Linux, a future?
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Well, if I were some IS manager I'd rather trust Linux than Windows with all my enterprise stuff, with Microsoft's proven track record of vulnerabilities. I understand what you're saying, but it seems like no one's taking SCO seriously any more. I believe several class-action lawsuits are being considered against them, not to mention the ones by the big players that are most likely brewing. I was shocked, too, to hear about RedHat dumping everything to focus on their "enterprise" version. I dunno why they'd do that-- in this market, lots of development talent is still going begging, so it's most likely not that they were strapped for resources. I also doubt that that side of the business was losing money for them. Weird! I've heard that their clustering stuff is pretty speedy, though I've never used it. I'm just bought a license for SuSE to put on a desktop machine at home, because I want to get more familiar w/ Linux. It would've been RedHat if that announcement hadn't come out. Have you heard of anyone buying the new Mac servers? I still haven't. I wouldn't mind playing around with one, that's for sure. I noticed that Bill Joy said good things about the OS in the latest Wired. Regards, Jeff Varszegi
Jeff Varszegi wrote: Well, if I were some IS manager I'd rather trust Linux than Windows with all my enterprise stuff, with Microsoft's proven track record of vulnerabilities Well, if Linux had 90% of the desktop market and it probably would have many itself. OpenHack contests have shown it is vulnerable also, there are no white sheep in this area. I would even go as far as to say Linux is more insecure than Windows since Linux require far more knowledge than Windows to configure properly. Jeff Varszegi wrote: I dunno why they'd do that-- in this market Well, probably just greed as usual. They make big money on the enterprise and the desktop is probably a losing market. Jeff Varszegi wrote: Have you heard of anyone buying the new Mac servers? I still haven't. Well, I am sure there is a market out there but they are new ;) With many Apple fanatics though, they would rather cut off body parts than using anything else, so I would imagine these servers will make it into many businesses no matter if they are good or not. Unless a miracle happens I do not see Linux getting any market share in the desktop. Linux needs to have a decent modern GUI as Apple and Microsoft is shooting at to be a player in the desktop. The other guys (Microsoft and Apple) will start to eat away in the server market as they advance their systems. Rocky <>< www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com
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Rocky Moore wrote: but if I was a Linux supporter I think I would start to wonder a bit! Start? I've always wondered about Linux supporters. :-D Marc Latest AAL Article My blog Join my forum!
I have no problem with supporters. It's the zealots that bug me :). But that goes with everything *mumbles something about those Mac freaks* ;)
I, for one, do not think the problem was that the band was down. I think that the problem may have been that there was a Stonehenge monument on the stage that was in danger of being crushed by a dwarf.
-David St. Hubbins -
I have no problem with supporters. It's the zealots that bug me :). But that goes with everything *mumbles something about those Mac freaks* ;)
I, for one, do not think the problem was that the band was down. I think that the problem may have been that there was a Stonehenge monument on the stage that was in danger of being crushed by a dwarf.
-David St. HubbinsKentamanos wrote: I have no problem with supporters. It's the zealots that bug me Me too. Seems though that zealots are all I've ever found. I guess it takes one to know one. :-D Marc Latest AAL Article My blog Join my forum!
