Micro$oft
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I hate this f....d eternal MS-Linux discussions! Go make your money; whatever you use! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
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Man, who pissed in your Wheaties this morning? To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-biters. - Me, 10/03/2001
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I'm with you guys. My loyalty to MS extends no further than my next paycheck. And here I was thinking you were in it for love Stan. Damn but I am disappointed, the Elders have strayed from the path. What hope have I? :laugh: Michael Martin Pegasystems Pty Ltd Australia martm@pegasystems.com +61 413-004-018 "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace" - Victor Stone
I just hope MS stays on top long enough for me to retire - just so I don't have to completely revamp all my skills *again* just to get my kids through college. After that, I hope they up-chuck-and-die. "But, daddy, that was back in the hippie ages..." My twelve year old son - winning the argument. "Stan, you are an intelligent guy who responds in meaningful ways" Paul Watson 16/10/01
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You seem to be ignorant in the Open Source matter. 1. Linux developers are not poor. They make a good money and they can afford to make some software for fun and give it for free. Unix/Linux jobs can pay much better than a Windows jobs pretty often, specially if you count all those cheap VB and C# programmers into the pool to count awerage. 2. Free software is about the freedom, not the price. You are allowed to charge for the distribution, support, consultancy, transfer media, whatever. But you can't charge for the software(that is source code) itself - because software is free (but not always free of charge). If you make a changes - you have to show them and often mark those. No hidden API and other dirty tricks we've all seen from Microsoft. 3. It's actually the other way round - free software is forcing the Microsoft to give their software cheaper.
>> You are allowed to charge for the distribution, support, consultancy, transfer media, whatever. Sounds pretty much like "Software as a Service" to me... >> cheap VB and C# programmers How many "Looking for a C# programmer" ads have you seen lately? >> It's actually the other way round - free software is forcing the Microsoft to give their software cheaper. Hopefuly - but doesn't look like, now, does it? Peter
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That's the fact! It's allways the same: Winodws - Linux!!!!
You're delusional, dude. This article wasn't about Linux vs Windows. The original author was curious as to why Windows developers (with an assumed loyalty to Microsoft) would use the same subtle insult made popular by admitted anti-Windows advocates. Do you have a problem with actually *reading* the words, or do you have a problem *comprehending* what you read? The reason I asked is because I want to make sure I target the more correct description of your mental deficiency before I start making fun of it. To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-biters. - Me, 10/03/2001
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You're delusional, dude. This article wasn't about Linux vs Windows. The original author was curious as to why Windows developers (with an assumed loyalty to Microsoft) would use the same subtle insult made popular by admitted anti-Windows advocates. Do you have a problem with actually *reading* the words, or do you have a problem *comprehending* what you read? The reason I asked is because I want to make sure I target the more correct description of your mental deficiency before I start making fun of it. To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-biters. - Me, 10/03/2001
****WARNING*****OFF TOPIC POST****** John, you f***ing kill me! :laugh: I have to say that since discovering Code Project I have gotten into the habit of at least skimming the boards each morning, and John has rapidly become part of my morning wake me up. I apologize to everyone else for contributing to John's inflated sense of self, but sometimes I just need a good dose of scathing wit to finish waking up in the morning. ;P I frequently disagree with you John, but I still can not help but choke on my morning caffine quite often. I used to live with several professional grade a**es, and John makes me homesick. :-D We now return you to your regularly sechduled rant... :cool: :eek: :cool: :eek: :cool: :eek: :cool: :eek: :cool: :eek: (^^^Sorry, I just can't get enough of these guys) Jason Jystad Cito Technologies www.citotech.net >----------------------------------------------------------------------------< "Does anybody have a peanut?" -- Fezzik (Andre "The Giant" - The Princess Bride) >----------------------------------------------------------------------------<
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You're delusional, dude. This article wasn't about Linux vs Windows. The original author was curious as to why Windows developers (with an assumed loyalty to Microsoft) would use the same subtle insult made popular by admitted anti-Windows advocates. Do you have a problem with actually *reading* the words, or do you have a problem *comprehending* what you read? The reason I asked is because I want to make sure I target the more correct description of your mental deficiency before I start making fun of it. To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-biters. - Me, 10/03/2001
