A surprising confession
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It is TRULY a sad statement on humanity - and especially the western world - that places still exist in which one's sexual orientation can cause them social discomfort. I learned humility and acceptance years ago when I realized that a) my best friend was gay and b) I had made disgustingly hateful comments about homosexuals to him. I know now how such ignorance can affect people, and I only hope that I never have to deal with someone who acts as I did. Best of luck to you. I hope that if nowhere else, this is a forum in which you can truly express yourself without fear of retribution. J - Peace and Love
I do hope so. This is difficult enough for me to deal with on its own without having to cope with people's prejudice as well. the one thing that keeps me going is knowing I've finally admitted to myself - and a few close friends - who I really am. That is something I thought I'd never be able to do, so I must be getting somewhere! Thank you so much Jamie :rose:
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John? No, only kidding :) As I see it, Anna, do what you like with your life, so long as you enjoy it - but not the expense of others. You only get one go at it, so why not? I have a friend who is a homosexual, and one time a few years back he told me, expecting that I would sever all ties with him. Instead, he is one of my closest friends. In fact, all my other friends took the "Good for you" or "So what?" viewpoints when they were told. Don't let preconceivied opinions keep you down. If thy can't accept you for who you really are, they aren't worth knowing. Even if they are family. I really do mean that. Although I can't help feeling a little awkward at the idea of changing sex, it is mainly because I can't understand why you'd want to. Then again, I felt the same way towards homosexuality before I actually realised first hand that it doesn't make the slightest difference in any way to the person. We can spend our whole lives worrying about what other people think of us - it just isn't worth it. If you are seeking councelling, however, see if they can offer any advice for telling your family and friends who do not know. If you time it wrong you could prematurely end a good relationship. Good Luck! :rose:
:cool: -=:suss:=-
David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
Thanks Dave. The last thing I want to do is hurt my family. I know how sensitive a subject this is, so I'm being very careful. Fortunately I have good friends and counsellors who are doing everything they can to help. In no way am I rushing into this - there's just too much at stake if I mess it up. Anna :rose:
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:D LOL. Is this like, "Three strikes you're out!" ? Can't blame you for trying. This is definetely strange. Let me sum it up: 1. This is a man who's sexually attracted to women. 2. Yet he feels like he should really be inside a woman's body. This probably implies that he wants to: a. have a vagina, b. have boobies, c. have menstrual periods, d. shave his (her) legs, e. wear heels, f. spend lots of money at the beauty parlor, g. spend time putting on make up, h. have children! 3. To top it all off, he also wants to do all these things with a woman by his side. Wow, I'm outta here! Regards, Alvaro
Wow, I'm outta here! Great. See ya. Isn't there already enough intolerance in the world? Look around you. Buildings are falling. Those who aren't starving to death or having limbs blown off by land mines are being carpet-bombed. Time to grow up a little. What this world needs is less intolerance, less hatred towards that which they don't understand, and more effort on our parts to try to understand things outside our own little worlds. Can you picture a world without hate? My first child will be born in a few months, and I really don't want them to know that people like you exist. Good day. J
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:D LOL. Is this like, "Three strikes you're out!" ? Can't blame you for trying. This is definetely strange. Let me sum it up: 1. This is a man who's sexually attracted to women. 2. Yet he feels like he should really be inside a woman's body. This probably implies that he wants to: a. have a vagina, b. have boobies, c. have menstrual periods, d. shave his (her) legs, e. wear heels, f. spend lots of money at the beauty parlor, g. spend time putting on make up, h. have children! 3. To top it all off, he also wants to do all these things with a woman by his side. Wow, I'm outta here! Regards, Alvaro
Hi Alvaro. As I said to John, I don't blame you at all. The only way I can explain it is to say that regardless of physical sex or upbringing, I know I'm female. That may be hard to understand for you, but trust me when I say that it can happen, and it's not something the sufferer has any control over. My sexual orientation is more likely a product of my male upbringing than anything else. Who knows? I certainly don't. Trust me on one thing. Nobody is more confused or upset about this than me. :confused:
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Wow, I'm outta here! Great. See ya. Isn't there already enough intolerance in the world? Look around you. Buildings are falling. Those who aren't starving to death or having limbs blown off by land mines are being carpet-bombed. Time to grow up a little. What this world needs is less intolerance, less hatred towards that which they don't understand, and more effort on our parts to try to understand things outside our own little worlds. Can you picture a world without hate? My first child will be born in a few months, and I really don't want them to know that people like you exist. Good day. J
