Am I the only one upset about this US fingerprinting business???
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Get over it. It's a new world after 9/11.
"We have done so much in the last 2 years, and it doesn't happen by standing around with your finger in your ear, hoping everyone thinks that that's nice." - Donald Rumsfeld
Jason Henderson
blogJason Henderson wrote: Get over it. It's a new world after 9/11. Well then, I guess I have my answer. I am the only one worried. Citing 9/11 as a reason to take away basic civil liberties is IMO a huge problem. I understand the need to balance privacy and national security, but where is the limit? Next, they will say: We have a lot of crime. Most of crime is commited by minorities. Let's round them all up and see if any of them are in our database. I'm certain they'll catch a lot of crooks that way. --- Grab WndTabs from http://www.wndtabs.com to make your VC6 experience that much more comfortable...
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Hey, I haven't seen you around the lounge for a while? Where ya been? Jeremy Falcon
I've seen him in the asp.net forum a lot:)
// Steve McLenithan
Cluelessnes:
There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots. -
I'm sure you've all heard about the new "US Visit" thingy (dhs.gov[^]) where they fingerprint every foreign national that comes into the US. Maybe its government propaganda but every article I read is all full of people saying "yeah; extra security is important blah blah blah" and not a single person shouting out in cry for personal privacy. Even my wife can't understand why I'm upset. The usual US lobby groups probably won't nudge a finger since US citizens aren't being fingerprinted. I find this personally revolting. There's no reason in the world I should be treated like a criminal (or even potential criminal) just because I want to enter the states! Personally I'm cancelling a trip there and won't be going down south until I get my Canadian passport (as Canadians a exempt from all this BS). Unfortunately, how many people can say they have a Canadian passport waiting for them around the curve? -Oz --- Grab WndTabs from http://www.wndtabs.com to make your VC6 experience that much more comfortable...
so is Brazil ... for USA citizen ... :laugh: httpBrazil begins fingerprinting US travellers[^]
Maximilien Lincourt "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with backup tapes." ("Computer Networks" by Andrew S Tannenbaum )
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I'm sure you've all heard about the new "US Visit" thingy (dhs.gov[^]) where they fingerprint every foreign national that comes into the US. Maybe its government propaganda but every article I read is all full of people saying "yeah; extra security is important blah blah blah" and not a single person shouting out in cry for personal privacy. Even my wife can't understand why I'm upset. The usual US lobby groups probably won't nudge a finger since US citizens aren't being fingerprinted. I find this personally revolting. There's no reason in the world I should be treated like a criminal (or even potential criminal) just because I want to enter the states! Personally I'm cancelling a trip there and won't be going down south until I get my Canadian passport (as Canadians a exempt from all this BS). Unfortunately, how many people can say they have a Canadian passport waiting for them around the curve? -Oz --- Grab WndTabs from http://www.wndtabs.com to make your VC6 experience that much more comfortable...
[Sarcasm] I hear the US requires that you have a Passport, too! Passports have your name, country of origin, date of birth, and all kinds of other private information that US officials look at. :mad: [/Sarcasm] ------------------------------------------ Law of Nazi Analogies: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. In any debate, Hitler's opinion on the subject is automatically the evil one, so it had better be contrary to the side you're arguing.
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so is Brazil ... for USA citizen ... :laugh: httpBrazil begins fingerprinting US travellers[^]
Maximilien Lincourt "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with backup tapes." ("Computer Networks" by Andrew S Tannenbaum )
Quoted from the article: Brazil has begun fingerprinting and photographing US visitors on the orders of a judge who compared planned US security controls on travellers from Brazil and other nations to Nazi horrors. ... "I consider the act absolutely brutal, threatening human rights, violating human dignity, xenophobic and worthy of the worst horrors committed by the Nazis," Sebastiao da Silva said in the court order released on Tuesday. WTF!? ------------------------------------------ Law of Nazi Analogies: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. In any debate, Hitler's opinion on the subject is automatically the evil one, so it had better be contrary to the side you're arguing.
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Hey, I haven't seen you around the lounge for a while? Where ya been? Jeremy Falcon
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[Sarcasm] I hear the US requires that you have a Passport, too! Passports have your name, country of origin, date of birth, and all kinds of other private information that US officials look at. :mad: [/Sarcasm] ------------------------------------------ Law of Nazi Analogies: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. In any debate, Hitler's opinion on the subject is automatically the evil one, so it had better be contrary to the side you're arguing.