To make up for my off topic post here is my on-topic .02 I wrote my first programs on the Commodore Pet, I moved to the C64 and then to the Amiga. I thought the Lisa (Macintosh) was neat when it arrived on the scene, and when Mac users began complaining about Microsoft stealing their idea for a graphical user interface I sat in front of my Amiga GUI and scratched my head in confusion. Then someone offered me a job doing programs for that hideous clunker of a machine, the IBM PC. It paid well, and I took it. The Motorola processors were better, the Intel pay was better. No regrets. The computer industry always has its holy wars, and I guess I have just been an agnostic too long. I primarily do web development these days and I use ASP because that is what my customers want me to use. I like it, I think it is well done. I think PHP is easier to learn if you are starting from scratch (no previous vbscript knowledge) and I like the portability and performance of PHP. I use PHP when I am working in *nix platforms, I use ASP on the MS platforms most of the time. Sometimes I even :eek: combine them. I think MS makes great IDE's, but I really like the Delphi IDE too. Better than VB's in some ways. However, I get paid to do the MS thing more often than not. I work to get paid after all. It takes a particular kind of freak to be a programmer, (just look at John :-P ). Once you are that kind of nut and your brain works in the freaky ways necessary to be a programmer everything else is just a question of using a hammer or a screwdriver. Which tool is right for the job? So you'll see the Micro$oft references even here, because we all have an opinion about things in our industry even when its a negative opinion about something we get paid to work with. Have you bitched about your boss today? I guess that is why I hang around Code Project more that anywhere else, most of the people here realize that and are honest about it. Thanks for the site Chris! Jason Jystad Cito Technologies www.citotech.net >----------------------------------------------------------------------------< "Why are you all so not-perverted?" -- Dick Converse >----------------------------------------------------------------------------<
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****WARNING*****OFF TOPIC POST****** John, you f***ing kill me! :laugh: I have to say that since discovering Code Project I have gotten into the habit of at least skimming the boards each morning, and John has rapidly become part of my morning wake me up. I apologize to everyone else for contributing to John's inflated sense of self, but sometimes I just need a good dose of scathing wit to finish waking up in the morning. ;P I frequently disagree with you John, but I still can not help but choke on my morning caffine quite often. I used to live with several professional grade a**es, and John makes me homesick. :-D We now return you to your regularly sechduled rant... :cool: :eek: :cool: :eek: :cool: :eek: :cool: :eek: :cool: :eek: (^^^Sorry, I just can't get enough of these guys) Jason Jystad Cito Technologies www.citotech.net >----------------------------------------------------------------------------< "Does anybody have a peanut?" -- Fezzik (Andre "The Giant" - The Princess Bride) >----------------------------------------------------------------------------<
I knew I was helping *somebody*. I also noticed that I finally made it to the "Most Helpful" list, no doubt as a direct result of my apolitical rhetoric, disdain for all organized religions, love of animals (both sexes), the willingness to discharge a firearm regardless of the outcome, not to mention my entrepreneurial (had to check Webster's for that one because the MS Word spell checker didn't know I'd spelled it wrong - so much for spell checkers, eh George?) aspirations where the Latex Appendage Suit is concerned. > I apologize to everyone else for contributing to John's inflated sense of > self, but sometimes I just need a good dose of scathing wit to finish > waking up in the morning. No worries - I don't need someone else to inflate my sense of self. :) I like the "scathing wit" part the best. :) If nothing else, you have to admit that I'm just as willing to laugh at myself as I am at all the rest of you. :) To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-biters. - Me, 10/03/2001
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I knew I was helping *somebody*. I also noticed that I finally made it to the "Most Helpful" list, no doubt as a direct result of my apolitical rhetoric, disdain for all organized religions, love of animals (both sexes), the willingness to discharge a firearm regardless of the outcome, not to mention my entrepreneurial (had to check Webster's for that one because the MS Word spell checker didn't know I'd spelled it wrong - so much for spell checkers, eh George?) aspirations where the Latex Appendage Suit is concerned. > I apologize to everyone else for contributing to John's inflated sense of > self, but sometimes I just need a good dose of scathing wit to finish > waking up in the morning. No worries - I don't need someone else to inflate my sense of self. :) I like the "scathing wit" part the best. :) If nothing else, you have to admit that I'm just as willing to laugh at myself as I am at all the rest of you. :) To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-biters. - Me, 10/03/2001