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Jeff Varszegi wrote: Well, if I were some IS manager I'd rather trust Linux than Windows with all my enterprise stuff, with Microsoft's proven track record of vulnerabilities Well, if Linux had 90% of the desktop market and it probably would have many itself. OpenHack contests have shown it is vulnerable also, there are no white sheep in this area. I would even go as far as to say Linux is more insecure than Windows since Linux require far more knowledge than Windows to configure properly. Jeff Varszegi wrote: I dunno why they'd do that-- in this market Well, probably just greed as usual. They make big money on the enterprise and the desktop is probably a losing market. Jeff Varszegi wrote: Have you heard of anyone buying the new Mac servers? I still haven't. Well, I am sure there is a market out there but they are new ;) With many Apple fanatics though, they would rather cut off body parts than using anything else, so I would imagine these servers will make it into many businesses no matter if they are good or not. Unless a miracle happens I do not see Linux getting any market share in the desktop. Linux needs to have a decent modern GUI as Apple and Microsoft is shooting at to be a player in the desktop. The other guys (Microsoft and Apple) will start to eat away in the server market as they advance their systems. Rocky <>< www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com
Rocky Moore wrote: there are no white sheep in this area That's true, but I'll take light gray over deep black any day. I dunno, I just refuse to be a rah-rah guy for Microsoft, after the way they've behaved and the serious security and performance issues with the majority of their products. I do really LOVE some things they've made, like the C# language. I don't love the vaporware, the monopolistic tactics, etc. I'd be more likely to accept that stuff if all their software was perfect, which it's not. I read an article on OpenBSD that said that it was by far the most secure computing platform available, but I've never been at a shop that actually ran it. Now I'm left wondering why-- maybe it has performance flaws? It's a Linux variant too, but I know they're not all the same. I also know that I'm not an expert on any of this. Rocky Moore wrote: With many Apple fanatics though, they would rather cut off body parts than using anything else, so I would imagine these servers will make it into many businesses no matter if they are good or not. Heh. So true. I doubt Apple is going to make big headway in the server market, but it will be interesting to watch. One thing's for absolute sure-- Sun is taking on water. I think that the future of the entire Java platform is way shakier than the future of Linux, unless IBM forces a buyout or something. Rocky Moore wrote: Unless a miracle happens I do not see Linux getting any market share in the desktop. Linux needs to have a decent modern GUI One of the reasons I bought SuSE Linux was the desktop-OS review in PC magazine this month. It says that the KDE desktop is pretty awesome. It could all be marketing hype, for all I know, but maybe I'll let you know how it is when I've played around with it for a while. Regards, Jeff Varszegi
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I do not know if the big boys are just playing games or what, but it seems that lately Linux movement is having big problems and the future does not seem real promising to me.
- SCO and all their possible liabilities. Does not matter if their case is just or not, courts have awarded numerous cases that are not just. You future OS plans resting on a US court?
- China building their own OS (with now the help of SUN).
- Apple OS-X competitor and now moving into the server market.
- And then you have Microsoft and the new Longhorn which may be a way off but I bet there will be a lot of places using the beta before the official release.
- RedHat dumping the desktop users
I am sure there are other things, but if I was a Linux supporter I think I would start to wonder a bit! Rocky <>< www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com
Rocky Moore wrote: Linux movement And there's the problem. Linux was always a "movement" and never a business. Have fun waving your flags.
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I have no problem with supporters. It's the zealots that bug me :). But that goes with everything *mumbles something about those Mac freaks* ;)
I, for one, do not think the problem was that the band was down. I think that the problem may have been that there was a Stonehenge monument on the stage that was in danger of being crushed by a dwarf.