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so is Brazil ... for USA citizen ... :laugh: httpBrazil begins fingerprinting US travellers[^]
Maximilien Lincourt "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with backup tapes." ("Computer Networks" by Andrew S Tannenbaum )
#1 - I don't have an issue with the US fingerprinting incoming visitors. #2 - I don't have an issue with Brazil (or any other country) fingerprinting visiting Americans. ...but this quote from the article is beyond description. "I consider the act absolutely brutal, threatening human rights, violating human dignity, xenophobic and worthy of the worst horrors committed by the Nazis," Sebastiao da Silva said in the court order released on Tuesday. Let's see... Nazis raped, tortured and killed millions of people due to their race and/or religion, while the US will roll willing visitor's fingers in ink in order to find criminals and terrorists. Yep, sounds about the same. :rolleyes: Please allow me to introduce myself - I’m a man of wealth and taste. I’ve been around for a long, long year - Stole many a man’s soul and faith
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I'm sure you've all heard about the new "US Visit" thingy (dhs.gov[^]) where they fingerprint every foreign national that comes into the US. Maybe its government propaganda but every article I read is all full of people saying "yeah; extra security is important blah blah blah" and not a single person shouting out in cry for personal privacy. Even my wife can't understand why I'm upset. The usual US lobby groups probably won't nudge a finger since US citizens aren't being fingerprinted. I find this personally revolting. There's no reason in the world I should be treated like a criminal (or even potential criminal) just because I want to enter the states! Personally I'm cancelling a trip there and won't be going down south until I get my Canadian passport (as Canadians a exempt from all this BS). Unfortunately, how many people can say they have a Canadian passport waiting for them around the curve? -Oz --- Grab WndTabs from http://www.wndtabs.com to make your VC6 experience that much more comfortable...
Definitely you are not the person who feeling this to be revolting? Worse it is not applicable to all Non-US citizens. Deepak Khajuria
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Jason Henderson wrote: Get over it. It's a new world after 9/11. Well then, I guess I have my answer. I am the only one worried. Citing 9/11 as a reason to take away basic civil liberties is IMO a huge problem. I understand the need to balance privacy and national security, but where is the limit? Next, they will say: We have a lot of crime. Most of crime is commited by minorities. Let's round them all up and see if any of them are in our database. I'm certain they'll catch a lot of crooks that way. --- Grab WndTabs from http://www.wndtabs.com to make your VC6 experience that much more comfortable...
Oz Solomonovich wrote: Citing 9/11 as a reason to take away basic civil liberties is IMO a huge problem. So, just why do you believe one of your basic civil liberties is to enter the USA without permitting a verifiable identification? It would be a valid complaint if you had to scale a wall and risk being shot for leaving but you have absolutely no say in what our country might demand for entry. As far as I am concerned your civil rights exist within the boundaries of your country on the basis granted by your civil laws. Oz Solomonovich wrote: I understand the need to balance privacy and national security, but where is the limit? Good question, I don't think we've hit that limit just yet. Mike "liberals are being driven crazy by the fact that Bush is so popular with Americans, and thus by the realization that anyone to the left of center is utterly marginal." JAMES TRAUB NY Times Loyal member of the vast right wing conspiracy **"could a country (USA) letting one sixth of its population under the level of powerty be considered as civilized?"**KaЯl (France let 15,000 elderly die from summer heat)
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I'm sure you've all heard about the new "US Visit" thingy (dhs.gov[^]) where they fingerprint every foreign national that comes into the US. Maybe its government propaganda but every article I read is all full of people saying "yeah; extra security is important blah blah blah" and not a single person shouting out in cry for personal privacy. Even my wife can't understand why I'm upset. The usual US lobby groups probably won't nudge a finger since US citizens aren't being fingerprinted. I find this personally revolting. There's no reason in the world I should be treated like a criminal (or even potential criminal) just because I want to enter the states! Personally I'm cancelling a trip there and won't be going down south until I get my Canadian passport (as Canadians a exempt from all this BS). Unfortunately, how many people can say they have a Canadian passport waiting for them around the curve? -Oz --- Grab WndTabs from http://www.wndtabs.com to make your VC6 experience that much more comfortable...
As a Britsh citizen and US green card holder, I have had my fingerprints taken more times than I can remember. It doesn't bother me at all, since I have nothing to hide. It's just part of the process. They were doing it before 9/11 too. Personally, I think that all new-born babies should be fingerprinted too. Speaking as a citizen from a country that doesn't really have a constitution, I think that the Constitution causes more problems than it solves. Expecially as it hasn't really been updated for 250+ years.
