%$)$^%))%$$% testers
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We are finally deploying a web app I wrote about a year ago ( the customers fault, and yes, their warranty has expired before they ever used it ). The problem was to do with a change in their business process, which required a change request, and so we go to another round of testing. The tester logged 6 errors, of which 4 were behaviour that was within the spec. I could not replicate the two that remained, so I asked what browser he was using ( the fault logging software allows him to specify this, but he did not ). Firebird 0.8. I'll leave my response to your imagination. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
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We are finally deploying a web app I wrote about a year ago ( the customers fault, and yes, their warranty has expired before they ever used it ). The problem was to do with a change in their business process, which required a change request, and so we go to another round of testing. The tester logged 6 errors, of which 4 were behaviour that was within the spec. I could not replicate the two that remained, so I asked what browser he was using ( the fault logging software allows him to specify this, but he did not ). Firebird 0.8. I'll leave my response to your imagination. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
Been there, done that, spewed half-swallowed coffee on the T-shirt in indignation. My most profound sympathies. Know this; karmic balance require that testers get theirs in the afterlife (his infernal majesty keeps rejecting their test reports).
Software Zen:
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We are finally deploying a web app I wrote about a year ago ( the customers fault, and yes, their warranty has expired before they ever used it ). The problem was to do with a change in their business process, which required a change request, and so we go to another round of testing. The tester logged 6 errors, of which 4 were behaviour that was within the spec. I could not replicate the two that remained, so I asked what browser he was using ( the fault logging software allows him to specify this, but he did not ). Firebird 0.8. I'll leave my response to your imagination. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
I think I would snap and go round and thump the snot out of guy. People like that don't deserve to have a life. Regardz Colin J Davies
*** WARNING *
This could be addictive
**The minion's version of "Catch :bob: "It's a real shame that people as stupid as you can work out how to use a computer. said by Christian Graus in the Soapbox
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We are finally deploying a web app I wrote about a year ago ( the customers fault, and yes, their warranty has expired before they ever used it ). The problem was to do with a change in their business process, which required a change request, and so we go to another round of testing. The tester logged 6 errors, of which 4 were behaviour that was within the spec. I could not replicate the two that remained, so I asked what browser he was using ( the fault logging software allows him to specify this, but he did not ). Firebird 0.8. I'll leave my response to your imagination. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
Maybe I'm dense but what's the problem? Mozilla-based browsers are a perfectly legit test case these days. Unless the spec says the app will work only in IE, in which case never mind. --Mike-- Personal stuff:: Ericahist | Homepage Shareware stuff:: 1ClickPicGrabber | RightClick-Encrypt CP stuff:: CP SearchBar v2.0.2 | C++ Forum FAQ You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert unless you've read it in the original Klingon.
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We are finally deploying a web app I wrote about a year ago ( the customers fault, and yes, their warranty has expired before they ever used it ). The problem was to do with a change in their business process, which required a change request, and so we go to another round of testing. The tester logged 6 errors, of which 4 were behaviour that was within the spec. I could not replicate the two that remained, so I asked what browser he was using ( the fault logging software allows him to specify this, but he did not ). Firebird 0.8. I'll leave my response to your imagination. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
Mozilla 1.6 got 1 million downloads on the first 20 days. Firebird 0.8 got 1 million downloads on the first 12 days. All of this only from Mozilla foundation, they are not counting mirrors. While not the major browser, Mozilla is not a thing you can ignore anymore if you do serious coding. Perl combines all the worst aspects of C and Lisp: a billion different sublanguages in one monolithic executable. It combines the power of C with the readability of PostScript. -- Jamie Zawinski
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We are finally deploying a web app I wrote about a year ago ( the customers fault, and yes, their warranty has expired before they ever used it ). The problem was to do with a change in their business process, which required a change request, and so we go to another round of testing. The tester logged 6 errors, of which 4 were behaviour that was within the spec. I could not replicate the two that remained, so I asked what browser he was using ( the fault logging software allows him to specify this, but he did not ). Firebird 0.8. I'll leave my response to your imagination. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
:laugh::laugh::laugh: Reminds me a bit of a test station I delivered to F.E.Warren AFB. We got a call that it was failing badly after we validated it. We tracked down the Boeing engineer that designed it and sent her up there to observe the problems reported. It turned out that the system worked perfectly, if the techs followed the manual they were required to use by regulation. They had been trying to wing it without using the proper procedure. There is a reason for specs, and that's all too often forgotten. I rather doubt that your contract specs included compatibility with an obscure browser that only 17 people in the world use.:sigh: Heard in Bullhead City - "You haven't lost your girl -
you've just lost your turn..." [sigh] So true... -
Maybe I'm dense but what's the problem? Mozilla-based browsers are a perfectly legit test case these days. Unless the spec says the app will work only in IE, in which case never mind. --Mike-- Personal stuff:: Ericahist | Homepage Shareware stuff:: 1ClickPicGrabber | RightClick-Encrypt CP stuff:: CP SearchBar v2.0.2 | C++ Forum FAQ You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert unless you've read it in the original Klingon.
