Gates plans to solve SPAM in 2 years!
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Yep, that is what it says. Don't know if he has noticed there are products that are already out that handle the "Challenge & Response" method he plans to use ;) Ah, that will be his next patent issue! http://news.independent.co.uk/digital/news/story.jsp?story=484520[^] I like his second idea, to enforce payment for spam... Wonder how he figures he will track it in the first place to charge someone ;) Rocky <>< www.HintsAndTips.com
His product (aka "The Penny Black Project") will not be based on traditional "Challenge and Response", at least, not entirely. "Challenge and Response" have some drawbacks that make it impossible to use on some environments (e.g. a salesman can't afford to ignore e-mails from people he doesn't know yet). The "payment" being mentioned is not money: it's computing power. The idea is: if you want to send me an e-mail, I'll send you a computing problem and you'll need to spend 10 seconds of CPU to solve it and give it back to me. This way, the maximum number of e-mails someone could send on a day with a single computer to unknown people is 8640. Obviously, you can white-list someone to relieve him from these computations (ok, here Challenge & Response enters). And how will they stop someone from using a super fast computer? Memory. The algorithm will be memory bound, not CPU bound. On the last 20 years, CPU speeds went up around 1,000 times, while memory speeds went up around 4 times. The Penny Black Project Trying to make bits uncopyable is like trying to make water not wet. -- Bruce Schneier By the way, dog_spawn isn't a nickname - it is my name with an underscore instead of a space. -- dog_spawn
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His product (aka "The Penny Black Project") will not be based on traditional "Challenge and Response", at least, not entirely. "Challenge and Response" have some drawbacks that make it impossible to use on some environments (e.g. a salesman can't afford to ignore e-mails from people he doesn't know yet). The "payment" being mentioned is not money: it's computing power. The idea is: if you want to send me an e-mail, I'll send you a computing problem and you'll need to spend 10 seconds of CPU to solve it and give it back to me. This way, the maximum number of e-mails someone could send on a day with a single computer to unknown people is 8640. Obviously, you can white-list someone to relieve him from these computations (ok, here Challenge & Response enters). And how will they stop someone from using a super fast computer? Memory. The algorithm will be memory bound, not CPU bound. On the last 20 years, CPU speeds went up around 1,000 times, while memory speeds went up around 4 times. The Penny Black Project Trying to make bits uncopyable is like trying to make water not wet. -- Bruce Schneier By the way, dog_spawn isn't a nickname - it is my name with an underscore instead of a space. -- dog_spawn
Daniel Turini wrote: "Challenge and Response" have some drawbacks that make it impossible to use on some environments (e.g. a salesman can't afford to ignore e-mails from people he doesn't know yet). That is a not a case for "challenge and response". It simply requires the sender which you have not previously received mail from, verify they are a human. That is all, does not ignore them nor block them from sending mail, just makes sure they verify they are human. A simple "challenge and response" system works well for people and does not cripple email services on slow computers nor large mailing lists. The "penny black" idea would hinder slow computers and mailing lists from using email. None of that is needed. The solution is already here, but they do not want to hear that! If business people do not want to use the technology because they do not want challenge messages sent to their contacts, then they do not have to. It would be a lot like the national do not call list, if you are not on it, you have to deal with the telemarketing calls, thus if you do not want to use the "challenge/response" technology, you just have to deal with spam. That is your choice. But the fact is, they answer to spam is already here, and it is the "challenge/response" technology. You do not want spam, use this technology and you will not have it. Simple as that.. As for the "penny black" idea, it is worthless. It would not stop spam just maybe cut down the volume for a short time. The spammers will just start up larger spam farms and the spam will still get in your inbox. Complete joke! Daniel Turini wrote: The "payment" being mentioned is not money: Did you read the article I posted? They were talking about "Monetary value". It did not appear to be referring to the "Penny Black" in the last half of the article. They are talking about MS idea to allow people to charge spammers for mail they do not want. Which is yet another joke.. How do they trace the email.. How do they know where it came from.. How do they bill people in Asia which is responsible for a large amount of spam on the net... MS just needs to buy the patent to "Challenge/Response" and put it out for free. If people then used it, spam would be gone, at least for those that used they system. Rocky <>< www.HintsAndTips.com
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Yep, that is what it says. Don't know if he has noticed there are products that are already out that handle the "Challenge & Response" method he plans to use ;) Ah, that will be his next patent issue! http://news.independent.co.uk/digital/news/story.jsp?story=484520[^] I like his second idea, to enforce payment for spam... Wonder how he figures he will track it in the first place to charge someone ;) Rocky <>< www.HintsAndTips.com
What's needed is a war against spammers. One could argue that spammers are electronic benign versions of "regular" terrorists. They spread mayhem with their spam, costing billions of dollar for the industry - world wide. The spamming parties should be tracked down and dealt with. -- C'est normal!
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Yep, that is what it says. Don't know if he has noticed there are products that are already out that handle the "Challenge & Response" method he plans to use ;) Ah, that will be his next patent issue! http://news.independent.co.uk/digital/news/story.jsp?story=484520[^] I like his second idea, to enforce payment for spam... Wonder how he figures he will track it in the first place to charge someone ;) Rocky <>< www.HintsAndTips.com
At least he is going to do something about it ! Elaine (swamped fluffy tigress) The tigress is here :-D
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At least he is going to do something about it ! Elaine (swamped fluffy tigress) The tigress is here :-D
Yeah, make big bucks on it in the end. ;) -- C'est normal!
