Don't even think of buying a Celeron.
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Roger Wright wrote: Gamers and graphics designers may see a significant difference, but the average Joe who uses Word and Outlook Express will never know the difference How about the average Joe that runs SQL Server, IIS, VS.NET 2002 & 2003, Office and a host of other dev s/w. After Pauls post I'm beginning to think I've been throwing money down the drain. I'm not a gamer at all. Woke up this morning...and got myself a blog
You're talking about apps that require some serious horsepower here; it doesn't apply. If you want to have your money well spent when hosting these apps, I think the fully-leaded CPU and gobs of RAM are well worth the investment. "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot." -
Roger Wright wrote: Gamers and graphics designers may see a significant difference, but the average Joe who uses Word and Outlook Express will never know the difference How about the average Joe that runs SQL Server, IIS, VS.NET 2002 & 2003, Office and a host of other dev s/w. After Pauls post I'm beginning to think I've been throwing money down the drain. I'm not a gamer at all. Woke up this morning...and got myself a blog
I have:
- VS.NET 2002 and 2003
- MS SQL 2000
- Office 2003
- Fireworks
- Photoshop
Those I use regularly all together. At all times I have Outlook, Messenger, Windows Media Player and FeedDemon running. It all runs great for me. The only time it chokes is when I load 200mb graphic files into Photoshop and try and apply some filters. A full-blown P4 might be better for that. Then again, probably better to get a Mac in that case. As Peter mentions, if your builds are complex then the full-blown P4 is probably good for you. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Brian Welsch wrote: "blah blah blah, maybe a potato?" while translating my Afrikaans. Crikey! ain't life grand?
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You're talking about apps that require some serious horsepower here; it doesn't apply. If you want to have your money well spent when hosting these apps, I think the fully-leaded CPU and gobs of RAM are well worth the investment. "Your village called -
They're missing their idiot."I do use those apps and they work fine on my Celeron :) 200mb PSDs do choke it though. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Brian Welsch wrote: "blah blah blah, maybe a potato?" while translating my Afrikaans. Crikey! ain't life grand?
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For the money, I have to disagree. At work I just got a P4 Celeron 1.8gHz (or however they label it) for a couple hundred Rand (about $80 or so) and it does the job very well indeed. Now please note that here in South Africa, a Pentium 4 is going to cost about R4000 ($400), not $120. For VS.NET, for Fireworks, Office, Outlook on Windows XP I have noticed very little difference between this chip and my friends full-blown P4. Yes, his machine kicks arse when he plays Half Life 2 Deus Ex 2 or fires up 3D Studio Max, but I don't use those so the price premium is not worth it. I might have saved a few Rand and gained a few clock cyles by getting an AMD, but I don't know them all that well and I have never been let down by an Intel. **** This viewpoint applies to South Africa where electronics are not cheap. The price difference between a Celeron and a full-blown P4 is considerable. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Brian Welsch wrote: "blah blah blah, maybe a potato?" while translating my Afrikaans. Crikey! ain't life grand?
Paul Watson wrote: I might have saved a few Rand and gained a few clock cyles by getting an AMD, but I don't know them all that well and I have never been let down by an Intel The CPU I've got now is my second AMD, and except a problem of heat with the Athlon 700Mhz (1st generation) during this summer, I never have any problem with an AMD, nor any of my friends having such a CPU. I won't say the same with Cyrix, which is (was?) a huge heap of crap.
A quoi rêvent les personnes qui nous font vivre ce monde ?
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Paul Watson wrote: I might have saved a few Rand and gained a few clock cyles by getting an AMD, but I don't know them all that well and I have never been let down by an Intel The CPU I've got now is my second AMD, and except a problem of heat with the Athlon 700Mhz (1st generation) during this summer, I never have any problem with an AMD, nor any of my friends having such a CPU. I won't say the same with Cyrix, which is (was?) a huge heap of crap.
A quoi rêvent les personnes qui nous font vivre ce monde ?
Brand loyalty :) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Brian Welsch wrote: "blah blah blah, maybe a potato?" while translating my Afrikaans. Crikey! ain't life grand?