-David St. HubbinsDefinitely. I believe it is possible to like something too much. Just look at the people that go to Star Trek conventions.:~ Brad Jennings Sonork: 100.36360 AIM: hongg99
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Rocky Moore wrote: there are no white sheep in this area That's true, but I'll take light gray over deep black any day. I dunno, I just refuse to be a rah-rah guy for Microsoft, after the way they've behaved and the serious security and performance issues with the majority of their products. I do really LOVE some things they've made, like the C# language. I don't love the vaporware, the monopolistic tactics, etc. I'd be more likely to accept that stuff if all their software was perfect, which it's not. I read an article on OpenBSD that said that it was by far the most secure computing platform available, but I've never been at a shop that actually ran it. Now I'm left wondering why-- maybe it has performance flaws? It's a Linux variant too, but I know they're not all the same. I also know that I'm not an expert on any of this. Rocky Moore wrote: With many Apple fanatics though, they would rather cut off body parts than using anything else, so I would imagine these servers will make it into many businesses no matter if they are good or not. Heh. So true. I doubt Apple is going to make big headway in the server market, but it will be interesting to watch. One thing's for absolute sure-- Sun is taking on water. I think that the future of the entire Java platform is way shakier than the future of Linux, unless IBM forces a buyout or something. Rocky Moore wrote: Unless a miracle happens I do not see Linux getting any market share in the desktop. Linux needs to have a decent modern GUI One of the reasons I bought SuSE Linux was the desktop-OS review in PC magazine this month. It says that the KDE desktop is pretty awesome. It could all be marketing hype, for all I know, but maybe I'll let you know how it is when I've played around with it for a while. Regards, Jeff Varszegi
Jeff Varszegi wrote: I read an article on OpenBSD that said that it was by far the most secure computing platform available, but I've never been at a shop that actually ran it. Now I'm left wondering why-- maybe it has performance flaws? It's a Linux variant too Actually, OpenBSD would be a BSD variant, there is a significant difference between BSD and linux Jeff Varszegi wrote: I just refuse to be a rah-rah guy for Microsoft, after the way they've behaved and the serious security and performance issues with the majority of their products. Thats buisness, If you were to boycott any company that practiced questionable or unethical buisness strategies you would have a very simple life. You most definitely wouldn't be using computers. Matt Newman
I am the anti-linux He was as lame as a duck. Not the metaphorical lame duck, either, but a real duck that was actually lame. Maybe from stepping on a land mine or something. -
Rocky Moore wrote: Linux movement And there's the problem. Linux was always a "movement" and never a business. Have fun waving your flags.
:laugh: Matt Newman
I am the anti-linux He was as lame as a duck. Not the metaphorical lame duck, either, but a real duck that was actually lame. Maybe from stepping on a land mine or something. -
Well, if I were some IS manager I'd rather trust Linux than Windows with all my enterprise stuff, with Microsoft's proven track record of vulnerabilities. I understand what you're saying, but it seems like no one's taking SCO seriously any more. I believe several class-action lawsuits are being considered against them, not to mention the ones by the big players that are most likely brewing. I was shocked, too, to hear about RedHat dumping everything to focus on their "enterprise" version. I dunno why they'd do that-- in this market, lots of development talent is still going begging, so it's most likely not that they were strapped for resources. I also doubt that that side of the business was losing money for them. Weird! I've heard that their clustering stuff is pretty speedy, though I've never used it. I'm just bought a license for SuSE to put on a desktop machine at home, because I want to get more familiar w/ Linux. It would've been RedHat if that announcement hadn't come out. Have you heard of anyone buying the new Mac servers? I still haven't. I wouldn't mind playing around with one, that's for sure. I noticed that Bill Joy said good things about the OS in the latest Wired. Regards, Jeff Varszegi
Jeff Varszegi wrote: with Microsoft's proven track record of vulnerabilities Look up the latest stats on the number of security issues with Windows vs Linux. cheers, Chris Maunder
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Definitely. I believe it is possible to like something too much. Just look at the people that go to Star Trek conventions.:~ Brad Jennings Sonork: 100.36360 AIM: hongg99
If you haven't seen it, rent this: Trekkies Looks like they're making a 2nd one too...
I, for one, do not think the problem was that the band was down. I think that the problem may have been that there was a Stonehenge monument on the stage that was in danger of being crushed by a dwarf.
-David St. Hubbins -
Kentamanos wrote: I have no problem with supporters. It's the zealots that bug me Me too. Seems though that zealots are all I've ever found. I guess it takes one to know one. :-D Marc Latest AAL Article My blog Join my forum!
Marc Clifton wrote: Seems though that zealots are all I've ever found. I think non-zealot supporters aren't as vocal about it maybe. I'm a Linux supporter but I imagine not many people know since I usually end up using Windows most of the time. Brad Jennings Sonork: 100.36360 AIM: hongg99
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If you haven't seen it, rent this: Trekkies Looks like they're making a 2nd one too...
I, for one, do not think the problem was that the band was down. I think that the problem may have been that there was a Stonehenge monument on the stage that was in danger of being crushed by a dwarf.