Michael Dunn wrote: Unless the spec says the app will work only in IE As an Opera user, I totally agree, as an addition the spec would need to say which version of IE it works on!
"There is no monument dedicated to the memory of a committee." - Lester J. Pourciau
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:laugh::laugh::laugh: Reminds me a bit of a test station I delivered to F.E.Warren AFB. We got a call that it was failing badly after we validated it. We tracked down the Boeing engineer that designed it and sent her up there to observe the problems reported. It turned out that the system worked perfectly, if the techs followed the manual they were required to use by regulation. They had been trying to wing it without using the proper procedure. There is a reason for specs, and that's all too often forgotten. I rather doubt that your contract specs included compatibility with an obscure browser that only 17 people in the world use.:sigh: Heard in Bullhead City - "You haven't lost your girl -
you've just lost your turn..." [sigh] So true...I can't imagine that anyone who has used Firebird/Foxfire would stay with IE. Certainly all the early adopters have already moved, and the general public is going to be close behind. I can't think of a single advantage to IE, and there are a lot of disadvantages. If your web app is for a closed universe of people then IE specific code is OK, but if it is for the general public you are really being stupid to not code for Mozilla.
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I can't imagine that anyone who has used Firebird/Foxfire would stay with IE. Certainly all the early adopters have already moved, and the general public is going to be close behind. I can't think of a single advantage to IE, and there are a lot of disadvantages. If your web app is for a closed universe of people then IE specific code is OK, but if it is for the general public you are really being stupid to not code for Mozilla.
Jim Howard wrote: if it is for the general public you are really being stupid to not code for Mozilla. I've never seen a PC with Mozilla installed, nor met a user anywhere except here who's heard of it. I prefer to code for compliance with the HTML and CSS standards and let the browser providers worry about making their products work properly. If there's any tweaking to be done, it should be to optimize performance for the most common browser in use, not obscure specialty products that a few power users (aka geeks) know about. There is much discussion here about the merits (or lack of them) of various browsers, but we are not a community of 'average' users. The vast majority of people use whatever came installed on their PCs, and that is IE in some form for most. Heard in Bullhead City - "You haven't lost your girl -
you've just lost your turn..." [sigh] So true... -
Jim Howard wrote: if it is for the general public you are really being stupid to not code for Mozilla. I've never seen a PC with Mozilla installed, nor met a user anywhere except here who's heard of it. I prefer to code for compliance with the HTML and CSS standards and let the browser providers worry about making their products work properly. If there's any tweaking to be done, it should be to optimize performance for the most common browser in use, not obscure specialty products that a few power users (aka geeks) know about. There is much discussion here about the merits (or lack of them) of various browsers, but we are not a community of 'average' users. The vast majority of people use whatever came installed on their PCs, and that is IE in some form for most. Heard in Bullhead City - "You haven't lost your girl -
you've just lost your turn..." [sigh] So true..."I prefer to code for compliance with the HTML and CSS standards and let the browser providers worry about making their products work properly. " Nothing wrong with that, except that IE is probably the worst possible test case to use to achive that goal. If you only test on IE then there is no way to know if you in fact "code for compliance". As far as never having heard of Mozilla, Firebird, or Foxfire, that just shows you live in a pretty sheltered world. Your customers are in a larger world. If you test only on IE then you are going to drive van ever increasing number of them away from your site.
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Michael Dunn wrote: Unless the spec says the app will work only in IE As an Opera user, I totally agree, as an addition the spec would need to say which version of IE it works on!