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I'm sure you've all heard about the new "US Visit" thingy (dhs.gov[^]) where they fingerprint every foreign national that comes into the US. Maybe its government propaganda but every article I read is all full of people saying "yeah; extra security is important blah blah blah" and not a single person shouting out in cry for personal privacy. Even my wife can't understand why I'm upset. The usual US lobby groups probably won't nudge a finger since US citizens aren't being fingerprinted. I find this personally revolting. There's no reason in the world I should be treated like a criminal (or even potential criminal) just because I want to enter the states! Personally I'm cancelling a trip there and won't be going down south until I get my Canadian passport (as Canadians a exempt from all this BS). Unfortunately, how many people can say they have a Canadian passport waiting for them around the curve? -Oz --- Grab WndTabs from http://www.wndtabs.com to make your VC6 experience that much more comfortable...
To be honest, I couldn't care less - I have nothing to hide, so let them take my prints. The only annoyance is that it'll make the whole air-travel experience even more frustrating, but I'm not going to complain about additional airport security after 9/11 - if terrorists had crashed planes into targets in London and the UK gov. then decided to fingerprint/photo every single visitor, I'd be applauding them!
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As a Britsh citizen and US green card holder, I have had my fingerprints taken more times than I can remember. It doesn't bother me at all, since I have nothing to hide. It's just part of the process. They were doing it before 9/11 too. Personally, I think that all new-born babies should be fingerprinted too. Speaking as a citizen from a country that doesn't really have a constitution, I think that the Constitution causes more problems than it solves. Expecially as it hasn't really been updated for 250+ years.
Miszou wrote: Expecially as it hasn't really been updated for 250+ years. It has been Amended numerous times, actually. I think the last amendment was 10 or so years ago. BW CP Member Homepages
"...take what you need and leave the rest..."
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As a Britsh citizen and US green card holder, I have had my fingerprints taken more times than I can remember. It doesn't bother me at all, since I have nothing to hide. It's just part of the process. They were doing it before 9/11 too. Personally, I think that all new-born babies should be fingerprinted too. Speaking as a citizen from a country that doesn't really have a constitution, I think that the Constitution causes more problems than it solves. Expecially as it hasn't really been updated for 250+ years.
As a small correction, the US Constitution is 217 years old and has been updated several times, both by ammendment and by interpretting provisions in light of changes in our attitudes. The First Ammendment, for example, is interpretted far more broadly than when it was first written. Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Yah,As Steve said I was hanging around in C# and ASP.NET forums,Today I get free a liitle more and come back to lounge. :) Mazy No sig. available now.
You could always do like I do and "convince" your boss that you're working. :) Jeremy Falcon
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Jason Henderson wrote: Get over it. It's a new world after 9/11. Well then, I guess I have my answer. I am the only one worried. Citing 9/11 as a reason to take away basic civil liberties is IMO a huge problem. I understand the need to balance privacy and national security, but where is the limit? Next, they will say: We have a lot of crime. Most of crime is commited by minorities. Let's round them all up and see if any of them are in our database. I'm certain they'll catch a lot of crooks that way. --- Grab WndTabs from http://www.wndtabs.com to make your VC6 experience that much more comfortable...
Oz Solomonovich wrote: Well then, I guess I have my answer. Yes, you do. I have no problems with this. How are we supposed to keep our borders safe if we don’t practice a bit of due diligence? People were screaming when they heard how the 911 hijackers were 'let in' to the country and no one did anything. This is doing something. Should you have the right to enter our borders if you are a criminal? NOPE. Then how are we supposed to find out? ASK? Oz Solomonovich wrote: Let's round them all up and see if any of them are in our database. I'm certain they'll catch a lot of crooks that way. I would be all for this also as long as they were only looking for people with outstanding warrants. Hell, screen everyone, finger print everyone. If you are a criminal then you have no right to hide from the law.
Paul Watson wrote: "At the end of the day it is what you produce that counts, not how many doctorates you have on the wall." George Carlin wrote: "Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things." Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: If the physicists find a universal theory describing the laws of universe, I'm sure the asshole constant will be an integral part of that theory.
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I'm sure you've all heard about the new "US Visit" thingy (dhs.gov[^]) where they fingerprint every foreign national that comes into the US. Maybe its government propaganda but every article I read is all full of people saying "yeah; extra security is important blah blah blah" and not a single person shouting out in cry for personal privacy. Even my wife can't understand why I'm upset. The usual US lobby groups probably won't nudge a finger since US citizens aren't being fingerprinted. I find this personally revolting. There's no reason in the world I should be treated like a criminal (or even potential criminal) just because I want to enter the states! Personally I'm cancelling a trip there and won't be going down south until I get my Canadian passport (as Canadians a exempt from all this BS). Unfortunately, how many people can say they have a Canadian passport waiting for them around the curve? -Oz --- Grab WndTabs from http://www.wndtabs.com to make your VC6 experience that much more comfortable...
