C# Market Penetration for Freeware/Shareware
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I'm curious as to what kind of market penetration C# has achieved in the freeware/shareware/hobby-ware application segment. It seems that virtually everything that you see on sites like Download.com are still written in Visual C++ or VB. Am I wrong about that, or has C# been embraced by developers and users of this classification of applications and utilities?
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I'm curious as to what kind of market penetration C# has achieved in the freeware/shareware/hobby-ware application segment. It seems that virtually everything that you see on sites like Download.com are still written in Visual C++ or VB. Am I wrong about that, or has C# been embraced by developers and users of this classification of applications and utilities?
I'm not too surprised, honestly. I see the same thing. The main reason, I believe (based on feedback and community involvement), is that .NET application require the 20+ MB runtime to be installed in order to run (and sometimes even install if
Installerderivatives are used as Custom Actions in an MSI). For free/shareware, this is too much of a burden on would-be users (after all, why download crap...er, helpful utilities when it requires such a heft download or such large prereq's). Another reason - though this is greatly generalized and is not even based on a stereotype - is that some free/shareware developers aren't what you'd call "up-to-date" and can't find tech jobs, so they use what (little) they know. I might get flamed for this (and remember to those who are considering flaming me that I said some), but after looking at betanews.com every once in a while I see a lot of examples that support what I said (butdon't get me wrong, there are a lot of good programs posted there, including some from Microsoft and other large companies).-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.21 GCS/G/MU d- s: a- C++++ UL@ P++(+++) L+(--) E--- W+++ N++ o+ K? w++++ O- M(+) V? PS-- PE Y++ PGP++ t++@ 5 X+++ R+@ tv+ b(-)>b++ DI++++ D+ G e++>+++ h---* r+++ y+++ -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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I'm curious as to what kind of market penetration C# has achieved in the freeware/shareware/hobby-ware application segment. It seems that virtually everything that you see on sites like Download.com are still written in Visual C++ or VB. Am I wrong about that, or has C# been embraced by developers and users of this classification of applications and utilities?
There are a few examples of that around (SharpReader is a good example of a non-programming-oriented program), but it is true that the size and hassle of downloading the CLR makes it less convenient for the end user. And there is inertia, both in programmers and in their existing code. On the other hand, it's generally much easier to write a windows program in C# than it was in C++.
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There are a few examples of that around (SharpReader is a good example of a non-programming-oriented program), but it is true that the size and hassle of downloading the CLR makes it less convenient for the end user. And there is inertia, both in programmers and in their existing code. On the other hand, it's generally much easier to write a windows program in C# than it was in C++.
Eric Gunnerson (msft) wrote: On the other hand, it's generally much easier to write a windows program in C# than it was in C++. Yeah, that's why I'm surprised more people haven't flocked to C# as the language of choice for hobby-development. I'd guess that given the number of people with broadband these days, most people probably have the CLR installed, don't they?
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I'm not too surprised, honestly. I see the same thing. The main reason, I believe (based on feedback and community involvement), is that .NET application require the 20+ MB runtime to be installed in order to run (and sometimes even install if
Installerderivatives are used as Custom Actions in an MSI). For free/shareware, this is too much of a burden on would-be users (after all, why download crap...er, helpful utilities when it requires such a heft download or such large prereq's). Another reason - though this is greatly generalized and is not even based on a stereotype - is that some free/shareware developers aren't what you'd call "up-to-date" and can't find tech jobs, so they use what (little) they know. I might get flamed for this (and remember to those who are considering flaming me that I said some), but after looking at betanews.com every once in a while I see a lot of examples that support what I said (butdon't get me wrong, there are a lot of good programs posted there, including some from Microsoft and other large companies).-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.21 GCS/G/MU d- s: a- C++++ UL@ P++(+++) L+(--) E--- W+++ N++ o+ K? w++++ O- M(+) V? PS-- PE Y++ PGP++ t++@ 5 X+++ R+@ tv+ b(-)>b++ DI++++ D+ G e++>+++ h---* r+++ y+++ -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Has CP done any polls on how many CP'rs are using C# on actual projects that are intended to go to market? It would be nice to get an idea on how many projects, large cos, one-man shops, etc...
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Has CP done any polls on how many CP'rs are using C# on actual projects that are intended to go to market? It would be nice to get an idea on how many projects, large cos, one-man shops, etc...
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.21 GCS/G/MU d- s: a- C++++ UL@ P++(+++) L+(--) E--- W+++ N++ o+ K? w++++ O- M(+) V? PS-- PE Y++ PGP++ t++@ 5 X+++ R+@ tv+ b(-)>b++ DI++++ D+ G e++>+++ h---* r+++ y+++ -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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There are a few examples of that around (SharpReader is a good example of a non-programming-oriented program), but it is true that the size and hassle of downloading the CLR makes it less convenient for the end user. And there is inertia, both in programmers and in their existing code. On the other hand, it's generally much easier to write a windows program in C# than it was in C++.
I think one thing that is increasing the inertia of ".NET" is that it is becoming more and more of a buzzword for program managers on up in larger corporations that want to move in this "new" direction. My CEO decided on it even before he knew exactly what it was (good thing he hired me to architect it since I had about a year of experience starting with the 1.0 betas). Of course, this is extreme (and extremely stupid) but I see it happening more and more. We do, as you can easily tell, have a .NET application and bootstrapping the CLR has been a problem, especially since the bootstrapper that Wise uses for the MSI product doesn't force the selected runtime (if a newer one is installed, it doesn't bootstrap the .NET installer). When I get time (someday :() it won't be hard writing a new one, but we have had complaints from people trying our software out that the .NET runtime is just too much of a hastle. This is an Internet-deployed smart client, so they have to take the time to download and cache (ala Fusion) our application as well. I do forsee this picking up when Longhorn reaches fruition, but wide-spread adoption of that I'm sure will take time (especially since it requires a much beefier machine). So long as people keep up-to-date with Windows Update (and I know that has been a problem Microsoft has been trying to address and push...and I agree they should), they should have it. Perhaps when more free/shareware developers take note of this they will reconsider.
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.21 GCS/G/MU d- s: a- C++++ UL@ P++(+++) L+(--) E--- W+++ N++ o+ K? w++++ O- M(+) V? PS-- PE Y++ PGP++ t++@ 5 X+++ R+@ tv+ b(-)>b++ DI++++ D+ G e++>+++ h---* r+++ y+++ -----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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I'm curious as to what kind of market penetration C# has achieved in the freeware/shareware/hobby-ware application segment. It seems that virtually everything that you see on sites like Download.com are still written in Visual C++ or VB. Am I wrong about that, or has C# been embraced by developers and users of this classification of applications and utilities?
Allot of the programs on those sites is made for more than Windows. I hardly think saying that these people are not smart enough to figure out yet another new language is what people need to be doing? Just because someone wants to use a language that is not proprietary and make there programs portable does not mean that they know very little. I think that people need to consider the source when reading things like this. Most of the time it comes from people that doesn’t even have a job and if they do it is not much of one considering that he spends all day every day answering peoples questions in this forum. Always bad mouthing people, calling those people names and saying that they are dumb because they don’t jump on Microsoft's next big thing, forget about the fact that they have all this old code that has been written and tested. They call them dumb and out of date in one line and in the next say that not all are like that. Please give me a break. Wouldn't it be better to say that .Net is new and as with anything new, if it's good enough then it will catch on. I done that and didn't call anyone a name or insult there Intelligence, wow that was real hard. Thank You Bo Hunter