-David St. HubbinsYikes, they actually made a movie?! I have to see this.:) Brad Jennings Sonork: 100.36360 AIM: hongg99
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Yikes, they actually made a movie?! I have to see this.:) Brad Jennings Sonork: 100.36360 AIM: hongg99
It's a great documentary about Star Trek fanatics. It's worth renting whether you love, hate, or are indifferent to Star Trek.
I, for one, do not think the problem was that the band was down. I think that the problem may have been that there was a Stonehenge monument on the stage that was in danger of being crushed by a dwarf.
-David St. Hubbins -
It's a great documentary about Star Trek fanatics. It's worth renting whether you love, hate, or are indifferent to Star Trek.
I, for one, do not think the problem was that the band was down. I think that the problem may have been that there was a Stonehenge monument on the stage that was in danger of being crushed by a dwarf.
-David St. HubbinsHmm, I might have to give it a rent. Thanks for the suggestion. BTW, I love Star Trek, just not enough to want to dress like a Klingon.;P Brad Jennings Sonork: 100.36360 AIM: hongg99
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If you haven't seen it, rent this: Trekkies Looks like they're making a 2nd one too...
I, for one, do not think the problem was that the band was down. I think that the problem may have been that there was a Stonehenge monument on the stage that was in danger of being crushed by a dwarf.
-David St. HubbinsAccording to the Trekkies 2[^] web site, principal photography is done - whereas, trekkies chronicled only US fans, trekkies 2 "traveled to 8 countries across Europe, North and South America, and Australia. (Africa, Asia, India, and Russia, look out for us in Trekkies 3 in a few years!)...Our best guestimate for release would be mid-2004. We’ll update here as we get more information…" Steve
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Rocky Moore wrote: there are no white sheep in this area That's true, but I'll take light gray over deep black any day. I dunno, I just refuse to be a rah-rah guy for Microsoft, after the way they've behaved and the serious security and performance issues with the majority of their products. I do really LOVE some things they've made, like the C# language. I don't love the vaporware, the monopolistic tactics, etc. I'd be more likely to accept that stuff if all their software was perfect, which it's not. I read an article on OpenBSD that said that it was by far the most secure computing platform available, but I've never been at a shop that actually ran it. Now I'm left wondering why-- maybe it has performance flaws? It's a Linux variant too, but I know they're not all the same. I also know that I'm not an expert on any of this. Rocky Moore wrote: With many Apple fanatics though, they would rather cut off body parts than using anything else, so I would imagine these servers will make it into many businesses no matter if they are good or not. Heh. So true. I doubt Apple is going to make big headway in the server market, but it will be interesting to watch. One thing's for absolute sure-- Sun is taking on water. I think that the future of the entire Java platform is way shakier than the future of Linux, unless IBM forces a buyout or something. Rocky Moore wrote: Unless a miracle happens I do not see Linux getting any market share in the desktop. Linux needs to have a decent modern GUI One of the reasons I bought SuSE Linux was the desktop-OS review in PC magazine this month. It says that the KDE desktop is pretty awesome. It could all be marketing hype, for all I know, but maybe I'll let you know how it is when I've played around with it for a while. Regards, Jeff Varszegi
Jeff Varszegi wrote: I doubt Apple is going to make big headway in the server market Yeah, but when you are talking dual G5's.. They are getting there ;) I believe their core is BSD so, it is just another *inux with a decent GUI ;) Jeff Varszegi wrote: It says that the KDE desktop is pretty awesome Yeah, but there is no comparison of KDE and OS-X GUI. Nor the apps bring shipped that work so well with the Apple GUI. Of course KDE will not even touch the fringe of the Longhorn GUI when it comes out. They have a LOT of work to go before they can even compete with Apple's GUI. For me personally, there is no hope of a Linux variant since there are no equivilants for many of the programs I require. Apple is getting closer but I just don't think I could go with an OS that is so hung up on its user interface that it does not natively support the right mouse button or scroll wheel :) Rocky <>< www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com
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I do not know if the big boys are just playing games or what, but it seems that lately Linux movement is having big problems and the future does not seem real promising to me.