OK, I'm back now. I understand what Anna wants and I respect it. But you have to admit that it's weird, no? That was my point. I'm sorry if it came across as me being intolerant. I'm really not. But I can be certainly express amazement, can't I? Or is that only allowed when planes fly into buildings now? Good day to you too! Alvaro
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Although I've been visiting this site for a while, I'm posting this under my "inner" rather than my birth name, for reasons which should become obvious. :-O Some of you may be offended or shocked by what I have to say, and if so you have my sincerest apologies. That is not my intention. To quote Paul Watson a couple of days ago in the Programmers and Atheists thread: Actually, and this is an OLD joke: I am a Lesbian trapped in a mans body. :laugh: Seeing this prompted me to sound you all out on something which I have to face. I guess I'm testing the water to see what reaction I get when I finally tell people about it! You see, for some people (including myself) it's not just a joke, but a reality, and a very painful one at that. I should explain that physically I'm male, but my mind is most definately female (I've always known this but recently took several psychological tests which confirmed it). Since I'm attracted to women rather than men, that places me squarely inside the bounds of the joke! It's just as well that I can laugh at myself... ;P If you met me you would probably never know who I truly was unless I wanted you to (my mannerisms are not effeminate, although I do get very emotional). Over the years I've grown very adept at concealing my true self - mainly for fear of what would happen if people found out. The condition which causes this is called Gender Dysphoria. It affects both biological males and females at a rate (I'm told) of roughly one per 1000 of the population, and is thought to be caused by a birth defect in which the brain develops as one physical sex, and the body another (read up on fetal development; it's all there). The end result is an individual whose Gender (mental self image) is the opposite of their physical sex. As you can imagine, this is acutely painful, not to mention embarassing for those concerned (society isn't at all tolerant of those who cross the gender divide). It's taken me years to finally get to the point of admitting to others how I feel, and ask for help in dealing with it (I started talking about 6 weeks ago, and finally told my partner a fortnight ago. Right now I'm about to start counselling). Where I go from here, only time will tell. I have a choice of either living with the constant pain I feel right now for the rest of my life (psychiatric treatment doesn't have a history of success with this condition), or undertaking a long, difficult (and expensive) journey to attempt to make my body match
Dude(Dudette?), why'd you have to come out on a site like this? It's hardly an appropriate place for it and I'm sure alot of people here don't really want to hear about it. Geeeeezzz, I'm outta here.... Josh josh@that-guy.net
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Dude(Dudette?), why'd you have to come out on a site like this? It's hardly an appropriate place for it and I'm sure alot of people here don't really want to hear about it. Geeeeezzz, I'm outta here.... Josh josh@that-guy.net
Because Josh, sooner or later I might have to do it for real - without being anonymous. That includes here too - because I guarantee you will recognise my real name if you see it, and sooner or later I may have to change it. Needless to say, I'd rather have some idea of what support or hostility I face before doing so. Anna :rose:
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OK, I'm back now. I understand what Anna wants and I respect it. But you have to admit that it's weird, no? That was my point. I'm sorry if it came across as me being intolerant. I'm really not. But I can be certainly express amazement, can't I? Or is that only allowed when planes fly into buildings now? Good day to you too! Alvaro
Right. My turn to apologize. Sorry for jumping on your post. Your comments came across as making light (in quite a childish manner) of a situation that is clearly important to this person. And I'm not sure that amazement is warranted, but no doubt that's up for debate. :) And Anna, my apologies to you for jumping in as well. How do you feel about people making light? On one hand, one person talking and joking about it is one less person ignoring your troubles and one more person with an opening mind. On the other hand, it might be a little early in the process for jokes? Might they still be misinterpreted as unacceptance? J
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It is TRULY a sad statement on humanity - and especially the western world - that places still exist in which one's sexual orientation can cause them social discomfort. I learned humility and acceptance years ago when I realized that a) my best friend was gay and b) I had made disgustingly hateful comments about homosexuals to him. I know now how such ignorance can affect people, and I only hope that I never have to deal with someone who acts as I did. Best of luck to you. I hope that if nowhere else, this is a forum in which you can truly express yourself without fear of retribution. J - Peace and Love
I learned humility and acceptance years ago when I realized that a) my best friend was gay and b) I had made disgustingly hateful comments about homosexuals to him I know just how you feel about that. :(( I used to take the piss out of homosexuals, though it was all light hearted and I never meant it, with the benefit of hindsight I can now see I was constantly subjecting my friend to unecessarily awkward situations. No amount of appologise or pints of Fosters can remedy that. Then again, no amount of Fosters can remedy anything! What utter pigs urine.