> the willingness to discharge a firearm regardless of the outcome ^^^^ This is what does it for me John. > If nothing else, you have to admit that I'm just as willing to laugh at > myself as I am at all the rest of you. I *have* to admit nothing! I *choose* to admit that you do seem to occasionally take potshots at yourself as well. The same as I *choose* not to admit to that thing about the wallaby and Chris's yard.:omg: er, forget I said that. ;P Jason Jystad Cito Technologies www.citotech.net >------------------------------------------------< "Luckily," he went on, "you have come to exactly the right place with your interesting problem, for there is no such word as 'impossible' in my dictionary. In fact," he added, brandishing the abused book, "everything between 'herring' and 'marmalade' seems to be missing." -- Dirk Gently (Douglas Adams) >------------------------------------------------<
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I'm not saying that I mind paying for software, I'm saying it costs too damn much. With hardware, if you wait long enough, the price will drop (we can thank AMD for forcing Intel CPU's to start at more sane pricing levels than they used to). Not only that, but hardware has a longer shelf life than software. Lack of competition is the problem. To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-biters. - Me, 10/03/2001
Not only that, but hardware has a longer shelf life than software. Really? I think that may be the case for some people. But I think such people not only keep their hardware the same for a long time, they also keep the same software. The old, "If it ain't broke don't fix it". It seems like nowadays people upgrade or buy new machines more often than they do their software. If I'm right, then it would seem logical to charge more for the software. If it's going to make someone happy forever, then it's better to charge a higher price for it. Hardware, on the other hand, can break down and can be made to seem really antiquated when compared to new machines. In other words, if you now look at the specs for a Pentium IV 2Ghz box, it gives you the impression of being several times faster than your old P500 - hence, you get the itch to upgrade. I personally think that software should be written with the intent of giving the user something they'll never want to upgrade. Unfortunately we're not there yet, but that should be the goal. And, in such case, software should cost a lot - a one time fee for something that will make you happy forever. Regards, Alvaro
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I think you will find that most people are using this site because they use VC++ at work. Their companies are using VC++ as it is the best development tool for Windows. Everyone is using Windows as it has a huge if not monopolistic share of the market. They don't use Microsoft products because they love Microsoft it's because this way they have the biggest market to sell too. Generally the tallest poppy is the target of attacks. Microsofts history of strongarming companies and customers alike hasn't made them everybodies favourite. Personally I couldn't give a fuck if they all disappeared up Bill Gate's arsehole. I will start developing for whoever rises to the top. I can't understand why people see Microsoft in the same light as Ghandi/Martin Luther King etc. Their there for the money not the good of the world or us. That ought to earn me a shitload of This Helped votes. Michael Martin Pegasystems Pty Ltd Australia martm@pegasystems.com +61 413-004-018 "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace" - Victor Stone
Personally I couldn't give a f*** if they all disappeared up Bill Gate's arsehole. I will start developing for whoever rises to the top. I can't understand why people see Microsoft in the same light as Ghandi/Martin Luther King etc. Their there for the money not the good of the world or us. What I don't get is that people *expect* them to be there for our good. They are a publically listed company and obviously their goal is profit. In a similar line, some poxy current affairs program ran a story on the banks ripping people off with low interest home loans, and the ripoff was that the rate increases after six months. The fact the poster they showed said this in huge letters is immaterial, the banks apparently exist solely for our benefit. I was in my bank the other day and some clown came in to complain about fees and how high a profit the bank had made that year ( he'd seen it on TV ). The teller calmly suggested he could buy some shares if he wanted a cut of the profits. Personally I'd prefer to bank with someone who knows enough about how to handle money to turn a profit, but apparently some people disagree. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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You seem to be ignorant in the Open Source matter. 1. Linux developers are not poor. They make a good money and they can afford to make some software for fun and give it for free. Unix/Linux jobs can pay much better than a Windows jobs pretty often, specially if you count all those cheap VB and C# programmers into the pool to count awerage. 2. Free software is about the freedom, not the price. You are allowed to charge for the distribution, support, consultancy, transfer media, whatever. But you can't charge for the software(that is source code) itself - because software is free (but not always free of charge). If you make a changes - you have to show them and often mark those. No hidden API and other dirty tricks we've all seen from Microsoft. 3. It's actually the other way round - free software is forcing the Microsoft to give their software cheaper.
