMHO, and may not agree, but even if the website was dandy and everyone was doing their part, you're still getting the shaft. If you tell me that you're a salaried position and that product takes in multi-million dollars in revenues, I am going to vomit on myself right now. Douglas, you ARE the brains behind this product. This should be a wake-up call to venture out on your own. Then you have no one to praise but yourself for the success of such a wonderful product. :) Jim QTExtender - The OFFICIAL addon for QuoteTracker.
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You're preaching to the choir. :-D Our company website (although it's 100x better than it used to be) is hopelessly crappy. Check it out at ****Removed due to lack of competition**** Notice the blocky graphics? Notice the incoherent navigation? Notice the complete lack of product or software support? I could go on and on... X| Let's have a contest! Whose company has the worst website! Rate this post to give your opinion of "our" website. 5 = Great site! 3 = Average. 1 = "My eyes are bleeding!" <EDIT> So far 17 fine folks have rated "our" site for an average of 1.2. A score which is very generous in my humble opinion ;P , but this is supposed to be a contest as well! I've seen thousands of awful sites over the years, as bad as "ours" is, it doesn't stand alone. I'm sure "yours" aren't perfect either. Let's see a few more! </EDIT> <EDIT2> Ya bunch of weasels! :mad: Not one of you had the cajones to offer your sucky company web site in competition. I should have guessed. :rolleyes: :laugh: </EDIT2> All I've ever wanted was an honest week's pay for an honest day's work.
I can't get to the site...you better hope your boss doesn't find out about this... ;)
When I can talk about 64 bit processors and attract girls with my computer not my car, I'll come out of the closet. Until that time...I'm like "What's the ENTER key?" -Hockey on being a geek
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I can't get to the site...you better hope your boss doesn't find out about this... ;)
When I can talk about 64 bit processors and attract girls with my computer not my car, I'll come out of the closet. Until that time...I'm like "What's the ENTER key?" -Hockey on being a geek
David Stone wrote: I can't get to the site Count your blessings. ;P David Stone wrote: you better hope your boss doesn't find out about this Hehe! That's assuming they know how to determine where all the hits are coming from, or that I frequent CodeProject, or bother to read the Lounge posts where I ridicule the site. Each a long shot on it's own, combined... I'm golden!!! :-D All I've ever wanted was an honest week's pay for an honest day's work.
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I thought the intro was Etch-A-Sketch:~ I am baffled by the way the buttons spawn another, smaller window with the same thing, with no maximize button.:confused: I guess the page border makes some sense, dealing with construction. I try to think but nothing happens.
Richard Jones wrote: I thought the intro was Etch-A-Sketch :laugh: Later, JoeSox One thing vampire children have to be taught early on is, don't run with wooden stakes. --Jack Handy Deep Thoughts www.joeswammi.com ↔ www.humanaiproject.org
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Douglas Troy wrote: I wish more people would take pride in their work instead of taking the "It's not MY job" attitude that most take. If more people cared, and less took the path of "least resistance", then we could all profit from a job well done. Douglas - You're doing the work of probably four average programmers (60-80 hrs a week with quality work and a prospering product). IMHO, and may not agree, but even if the website was dandy and everyone was doing their part, you're still getting the shaft. If you tell me that you're a salaried position and that product takes in multi-million dollars in revenues, I am going to vomit on myself right now. Douglas, you ARE the brains behind this product. This should be a wake-up call to venture out on your own. Then you have no one to praise but yourself for the success of such a wonderful product. :) Jim QTExtender - The OFFICIAL addon for QuoteTracker.
I appreciate your remarks, I will not go as far as to say I'm personally the brains behind the product, as there are others on my "team" that make significant contributions ... a few that work just as hard. as to your comment: AAntix wrote: If you tell me that you're a salaried position and that product takes in multi-million dollars in revenues, I am going to vomit on myself right now uh ... I'll go get you a wash cloth D.