:cool: -=:suss:=-
David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
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Right. My turn to apologize. Sorry for jumping on your post. Your comments came across as making light (in quite a childish manner) of a situation that is clearly important to this person. And I'm not sure that amazement is warranted, but no doubt that's up for debate. :) And Anna, my apologies to you for jumping in as well. How do you feel about people making light? On one hand, one person talking and joking about it is one less person ignoring your troubles and one more person with an opening mind. On the other hand, it might be a little early in the process for jokes? Might they still be misinterpreted as unacceptance? J
I have mixed feelings about it Jamie. People often joke about things they feel uncomfortable with. While I can understand that (I'll be the same in certain circumstances), in a situation like this it feels that they feel uncomfortable with me, and I'd be lying if I said that didn't hurt. Having said that, I'd far rather face a few light hearted jokes than outright hostility. :) Anna :rose:
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I learned humility and acceptance years ago when I realized that a) my best friend was gay and b) I had made disgustingly hateful comments about homosexuals to him I know just how you feel about that. :(( I used to take the piss out of homosexuals, though it was all light hearted and I never meant it, with the benefit of hindsight I can now see I was constantly subjecting my friend to unecessarily awkward situations. No amount of appologise or pints of Fosters can remedy that. Then again, no amount of Fosters can remedy anything! What utter pigs urine.
:cool: -=:suss:=-
David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
Then again, no amount of Fosters can remedy anything! What utter pigs urine. Seen on the label of an insecticide bottle: "Not for internal use. If swallowed, induce vomitting. Pints of Fosters or Old Milwaukie are recommended for this purpose." J
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I learned humility and acceptance years ago when I realized that a) my best friend was gay and b) I had made disgustingly hateful comments about homosexuals to him I know just how you feel about that. :(( I used to take the piss out of homosexuals, though it was all light hearted and I never meant it, with the benefit of hindsight I can now see I was constantly subjecting my friend to unecessarily awkward situations. No amount of appologise or pints of Fosters can remedy that. Then again, no amount of Fosters can remedy anything! What utter pigs urine.
:cool: -=:suss:=-
David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
lol :-D A few years back (like about 10!) I was given a Fosters t-shirt in my local pub. By the time we left it carried the moto: "Sod Fosters, I'm Drinkin' the Dog" (if you don't know, "The Dog" is slang for Newcastle Brown Ale. I went to too many Dumpy's Rusty Nuts concerts in my youth I suspect... X| ) Anna :rose:
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Hi Alvaro. As I said to John, I don't blame you at all. The only way I can explain it is to say that regardless of physical sex or upbringing, I know I'm female. That may be hard to understand for you, but trust me when I say that it can happen, and it's not something the sufferer has any control over. My sexual orientation is more likely a product of my male upbringing than anything else. Who knows? I certainly don't. Trust me on one thing. Nobody is more confused or upset about this than me. :confused:
Hi Anna, Thanks for understanding my amazement. I kind of feel sorry for making light of your situation a bit; I think I went overboard. I applaud your courage to discuss your condition with others. It was probably something you wanted to do for a long time and finally came out and did. That's a sigh of relief, no? I don't know what else to say except, Good Luck! As strange as this situation is, it's not a "life or death", so you can certainly come out of it just fine. And I have a feeling you will. Regards, Alvaro
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Because Josh, sooner or later I might have to do it for real - without being anonymous. That includes here too - because I guarantee you will recognise my real name if you see it, and sooner or later I may have to change it. Needless to say, I'd rather have some idea of what support or hostility I face before doing so. Anna :rose:
I agree with Josh, you didn't need to bring this up. Nobody realy cares about your sexual orientations ! Apart from you it seems. This lounge is my social life, (See I've got problems too, but I don't go around talking about them) Regardz Colin J Davies
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Right. My turn to apologize. Sorry for jumping on your post. Your comments came across as making light (in quite a childish manner) of a situation that is clearly important to this person. And I'm not sure that amazement is warranted, but no doubt that's up for debate. :) And Anna, my apologies to you for jumping in as well. How do you feel about people making light? On one hand, one person talking and joking about it is one less person ignoring your troubles and one more person with an opening mind. On the other hand, it might be a little early in the process for jokes? Might they still be misinterpreted as unacceptance? J
No problem Jamie. I'm sorry for making light of this situation. Peace out... and this time, I'm definitely outta here! :-) Have a good weekend, Alvaro
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This is too freakin weird of a topic to be discussed here. To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-biters. - Me, 10/03/2001
This is too freakin weird of a topic to be discussed here. I agree whole heartedly with you John. (I don't often) I come to this lounge to put my feet up, open a beer,Listen to music, and relax, as well as talk crap. Regardz Colin J Davies
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lol :-D A few years back (like about 10!) I was given a Fosters t-shirt in my local pub. By the time we left it carried the moto: "Sod Fosters, I'm Drinkin' the Dog" (if you don't know, "The Dog" is slang for Newcastle Brown Ale. I went to too many Dumpy's Rusty Nuts concerts in my youth I suspect... X| ) Anna :rose:
I'm Drinkin' the Dog ... if you don't know, "The Dog" is slang for Newcastle Brown Ale I'm glad you cleared that one up... I was envisioning John and his goat. :eek:
:cool: -=:suss:=-
David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
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I agree with Josh, you didn't need to bring this up. Nobody realy cares about your sexual orientations ! Apart from you it seems. This lounge is my social life, (See I've got problems too, but I don't go around talking about them) Regardz Colin J Davies
I think that analogy doesn't work here. "Anna" said she was testing the water, i.e. checking to see the reactions of people she felt able to talk to. That is a rare occurance, so don't knock it. You may need something similar one day... Anyway, taking it to any of the dedicated transvestite sites would not give her a fair sample. P.S. I hope Anna doesn't mind me calling her "she", it just came naturally due to the name.