Let's play spot the uni student with no idea about life in the real world.... 1. I program Windows and I can also afford to make some software for fun and give it away for free. What is the difference, are you saying that Microsoft won't let me ? 2. Hiding source code you make money from is not a dirty trick, it's common sense. Microsoft give away heaps of their source ( all of MFC for a start ) so I think you're barking up the wrong tree here. Of course we could all give our source away and live on social security I suppose. 3. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Either way, it's irrelevant. Are you a communist ? Do you believe that Ford should give away free cars, or charge only the cost of raw materials ? I don't see why making a for-profit organisation makes Microsoft evil ? I'm all for money myself, if you don't want yours, you can paypal it to me, my email is cgraus@viewbuild.com Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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I’ve seen this a lot in anti Microsoft sites (like Slashdot) or generally not-so-friendly MS sites (like ZDNet), whenever anything related to Microsoft is mentioned, the letter 'S' being transformed magically into a yummy dollar sign ('$'), such as Micro$oft, M$, M$FT, Window$ … I can understand why an anti-Microsoftie like a Linux zealot would use this sign. Something like the following probably go in their minds about Microsoft when they use the sign.. “A monopoli$t company that $uck$ poor($) Window$ users' hard earned money ($) and makes its founder the richest($) person of the world and thus in turn making us, the Linux developers even poorer($), by forcing us to give away our fine software for free($)….” Now that’s understood, but I wonder why loyal Windows developers in a Microsoft friendly site like this need to decorate the ‘S’ letter (see the comments in this article for proof). Does this mean that we’re not as loyal as Microsoft expects us to be, or has it become a fashion to use this decoration to attract others’ attention? Hmm.. How about a genuine reason that can go something like this.. “Micro$oft is fine company that believe$ in innovation and free market economy ($).. a company that helps us keep surviving ($) and even help some of us make big bucks ($) by providing licen$e to develop on a fine operating system we all know as Window$” Hmm, any other thought? // Fazlul
Get RadVC today! Play RAD in VC++ http://www.capitolsoft.com
I personally have no problems with Microsoft making a profit, they are no different to me in that regard, except in the scale of their success. I tend to use the M$ only when I am grumpy about something to do with them, like their scabby SDK installer or product activation or the death of all my favourite magazines to become .Net whores. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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Why doe$ it bother you thi$ much? What'$ gotten you $o riled up? Calm down John. I was merely exploring the myth behind the '$' sign many people use. // Fazlul
Get RadVC today! Play RAD in VC++ http://www.capitolsoft.com
It's a myth that Microsoft have/make money ? Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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Man, who pissed in your Wheaties this morning? To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-biters. - Me, 10/03/2001
ROTFL - this is great. I voted 'this helped', and I predict that having that ability in the lounge will soon push you to the top. Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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Let's play spot the uni student with no idea about life in the real world.... 1. I program Windows and I can also afford to make some software for fun and give it away for free. What is the difference, are you saying that Microsoft won't let me ? 2. Hiding source code you make money from is not a dirty trick, it's common sense. Microsoft give away heaps of their source ( all of MFC for a start ) so I think you're barking up the wrong tree here. Of course we could all give our source away and live on social security I suppose. 3. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Either way, it's irrelevant. Are you a communist ? Do you believe that Ford should give away free cars, or charge only the cost of raw materials ? I don't see why making a for-profit organisation makes Microsoft evil ? I'm all for money myself, if you don't want yours, you can paypal it to me, my email is cgraus@viewbuild.com Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