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Roger Wright wrote: Gamers and graphics designers may see a significant difference, but the average Joe who uses Word and Outlook Express will never know the difference How about the average Joe that runs SQL Server, IIS, VS.NET 2002 & 2003, Office and a host of other dev s/w. After Pauls post I'm beginning to think I've been throwing money down the drain. I'm not a gamer at all. Woke up this morning...and got myself a blog
Senkwe Chanda wrote: How about the average Joe that runs SQL Server, IIS, VS.NET 2002 & 2003, Office and a host of other dev s/w. After Pauls post I'm beginning to think I've been throwing money down the drain. I'm not a gamer at all. No, you'd only be throwing money down the drain if you bought a full on P4 and then gave it slow DDR memory instead of RDRAM :-) (My home machine has 512 Meg RDRAM, and kicks arse at just about everything, my work machine has DDR, and when it gets a heavy workload over SQL Server, IIS, VS.NET, it struggles a bit. But it also needs more memory anyway - 256Meg is not enough :-)) -- Ian Darling "The moral of the story is that with a contrived example, you can prove anything." - Joel Spolsky
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For the money, I have to disagree. At work I just got a P4 Celeron 1.8gHz (or however they label it) for a couple hundred Rand (about $80 or so) and it does the job very well indeed. Now please note that here in South Africa, a Pentium 4 is going to cost about R4000 ($400), not $120. For VS.NET, for Fireworks, Office, Outlook on Windows XP I have noticed very little difference between this chip and my friends full-blown P4. Yes, his machine kicks arse when he plays Half Life 2 Deus Ex 2 or fires up 3D Studio Max, but I don't use those so the price premium is not worth it. I might have saved a few Rand and gained a few clock cyles by getting an AMD, but I don't know them all that well and I have never been let down by an Intel. **** This viewpoint applies to South Africa where electronics are not cheap. The price difference between a Celeron and a full-blown P4 is considerable. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Brian Welsch wrote: "blah blah blah, maybe a potato?" while translating my Afrikaans. Crikey! ain't life grand?
First, get what is supported in your area, no matter what anyone says. AMD's are quite popular in the Fort Worth, Texas, USA area and it is all I have had for many years. Never a problem but I have had to replace several Intel's for friends. Now that is not the chip but the MB/Case design caused lint to build up over the CPU cooling heat sink. Those that try to create a positive pressure are just suicidal! There is a timing difference and if you are working with some versions of Linux the AMD will have problems. For a windows installation, should not be an issue. (Win 95, does not count.) "Don't be so anti-american, would you? KaЯl (to Paul Watson on Baseball Bats) 26 Nov '03 "
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I was amazed to see how badly they perform in the majority of benchmarks. http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1927[^] John
It depends on needs (same applies to the AMD Duron chip). Yes the cache is gone but also so is the heat from it. So for laptops you have a big benefit. "Don't be so anti-american, would you? KaЯl (to Paul Watson on Baseball Bats) 26 Nov '03 "
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Paul Watson wrote: I might have saved a few Rand and gained a few clock cyles by getting an AMD, but I don't know them all that well and I have never been let down by an Intel The CPU I've got now is my second AMD, and except a problem of heat with the Athlon 700Mhz (1st generation) during this summer, I never have any problem with an AMD, nor any of my friends having such a CPU. I won't say the same with Cyrix, which is (was?) a huge heap of crap.
A quoi rêvent les personnes qui nous font vivre ce monde ?
The problem with AMDs is the noise. I bought a 2Ghz Athlon for my current home PC and any reasonable fan for cooling it is a monster. They all sound like local whirlwinds. Change to a P4 and they run much cooler so the fans are a lot quieter. Depends on how much you value your ambient noise level but my next chip will be an intel. Just my 2p. -- Simon Steele Programmers Notepad - http://www.pnotepad.org/
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The problem with AMDs is the noise. I bought a 2Ghz Athlon for my current home PC and any reasonable fan for cooling it is a monster. They all sound like local whirlwinds. Change to a P4 and they run much cooler so the fans are a lot quieter. Depends on how much you value your ambient noise level but my next chip will be an intel. Just my 2p. -- Simon Steele Programmers Notepad - http://www.pnotepad.org/
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Can't a silent case compensate the fans noise?