:cool: -=:suss:=-
David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
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Although I've been visiting this site for a while, I'm posting this under my "inner" rather than my birth name, for reasons which should become obvious. :-O Some of you may be offended or shocked by what I have to say, and if so you have my sincerest apologies. That is not my intention. To quote Paul Watson a couple of days ago in the Programmers and Atheists thread: Actually, and this is an OLD joke: I am a Lesbian trapped in a mans body. :laugh: Seeing this prompted me to sound you all out on something which I have to face. I guess I'm testing the water to see what reaction I get when I finally tell people about it! You see, for some people (including myself) it's not just a joke, but a reality, and a very painful one at that. I should explain that physically I'm male, but my mind is most definately female (I've always known this but recently took several psychological tests which confirmed it). Since I'm attracted to women rather than men, that places me squarely inside the bounds of the joke! It's just as well that I can laugh at myself... ;P If you met me you would probably never know who I truly was unless I wanted you to (my mannerisms are not effeminate, although I do get very emotional). Over the years I've grown very adept at concealing my true self - mainly for fear of what would happen if people found out. The condition which causes this is called Gender Dysphoria. It affects both biological males and females at a rate (I'm told) of roughly one per 1000 of the population, and is thought to be caused by a birth defect in which the brain develops as one physical sex, and the body another (read up on fetal development; it's all there). The end result is an individual whose Gender (mental self image) is the opposite of their physical sex. As you can imagine, this is acutely painful, not to mention embarassing for those concerned (society isn't at all tolerant of those who cross the gender divide). It's taken me years to finally get to the point of admitting to others how I feel, and ask for help in dealing with it (I started talking about 6 weeks ago, and finally told my partner a fortnight ago. Right now I'm about to start counselling). Where I go from here, only time will tell. I have a choice of either living with the constant pain I feel right now for the rest of my life (psychiatric treatment doesn't have a history of success with this condition), or undertaking a long, difficult (and expensive) journey to attempt to make my body match
Goodness, the stuff you guys and gals talk about when I'm asleep..... Anna ( no, I'm not going to guess ), I must admit it sounds a contradiction to me that you are attracted to women *and* want to be one. I'd like to have a womans body too: I often tell my wife if I did, I would never leave the house. However, if you say you've had counselling, then one would presume this ( rather unusual ) condition is quite real. I guess my point is that if you go ahead with your operation, you have to face the fact that your situtation is unusual enough that it's likely to define the rest of your life. However, if this is who you are, then I suspect you won't be happy unless you pursue it. My personal lifes philosophy is summed up in two words: get stuffed. This is my heartfelt message to anyone who does not accept me for who I am. I suggest you adopt it, you'll probably need it. And as has been said already, no matter what you do with your life, your real friends are the ones who will stick by you, and the rest don't matter. Is it just me, or do we all know each other so well now that we seem comfortable discussing all manner of private things with each other. Someone else said it and I agree - this place has become a large part of my social life too. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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I think that analogy doesn't work here. "Anna" said she was testing the water, i.e. checking to see the reactions of people she felt able to talk to. That is a rare occurance, so don't knock it. You may need something similar one day... Anyway, taking it to any of the dedicated transvestite sites would not give her a fair sample. P.S. I hope Anna doesn't mind me calling her "she", it just came naturally due to the name.
:cool: -=:suss:=-
David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