"There is no monument dedicated to the memory of a committee." - Lester J. Pourciau
Ted Ferenc wrote: As an Opera user You're the one !!!! Ted Ferenc wrote: as an addition the spec would need to say which version of IE it works on! Yes, it does. I forget, exactly. IE4, I think. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
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Maybe I'm dense but what's the problem? Mozilla-based browsers are a perfectly legit test case these days. Unless the spec says the app will work only in IE, in which case never mind. --Mike-- Personal stuff:: Ericahist | Homepage Shareware stuff:: 1ClickPicGrabber | RightClick-Encrypt CP stuff:: CP SearchBar v2.0.2 | C++ Forum FAQ You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert unless you've read it in the original Klingon.
The spec says that it must work with specific versions of IE and Netscape. The problem is twofold: 1. I don't give a crap how apparently compatible with Netscape Firebird is, if you want to tell me it doesn't work with Netscape, test with Netscape. 2. A tester should tell me what browser they are using, or I will assume IE. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
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Mozilla 1.6 got 1 million downloads on the first 20 days. Firebird 0.8 got 1 million downloads on the first 12 days. All of this only from Mozilla foundation, they are not counting mirrors. While not the major browser, Mozilla is not a thing you can ignore anymore if you do serious coding. Perl combines all the worst aspects of C and Lisp: a billion different sublanguages in one monolithic executable. It combines the power of C with the readability of PostScript. -- Jamie Zawinski
All the people who voted this five are obviously nerd enough to download it. I probably am myself, except that I don't look at browsers that I don't develop for, in case installing them effects the browsers I DO develop for. I guarentee you that no person buying a fishing licence online is going to do so with Firebird, and if they are, then it's the customers fault for not including Firebird in the spec. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
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:laugh::laugh::laugh: Reminds me a bit of a test station I delivered to F.E.Warren AFB. We got a call that it was failing badly after we validated it. We tracked down the Boeing engineer that designed it and sent her up there to observe the problems reported. It turned out that the system worked perfectly, if the techs followed the manual they were required to use by regulation. They had been trying to wing it without using the proper procedure. There is a reason for specs, and that's all too often forgotten. I rather doubt that your contract specs included compatibility with an obscure browser that only 17 people in the world use.:sigh: Heard in Bullhead City - "You haven't lost your girl -
you've just lost your turn..." [sigh] So true...Roger Wright wrote: I rather doubt that your contract specs included compatibility with an obscure browser that only 17 people in the world use. ROTFL. You're right, browser compatibility was in the spec, and it did not include Firebird, or Opera. Sadly, people who use those browsers need to assume they run EXACTLY the same as IE, or at least Netscape, or they will find pages online they cannot properly use. And if all you're expecting is the same as something else, why not write a plug in for IE if you want to change the UI in some way ? Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
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"I prefer to code for compliance with the HTML and CSS standards and let the browser providers worry about making their products work properly. " Nothing wrong with that, except that IE is probably the worst possible test case to use to achive that goal. If you only test on IE then there is no way to know if you in fact "code for compliance". As far as never having heard of Mozilla, Firebird, or Foxfire, that just shows you live in a pretty sheltered world. Your customers are in a larger world. If you test only on IE then you are going to drive van ever increasing number of them away from your site.
Jim Howard wrote: Your customers are in a larger world. If you test only on IE then you are going to drive van ever increasing number of them away from your site. It seems to me that Mozilla users live in a dream world. Each persons customers are in part defined by the sort of app they are writing. Unless the site in question is likely to draw a lot of geeks, I'd say that the vast majority of Windows users are too scared to mess with what comes out of the box, and completely uninclined to do so in any case. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
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Ted Ferenc wrote: As an Opera user You're the one !!!! Ted Ferenc wrote: as an addition the spec would need to say which version of IE it works on! Yes, it does. I forget, exactly. IE4, I think. Christian I have drunk the cool-aid and found it wan and bitter. - Chris Maunder
Christian Graus wrote: You're the one !!!! Yes;P, I live in hope of it running for at least a day without crashing, but it is STILL better than IE! I hope your customer is not like me, and installs IE4 to check out your code, unless of course you used IE4!!
"There is no monument dedicated to the memory of a committee." - Lester J. Pourciau