The fact that I am a US citizen taints my opinion, but here goes. I have no problem with the fingerprinting and I would gladly be fingerprinted to enter or exit any other country. Travelling abroad is a privilidge and countries must be able to protect themselves and control access to their borders as they see fit. At one time I felt the same way you do about banks requiring a fingerprint to cash checks. (You may or may not have this in your country, so I'll explain a little farther just-in-case.) Where I live, some banks require that I place a thumbprint on a check if I wish to cash it, AND I am not an account holder at that bank. This used to just piss me off to no end, but after much throught about it, I have no real problem with it. At least they are being obvious in their security measures. Fingerprint, matching ID, security cameras that are visible, etc. I have a choice to deposit it into my account and get it in a few days, but if I want it immiedately, I have to do what they ask. Really is no big deal. Being a technology person, I see this type of identification as only the beginning. RFID is one technology that offers governments and businesses unprecedented tracking of almost anything. It is mostly invisible (as in not obvious) and allows for a level of tracking that is unheard of. Think about tracking how many $20 bills I have in my pocket. That's a little scary to me. Infared images of faces, ie. facial recognition, is passive and can be done without your knowledge. How does that make you feel? The unfortunante reality is that we do not live in a perfect world and there are people out there who seek to do us/you harm. A major part of every governments job and mission is to protect its citizens. I do not see how asking someone to provide identification (you already must have a passport), particularly a non-citizen, is treating them like a criminal. One can talk about government conspiricies, but at least in the US, such things can't last long since we relect our government (barring supreme court, etc) every 2-6 years. The concept that the government is out-to-get-us, in my opinion is mostly hysteria and has little basis in reality. I trust my government in-so-much that if I do not commit a crime, I have no reason to fear. I, for the most part, trust many other governments on the same basis. That does not make them fair, or reasonable, or even polite, but it is the basis for governments. Just my 2 cents.
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I'm sure you've all heard about the new "US Visit" thingy (dhs.gov[^]) where they fingerprint every foreign national that comes into the US. Maybe its government propaganda but every article I read is all full of people saying "yeah; extra security is important blah blah blah" and not a single person shouting out in cry for personal privacy. Even my wife can't understand why I'm upset. The usual US lobby groups probably won't nudge a finger since US citizens aren't being fingerprinted. I find this personally revolting. There's no reason in the world I should be treated like a criminal (or even potential criminal) just because I want to enter the states! Personally I'm cancelling a trip there and won't be going down south until I get my Canadian passport (as Canadians a exempt from all this BS). Unfortunately, how many people can say they have a Canadian passport waiting for them around the curve? -Oz --- Grab WndTabs from http://www.wndtabs.com to make your VC6 experience that much more comfortable...
You do know that as a Canadian citizen and, I presume, a holder of a Canadian passport, you are exempt from being fingerprinted. Visitors from most of Western Europe and Japan are also exempt. I do find it ironic that a holder of a Canadian ID card is complaining about entering the US rather than complaining about the hassles of reentering Canada! (I still remember Canadian roomates from college complaining bitterly about this, especially if one accidentally left his or her card at home during vacation. It was actually easier for US citizens to get into Canada than the Canadians! Of course, this may have changed.) Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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I'm sure you've all heard about the new "US Visit" thingy (dhs.gov[^]) where they fingerprint every foreign national that comes into the US. Maybe its government propaganda but every article I read is all full of people saying "yeah; extra security is important blah blah blah" and not a single person shouting out in cry for personal privacy. Even my wife can't understand why I'm upset. The usual US lobby groups probably won't nudge a finger since US citizens aren't being fingerprinted. I find this personally revolting. There's no reason in the world I should be treated like a criminal (or even potential criminal) just because I want to enter the states! Personally I'm cancelling a trip there and won't be going down south until I get my Canadian passport (as Canadians a exempt from all this BS). Unfortunately, how many people can say they have a Canadian passport waiting for them around the curve? -Oz --- Grab WndTabs from http://www.wndtabs.com to make your VC6 experience that much more comfortable...
No you're definitely not the only one. I just don't think that it is right, nor that it will increase the security a lot. I think that it is demeaning (is this the right word) to be considered a potential criminal. :| The "Welcome to the U.S." picture right below the fingerprinting picture in the pdf brochure on dhs.gov looks a little ironic. :( Rado
Radoslav Bielik http://www.neomyz.com/poll [^] - Get your own web poll
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You could always do like I do and "convince" your boss that you're working. :) Jeremy Falcon