- SCO and all their possible liabilities. Does not matter if their case is just or not, courts have awarded numerous cases that are not just. You future OS plans resting on a US court?
- China building their own OS (with now the help of SUN).
- Apple OS-X competitor and now moving into the server market.
- And then you have Microsoft and the new Longhorn which may be a way off but I bet there will be a lot of places using the beta before the official release.
- RedHat dumping the desktop users
I am sure there are other things, but if I was a Linux supporter I think I would start to wonder a bit! Rocky <>< www.GotTheAnswerToSpam.com
To add to all of the above comments, Linux is growing more acceptance rapidly in the business market. The GUI's are getting better, Installation on new PC's is "almost" a slam dunk. Novell Recently baught SuSe.Here[^] Linus has a new full time job working on the kernel and getting paid for it. IBM is putting Linux on servers instead of OS400 here [^] Walmart sells bottom barrel PC's running Lindows for 199.00 Lindows PC[^] I am not a zeolot, I don't even use Linux regularly but I would like to have an alternative. If for the only reason to get the price down on MS products Jeff Patterson Programmers speak in Code. http://www.anti-dmca.org[^]
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Jeff Varszegi wrote: with Microsoft's proven track record of vulnerabilities Look up the latest stats on the number of security issues with Windows vs Linux. cheers, Chris Maunder
I found a pretty interesting article[^] while I was poking around the net tonight. It seems to me like not only are Windows customers more frustrated than Linux users, but that the numbers may be skewed on the reports cited by Microsoft. I found an interesting message from one of the people who reported a Linux bug in the last year; he said that most of the Linux bugs reported are largely theoretical, while Windows bugs are often found when sites are actually exploited. He said that he found a bug in a piece of IRC software that could theoretically be used in a DOS attack against a server, to slow it down, I guess. I don't see the point of comparing one-for-one an unexploited bug found by a scholar reading source code that would result in an inconvenience until patched, with a bug found through exploitation resulting in anyone being able to run unrestricted code on any Windows machine. How about the many SQL Server 2000 bugs, Exchange bugs, etc.? How many times in the last few months have you patched your machines to avoid any random hacker being able to run unrestricted code if you viewed their website? It seems that no one trumpets information about the Trustworthy Computing Initiative any more. I believe that's because it has become a source of embarrassment for Microsoft (and Bill Gates personally). I will say this, though: the initiative has definitely resulted in much, much faster patches, which is a really big improvement. Regards, Jeff Varszegi
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To add to all of the above comments, Linux is growing more acceptance rapidly in the business market. The GUI's are getting better, Installation on new PC's is "almost" a slam dunk. Novell Recently baught SuSe.Here[^] Linus has a new full time job working on the kernel and getting paid for it. IBM is putting Linux on servers instead of OS400 here [^] Walmart sells bottom barrel PC's running Lindows for 199.00 Lindows PC[^] I am not a zeolot, I don't even use Linux regularly but I would like to have an alternative. If for the only reason to get the price down on MS products Jeff Patterson Programmers speak in Code. http://www.anti-dmca.org[^]
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To add to all of the above comments, Linux is growing more acceptance rapidly in the business market. The GUI's are getting better, Installation on new PC's is "almost" a slam dunk. Novell Recently baught SuSe.Here[^] Linus has a new full time job working on the kernel and getting paid for it. IBM is putting Linux on servers instead of OS400 here [^] Walmart sells bottom barrel PC's running Lindows for 199.00 Lindows PC[^] I am not a zeolot, I don't even use Linux regularly but I would like to have an alternative. If for the only reason to get the price down on MS products Jeff Patterson Programmers speak in Code. http://www.anti-dmca.org[^]
That's all I'm saying! I refuse to be a Microsoft fan for no reason, and I like more options for me to use. Who in their right mind wouldn't? Thank you. Jeff Varszegi