A quoi rêvent les personnes qui nous font vivre ce monde ?
A bit. (By the way, a P4 runs little cooler than an Athlon). I initially bought the following bits when getting my 2.8GHz P4:
- AcoustiCase model C6606[^] - a midi-tower case supplied with about 2kg of acoustic wadding
- Q Technology 400W power supply[^]
However, with the stock Intel cooler on the processor, the processor was hitting 65C at 100% CPU usage, and going into overheat protect. So I added the following:
- Zalman 5700D ducted CPU cooler[^] (although the position on my motherboard means I can't use the ducting, because it gets in the way of the video card)
- 120mm (back) and 80mm (front) case fans[^]
It now runs quite a bit cooler and quieter than it did before. The noisiest bit of the system is now the fan on the graphics card...
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The problem with AMDs is the noise. I bought a 2Ghz Athlon for my current home PC and any reasonable fan for cooling it is a monster. They all sound like local whirlwinds. Change to a P4 and they run much cooler so the fans are a lot quieter. Depends on how much you value your ambient noise level but my next chip will be an intel. Just my 2p. -- Simon Steele Programmers Notepad - http://www.pnotepad.org/
Simon Steele wrote: The problem with AMDs is the noise. I bought a 2Ghz Athlon for my current home PC and any reasonable fan for cooling it is a monster. They all sound like local whirlwinds. Well my home AMD is quiter than the Intel at work. Yes there are many AMD fans that compensate by running fast and are noisy. You can also buy for a few bucks adapters that let you put standard case fans on (large diameter slower rotating.) that are quiter than the power supply. Which is most of my noise that I at home. "Don't be so anti-american, would you? KaЯl (to Paul Watson on Baseball Bats) 26 Nov '03 "
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For the money, I have to disagree. At work I just got a P4 Celeron 1.8gHz (or however they label it) for a couple hundred Rand (about $80 or so) and it does the job very well indeed. Now please note that here in South Africa, a Pentium 4 is going to cost about R4000 ($400), not $120. For VS.NET, for Fireworks, Office, Outlook on Windows XP I have noticed very little difference between this chip and my friends full-blown P4. Yes, his machine kicks arse when he plays Half Life 2 Deus Ex 2 or fires up 3D Studio Max, but I don't use those so the price premium is not worth it. I might have saved a few Rand and gained a few clock cyles by getting an AMD, but I don't know them all that well and I have never been let down by an Intel. **** This viewpoint applies to South Africa where electronics are not cheap. The price difference between a Celeron and a full-blown P4 is considerable. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Brian Welsch wrote: "blah blah blah, maybe a potato?" while translating my Afrikaans. Crikey! ain't life grand?
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> Yes, his machine kicks arse when he plays Half Life 2 I know I'm straying from the topic at hand, but the last I heard about it, HL2 won't even be out until April or so...
Right, sorry, I mean't Deus Ex 2. Was reading a HL2 preview at the time :) Pedant. :P regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Brian Welsch wrote: "blah blah blah, maybe a potato?" while translating my Afrikaans. Crikey! ain't life grand?
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A bit. (By the way, a P4 runs little cooler than an Athlon). I initially bought the following bits when getting my 2.8GHz P4:
- AcoustiCase model C6606[^] - a midi-tower case supplied with about 2kg of acoustic wadding
- Q Technology 400W power supply[^]
However, with the stock Intel cooler on the processor, the processor was hitting 65C at 100% CPU usage, and going into overheat protect. So I added the following:
- Zalman 5700D ducted CPU cooler[^] (although the position on my motherboard means I can't use the ducting, because it gets in the way of the video card)
- 120mm (back) and 80mm (front) case fans[^]
It now runs quite a bit cooler and quieter than it did before. The noisiest bit of the system is now the fan on the graphics card...