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At least he is going to do something about it ! Elaine (swamped fluffy tigress) The tigress is here :-D
Maybe Bush might start to invade countries that allow spamming. Better reason than non-existsnt Weapons of Mass Destruction. :laugh: Cheers Mike Epprecht, MVP (SQL Server) Johannesburg, South Africa
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Maybe Bush might start to invade countries that allow spamming. Better reason than non-existsnt Weapons of Mass Destruction. :laugh: Cheers Mike Epprecht, MVP (SQL Server) Johannesburg, South Africa
Mike Epprecht wrote: Maybe Bush might start to invade countries that allow spamming. Actually, it would probably be more that he would allow countries to spam and even give them the email lists for those that will go along with the new war plans.. Remember, everything to a politition is bargining material ;) Rocky <>< www.HintsAndTips.com
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At least he is going to do something about it ! Elaine (swamped fluffy tigress) The tigress is here :-D
Well, that being considered doing something about it can be debatable, but the point is, he does not have to, the technology is already here if people would quit whining about spam and simply use the technology we already have. No more spam, no more issues. Simple! Rocky <>< www.HintsAndTips.com
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Daniel Turini wrote: "Challenge and Response" have some drawbacks that make it impossible to use on some environments (e.g. a salesman can't afford to ignore e-mails from people he doesn't know yet). That is a not a case for "challenge and response". It simply requires the sender which you have not previously received mail from, verify they are a human. That is all, does not ignore them nor block them from sending mail, just makes sure they verify they are human. A simple "challenge and response" system works well for people and does not cripple email services on slow computers nor large mailing lists. The "penny black" idea would hinder slow computers and mailing lists from using email. None of that is needed. The solution is already here, but they do not want to hear that! If business people do not want to use the technology because they do not want challenge messages sent to their contacts, then they do not have to. It would be a lot like the national do not call list, if you are not on it, you have to deal with the telemarketing calls, thus if you do not want to use the "challenge/response" technology, you just have to deal with spam. That is your choice. But the fact is, they answer to spam is already here, and it is the "challenge/response" technology. You do not want spam, use this technology and you will not have it. Simple as that.. As for the "penny black" idea, it is worthless. It would not stop spam just maybe cut down the volume for a short time. The spammers will just start up larger spam farms and the spam will still get in your inbox. Complete joke! Daniel Turini wrote: The "payment" being mentioned is not money: Did you read the article I posted? They were talking about "Monetary value". It did not appear to be referring to the "Penny Black" in the last half of the article. They are talking about MS idea to allow people to charge spammers for mail they do not want. Which is yet another joke.. How do they trace the email.. How do they know where it came from.. How do they bill people in Asia which is responsible for a large amount of spam on the net... MS just needs to buy the patent to "Challenge/Response" and put it out for free. If people then used it, spam would be gone, at least for those that used they system. Rocky <>< www.HintsAndTips.com
Rocky Moore wrote: But the fact is, they answer to spam is already here, and it is the "challenge/response" technology. You do not want spam, use this technology and you will not have it. Simple as that.. Challenge and Response stops a lot of valid e-mail that is not spam. Actually, stop using e-mail and you won't receive spam. Simple as that. Rocky Moore wrote: That is your choice. There are other options for spam control. Rocky Moore wrote: As for the "penny black" idea, it is worthless. It would not stop spam just maybe cut down the volume for a short time. The spammers will just start up larger spam farms and the spam will still get in your inbox. Complete joke! Today, a spammer sends from 1,000,000 to 10,000,000 spam a day, probably with a single machine. Penny black would reduce this to around 8,000 a day per machine. If a spammer wanted to send 8,000,000 spam a day, he would need to build a farm with 1,000 machines. How many people have this much money? Only the electric bill would cost a fortune. Rocky Moore wrote: The "penny black" idea would hinder slow computers and mailing lists from using email. No: the whole point is that the algorithm should be memory-bound, not IO-bound or CPU-bound. This means that both a slow computer or a fast computer would take around 10~20 seconds to process an e-mail. Trying to make bits uncopyable is like trying to make water not wet. -- Bruce Schneier By the way, dog_spawn isn't a nickname - it is my name with an underscore instead of a space. -- dog_spawn
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Yep, that is what it says. Don't know if he has noticed there are products that are already out that handle the "Challenge & Response" method he plans to use ;) Ah, that will be his next patent issue! http://news.independent.co.uk/digital/news/story.jsp?story=484520[^] I like his second idea, to enforce payment for spam... Wonder how he figures he will track it in the first place to charge someone ;) Rocky <>< www.HintsAndTips.com
Rocky Moore wrote: Wonder how he figures he will track it in the first place to charge someone Didn't you get the email? He's been offerring for years $300 for each person you forward that email to in order to test email tracking technology. I expect to be a billionaire just as soon as he finishes compiling the results. I sent that email to every one of the hundreds of people who sent it to me; I expect to see my check in the mailbox any day now... Heard in Bullhead City - "You haven't lost your girl -
you've just lost your turn..." [sigh] So true... -
Maybe Bush might start to invade countries that allow spamming. Better reason than non-existsnt Weapons of Mass Destruction. :laugh: Cheers Mike Epprecht, MVP (SQL Server) Johannesburg, South Africa
"First remove the beam from your own eye." A large proportion of the spam I receive emanates from The Home Of The Craven and the Land Of The Fee.