Please don't put the words into my mouth. I stated clearly my points, and your reply is a good one, but it doesn't fit my post. I stated that a Linux developers are not poor - because it was imposed so by original poster. Then I said that the free software is not about the money but about the freedom, which is the case actually. I don't say to give the software with no charge. The rule is that if you take a source and you use it - you have to show the source you used or modified. If you want to hide the source - fine, just don't use any of the Open Source for doing that. This way software stays free, because if you alter it you have to show how and why. I don't care about Microsoft making their usualy buggy crap as long as they stay away from my GPL code for example. Got it? 1. I program Windows and I can also afford to make some software for fun and give it away for free. What is the difference, are you saying that Microsoft won't let me ? Well, there was quite a discussion a while ago about a particular Microsoft license that didn't allow to even use the Open Source tools for developing your commercial code, let alone to develop one. So if you opened your code using vi you have already commited a crime. How stupid is that? (http://msdn.microsoft.com/Downloads/eula\_mit.htm) Hiding source code you make money from is not a dirty trick, it's common sense. I said that if your source is open then you can't make dirty tricks. If you hide the code then you can do dirty tricks and Microsoft did dirty tricks. It doesn't mean that every closed source does dirty tricks. But that's of course a common sense, I don't know why you have troubles to undestand something so obvious. Are you a communist? Are you an idiot or you simply act like one? I didn't say to give anything for free, I was talking about having a choice and making money with free code. People who make free code also make the money, get with it. And I didn't say that Microsoft is eveil either, so go on barking some other tree.
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Please don't put the words into my mouth. I stated clearly my points, and your reply is a good one, but it doesn't fit my post. I stated that a Linux developers are not poor - because it was imposed so by original poster. Then I said that the free software is not about the money but about the freedom, which is the case actually. I don't say to give the software with no charge. The rule is that if you take a source and you use it - you have to show the source you used or modified. If you want to hide the source - fine, just don't use any of the Open Source for doing that. This way software stays free, because if you alter it you have to show how and why. I don't care about Microsoft making their usualy buggy crap as long as they stay away from my GPL code for example. Got it? 1. I program Windows and I can also afford to make some software for fun and give it away for free. What is the difference, are you saying that Microsoft won't let me ? Well, there was quite a discussion a while ago about a particular Microsoft license that didn't allow to even use the Open Source tools for developing your commercial code, let alone to develop one. So if you opened your code using vi you have already commited a crime. How stupid is that? (http://msdn.microsoft.com/Downloads/eula\_mit.htm) Hiding source code you make money from is not a dirty trick, it's common sense. I said that if your source is open then you can't make dirty tricks. If you hide the code then you can do dirty tricks and Microsoft did dirty tricks. It doesn't mean that every closed source does dirty tricks. But that's of course a common sense, I don't know why you have troubles to undestand something so obvious. Are you a communist? Are you an idiot or you simply act like one? I didn't say to give anything for free, I was talking about having a choice and making money with free code. People who make free code also make the money, get with it. And I didn't say that Microsoft is eveil either, so go on barking some other tree.
So dirty tricks != evil ? Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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So dirty tricks != evil ? Christian As I learn the innermost secrets of the around me, they reward me in many ways to keep quiet. Men with pierced ears are better prepared for marriage. They've experienced pain and bought Jewellery.
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Now George, take your medication before you reply again, so you'll be at least semi-coherent. You said Microsoft did dirty tricks because they hide their source. I said you were saying they were evil, and you said that no, you never said that. Now which is it ? Christian After all, there's nothing wrong with an elite as long as I'm allowed to be part of it!! - Mike Burston Oct 23, 2001
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You're delusional, dude. This article wasn't about Linux vs Windows. The original author was curious as to why Windows developers (with an assumed loyalty to Microsoft) would use the same subtle insult made popular by admitted anti-Windows advocates. Do you have a problem with actually *reading* the words, or do you have a problem *comprehending* what you read? The reason I asked is because I want to make sure I target the more correct description of your mental deficiency before I start making fun of it. To hell with those thin-skinned pillow-biters. - Me, 10/03/2001
Oh John Simmons.... Just start making fun of it...