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God, the VB jokes are getting old. A: I haven't built a VB app. for 4 years and B: if your VB app takes long enough to build that you notice it, you are probably better off using C++ for that app. I do ASP.NET, longest build takes 10 seconds on my machine. I have a solution with 7 projects and something like 500 pages, too many referenced assemblies to count and loads of class files, takes 10 seconds to build. So for me, the Celeron is ample. For you it may not be. Point be, your money, your situation, you decide. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Brian Welsch wrote: "blah blah blah, maybe a potato?" while translating my Afrikaans. Crikey! ain't life grand?
Paul Watson wrote: God, the VB jokes are getting old. A: I haven't built a VB app. for 4 years :-D I'm so glad I stayed mostly quiet about the programming side of my life till after I learned C#.
When I can talk about 64 bit processors and attract girls with my computer not my car, I'll come out of the closet. Until that time...I'm like "What's the ENTER key?" -Hockey on being a geek
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It depends on needs (same applies to the AMD Duron chip). Yes the cache is gone but also so is the heat from it. So for laptops you have a big benefit. "Don't be so anti-american, would you? KaЯl (to Paul Watson on Baseball Bats) 26 Nov '03 "
Michael A. Barnhart wrote: Yes the cache is gone but also so is the heat from it. So for laptops you have a big benefit. I agree about the less heat from the cache but the sick thing is the reason for this is more that the processor stalls more often and as a result it does not produce as much heat because it is not doing the same amount of work as it could. John
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God, the VB jokes are getting old. A: I haven't built a VB app. for 4 years and B: if your VB app takes long enough to build that you notice it, you are probably better off using C++ for that app. I do ASP.NET, longest build takes 10 seconds on my machine. I have a solution with 7 projects and something like 500 pages, too many referenced assemblies to count and loads of class files, takes 10 seconds to build. So for me, the Celeron is ample. For you it may not be. Point be, your money, your situation, you decide. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Brian Welsch wrote: "blah blah blah, maybe a potato?" while translating my Afrikaans. Crikey! ain't life grand?
Paul Watson wrote: God, the VB jokes are getting old. I agree, but what are you going to do about it? Maybe there should be a VBer liberation group of some sort (The "Set Obj = Nothing Collection"?) Or a "VBer Pride" march through SomeMajorCity Like "London" Or SomeMajorCity Like "New York" :-D [EDIT] Thinking about it, a VB liberation group would actually be called:
Dim vb as New Collection Set vb = Nothingevil :laugh: [/EDIT] -- Ian Darling "The moral of the story is that with a contrived example, you can prove anything." - Joel Spolsky -
For the money, I have to disagree. At work I just got a P4 Celeron 1.8gHz (or however they label it) for a couple hundred Rand (about $80 or so) and it does the job very well indeed. Now please note that here in South Africa, a Pentium 4 is going to cost about R4000 ($400), not $120. For VS.NET, for Fireworks, Office, Outlook on Windows XP I have noticed very little difference between this chip and my friends full-blown P4. Yes, his machine kicks arse when he plays Half Life 2 Deus Ex 2 or fires up 3D Studio Max, but I don't use those so the price premium is not worth it. I might have saved a few Rand and gained a few clock cyles by getting an AMD, but I don't know them all that well and I have never been let down by an Intel. **** This viewpoint applies to South Africa where electronics are not cheap. The price difference between a Celeron and a full-blown P4 is considerable. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Brian Welsch wrote: "blah blah blah, maybe a potato?" while translating my Afrikaans. Crikey! ain't life grand?
Paul Watson wrote: when he plays Half Life 2 :~ Not out yet. For legal reasons, I hope you mean just Half-Life. "For all of our languages, we cannot communicate" - Christy Moore, Natives
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Paul Watson wrote: when he plays Half Life 2 :~ Not out yet. For legal reasons, I hope you mean just Half-Life. "For all of our languages, we cannot communicate" - Christy Moore, Natives
Yes, I made a mistake, I meant Deus Ex 2. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Brian Welsch wrote: "blah blah blah, maybe a potato?" while translating my Afrikaans. Crikey! ain't life grand?